Why the king james?

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eph610

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I'm not sure where you received that divine inspiration, but I believe that concepts and principles are more important than the actual WORD used.

Like someone mentioned earlier, you can use several different words to get across the same message...
Stop walking...
Quit walking...
Walk no more...
Cease your walking...

Your insistence that the KJV is somehow "ordained" by God is ludicrous.

You are worshipping at the altar of the KJV... a book.. instead of thanking God that His words have been made available to people of all languages and education levels.

I propose to you that a semi-illiterate person, trying to read the KJV today, would likely NOT understand the gospel, and would NOT be moved to repent. They simply couldn't understand the archaic terminology.

If they were to read a thought-for-thought translation, in the current vernacular, the likelihood of understanding and a change of heart are exponentially higher. And that's what we are to be about...telling others the good news.
In our ministry, we encounter many that dropped out of High school or even middle school.

Most if not all those who are called to preach and teach the word to people are taught to preach and teach at a 6th grade reading and comprehension level, because that is the average grade level that ALL people will understand a teaching or message. It is also why Jesus used parabolic teaching methods.

As you stated many are unable to understand the KJV and the above 2 reasons are why I teach, preach and my first version of choice for ministry is the NASB. I do compare things with the KJV, but it is not my sole source.

We also find that the Psalms and Proverbs are made more meaningful to folks in different versions.

We have found when someone asks us which version they should get, we continue to reply with....

The one you will read and keep reading!!!!
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
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In other words man (you) are the final authority on what God has said. It all comes down to final authority of God's word. If you don't like the way this version says it, then you'll go with another one. etc..

The same Scripture you're trusting to be right about your salvation, don't you want it to be right, every word, about every thing else? It's more than just a message of salvation. It's...what is truth?
No my friend, God has the final say.

Have you ever read a scripture passage today and found that it has a different message for you than it had yesterday? If you haven't, when you read a passage of scripture, get down on your knees and ask God to reveal the scripture's message to you. If you pay attention to the Holy Spirit, you will get your answer.

If you love the KJV, use it. Study it. Humble yourself and pray on each scripture passage that you read. The Holy Spirit will guide you to the meaning of that passage to your life. I pray that while you are studying, you will also study the actual Old English that it is written in.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Words are important to God.

He breathed them in Hebrew and in Greek.

It's a simple question i'll ask again, since you are so fond of repeating your own tired argument, let's go around and around once more. We know how this game is played: my question answers your question, but you don't answer my question.

Korea opens up to missionaries. There is a great need for the Bible translated into Korean. How do we proceed?
Do we get out the 1611 KJV and an Elizabethan English to Modern Korean dictionary?
Or do we instead go to the best Greek and Hebrew copies of the original autographs that scholarship can piece together, and translate these into Korean as it is currently spoken?
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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No my friend, God has the final say.

Have you ever read a scripture passage today and found that it has a different message for you than it had yesterday? If you haven't, when you read a passage of scripture, get down on your knees and ask God to reveal the scripture's message to you. If you pay attention to the Holy Spirit, you will get your answer.

If you love the KJV, use it. Study it. Humble yourself and pray on each scripture passage that you read. The Holy Spirit will guide you to the meaning of that passage to your life. I pray that while you are studying, you will also study the actual Old English that it is written in.
Are you justified by he faith of Christ or faith in Christ? Big difference in words. Words matter. Faith in Christ refers to the individual's faith. The faith of Christ refers to Christ's faith. I am justified by the faith of Christ. Christ's faith never waivers. All the new versions use faith in Christ not faith of Christ. That changes the doctrine of justification altogether. Again, words matter to God, not just the meaning.

Btw, the preaching of the cross is simple. One needs not to understand Scripture to understand the message of the cross. But for the believer who desires the meat of the word, then words matter.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Hi @author i see you lurking -- and this actually delights me, to see that even though yesterday you wanted to throw in the towel, you find yourself still among us today!! :)

Capture.JPG

we're going to be stuck with each other for eternity in Christ, so we ought to start figuring out how to get along with each other today, i like to say.;)

honestly, i posted harshly to you earlier in order to spur you to remain, and i hope you'll forgive me for that.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Are you justified by he faith of Christ or faith in Christ? Big difference in words.

what is '
faith in Christ' but faith in Christ's own faithfulness?

look -- if God opens these things up to you, slight variations in the translation of the original God-breathed words into our common language are not going to lead you to false doctrine. the One who made the eye causes it to see, but would you belittle His ability to do so??

No matter how clear and precise the verbiage is, we know that without that the Lord removes the veil, no one can perceive the Kingdom. so if you act like ye olde English is the only way anyone can comprehend the gospel, and you don't even speak using those archaic words yourself, what does that make you, if not a hypocrite?

 
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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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what is '
faith in Christ' but faith in Christ's own faithfulness?

look -- if God opens these things up to you, slight variations in the translation of the original God-breathed words into our common language are not going to lead you to false doctrine. the One who made the eye causes it to see, but would you belittle His ability to do so??

No matter how clear and precise the verbiage is, we know that without that the Lord removes the veil, no one can perceive the Kingdom. so quit acting like ye olde English is the only way anyone can comprehend the gospel! you don't even speak using those archaic words yourself, so what does that make you, if not a hypocrite?

Look up 2 Samuel 21:19 in your new versions and answer the question who killed Goliath?
 
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being "
too passionate to control your tongue" doesn't seem like a good reason to back out of talking to anyone, as pretty as you might paint it.

The scripture doesn't teach us to "
be true to ourselves"

It teaches us to deny ourselves, and subjugate ourselves to His will, to beat our bodies and make them our slaves -- including our tongues -- and to daily mortify the deeds of the flesh, having died to these things in our immersion into Christ.
To love the rebuke of the wise and cherish the chastening of the Lord, not to flee from it because listening to it would mean "
not being true to yourself"

You know what's really interesting is that the scripture teaches this in every translation not just the deal ol' KJV.


But if you want the legacy of your short time here to be "
i couldn't control my tongue or my 'passion' so when i was rebuked for it, i cut and run, because being myself is more important than being a member of the body of Christ & being conformed into His image" . . .
Then so be it.

Pretending that that gives anyone but yourself pleasure?
i won't allow you that deception though. You breaking fellowship because your tongue is sharp & your vanity is uncontrolled gives no one delight.
I had no intention of return to this forum, but your opinions deserve acknowledgement. First, I will surprise you by agreeing with everything you said and you have every right to be acknowledged. Is what you wrote going to change me? Absolutely not. I have faced it all before and it is still water off a ducks back. Even though we stand on opposite sides of the river, my age gives me some advantage by growing up in a God- loving environment with God loving parents and a God loving country, not that I am assuming you did not have God loving parents, but unfortunately, you did not grow up in a God loving country. Am I passionate and hard nosed, you bet. Do I fear God's judgement? You bet. If you don't, maybe you should. If I was weak in my faith your judgement of me would leave me shaking in my boots. Am I arrogant and and vane? you bet.
Before I close, let me be very direct, I spent 22 years of my life defending this country that I love,and I am sick at heart to observe what is happening to it, so let me give you another arrogant opinion. America is a dying country because it has turned it's back on God and the worse is yet to come. You need to educate yourself to reality. If you had any knowledge of the true history of this country, which I doubt, it would be clear that God willed this country into existence and there is no way He is going to allow us the get away for spiting in his face. Now if that bruises your sensibility, deal with it. The vast majority of Americans are obsessed with sports, cell phones, TV and many other things to distract them from the reality of life. Until Americans, all Americans, replace Email with Knee Mail and get on our knees and beg God for His forgiveness, America is doomed. You chastised me for cutting and running, I have not run anywhere I have nothing to run from, I have enjoyed the short time I have been part of this forum but it would be inconsiderate of me to continue bringing discourse to this forum. At any rate, I have a life other than this forum
I am deeply saddened that my children and grandchildren, and even you, will not have the privilege of living in a country when seventy five percent of Americans were Christian and I do not mean Milquetoast Christians. God created America as a shining light to the rest of the world, but now that God is being kicked out of America, the light has gone out. It would be more of a benefit to you if you would concentrate on that fact. Allow me to take advantage of my age and enlighten you. Keep in mind the theme of this subject is the KGV and my effort to defend it.

In 1849, a young chubby English boy named Charles Spurgeon was walking home from school,
when God created a rain shower that forced him to take shelter inside a church and that changed his life, and millions others. Spurgeon became the most prolific Christian Author and successful Preacher in modern history. He died before any modern bibles existed.
In 1875, a young boy, raised in an orphanage, was approaching the age when he had to leave the orphanage. He had very little going for him until God blessed him with the ability to become a great baseball player. There came a time when God required payback and removed the baseball from his hand, and replaced it with a bible. Before he died in 1935, Billy Sunday traveled around America preaching the gospel to over a million people and that was before television. Sunday was considered a fire and brimstone preacher and was very effective in a God loving environment. The bible he delighted in waving above his head was KJV. It may be a befit to you to study the life of these gentlemen, especially Billy Sunday who used his arrogance, condescending attitude and passion to keep over a million souls out of hell.
America was not founded and expanded by intellectuals, but by mostly uneducated God fearing Christians with the blessings and guidance of God. Unfortunately, the majority of this generation of young people and even too many older people with the attitude, Who cares!

I am sure you are asking what this has to do with anything, it has everything to do with it. to set things strait, I am no wimp, but it is no problem for me to ignore your criticism considering your immaturity.

Someday, we are going to stand before the Ultimate Judge and it is Him that I and everyone that has lived must answer too. Today, too many church pulpits are occupied by millionaire preachers giving out feel good messages and evidently that is what many if not most, people want and many of them will still be out there after the Rapture, which is coming soon. Hmm, I just made a judgement, imagine that!


For many are called, but few are chosen.
Matthew 22:14 (KJV)

I will close with the following plea for all of us.

God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luke 18:13 (KJV)
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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Look up 2 Samuel 21:19 in your new versions and answer the question who killed Goliath?
That passage does not tell you who killed Goliath. It tells you who killed Goliath's brother. This is from the heretical NLT.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]During another battle at Gob, Elhanan son of Jair[SUP][f][/SUP] from Bethlehem killed the brother of Goliath of Gath.[SUP][g][/SUP] The handle of his spear was as thick as a weaver’s beam!
So, what have we proven with this? What new heresies have we uncovered?
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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I am sure you are asking what this has to do with anything, it has everything to do with it. to set things strait, I am no wimp, but it is no problem for me to ignore your criticism considering your immaturity.
You are not the only one that has those sentiments about our nation.... MOST of us here, both young and old have seen the deterioration of the values of our nation.

This should not change our faith and beliefs, but perhaps should cause a feeling of sadness that our once great nation is being destroyed from within.

However, there is not much WE can do about it, aside from doing all we can to change our little corner of it.. to the best of our ability, as the Spirit guides us.

It sounds as if you would fit in well here, as long as you don't try to convince everyone that the KJV is the only "approved" version.... we're all in this together, brother, and if we don't learn to love and accept each other now, while times are easy, what in the world are we going to do when times get really hard?
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
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Look up 2 Samuel 21:19 in your new versions and answer the question who killed Goliath?
2 Samuel 21:19 And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob; and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Beth-lehemite slew Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam. ESV

Not Goliath the Philistine. Both say the same thing.
 
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You are not the only one that has those sentiments about our nation.... MOST of us here, both young and old have seen the deterioration of the values of our nation.

This should not change our faith and beliefs, but perhaps should cause a feeling of sadness that our once great nation is being destroyed from within.

However, there is not much WE can do about it, aside from doing all we can to change our little corner of it.. to the best of our ability, as the Spirit guides us.

It sounds as if you would fit in well here, as long as you don't try to convince everyone that the KJV is the only "approved" version.... we're all in this together, brother, and if we don't learn to love and accept each other now, while times are easy, what in the world are we going to do when times get really hard?
.

If I can manage to harness my passion in defending my beliefs perhaps I could fit in, but if will require a lot of prayer to accomplish that. I suppose it is the secularization of this country that has been going on for fifty years that really lights me up and makes me suspicious of people.As I remarked, until we Christians get on our knees and partition God to save our country, why should He. I am a poor lost sinner like everyone else, but at least we Christians have a place of refuge in the Lord Jesus Christ and I wish everyone did. I have said all I wanted to say about the KJV. it is my preferred bible and I never intended to try to force anyone else to accept it, but it must have appeared that way.
Your kind words are well received and it gives me something to think and pray about. Thank you
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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2 Samuel 21:19 And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob; and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Beth-lehemite slew Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam. ESV

Not Goliath the Philistine. Both say the same thing.
KJV - And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.

NASB - There was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.

ESV - And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite, struck down Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.

Same passage in 1 Chronicles 20:5KJV - And there was war again with the Philistines; and Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff was like a weaver's beam.

NASB - And there was war with the Philistines again, and Elhanan the son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.

ESV - And there was again war with the Philistines, and Elhanan the son of Jair struck down Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.

The new versions contradict themselves on who killed Goliath or the brother of Goliath. Can you trust a so called Bible that does not contain 100% truth? The world is looking for truth. We need to give it to them. The whole truth.
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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...Can you trust a so called Bible that does not contain 100% truth? The world is looking for truth. We need to give it to them. The whole truth.
Another canard. The KJV has been shown to be incorrect in several places. You have read the evidence; it's been presented in this thread and in similar previous threads. You flatly refuse to accept that the KJV is wrong on any point. You are intellectually inconsistent (if not dishonest), and continue to throw out variations on this canard as though it has value. In the face of the evidence, your argument has failed.
 

John146

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Another canard. The KJV has been shown to be incorrect in several places. You have read the evidence; it's been presented in this thread and in similar previous threads. You flatly refuse to accept that the KJV is wrong on any point. You are intellectually inconsistent (if not dishonest), and continue to throw out variations on this canard as though it has value. In the face of the evidence, your argument has failed.
Opinions have been shown, I posted the actual contradictions in the new versions based on the perverted Wescott and Hort manuscripts. It's no secret their perversion.
 

Dino246

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Opinions have been shown, I posted the actual contradictions in the new versions based on the perverted Wescott and Hort manuscripts. It's no secret their perversion.
This is about the lamest response I have seen. You have bundled every contested passage into "perverted Wescott and Hort manuscripts". You have attempted to deflect the truth by waving an irrelevant flag. It won't work. Try 'Red Sea' vs 'sea of reeds'; the KJV is simply... wrong. Because it is not completely (100%) accurate, your argument completely fails.

You still have not responded to my earlier question regarding which version or revision of the KJV is the correct one. You have not responded to the statement that the 1611 KJV had marginal notes, some of which are alternate wordings, the presence of which destroys your argument. You ignore the Preface to the Reader from the 1611 version which completely undermines your position. You're flailing, repeating the same tired, oft-refuted claims. I shake my head.
 

hornetguy

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Which he will never admit to, because it would destroy his "bedrock" of faith.... in the KJV. If he were to ever admit there was a mistake in it, he would lose his faith.

Reminds me of the kids song about the house upon the sand....
 
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Which he will never admit to, because it would destroy his "bedrock" of faith.... in the KJV. If he were to ever admit there was a mistake in it, he would lose his faith.
It is a wicked generation that seeks a sign, instead of relying on their faith. In the case of KJVonlyites, the sign they seek is evidence that God has consecrated an English version of the Bible that is without error in order to propagate his true doctrine without error. And so when someone trots out the "Easter" of Acts 12:4 they do the Hokey Pokey.
 

John146

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This is about the lamest response I have seen. You have bundled every contested passage into "perverted Wescott and Hort manuscripts". You have attempted to deflect the truth by waving an irrelevant flag. It won't work. Try 'Red Sea' vs 'sea of reeds'; the KJV is simply... wrong. Because it is not completely (100%) accurate, your argument completely fails.

You still have not responded to my earlier question regarding which version or revision of the KJV is the correct one. You have not responded to the statement that the 1611 KJV had marginal notes, some of which are alternate wordings, the presence of which destroys your argument. You ignore the Preface to the Reader from the 1611 version which completely undermines your position. You're flailing, repeating the same tired, oft-refuted claims. I shake my head.
This is a common attack on the King James Only position is the so called "revisions" in the King James Bible. These "revisions" of the King James text were not like the changes that the new versions make in the Bible. The corrupt new versions make changes that omit words, phrases and complete verses. They also corrupt the deity of Jesus Christ, the virgin birth and many other important doctrines. The changes in the King James Bible were merely to correct things such as standardized spelling and typographical errors. The context of the King James Bible has never once been changed.

Since 1611, there have been standardized spelling changes in the King James Bible. In the early editions of the KJB, words like "bear," "dark" and "fear" had the letter "e" on end of them. Words like "mooued," "bee" and "mee" were changed into "moved," "be" and "me." These changes made no change in the context or in any doctrine.

There were also changes because of typographical errors. These errors were hardly avoidable because the printing press in the 1600's were set manually, not like the technological printers of the present day. The work of printing books in the 1400's to 1600's was done by a very slow process. Each individual letter of a certain word was to be placed in the printing press by hand, each letter being upside down and backwards, so printing errors were expected. It was an extreme and weary task to complete the hundreds of thousands of letters in the KJB in a specified time limit. If we today, having things such as Microsoft Word and Spell Check (which are still prone to make errors in writing articles and books), then imagine how hard it was back then.

The King James Bible was first printed in Gothic type, but later changed to Roman type. In the Gothic type text, the letter "s" looked like the letter "f", the letter "u" looked like the letter "v" and the letter "j" looked like the letter "i". Again this did not change the context any at all.

Whenever a Bible Corrector like yourself brings up the "revisions" of the King James Bible, it is just an attempt to make one think that the King James Bible contained errors that corrupted doctrines, but nothing is farther from the truth. There were no "revisions" in the KJB, only editions that corrected simple things that had no effect on the context. The underlying Hebrew and Greek texts of the KJB have never changed in over 400 years. Even the American Bible Society (certainly no friend of the KJB) said this about the "revisions" of the KJB, "The English Bible, as left by the translators (of 1611), has come down to us unaltered in respect to its text. With the exception of typographical errors and changes required by the progress of orthography in the English language, the text of our present Bibles remains unchanged, and without variation from the original copy as left by the translators".

The "revision" argument is quite silly because even Greek texts such as the Textus Receptus (TR) went through many editions. There are several editions of the Erasmus TR, Stephanus TR, Beza TR, Colinaeus TR, Scrivener TR and Elzevirs TR (Keep in mind that the King James translators did not only use one Textus Receptus for the New Testament. They used various manuscripts in line with the Byzantine texts. God led the translators in their translating and also led them in using the correct manuscripts). All published books go through numerous revisions. The "revision" issue is a non-issue.

Psalms 12:6 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

The above passage tells us that God put His words through a purification process. This was done with languages, manuscripts, bibles and you guessed it, editions of the King James Bible.

Imagine if someone had a piece of silver that had elements in it such as copper, zinc, iron, tin, antimony and arsenic in it. The piece of silver was then purified by using hot water, soda and aluminum. Does this mean the piece of silver is not pure? Of course not, because it has been purified. The same goes for the King James Bible that we can hold in our hands today. There were simple printing errors in it, but it went through a purification process and was purified.

Today we have the pure words of God in the King James Bible and we can trust every word inside. You only raise up such arguments because you do not want to give up final authority. What most people today like is to be like the early day Roman Catholic Church and hide the words of God, so they can interpret the Bible for themselves and tell the "common man" what God actually means.
 

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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Opinions have been shown, I posted the actual contradictions in the new versions based on the perverted Wescott and Hort manuscripts. It's no secret their perversion.
"Then sent Joseph, and called his father Jacob to him, and all his kindred, threescore and fifteen (75) souls."
(Acts 7:14)

"...all the souls of the house of Jacob, which came into Egypt, were threescore and ​ten (70)"
(Genesis 46:27)


This is not an opinion, this is factual error. And there are many others like this.

But you will not accept that, because your faith in KJV is rooted deeply.