Verse for "once saved always saved"?

[Chester]

So am I correct in my understanding that most people in this thread believe in security of salvation?

Hard to answer your question: "security of salvation" is something very different than "once saved always saved".

I personally believe and have "security of salvation", and am unwilling to compromise my "security of salvation" by believing in "once saved always saved" -- unless someone can show a clear verse for OSAS?

 

[notuptome]

Hard to answer your question: "security of salvation" is something very different than "once saved always saved".

I personally believe and have "security of salvation", and am unwilling to compromise my "security of salvation" by believing in "once saved always saved" -- unless someone can show a clear verse for OSAS?

Actually it's not any different.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Grandpa]

Hard to answer your question: "security of salvation" is something very different than "once saved always saved".

I personally believe and have "security of salvation", and am unwilling to compromise my "security of salvation" by believing in "once saved always saved" -- unless someone can show a clear verse for OSAS?

How can you have security of salvation if you don't believe that Salvation is from God?

If Salvation is from God how can it be taken away?



Is Salvation a gift from God?
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

 

[ZacharyB]

I have not yet had anyone show me a verse that clearly says "once saved, always saved?"

There are a few that clearly say it.
And there are 100 more that just suggest it.

IMO, God had the NT writers hold back for the sake of the baby Christians.
Not a very uplifting, positive, encouraging, optimistic, etc. topic.
Especially for the babes slurping their milk ... on the way to the meat (hopefully).

 

[Chester]

There are a few that clearly say it.
And there are 100 more that just suggest it.

IMO, God had the NT writers hold back for the sake of the baby Christians.
Not a very uplifting, positive, encouraging, optimistic, etc. topic.
Especially for the babes slurping their milk ... on the way to the meat (hopefully).

Interesting . . . . . I see . . . (and I hope I am not blind, and just think I see . . .)

So, which verse clearly says "once saved always saved"?

 

[Talishi]

Despite years of Bible study and talking to many people, I have not yet had anyone show me a verse that clearly says "once saved, always saved?" Is there such a verse in the Bible, or is the doctrine of eternal security a conclusion from study of Scriptural themes and principles?

If there is such a verse in the Bible, there's a problem, because I can find verses which teach the opposite. The clearest one is of course Romans 11:22: Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 

[Chester]

How can you have security of salvation if you don't believe that Salvation is from God?

If Salvation is from God how can it be taken away?




Is Salvation a gift from God?
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Salvation is from God who grants it to those who are believing in Him.

 

[Grandpa]

Salvation is from God who grants it to those who are believing in Him.

So if you stop believing in God then He will withdraw salvation?

Sounds reasonable, right?

But how do you believe in something and then stop? How do you change your mind?

You believe in gravity, I assume. If you stopped believing in gravity would it cease to exist? How would you be able to believe in gravity at one time and then not believe it later on?

Unless you were double minded the whole time. Not 100% believing in gravity but waiting for the time when it was disproved...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So if you stop believing in God then He will withdraw salvation?

Sounds reasonable, right?

But how do you believe in something and then stop? How do you change your mind?

You believe in gravity, I assume. If you stopped believing in gravity would it cease to exist? How would you be able to believe in gravity at one time and then not believe it later on?

Unless you were double minded the whole time. Not 100% believing in gravity but waiting for the time when it was disproved...

thus begs the question, If you did not believe, but was skeptical.. Did you have faith at all. And if you believed but did not have true faith, were you even saved

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If there is such a verse in the Bible, there's a problem, because I can find verses which teach the opposite. The clearest one is of course Romans 11:22: Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Context does not allow this. Paul is talking about the gentiles, where were grafted into a tree which was naturally jewish.. While the jews, (because of unbelief) were cut off.. And he wants us,, We should not be wise in our opinion. else we may be cut off, and they grafted back in..

In which case they will, When all Israel is saved.

It has nothign to do with anyone individual salvation.

 

[Jimbone]

You do not get saved over night and conformed into the full image of Christ, so that you can pretty much walk into eternity. I don't think so.

Getting saved is a process. It's the dismantling of the natural mind, so that Christ may grow within the soul.

"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers." Rom 8:29

I disagree, I was radically changed overnight without a doubt. One day all I wanted was to die and wasn't sure I even believed a God even existed at all, the next day I was made new and KNEW I had been reborn, KNEW it was from God, and KNEW it was through Jesus Christ. Now since that day 3 years ago 9-29-13 it has absolutely been a process, but I disagree that I wasn't saved overnight, I was saved and changed, dropped viewing porn overnight, stopped playing video games after a lifelong obsession overnight, other things have been more gradual, but you can be radically saved overnight, even after 5 years of saying I was a Christian without knowing Him at all. As far as the OP goes I could never imagine turning from what God freely gave me, yet I do feel I still have the freedom and choice to. That's why this is such a hard subject for me personally.

 

[eph610]

So if you stop believing in God then He will withdraw salvation?

Sounds reasonable, right?

But how do you believe in something and then stop? How do you change your mind?

You believe in gravity, I assume. If you stopped believing in gravity would it cease to exist? How would you be able to believe in gravity at one time and then not believe it later on?

Unless you were double minded the whole time. Not 100% believing in gravity but waiting for the time when it was disproved...

I do not believe we lose our salvation like a set of car keys and then find it again after looking for the lost car keys. He did not walk away from you because you failed to study the Word and pray one morning.

I do not believe in rigid OSAS/eternal security either, because that eradicates choice and suggests God has total domination over a persons will, which he does not.

I believe a person can be saved and through the course of time harden their hearts that they fall away from the faith and in doing so blaspheme the Holy Spirit. IOW, God is still there, but you walked away from God.

The story of Charles Templeton bears this out. It is well know that his walk with Christ was legendary, he was the Canadian version of Billy Graham and him and Graham were very close friends.

Templeton was tempted and led astray from his faith due to Theistic Evolutionists while he was enrolled at Princeton Theological Seminary. Late in his life he wrote a book: Farewell to God: My Reasons for Rejecting the Christian Faith.

In the book and his personal quotes Templeton stated that Creation as presented in the Bible was a fairy tale and the second he attributed creation at the hands of anything but God and the Holy Spirit, he was condemned eternally for Blaspheming the Holy Spirit[which is attributing his works to that of the Devil]

But you say, Templeton never said outright the devil created the earth, you would be right, but evolution at its core seeks to eradicate Jesus Christ. If you remove man being created from God, you remove the fall, if you remove the fall, you remove the need for Jesus Christ and you replace him with man's pride and knowledge.

So by embracing a doctrine of devils, Templeton walked away from his faith and his connection with God and will not be forgiven for the sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Even the occultists know this and why any Christian that walks away from Jesus Christ and joins certain satanic groups must go through the rite of Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

But you say if he walked away from us , he was never really one of us....that dog won't hunt, because of the fruit that Templeton bore while serving Jesus Christ.

This is the most severe form of walking away from salvation. Those that abide in the vine abide for good. It takes a long time to walk away and then blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not believe we lose our salvation like a set of car keys and then find it again after looking for the lost car keys. He did not walk away from you because you failed to study the Word and pray one morning.

I do not believe in rigid OSAS/eternal security either, because that eradicates choice and suggests God has total domination over a persons will, which he does not.

I believe a person can be saved and through the course of time harden their hearts that they fall away from the faith and in doing so blaspheme the Holy Spirit. IOW, God is still there, but you walked away from God.

The story of Charles Templeton bears this out. It is well know that his walk with Christ was legendary, he was the Canadian version of Billy Graham and him and Graham were very close friends.

Templeton was tempted and led astray from his faith due to Theistic Evolutionists while he was enrolled at Princeton Theological Seminary. Late in his life he wrote a book: Farewell to God: My Reasons for Rejecting the Christian Faith.

In the book and his personal quotes Templeton stated that Creation as presented in the Bible was a fairy tale and the second he attributed creation at the hands of anything but God and the Holy Spirit, he was condemned eternally for Blaspheming the Holy Spirit[which is attributing his works to that of the Devil]

But you say, Templeton never said outright the devil created the earth, you would be right, but evolution at its core seeks to eradicate Jesus Christ. If you remove man being created from God, you remove the fall, if you remove the fall, you remove the need for Jesus Christ and you replace him with man's pride and knowledge.

So by embracing a doctrine of devils, Templeton walked away from his faith and his connection with God and will not be forgiven for the sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Even the occultists know this and why any Christian that walks away from Jesus Christ and joins certain satanic groups must go through the rite of Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

But you say if he walked away from us , he was never really one of us....that dog won't hunt, because of the fruit that Templeton bore while serving Jesus Christ.

This is the most severe form of walking away from salvation. Those that abide in the vine abide for good. It takes a long time to walk away and then blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

I have a problem with this. It is not an issue of free will. or choice, What is in view is Gods omniscience, and his character as a whole.

Saying a person can walk away from God after he is saved is like saying God did not know the person would walk away to begin with. This it says God is not who he says he is..

I also can not believe a person who has true faith, and has experienced the true love of God would ever walk away to the point he denies christ, and rejects him period.. He may walk away (prodigal) and may even outwardly act like he is not a christian, But to say, I no longer believe in God.. sorry I can not agree.

I was a prodigal for 5 years. I sinned great sins, I was angry, I hated what God allowed in my life. But I NEVER ONCE thought God did not exist, Or Jesus did not do what he promised on the cross.

 

[wvbeliever]

I don't know that man but going by what was said Templeton showed his fruits and shows this verse true I John 1:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[wvbeliever]

I sorry I John 2:19 and not 1:19.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't know that man but going by what was said Templeton showed his fruits and shows this verse true I John 1:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

I think this passage says it all.

People who walk away and now deny Christ (what John calls antichrist) never were of us, They were part of us, but they proved they were never of us, otherwise, they NEVER WOULD HAVE DEPARTED.

A person can be in church, look like th emost Godly person in the church, and not be saved at all. A persons actions are not what saves them, it is there faith.. People who have no faith will eventually fall, and walk away, Because they have nothing to sustain them..

 

[eph610]

I was a prodigal for 5 years. I sinned great sins, I was angry, I hated what God allowed in my life. But I NEVER ONCE thought God did not exist, Or Jesus did not do what he promised on the cross.

That is the difference right there EG. I was also Prodigal for 28 years but I never dismissed or Blasphemed the Holy Spirit and like you I NEVER ONCE thought God did not exist, Or Jesus did not do what he promised on the cross.

It took decades for Templeton to walk away....we probably disagree and that's fine, I am not going to be silly and start division with you or anything

 

[eph610]

I don't know that man but going by what was said Templeton showed his fruits and shows this verse true I John 1:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

I think you would do well to check out the story of Templeton.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think you would do well to check out the story of Templeton.

I do not want to argue either. and agree with you it is not worth it.

But will say, According to what you posted. Templeton became an AntiChrist. He rejected creation, and God. Thus, according to the apostle John, He never was of us.

Again, Many people can act like Gods children, it does not make them one. Many charismatic people can have a following. and appear to do many wonderful things for God. I am sure Judas looked like a true disciple but as we saw, He was never saved, as I said, if their faith is not real. they will walk away.

 

[eph610]

I have a problem with this. It is not an issue of free will. or choice, What is in view is Gods omniscience, and his character as a whole.

Saying a person can walk away from God after he is saved is like saying God did not know the person would walk away to begin with. This it says God is not who he says he is..

I also can not believe a person who has true faith, and has experienced the true love of God would ever walk away to the point he denies christ, and rejects him period.. He may walk away (prodigal) and may even outwardly act like he is not a christian, But to say, I no longer believe in God.. sorry I can not agree.

I was a prodigal for 5 years. I sinned great sins, I was angry, I hated what God allowed in my life. But I NEVER ONCE thought God did not exist, Or Jesus did not do what he promised on the cross.

1 Timothy 1.18-20 completely backs up what happened to Charles Templeton and many more.

This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, [SUP]19 [/SUP]keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

We must keep context in 1 John 2.19, that is telling us that Gnostic false teachers who were discerned as false from the start went their own way. John was saying, hey folks!!!! we knew these guys to be false teachers, even while they were among us we knew they were false teachers and they finally left, because they never really followed the true gospel and when they finally left we knew why the left, because they were in obvious error and never did belong with us.

This passage as well as most of 1 John has zero to do with personal salvation and everything to do with discerning false teachers and those with a spirit of antichrist.