JP teaches "self righteousness" and instant "perfectionism"

[eternally-gratefull]

I think positional standing in Christ is being mistaken for 'instant perfection'

as it is, NEITHER one states we become perfect in ourselves...it is ONLY IN Christ...as already pointed out

such a meandering, mixed up idea presented as someone twisting the gospel, when in fact the op does not understand the gospel

and on it goes

It is the same old pharisee attitude seen on modern days,

Lets take something that looks good (they claim they are perfect the moment they believe) and use that against them.

When in reality they ignore what the person is actually saying, and in turn, it turn to slander, because the argument being made against the person in question, is not even what the person said to begin with, just the attackers view of what the person said, which is wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Right, sanctification is the justified life. And it’s all the work of Christ. Justification is objective, Christ’s work for us. Sanctification is subjective, Christ’s work within us.

Amen give credit where credit is due..

Even thouogh they will attack us for doing so.. Let their pride be shown..

 

[LaurenTM]

It is the same old pharisee attitude seen on modern days,

Lets take something that looks good (they claim they are perfect the moment they believe) and use that against them.

When in reality they ignore what the person is actually saying, and in turn, it turn to slander, because the argument being made against the person in question, is not even what the person said to begin with, just the attackers view of what the person said, which is wrong.

you're on fire today

good stuff!

 

[Grace777x70]

If one is truly "under God's grace" "sin shall not have dominion over you." This is what I preach, but this is not what Joseph Prince preaches. So who is preaching the true grace message that is in line with every word of God?

Again you have spoken what is totally not true. Don't you ever get tired of constantly lying and mis-representing other people in the body of Christ?

According to your religion and your "application" of 1 John 5:18 - if someone sins they are NOT born of God.


Let's hear from the horse's mouth "exactly" what he does say about sin not having dominion over you. Then the lies and slander and malice can be seen for what it really is.



[video=youtube;I-DcZA8NO44]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-DcZA8NO44[/video]

 

[Jimbone]

Resisting temptation whilst renewing your mind according to the spirit go hand in hand.

If our sins are forgiven and removed, what is left?

I agree with this so much and think this is a key point of this whole ongoing debate, which isn't a bad thing to discuss until we leave reason and let emotion take over, then when we start "teaching" each other in anger and pride starts to show it's ugly head. I too believe that when we are truly saved and have been remade that it causes a change in you, makes us WANT to live better lives, it is NEVER chain's or a burden but the diametric opposite of being enslaved, it is pure freedom in it's purest form like no other. I feel you can't truly have an encounter with the True, Real, Living God "THE" Creator of everything and just "not be changed". That is the evidence that you have been reborn right? The chains are broken and we are free in Christ, right? That's been my experience with God anyway.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Again you have spoken what is totally not true. Don't you ever get tired of constantly lying and mis-representing other people in the body of Christ?





[video=youtube;I-DcZA8NO44]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-DcZA8NO44[/video]

Wow, what a phony! Mr. Prince in this video suggests that the law does not tell you to love....as in to Love your wife. Need I say more? He is a proven phony over and over again, follow this heretic at your own peril!

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Wow, what a phony! Mr. Prince in this video suggests that the law does not tell you to love....as in to Love your wife. Need I say more? He is a proven phony over and over again, follow this heretic at your own peril!

Where does the law say that specifically though? I mean you could touch on Mal 2:14 and dealing treacherously with the wife of their covenant but most of the love your wife verses are in the NT which always struck me as funny as to why they actually needed to be told to.

 

[ladylynn]

You have not proven that I have had bad translations of the scripture. I post from the NASB. I realize it may "conflict" with your religious beliefs but that's the way things like this happen to all of us.

I too could post lengths of actual Greek scriptures in my posts but I know that 99.99 % of the people ( including yourself - if you didn't look it up ) don't know the language nor do they need to know it. It is the Holy Spirit that illuminates the truths of the scriptures to us and reveals the work of Christ in our lives - we don't get that by reading Greek nor from man's opinion written in a Greek book about what his particular thoughts are on a text as he is just giving "his own interpretation" of what he thinks it means - all this is based on his religious teachings too.

There are Greek scholars that do believe in the gifts of the Spirit are for today and there are some that do not - so just because one is a Greek scholar is actually meaningless in the interpretation and "application" of a scripture. That is the Holy Spirit's job.

People could be absolutely fluent in Greek and Hebrew and Aramaic and not have a spiritual clue to what this means in the light of what Christ has done for us at the cross, burial, resurrection and ascension to the right hand of the Father - and the fact that the Christian is there with Christ.

I have also taken Greek too but as I have said before the Lord does not want me to be bogged down with being able to read it from it's original state. I am happy for you that you are taking on-line courses in Greek and I hope you are well enough to continue doing so if that is the Lord's plan for you.

We need the revelation of Christ from the Holy Spirit in order to understand the scriptures - we could study the scriptures for 60 years including the original languages and still miss what is really being said by the Spirit of God to us that are in Christ now.

The truth behind the fact that we are new creations in Christ created in righteousness and holiness is of paramount importance if we are to walk in the true Christian life that is in us that believe.

Sometimes truth "conflicts" with our religious traditions and it upsets us - I know...I have been there and still am in many areas that I need to have my mind renewed to. We think we are "defending the faith" but in reality we are just "defending our religious traditions".

Anyway, I trust that you are feeling better and that you be strengthened by the Spirit of God in your endeavoring to walk in Christ.

Thank you Bruce for always being a gentleman and also for your love of the brethren.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Where does the law say that specifically though? I mean you could touch on Mal 2:14 and dealing treacherously with the wife of their covenant but most of the love your wife verses are in the NT which always struck me as funny as to why they actually needed to be told to.

All the law hangs on that foundation of Love. Love God, love your fellow man, love even your enemy. Does your wife or husband fall into that same category? We are told to love our wives as Christ loves the Church.

Romans 13:8

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Saying the law does not teach one to love your wife is ridiculous, and just goes to show how Mr Prince teaches antinomianism.

 

[FreeNChrist]

All the law hangs on that foundation of Love. Love God, love your fellow man, love even your enemy. Does your wife or husband fall into that same category? We are told to love our wives as Christ loves the Church.

Romans 13:8

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Saying the law does not teach one to love your wife is ridiculous, and just goes to show how Mr Prince teaches antinomianism.

The Law doesn't teach you how to love, it teaches you just how unloving you are.

 

[ladylynn]

Again you have spoken what is totally not true. Don't you ever get tired of constantly lying and mis-representing other people in the body of Christ?

According to your religion and your "application" of 1 John 5:18 - if someone sins they are NOT born of God.


Let's hear from the horse's mouth "exactly" what he does say about sin not having dominion over you. Then the lies and slander and malice can be seen for what it really is.



[video=youtube;I-DcZA8NO44]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-DcZA8NO44[/video]

This is an awesome bunch of messages you posted Bruce! Sure wish the others who hate this guy would take the time to listen and get a "clue". These messages are just a few of the reasons I enjoy listening to this Pastor.

 

[Grace777x70]

All the law hangs on that foundation of Love. Love God, love your fellow man, love even your enemy. Does your wife or husband fall into that same category? We are told to love our wives as Christ loves the Church.

Romans 13:8

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Saying the law does not teach one to love your wife is ridiculous, and just goes to show how Mr Prince teaches antinomianism.

Nonsense ...you took what he said and "twisted" it to say something else. No one can love with God's kind of love until the Holy Spirit comes into our hearts . Romans 5:5 No one can fulfill the law by love until they are born of the Spirit of God.

As far the continuous lying goes about being antinomian. Here is what is really being said so that the truth can be seen by all.

Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against God’s Law?

Some take this claim so far as to suggest that we even want to throw out or ignore the Old Testament. Wow! What wild imaginations these accusers have! The truth is that we are by no means antinomian (against the law of God), nor do we disbelieve or avoid teaching the Old Testament. Most of us actually esteem the power and purpose of God’s law so highly that we understand grace to be the only way of escape from its impossibly stringent demands.

Paul shared in Romans 3 and elsewhere that God’s purposes for the law were two-fold: 1) to stop our self-righteous excuses, minimizations and justifications of our sin and 2) to reveal our desperate need of a Savior by grace through faith.

The entire thrust of Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount was to bury His very self-righteous audience under the weight of one inescapable reality: “Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the world’s most stringent law-keepers (the Pharisees and teachers of the law) you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matt.5:20).

That Jesus came to “fulfill” the Law (Matt. 5:17) means that He came to keep its demands perfectly because He knew that we couldn’t and wouldn’t. He fulfilled the stringent demands of the Law on our behalf as our Substitute so that His record of perfection could be credited to our spiritual account when we received Him by grace through faith. He did what you and I couldn’t and wouldn’t, and the Sermon on the Mount is a damning indictment of anyone who thinks they can measure up to God’s standards on their own effort.

And have you heard of this “cheap grace” idea? Sometimes the term is ripped off and redefined from Bonhoeffer’s vocabulary to insinuate that the hyper-grace movement has cheapened the grace of God by making it “too easy” for people to attain. After all, we live in a world where there’s no such thingas a free lunch, right? We certainly don't believe or teach that grace is cheap. It cost Jesus His life! But we DO agree with the New Testament that His grace is FREE to those who receive it freely by faith.

The truth of the matter is that hyper-grace teachers are not guilty of promoting cheap grace at all. Rather, our critics are often guilty of promoting cheap Law! Far from being anti-law, WE are the ones who esteem God's Law so highly as to conclude that there is no escape from its condemnation apart from faith in Christ alone!

The Law is an all-or-nothing proposition. To stumble in just one aspect of keeping it is the equivalent of breaking all of it (James 2:10). The Law is a ministry of death and condemnation (2 Cor. 3:7-11). The Law is not the bad guy, however. It simply points out who the bad guys are (the world, the flesh and the devil)! The Law is holy and pure and designed to show us what sin is (Rom.7:7).

But living under Law cannot save, change or transform a single heart – only grace can! And this is why we are so adamant about never mixing a law-based mentality with a grace-based mentality toward spiritual life or growth under God’s New Covenant. The New Testament repeatedly affirms that our salvation and sanctification are either completely by law or completely by grace, but cannot be a result of mixing the two.
Conclusion:

With all of that said, the idea of trying to somehow “balance grace” with anything is ludicrous according to both Scripture and plain reason. Grace, by definition, is radically IMBALANCED in our favor! If it were not, it would cease to be grace on that very basis! The term “hyper-grace” is far from insulting! It is in fact the ONLY kind of grace taught, supportedand promoted in the Bible.

God understands that His grace is open to the possibility of abuse by those who might misunderstand it. He understands that people may take His grace for granted or even at times misrepresent it as a license to sin. Paul addressed those concerns very clearly, as did Jesus and the other New Testament writers.


Here is the link to the article as it has other mis-representations that are addressed also.

This should stop the lies , slander, and malice from continuing but this has been shown many times and yet the lies still are being said. What drives this sort of behavior?

http://surrenderedimage.com/Blog/why-i-am-hyper-grace-answering-five-common-objections-32708

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The Law doesn't teach you how to love,

The Spirit of the law does, if it is written on your heart.

[h=1]Titus 2[/h] 2 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

[SUP]4 [/SUP]That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

[SUP]5 [/SUP]To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Law doesn't teach you how to love, it teaches you just how unloving you are.

The "schoomaster" aspect is just beyond to many a person's scope of understanding.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

All the law hangs on that foundation of Love. Love God, love your fellow man, love even your enemy. Does your wife or husband fall into that same category? We are told to love our wives as Christ loves the Church.

Romans 13:8

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Saying the law does not teach one to love your wife is ridiculous, and just goes to show how Mr Prince teaches antinomianism.

I agree that the law does speak of love such as loving ones neighbor and that when asked concerning what was the greatest of the commandments Jesus speaks of all the law and the prophets hung on the two in respects to loving God and ones neighbor (as oneself) whereas in the NT he that loves his wife loves himself is more specifically shown there then in the previous.

The reason I brought it up is because I had always thought it strange that a man needs to be told to love his wife in the NT where you cant really find a direct reference to loving ones wife but that which is written concerning putting her away and what was written moreso for the hardness of mens hearts in the law that way.

He would circumcise their hearts "so that" they may love the Lord thy God (the first commandment) which is also to keep his (which should be to love your neighbor as oneself which should be inclusive of ones wife) having a heart of flesh, its just that they are told more specifically so in the NT and where Jesus might say, love your neightbor as yourself the apostles say a man who loves his wife actually loves himself (she being his own body) the woman isnt so much told to love the man as much as the men are told to love their wives, whereas the men (as it seemed to be adressed somewhat) seemed to key into asking about putting away their wives and sort of pushing that back at Jesus (in that "what say you" on this issue) because Moses justified us doing just this, and its there Jesus brings into it the hardness of their own hearts in that allowance whereas it wasnt so from the beginning, and in the NT the apostles adress this issue directed moreso at the men concerning their wives (even giving the honor to her as th weaker) whereas the wives moreso in the being subject end of things.

The weight of things is what I was looking at because I always found that curious myself

And you know I dont know anything of these ISMS (they drive me bonkers) a new ISM seems created everyday, not always but I typically ignore the most of them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Spirit of the law does, if it is written on your heart.

Titus 2

2 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

[SUP]4 [/SUP]That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

[SUP]5 [/SUP]To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

No, The spirit of the law does not.

The Spirit of God does. We love because he first loved us, Not because God gave us some law.
Love fulfills the law, The law does not fulfill love, It can;t all it can do is condemns, and point us to christ.

 

[FreeNChrist]

The "schoomaster" aspect is just beyond to many a person's scope of understanding.

Some people are just career students of the past....

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Nonsense ...you took what he said and "twisted" it to say something else. No one can love with God's kind of love until the Holy Spirit comes into our hearts . Romans 5:5 No one can fulfill the law by love until they are born of the Spirit of God.

As far the continuous lying goes about being antinomian. Here is what is really being said so that the truth can be seen by all.

Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against God’s Law?

Some take this claim so far as to suggest that we even want to throw out or ignore the Old Testament. Wow! What wild imaginations these accusers have! The truth is that we are by no means antinomian (against the law of God), nor do we disbelieve or avoid teaching the Old Testament. Most of us actually esteem the power and purpose of God’s law so highly that we understand grace to be the only way of escape from its impossibly stringent demands.

Paul shared in Romans 3 and elsewhere that God’s purposes for the law were two-fold: 1) to stop our self-righteous excuses, minimizations and justifications of our sin and 2) to reveal our desperate need of a Savior by grace through faith.

The entire thrust of Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount was to bury His very self-righteous audience under the weight of one inescapable reality: “Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the world’s most stringent law-keepers (the Pharisees and teachers of the law) you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matt.5:20).

That Jesus came to “fulfill” the Law (Matt. 5:17) means that He came to keep its demands perfectly because He knew that we couldn’t and wouldn’t. He fulfilled the stringent demands of the Law on our behalf as our Substitute so that His record of perfection could be credited to our spiritual account when we received Him by grace through faith. He did what you and I couldn’t and wouldn’t, and the Sermon on the Mount is a damning indictment of anyone who thinks they can measure up to God’s standards on their own effort.

And have you heard of this “cheap grace” idea? Sometimes the term is ripped off and redefined from Bonhoeffer’s vocabulary to insinuate that the hyper-grace movement has cheapened the grace of God by making it “too easy” for people to attain. After all, we live in a world where there’s no such thingas a free lunch, right? We certainly don't believe or teach that grace is cheap. It cost Jesus His life! But we DO agree with the New Testament that His grace is FREE to those who receive it freely by faith.

The truth of the matter is that hyper-grace teachers are not guilty of promoting cheap grace at all. Rather, our critics are often guilty of promoting cheap Law! Far from being anti-law, WE are the ones who esteem God's Law so highly as to conclude that there is no escape from its condemnation apart from faith in Christ alone!

The Law is an all-or-nothing proposition. To stumble in just one aspect of keeping it is the equivalent of breaking all of it (James 2:10). The Law is a ministry of death and condemnation (2 Cor. 3:7-11). The Law is not the bad guy, however. It simply points out who the bad guys are (the world, the flesh and the devil)! The Law is holy and pure and designed to show us what sin is (Rom.7:7).

But living under Law cannot save, change or transform a single heart – only grace can! And this is why we are so adamant about never mixing a law-based mentality with a grace-based mentality toward spiritual life or growth under God’s New Covenant. The New Testament repeatedly affirms that our salvation and sanctification are either completely by law or completely by grace, but cannot be a result of mixing the two.
Conclusion:

With all of that said, the idea of trying to somehow “balance grace” with anything is ludicrous according to both Scripture and plain reason. Grace, by definition, is radically IMBALANCED in our favor! If it were not, it would cease to be grace on that very basis! The term “hyper-grace” is far from insulting! It is in fact the ONLY kind of grace taught, supportedand promoted in the Bible.

God understands that His grace is open to the possibility of abuse by those who might misunderstand it. He understands that people may take His grace for granted or even at times misrepresent it as a license to sin. Paul addressed those concerns very clearly, as did Jesus and the other New Testament writers.


Here is the link to the article as it has other mis-representations that are addressed also.

This should stop the lies , slander, and malice from continuing but this has been shown many times and yet the lies still are being said. What drives this sort of behavior?

http://surrenderedimage.com/Blog/why-i-am-hyper-grace-answering-five-common-objections-32708

Face it, Prince is a heretic, the law does in fact teach us to Love.....Love fulfills the law. Pretty simple stuff.

 

[FreeNChrist]

The Spirit of the law does, if it is written on your heart.

Titus 2

2 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

[SUP]4 [/SUP]That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

[SUP]5 [/SUP]To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Sounds like grace to me....


[h=1]Titus 2:11-12

"For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age"[/h]

 

[Grace777x70]

Face it, Prince is a heretic, the law does in fact teach us to Love.....Love fulfills the law. Pretty simple stuff.

It is very obvious who is the one doing the lying, slandering and is malice-filled towards the people in the body of Christ.

I'll leave it like that as everyone can see what is really happening here - we are not going to fall for your "baiting" so go ahead and continue your false witness and slandering against those in the body of Christ that don't see some scriptures as you do.