DECEMBER 25?

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a little early to be attacking Christmas isn't it? what of halloween and thanksgiving?
Christmas is supposed to be about the birth of Jesus granted it's not the day he was born rather it's a a day we celebrate his birth although satan has turned it into about santa and presents many ppl have always seen it as a day to remember the birth of the savior or our world not that I am sure the op didn't know all this but this isn't a topic that needs to be discussed it's one that can be discussed but is one that is never resolved.

God looks to the heart and if I am called pagan for celebrating his birth on december 25th then so be it but he has yet to correct me in celebrating his birth on that day
 
my friends,
if we make up our own holy days, or borrow them from pagans, we are doing what God told us not to do. Aaron was one of the first to try this. He pulled a bull out of the fire and called it YHVH. So, for the next several centuries, they had to put literal bulls back in the fire.

I don't mean this as an attack on any person, but on the institution of Dec25th.

We can accuse Judaizers of promoting rituals that are not in the Scriptures, but what about when we do the same thing?

First, we do not borrow holy days of pagans, we are talking about DATE only. The content is absolutelly different.

Second, we are not living under the OT, but are free to observe or not to observe whatever day we want, as NT says. And again, no Christian is observing "saturnalia", but only, by tradition, the same DATE, but with different MEANING.
 
Is everyone aware that one definition of holy is simply separate. We are a holy people, a separated people from non-bleivers. Even though we are in this world we are no longer of this world.

If we separate a day for the sake of commemorating the birth of ut Savior, His sukffering and dying for our sins began with that birth, there can be no sin; we have simply separated a day for ourslves to commemorate this awesom event. It is a day of joy, and since no many can say with certainty the actual date if we feel a needful desire to obsrve His gloriuus birth on a day, our Father will not deem it unfit if done with a clear conscience in His sight. Let no man concrn himself with the opinions of others for that would be apostasy.
 
..No one said that if you go to Church on the 25th that your a pegan.. no one said that. Dont ake people worse here than they are...just sayin
 
my brother, when I was younger, even for most of my adult life, I also celebrated the December 25 Lie.

there comes a time in the learning process when we have to step away from the lies and tricks of the enemy, in my opinion.

he has commanded us to NOT worship Him in the same ways the pagans do.
with respect, dm


For those of us that have had our spiritual eyes open, it's not a problem to
celebrate the birth of the most important person in history on 25 December.
We understand the father heart of God, unfortunately not everyone does and
they still view God as a hard authoritative task master with a "to do list" as long as
your arm.

Mike I don't respond to you much as it's not worth the effort to debate with you about
your legalistic mind set which I can't change, but I do pray that the Holy Spirit will
truely open your eyes one day.

In the meantime the following comparison might help.
A young child does not understand their emotions or right from wrong. So
if they reach out to pick up a knife or touch a fire for example. Then a
responsible parent may give them a tap on the hand or yell at them.
The parent does not want to make them feel bad or hurt them, it's just the
only way to get through to their fleshy understanding, their fleshy nature.

Then later as they grow up, their understanding is opened and they realise why
those laws were there, i.e. don't play with fire or knives or you will get hurt.
Instead that growing child will come to understand the parent does really love them
and want to keep them from harm, they will develop a conscious of what is right and
wrong. But more so they will love the father and want to remain on good terms
and develope a good relationship with their father. They will want to do the right
thing because they love the father.

Arguments and discord will happen from time to time due to that fleshy nature but that
is part of growing up and learning, the child just says sorry I love you. The father says
that's ok I love you too, let's forget it and move on. You are more precious to me than
anything else in the world.

So the child content in the fathers love, desires to do the right thing to maintain
that relationship. They walk in that relationship out of love, they do the right thing
out of love and a tender conscious develops making them all too keenly aware of
the areas where they need improvement. That fleshy nature starts to be replaced with
a spiritual nature.


What they don't need any more is a rule book the size of the Britania Encyclopedia
on their back weighing them down everywhere they go, while trying to get everyone
else to carry that same burden as well.

They understand that it's ok to have a day/s to celebrate the fathers love and if
that means trimming up, getting excited, eating, going to church, giving each
other gifts (just as God the father has given us so many gifts) then that's ok.
God the father loves that almost the entire planet celebrates 25 December even if
nowadays some are trying to take Christ out of Christmas. Satan however loathes
it, the last thing satan wants is for people to remember the birth, death and
resurrection of Christ, the last thing satan wants is for people to actual celebrate
Christmas.

Dont do satan's work for him just because you don't yet understand the
Father Heart of God.

Ps one year just before Christmas I kept getting dreams about someone turning
up at my door with a gift, and it wasn't Santa! I felt compelled to seal up an
empty gift bag and to put on it from God to me.

I can't explain it but I was so excited to open that bag on Christmas Day that all the
other presents didn't seem to matter. I knew there was nothing physically in it but I
was excited anyway.

I opened it following a time of prayer and worship and I can't explain the supernatural
peace and joy I felt that came into the room. I felt that truely God wanted to share
25 Dec with me that year. I would add that He does every year, but that year I
felt that symbolic gesture was a matter of faith and understanding the father
heart of God in a new way for me.
 
All I can is wow! There is nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas as long as you know it has nothing to do with Santa or receiving presents. It's about taking one day a year celebrating the birth of our Savior Jesus Christ who later took beatings and died as a perfect sacrifice for our sins. Nothing wrong with that :)
 
a little early to be attacking Christmas isn't it? what of halloween and thanksgiving?
Christmas is supposed to be about the birth of Jesus granted it's not the day he was born rather it's a a day we celebrate his birth although satan has turned it into about santa and presents many ppl have always seen it as a day to remember the birth of the savior or our world not that I am sure the op didn't know all this but this isn't a topic that needs to be discussed it's one that can be discussed but is one that is never resolved.

God looks to the heart and if I am called pagan for celebrating his birth on december 25th then so be it but he has yet to correct me in celebrating his birth on that day

Yes let's attack halloween! Now there is a clearly pagan celebration the masses accept yet there are very few posts about this. I try to turn this around for good without even participating in this - I largely ignore it but it's difficult when the whole world loves it. Last year I put a note on my door stating any money I would have spent on sweets would be going to children who cannot feed themselves. The year before that I but Gospel tracts inside bags of sweets. This year I will do the same as last year...turning it around for good.
 
What special and unique ways have you seen Saturnalia celebrated?

LOL I never heard the word "Saturnalia". I have another one for my brain to get its neurons round, LOL I had to read it carefully it looks like santanella LOL, but joking apart it is a serious thing this winter celebration.

It is pagan. I had it explained to me that on the 25th, the sun starts to clime again and it is visible when using a 'henge'. Up to this point the sun sinks and to the human/flesh would seem to be shrinking for ever. Between the 21st and the 24th it comes to a stand still and does not sink, but neither does it rise. On the 25th it starts to clime again. This was used as a form of control. People were coerced into a belief system that seemed to rely on fear and ritual to make the sun rise.

Then comes the point of scrutiny, The word of God was watered down and started to loose its power. Those sent from Rome to convert the pagans that practised these things feared for their life, so instead of telling the truth, like Paul did in Athens, they incorporated these things and changed their meaning. The birth of a new year became the birth of Jesus, The planting festivals and the cultivation festivals, the harvest festivals, which all relied on the 'henge' became Easter and All Hallows day festivals (Easter because of the passover was an easy one to introduce).

All the saints days and there are loads of them, became the feasts of various tribes, and over the years that followed they were all incorporated in to what became ''christianity'' (small c intended). Through prayer I have been led to surmise that the "Deeds of the Nicolatians" are what brought about what christianity is now (in the wider context). The purity of Gods message has been eroded to input the excuse for a party with excess (because the pagans know how to throw a good party).

There is only one feast we are now called to partake of. We do all live in this world and have to interact with it. In my house we have home made decorations over the Christmas period and my children have gifts. But it has no bearing on Jesus or the wise men. For myself and my family it is just a family time. There is no religious connotation there, we use it as we do bonfire night (British history), it is just for fun. we could do it at another time but that would bring our children to a place I don't want them (I have seen how the children of JW's are treated when they have gifts given at mid summer, it isn't good).

It all comes down to how we perceive our relationship with Jesus. If we do as we are told, or if we add stuff and make it 'lore'. Have a celebration when ever you want one, always give thanks to God for what He has given you to be able to do it, but don't impose stuff that isn't there for imposing. Enjoy your life as you can. Any father loves to watch his children play and we have a wonderful father.
 
God, the Creator, is very specific about which days He made holy.

Like it or not, He did not give us permission to make up our own.
Again, He was/is very clear when He told us to NOT do it.

My friends, God is the only one that can make a day holy or blessed. We can't.
We don't have that right.
 
Yes let's attack halloween! Now there is a clearly pagan celebration the masses accept yet there are very few posts about this. I try to turn this around for good without even participating in this - I largely ignore it but it's difficult when the whole world loves it. Last year I put a note on my door stating any money I would have spent on sweets would be going to children who cannot feed themselves. The year before that I but Gospel tracts inside bags of sweets. This year I will do the same as last year...turning it around for good.


I agree, personally I never celebrate Halloween. Yet some Christians celebrate Halloween
but won't celebrate Christmas just because we dont know the exact date Jesus was born.
How screwed up is that!
 
God, the Creator, is very specific about which days He made holy.

Like it or not, He did not give us permission to make up our own.
Again, He was/is very clear when He told us to NOT do it.

My friends, God is the only one that can make a day holy or blessed. We can't.
We don't have that right.

Only those in the spirit of God understands what is meant by the 7th day ( sabbath ) rest. Those of us in the spirit can rest forever now that we understand how we're created. It has take a very long time for God to reveal what His voice is and how it was used to create everything we experience.

John 1
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: He was in the beginning with God;
3: all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
4: In him was life, and the life was the light of men.


John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.


The Spirit of God is the Tree of Life that was hidden from the flesh of man since man woke up in a body that he thought was real. Now we know who the proud of the earth are in the following prophecy;

Psalm 22:
25: From thee comes my praise in the great congregation; my vows I will pay before those who fear him.
26: The afflicted shall eat and be satisfied; those who seek him shall praise the LORD! May your hearts live for ever!
27: All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the LORD; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.
28: For dominion belongs to the LORD, and he rules over the nations.
29: Yea, to him shall all the proud of the earth bow down; before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, and he who cannot keep himself alive.
30: Posterity shall serve him; men shall tell of the Lord to the coming generation,
31: and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn, that he has wrought it.
 
Well I for myself do not celebrate Easter, nor Christmas,... I cannot have a clear conscience going to church celebrating these days. After knowing the history and the practices of these pegan holidays it (for me) is disgusting to celebrate Christ then.
I take God very seriously when he tells us not to follow pegan rituals and practices (including christmas trees and coloured eggs)
like said, especially because of the history.
Its on the people to follow God or to follow man. I think its a topic to talk about in love with one another without attacks. I will not damn anyone for celebrating those days. I just think people have to know the history before they throw it into the trash as ''Ill just do it anyways, pegan or not''.

There were so many pagan religions that almost every day is some "pagan" day.

If you want to celebrate Christ only on some kind of "historically pure day", you would have to invent new days and add them to the year.

Its a very similar situation with other areas of life.. is your clothes made by Christians or not? If not, can you go to church in it? What about your house? Is it pure Christian product? If not, can you read Bible in such house? Etc.

Such idea is obviously wrong. Christianity is about our heart, not about the world around us.

We should be aware of what is wrong/evil today (catholicism, islam, judaism, eastern influences, hollywood influences), not of some date that meant something different 1700 years ago.
 
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If you argue about the visible things that you observe in the world, how are you ever going to understand the invisible knowledge of God that has been revealed through the prophets and saints who testified to the word of the Lord?
 
Already starting the annual Christmas is demonic conversation ey? Kinda like the supermarkets putting up Xmas decorations in October lol.. Oh well, gonna happen eventually and it's mike's first Christmas with us :D
 
I agree, personally I never celebrate Halloween. Yet some Christians celebrate Halloween
but won't celebrate Christmas just because we dont know the exact date Jesus was born.
How screwed up is that!

Methinks we need to pick up a couple screwdrivers from the hardware store and tighten the screws in people's heads

Btw I'm totally kidding lol :p
 
Already starting the annual Christmas is demonic conversation ey? Kinda like the supermarkets putting up Xmas decorations in October lol.. Oh well, gonna happen eventually and it's mike's first Christmas with us :D

Breno, good morning,
what is your opinion on the Dec25 thing, not the secular side, but the church side?