Did Jesus fail????
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Again this is bearing false witness of me because I have not made false statements in my OP, BUT QUOTED THE WORDS OF JOSEPH PRINCE from his book. Stop the lies!
What the self-proclaimed heretic hunters do is take a quote out of the context it was given to make it "appear" to be "saying something else entirely" on it's own when you look at the quote just on it's face value.
They are like the Pharisees that accused Jesus of being a drunkard and of defiling the temple. They are merely exhibiting their ungodly behavior by appearing to be so pious but they are full of malice and slander.
What these heretic hunters do is make a "straw-man" up of something taken out of context - then present it in a way to "show" the craziness of what is said.
- but in reality - it is a "construct" of their own minds that "twisted" what was said when you look at the rest of what someone said - before the quote and after the quote.
In order to see what someone is "really saying" about something - the quote needs to be viewed in the context it was given.
They are like the Pharisees that accused Jesus of being a drunkard and of defiling the temple. They are merely exhibiting their ungodly behavior by appearing to be so pious but they are full of malice and slander.
What these heretic hunters do is make a "straw-man" up of something taken out of context - then present it in a way to "show" the craziness of what is said.
- but in reality - it is a "construct" of their own minds that "twisted" what was said when you look at the rest of what someone said - before the quote and after the quote.
In order to see what someone is "really saying" about something - the quote needs to be viewed in the context it was given.
I believe Willie has the book...and I believe he gave a synopsis of the purpose of the quote in post #94
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/142726-did-jesus-fail-5.html#post2824804
G
Gr8grace
Guest
You are sick and need to be healed. SPIRITUALLY. Acts 16:31
You don't sin and all your thoughts are 100% pure? He took the judgement for sin, But obviously he didn't put a stop to it. Do you see sin in this world? YES.
Please come to the light. You sin, you sin willfully and you sin habitually. Every single one of us do, and it will not end until we DIE. What we think, even if it was a split second of anger,frustration,guilt,worry it is a sin. You have all of it STOPPED?
How can you be so deluded?
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This is interesting to me because of something I was reading today that puzzled me. The man was saying we have to take care to differentiate between if God has gone silent because He has put us on a fast or if He has gone silent because we have willfully sinned.
I thought about it for a long, long time. I do not believe I have willfully sinned since I've met Him. I have either 1.) Not known I was sinning, literally couldn't SEE it until He showed me OR 2.) Sinning, but wanting very badly not to sin. As in, I do what I don't want (or will) to do, as Paul said.
So when you say we all sin willfully, what exactly do you mean, G8?
Here is the full quote from Destined to Reign.
David’s Definition Of Blessedness
If this lady had continued to believe that God was punishing
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her for some sin, she would have just gritted her teeth, accepted her sickness as punishment and never sought God for healing. But praise God He brought light into her situation, and showed her how much He loved her!
“But Pastor Prince, didn’t God punish King David for his sin and he lost his child?”
Don’t forget that David, like Elijah, lived before the cross of Jesus. You will never find an example of God punishing a believer for his sins in the new covenant. Let’s study the Scriptures for ourselves and not just go by what people are saying.
When David sinned against God by committing adultery with Bathsheba and plotting the death of her husband, Uriah, sin was imputed to David and he was punished. Although the punishment was tempered with God’s mercy, David was punished nonetheless because he was under the covenant of law and not the covenant of grace.
Do you know who David was describing when he said, “Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin”? (Rom.4:8) Since it’s clear that sin was imputed to David, he could not have been describing himself as some scholars claim. No, he was looking prophetically into the covenant of grace. He was describing you and me — a new generation of people who are under the covenant of grace!
What does “shall not impute sin” mean? Does it mean that you will never sin again? Did Jesus die on the cross to free us from committing sinful actions or harboring sinful thoughts? If He did, then allow me to conclude with reverence that He failed. You and I know fully well that we can still be tempted with sinful thoughts and tempted to commit sinful actions, and
˄ Page-57 ˄
there will still be times when we fail. Can you show me a man who is free from all temptations and who never fails?
My friend, when David described the blessed man as one to whom the Lord will not impute sin, he meant that even when this man sins, God will not count his sin against him, nor punish him for his iniquity. Too good to be true? That is why David defined this man as a blessed man. And this blessed man is you and me! Today, you are blessed because the Lord no longer counts your sins against you. Because of the cross
of Jesus, you will never be punished for your sins again. Your sins were imputed to Jesus, so that they would never be imputed to you. Under the new covenant of grace that was sealed with the blood of Jesus, God has already judged sin completely on the body of Jesus Christ. This means that even when you fall short of God’s holy standards, the punishment for sin will not fall on you. The wages of sin is death, but Jesus has already died on your behalf. Your sins have already been imputed to His account!
Today, you are blessed because the Lord no longer counts your sins against you. Because of the cross of Jesus,
you will never be punished for your sins again.
Look at what John said: “If anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” (1 John 2:1)
He did not say, “If anyone sins, he will be punished for his sins!” No, under the new covenant of grace, Jesus is today your Advocate. He represents you before God and as Jesus is, so are you! (1 John 4:17)
Is Jesus righteous before God? Yes! Then so are you. Is He accepted before God? Yes! Then so are you. Is He well-pleasing before God? Yes! Then so are you.
˄ Page-58 ˄
Now, will the revelation of what Jesus has done for you cause you to go out and sin? Of course not! In fact, knowing that He has borne your punishment will cause you to fall in love with Him. It will give you the strength to break free from sin!
David’s Definition Of Blessedness
If this lady had continued to believe that God was punishing
˄ Page-56 ˄
her for some sin, she would have just gritted her teeth, accepted her sickness as punishment and never sought God for healing. But praise God He brought light into her situation, and showed her how much He loved her!
“But Pastor Prince, didn’t God punish King David for his sin and he lost his child?”
Don’t forget that David, like Elijah, lived before the cross of Jesus. You will never find an example of God punishing a believer for his sins in the new covenant. Let’s study the Scriptures for ourselves and not just go by what people are saying.
When David sinned against God by committing adultery with Bathsheba and plotting the death of her husband, Uriah, sin was imputed to David and he was punished. Although the punishment was tempered with God’s mercy, David was punished nonetheless because he was under the covenant of law and not the covenant of grace.
Do you know who David was describing when he said, “Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin”? (Rom.4:8) Since it’s clear that sin was imputed to David, he could not have been describing himself as some scholars claim. No, he was looking prophetically into the covenant of grace. He was describing you and me — a new generation of people who are under the covenant of grace!
What does “shall not impute sin” mean? Does it mean that you will never sin again? Did Jesus die on the cross to free us from committing sinful actions or harboring sinful thoughts? If He did, then allow me to conclude with reverence that He failed. You and I know fully well that we can still be tempted with sinful thoughts and tempted to commit sinful actions, and
˄ Page-57 ˄
there will still be times when we fail. Can you show me a man who is free from all temptations and who never fails?
My friend, when David described the blessed man as one to whom the Lord will not impute sin, he meant that even when this man sins, God will not count his sin against him, nor punish him for his iniquity. Too good to be true? That is why David defined this man as a blessed man. And this blessed man is you and me! Today, you are blessed because the Lord no longer counts your sins against you. Because of the cross
of Jesus, you will never be punished for your sins again. Your sins were imputed to Jesus, so that they would never be imputed to you. Under the new covenant of grace that was sealed with the blood of Jesus, God has already judged sin completely on the body of Jesus Christ. This means that even when you fall short of God’s holy standards, the punishment for sin will not fall on you. The wages of sin is death, but Jesus has already died on your behalf. Your sins have already been imputed to His account!
Today, you are blessed because the Lord no longer counts your sins against you. Because of the cross of Jesus,
you will never be punished for your sins again.
Look at what John said: “If anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” (1 John 2:1)
He did not say, “If anyone sins, he will be punished for his sins!” No, under the new covenant of grace, Jesus is today your Advocate. He represents you before God and as Jesus is, so are you! (1 John 4:17)
Is Jesus righteous before God? Yes! Then so are you. Is He accepted before God? Yes! Then so are you. Is He well-pleasing before God? Yes! Then so are you.
˄ Page-58 ˄
Now, will the revelation of what Jesus has done for you cause you to go out and sin? Of course not! In fact, knowing that He has borne your punishment will cause you to fall in love with Him. It will give you the strength to break free from sin!
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Surely you do not EVEN believe what you just got through asking.....DO YOU?
If you do,,, Friend, you got bigger problems that wondering if Jesus Failed.
Thanks willie! That gives a better understanding of what he was trying to say.
You will usually find that it is the case with these books and articles so many of us are duped into chasing down and reposting here, that, as in this case, they selectively either leave out the text before the "quote" or the text after it .... that would have pretty well explained everything. But, giving the whole text defeats their opportunity to try and smear the author.
It isn't just the Legalists who do this. I have see Grace people try to pull the same crap.
We need to quit being so danged gullible, and read some of these things (in their entirety) for ourselves.
I understood what he was saying, though I don't agree with what he did to this man in his op.
God does set us free from sinful thoughts. It's part of the renewing of our minds.
Amen...well done Willie! Thank you!
This is a number of times now that you have done this to show what is being said in context. Others have done it too at different times.
The problem with this is that we have done this same thing so many times in the past to show what is "really being said" in context - and yet the slander and malicious threads still keep coming. There is something very drastically wrong with this type of behavior.
This is why I firmly believe since we are definitely not seeing any repentance that we need to implement Romans 16:17 until this ungodly behavior is dealt with in some form. This is not a church where there is leadership in place to deal with this type of behavior - so we need to guard our own hearts....
And yet we cannot let these things go "un-challenged" either. I think just not responding to them directly would work and just post truth in the thread as we see them and then trust the Holy Spirit to deal with it within all of our hearts and lives.
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But, it is not the "finger-snap" transition so many try to claim. I think it was something like 40 years later that Peter still sinned by shunning the Gentiles in his congregation when the Big-Wigs from Jerusalem came to visit, and not eating with them. That's kinda considered "sinning", that racial discrimination because of the "fear of man"..... concerned how it would look to the boys from headquarters.
I stand corrected. He may be slick in his approach but that does not mean that he is dishonest or erroneous in his teachings. Thank you for pointing this out for me.
You would think that certain people would get awfully tired of being repeatedly embarrassed by consistently having the full and honest writings posted right behind the sneaky things they try to pass off as legitimate quotations.
I know your heart and I know it was never your intent to do harm. You are precious and honorable. A man that we can all safely learn from. Bless you.
I agree...there must be something driving them to act like this even in the face of repeatedly being shown the truth.
The issue is that it maligns the gospel of the grace of Christ and it also defiles others to think these erroneous thoughts and then to pass them off to others too as if they are real. it's then gossip - hiding behind a mask called "defending the faith"....selah.
I'm chuckling just a little here
because I think it's a finger snap transition to call myself perfect after receiving the Holy Spirit even though I see, despite growth in virtue sometimes, so much imperfection that remains in me.