Did Jesus fail????

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Stephen63 said:
I plainly said He had THAT reputation, just not with the religious elite.

Try again.:)
Click to expand...

I went back and reread your post. Sorry, I thought you meant what you said in your opening sentence, and didn't noticed that you had changed your mind down at the bottom. Sorry, it is little hard for me to follow when you do things like that.
 
reneweddaybyday said:

ISIT's link does mention that "We don’t sin as believers when we walk in the light; we sin when we walk away from it. In which case, we do as I John 1:9 instructs, we repent and get back in the light!"

So I suppose we can conclude that ISIT follows the same instructions contained in 1 John 1:9 that the rest of us mere mortals follow.
Click to expand...

I suppose we could if he didn't repeatedly declare that he does not sin.... period.
 
reneweddaybyday said:

I reviewed what was at the site concerning the topic of this thread (Quote #19).

The person quoted in Post #1 did not directly respond to what was written by Joseph Prince as quoted by Willie-T from the book "Destined to Reign" (Post #108).

Mr. Prince made the statement quoted in the OP concerning Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

The problematic statement was made concerning the words will not impute sin. What does that mean?

I read from the link ISIT posted and this issue was not addressed. Instead, the person who took offense to the statement by Mr. Prince responded with Isaiah 53:5, 2 Peter 1:4-10, 1 John 1:8-9, James 1:14-15, 2 Corinthians 10:5.

But no mention was made of Romans 4:8 or the words "will not impute sin".


I would be interested in knowing what your thoughts are concerning Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

What does it mean when God says the Lord will not impute sin?

Does that mean a person will never sin again?

Or does it mean that if a person does sin, his/her sin will not be taken into account? Thank you.
Click to expand...


This thread is not about Romans 4:8 but about what Joseph Prince said verses what Jesus says about being set free from sin.

Here again is JP' own words----
Quote #19:
“Did Jesus die on the cross to free us from committing sinful actions or harboring sinful thoughts?
If He did, then allow me to conclude with reverence that He failed." Chapter 5, pages 58-59
Click to expand...

Compared to Jesus' words--->>>>John 8:36 "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

No amount of derailment tactics will smooth over the heresy of Joseph Princes statement above. If you want to start your own thread on Romans 4:8 be my guest, but Romans 4:8 is still not preaching a license to sin. :)
 
InSpiritInTruth said:
This thread is not about Romans 4:8 but about what Joseph Prince said
Click to expand...
And here is what Joseph Prince wrote:

Do you know who David was describing when he said, “Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin”? (Rom.4:8) Since it’s clear that sin was imputed to David, he could not have been describing himself as some scholars claim. No, he was looking prophetically into the covenant of grace. He was describing you and me — a new generation of people who are under the covenant of grace!

What does “shall not impute sin” mean? Does it mean that you will never sin again? Did Jesus die on the cross to free us from committing sinful actions or harboring sinful thoughts? If He did, then allow me to conclude with reverence that He failed. You and I know fully well that we can still be tempted with sinful thoughts and tempted to commit sinful actions, and

˄ Page-57 ˄

there will still be times when we fail. Can you show me a man who is free from all temptations and who never fails?

My friend, when David described the blessed man as one to whom the Lord will not impute sin, he meant that even when this man sins, God will not count his sin against him, nor punish him for his iniquity. Too good to be true? That is why David defined this man as a blessed man. And this blessed man is you and me! Today, you are blessed because the Lord no longer counts your sins against you. Because of the cross
of Jesus, you will never be punished for your sins again. Your sins were imputed to Jesus, so that they would never be imputed to you. Under the new covenant of grace that was sealed with the blood of Jesus, God has already judged sin completely on the body of Jesus Christ. This means that even when you fall short of God’s holy standards, the punishment for sin will not fall on you. The wages of sin is death, but Jesus has already died on your behalf. Your sins have already been imputed to His account!

Today, you are blessed because the Lord no longer counts your sins against you. Because of the cross of Jesus,
you will never be punished for your sins again.
Click to expand...


The statement which offends you was made concerning Romans 4:8 (Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin) and no amount of obfuscation on your part will change that fact. :)



InSpiritInTruth said:
No amount of derailment tactics will smooth over the heresy of Joseph Princes statement above. If you want to start your own thread on Romans 4:8 be my guest, but Romans 4:8 is still not preaching a license to sin.
Click to expand...
Please provide the post submitted by me wherein I indicated Romans 4:8 is preaching a license to sin. Thank you.
 
reneweddaybyday said:

So I suppose we can conclude that ISIT follows the same instructions contained in 1 John 1:9 that the rest of us mere mortals follow.
Click to expand...

Errr, JP's followers don't believe confession of sin is necessary. :)

The word of God teaches---->>>>

1 John 1:9[SUP] "[/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."


JP teaches---->>>>
23-Confession of sins for believers is about “being open” with God, not about repentance because we are already forgiven
25-Confession of sin is unnecessary because we would have to confess all the time (inferring we would never stop sinning)
Click to expand...
 
reneweddaybyday said:

And here is what Joseph Prince wrote:
Please provide the post submitted by me wherein I indicated Romans 4:8 is preaching a license to sin. Thank you.
Click to expand...

You can quote his whole book and it does not make his many heretical teachings true. I can find tons of errors in his book, but the OP is not about a whole chapter or his book, but rather what Joseph Prince specifically said about Jesus failing in not being able to set people free from sin and sinning. And I did not say you said personally that Romans 4:8 promotes a license to sin now did I? I made a general statement to those who think since sin is not imputed then they can sin at will and still be saved, as this is also a common misconception among "hyper grace" believers. :)
 
InSpiritInTruth said:
Errr, JP's followers don't believe confession of sin is necessary.
Click to expand...
I am not a follower of JP.

I am a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ.



InSpiritInTruth said:
The word of God teaches---->>>>

1 John 1:9[SUP] "[/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Click to expand...
Yes, I am aware of the Truth written in 1 John 1.

Do you confess your sins to Father? He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. :)



InSpiritInTruth said:
JP teaches---->>>>
23-Confession of sins for believers is about “being open” with God, not about repentance because we are already forgiven
25-Confession of sin is unnecessary because we would have to confess all the time (inferring we would never stop sinning)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Please provide the link to your quote. Thank you.
 
InSpiritInTruth said:
You can quote his whole book and it does not make his many heretical teachings true. I can find tons of errors in his book, but the OP is not about a whole chapter or his book, but rather what Joseph Prince specifically said about Jesus failing in not being able to set people free from sin and sinning. And I did not say you said personally that Romans 4:8 promotes a license to sin now did I? I made a general statement to those who think since sin is not imputed then they can sin at will and still be saved, as this is also a common misconception among "hyper grace" believers. :)
Click to expand...

So I take it you are perfect. Because if not. according to your own accusation. Jesus failed. Because you still sin.
 
[h=1]Objection #4: Hyper-Grace Preachers Are Against Confession of Sin[/h]This is one of the most common misrepresentations of hyper-grace theology. The Biblical term “to confess” simply means “to speak the same thing as” or “to agree with.” We teach that confession is important because we should yield our minds to agreement with God about everything He reveals – including, but not limited to, sin.

What we often also teach (and this is where the rub is with some people) is that confession is not about triggering any transaction between us and God that would issue forth more forgiveness, as though God were dispensing forgiveness in various doses based upon our confessions. Forgiveness of sin is something that was provided objectively ONE time by ONE act of grace through ONE Savior who shed His blood on the cross for us 2000 years ago. As the book of Hebrews repeatedly emphasizes, He is the “once for all” sacrifice for sin.

Confession of sin then, is about humility and walking in agreement with God – not about getting more forgiveness from Him. Some will suggest that God’s forgiveness is dispensed using a “two-tiered” approach. On one level, they say, God has forgiven our sins judicially and objectively through the cross. On the second tier, however, we need to confess our sins in order to receive “relational” or“experiential” forgiveness in order to maintain close fellowship with God.

This two-tiered approach is nowhere taught in the New Testament, and has only been popularized because of two basic levels of rationale. The first is based upon a misinterpretation of two passages in the New Testament, both of which have been clearly explained in books and sermons by a host of solid gospel teachers.

These two passages are Matthew 6:12 (where Jesus appears to be commanding His followers to ask for God’s forgiveness) and 1 John 1:9 (which seems to link forgiveness to confession of sin).

In my book “TheGospel Uncut: Learning to Rest in the Grace of God” I deal with these passages quite clearly, as do other authors such as Bob George, Andrew Farley, Ralph Harris, Paul Ellis, Cathy Hildebrand and Andrew Nelson. I encourage you to investigate these writings for yourself in order to understand the context in which these passages were intended to be understood.

The bottom-line is this. We hyper-grace preachers DO value confession of sin. We also practice confession of sin in our own lives. However, we understand confession to be about agreeing with God concerning the foolishness of our sin rather than begging for forgiveness based upon a humanly-invented two-tiered approach to somehow "maintaining close fellowship" with Him.

Our fellowship with God was purchased unconditionally and irreversibly by Jesus at the cross. Once we receive that fellowship by simple faith in Christ, it is our eternal possession regardless of our recent performance or track-record. As I’ve written in my book, The Gospel Uncut:

"The way I now approach confession is to simply agree with God about the foolishness of my sin. I admit to Him that my sin hurts me as well as others and that it fails to bring glory to His Name. Often I am sorrowful over the foolishness of my actions. The Apostle Paul wrote that there is a “godly sorrow that brings repentance” (2 Cor. 10:7).

When I know I have sinned, I humbly admit that my sinful behavior is out of step with my new nature and identity in Him, and I ask Him to help me rest in His completed work. Now here comes the best part! After agreeing with God about my sin, I begin thanking Him for the fact that this sinful act was already forgiven at the cross.

Understanding these realities has literally transformed my practice of confession, changing the experience from a guilt-ridden begging session into a dynamic, worshipful encounter in which my conscious mind (and behavior) is realigned with the grace and truth of Jesus.

So yes! By all means confess your sin to God! Agree with Him about sin and everything else He has revealed. But don’t think of confession as a means of obtaining something that Jesus Christ died “once for all” to secure for you. Remember that confession is about humility and the ongoing renewal of the mind process – and never about getting something from God that is already yours in abundance through the finished work of Christ. If you are a believer in Christ, you are NEVER out of fellowship with God.

Fellowship is an identity issue, meaning that you now share "all things in common" with God as a joint-heir with Christ (Rom. 8:17)! This never has been and never will be based upon your behavioral performance and is not something that you must confess sin in order to have reinstated! Because of Christ, you are always clean and God is always close!
 
InSpiritInTruth said:
Still waiting Willie, lest ye be found a liar and false accuser like your brethren. :)
Click to expand...

See the last post. You as much said as much. By saying Jesus died to set people free from sin and sinning..

Of course that is the way you work. You post things to make everything think this is what you believe, Yet when confronted, You never come out and actually say.

Which should make everyone believe, all you wish to do is argue, and not actually discuss
 
Let's hear from the "horse's mouth" himself what he has to say about the confession of sins for the believer. This will stop any "twisting" of the self-proclaimed heretic hunters from happening.

Heretic hunters are notorious for "taking a quote" out of context = then giving their "synopsis" of what this means. In essence they are defining their own "application" to someone else's words.

Most grace believers believe that our sins are forgiven by the blood Christ and so confession of sins is NOT to "obtain" this forgiveness but the acknowledgment that sins were committed.

It is only 10 minutes long...:)

[video=youtube;RpUrua961Nk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpUrua961Nk[/video]
 
Last edited:
InSpiritInTruth said:
Still waiting Willie, lest ye be found a liar and false accuser like your brethren. :)
Click to expand...

It took you thirty minutes to come up with THAT? Was the question too hard?

I'll ask it again................. Do you sin? (Because that is what I keep saying you claim you no longer do.)
 
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Willie-T
I printed it all out, right here, for any of us to read, and showed the shameful trickery that was being attempted.
Click to expand...
Stephen63 said:
Ok, apparently I missed it. Can U tell me what post it was?
Click to expand...
Willie, are you going to show me that post, or not?
 
Willie-T said:
It took you thirty minutes to come up with THAT? Was the question too hard?

I'll ask it again................. Do you sin? (Because that is what I keep saying you claim you no longer do.)
Click to expand...

Its amazing he never answers that question. One must wonder why is is afraid..

either he believes it or not. If he is that weak in faith of his own status How can he expect to teach others.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back