Jesus warned us not too look for Him in Jerusalem

[eternally-gratefull]

Luke 24:27
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Luke 24:44-45
44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
Amazingly, they still did not know it would take Christ 2000+ years to come back and reign physically on earth for a 1000 years. It says all things concerning Jesus was discussed, and they eyes were opened, yet no mention of church gap, a 1000 year reign. Don't you think they want to let us know what Jesus said about it, give us a heads up? Unless, there is nothing written or to be said.

All things, Not just some things. Unless you want to make God make mistakes.

Why did God say he will come on a day (we know it as his return to earth) and when he comes, he will put boots on the ground (using a military term) and the mt of olives will split in two.

I will take Jesus (all things concerning the messiah MUST come true) and know that if it did not happen in the first advent, It is a still yet unfulfilled thing messiah must fulfill

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Could be that Jesus was speaking of the eternal state, in which even the creation is groaning until the final glorious redemption, while His disciples where thinking of a fleshy kingdom. Regardless, Jesus redirected their attention away from it's starting point and to encompass the whole world. Seems to me Christians are wanting to focus on the starting point, is this not contradictory to what Christ commanded?

No, Because people will not have children in the eternal state, God will not withhold rain from nations in the eternal state because a nation sins (fails to visit him in Jerusalem as commanded) and many other things the OT prophets spoke of concerning a time when Jesus will be king on earth and restore things to the natural way.

The OT did not lie about certain things, and the Apostles were not wrong for believing they would come true

Ther were just certain things which had to happen first.

 

[valiant]

All things, Not just some things. Unless you want to make God make mistakes.

God made no mistakes. you have

Why did God say he will come on a day (we know it as his return to earth) and when he comes, he will put boots on the ground (using a military term) and the mt of olives will split in two.

Actually He didn't say that. He said He (God) would stand on the mount of olives and cause it to split in two. And when God is depicted as acting it is not physical.. There is nothing about a return to earth or boots on the ground

I will take Jesus (all things concerning the messiah MUST come true) and know that if it did not happen in the first advent, It is a still yet unfulfilled thing messiah must fulfill

It didn't speak of the Messiah in Zech 14. That is YOUR misinterpretation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Prophecy was rarely fulfilled literally. LOL look at Matthew's 'fulfilments'. Few were fulfilled literally. You 'literalists' do not check the facts. The prophecies had to be 'interpreted'

Oh Boy.. Thanks, But you can have your unfulfilled/fulfilled prophecy.

The Old Testament prophecies were written from the vantage point of the Old Testament. They wrote in terms they KNEW. Read Isaiah's prophecies concerning Jerusalem. Over one third were incapable of literal fulfilment.

so they can not be fulfilled today? Jesus said all life on earth could be killed off. Yet that was not possible in his day, yet is more than possible today. Could jesus have spoken of a future event? Of course you spiritualists will never admit this is a possibility.

Because the old had to be done away so that the new kingly rule of God could be properly established. Jerusalem was no longer necessary for it (John 4.21-24). It had become a hindrance to the world wide Gospel and the worldwide kingly rule.

Jerusalem was never necessary God could have done what he did in another city, Jerusalem (as Daniel said in chapter 9 of his book) is special to God. It is his city, Did Daniel lie?

The physical kingdom was not prophesied anywhere in the New Testament. It was set aside for the spiritual even before the Gentiles became an issue. Jesus coming and founding of a new spiritual kingdom had rendered the Old Testament ideas in need of revision in the light of the New. They had to learn that a physical kingdom was an impossibility in Old Testament terms because the nation as a whole would never respond to God. Only those could enter it who were born again. They would form Jesus new congregation (Matth 16.18), new nation (Matth 21.43).,

Revelation. Romans 11.

next.

That was why Paul wrote the coming in of the full number of the Gentiles would mean 'all Israel' would be saved.

No paul did not say this, He said this is WHEN Israel will all be saved, Not that this is all be saved.

Isreal is blind in part UNTIL this time, THEN all Israel will be saved.

Israel in this context means the physical children of Bbraham Issaac and Jacob, not the spiritual children of abraham through Christ.

The problem with the Jews was that they thought they could be saved by their own righteousness, without a rebirth. Jesus made clear that they could not. It was only those who responded to Him from the heart Who would be saved. And that could never happen to a whole physical nation. He had in front of His eyes the new spiritual nation God would produce in the future made up of believing Jews and Gentile proselytes, what He and we call the congregation of God.

So God can not save a whole nation? Oh ye of little faith. DO you reallise what you just said?

You know whats funny, The rejection of God by isreal and God giving the kingdom to Gentiles was prophesied..

I am sure you will not deny this,, (paul even mentioned it in romans 9 and 10)

But the OT also prophesies Israel will repent, and be restored.

You like 1/2 of the prophesy, But hate the other half..

It all must come true. or God is a liar.

No good at all lol. So He wouldn't waste his time. Only the few will be saved.

In that senerio I gave, no one would be saved, all would be lost. How could a few be saved if God did not take care of the sin problem?

So Jesus prophesied wrongly in Matt 21.43? He never spoke of Israel being restored. He spoke of the new nation of Israel that would arise as a result of His teaching and His death and resurrection. That new nation came to its own at Pentecost. For a number of years it consisted of Jews only, until God opened Peter's eyes to see that it was for ALL. He made of two one new man, the church.

The church does not replace the OT prophecies of Isreal, who in sin were scattered all over the earth, then in a day of rentance, restored to her place.

Please..

Or are you saying that the BELIEVING Jews were no longer Israel. That that privilege belonged to unbelieving Jews?

I believe Isreal was blinded in part. Meaning some were saved, many were not. But one day, when the time of the gentile is complete, All Israel will be saved (the blindness will be removed)

You mean you do not interpret them this way? Jesus and the Apostles did. They never spoke of a new earthly Jerusalem. To them Jerusalem was now first in Jesus (John 2.19-21), then in Heaven (Gal 4.20 ff; Heb 12.20-22; Revelation 21). Don't you believe the NT? The old had passed away, the new had come.

1. The old never saved anyone
2. Israel being in her land never saved anyone
3. Israel receiving the promises never saved anyone
4. Israel being restored will never save anyone.

why are you trying to mix the old way with the promise God made to a nation of people? they do not mix, nor are they reliant on each other. This is proven by the fact Israel continually disobeyed the covenant, Yet God allowed them to live in there land until AD 70 when according to lev 26, He said enough is enough, I promised to bless you, But I also promised to punish you.

where in the Hebrew scripture does it say He will rule them with a rod of iron? it says He will BREAK THEM with a rod of iron and parallels this with smashing them in pieces like a potter's vessel. The NT renders this 'he will shepherd them with a rod of iron'. Do you know why a shepherd carried a rod of iron? To smash wild beasts with.

Stalin, Hitler, Huessein, Just three of these "wild animals" who were not held in check, whos ruthless and evil tendancies were (in at least two cases) were felt worldwide.


and this list would be almost endless of these evil LEADERS the past 2000 plus years since Christ left.

Yep. God is usin ghis rod of iron to stamp out evil now..

smh!!

The so called millennium kingdom on earth (NEVER SPOKEN OF IN THE NEW TESTAMENT) will very much not be a place where the sin issue is dealt with. It is going back to the old physical kingdom which was a failure. It is supposed to have in it a mixture of ordinary people and resurrected people, and it ends with the king being almost overcome and having to appeal to Heaven for help. YOUR Jesus has lost his power. Presumably he was unaware of it coming in spite of it being prophesied. Doesn't sound very likely to me..

The Bible knows nothing of resurrected saints living on earth
,
.

Revelation is the NT

so again, You are wrong.

second, the nt does not have to say EVERYTHING about the OT prophets.. The NT concerned buidling up a new church and helping them on the way, Not telling them about future events, (although revelation did do this)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God made no mistakes. you have



Actually He didn't say that. He said He (God) would stand on the mount of olives and cause it to split in two. And when God is depicted as acting it is not physical.. There is nothing about a return to earth or boots on the ground



It didn't speak of the Messiah in Zech 14. That is YOUR misinterpretation.

or your misinterpretation.

if all you have is I misinterpreted. You have nothing.

 

[valiant]

Oh Boy.. Thanks, But you can have your unfulfilled/fulfilled prophecy.

I prefer to believe Jesus and the Apostles in their interpretation. Gong back to a physical separate Israel is to deny Ephesians (2.11-22) where God made both ONE. It is also to sideline the purposes of God.

so they can not be fulfilled today? Jesus said all life on earth could be killed off. Yet that was not possible in his day, yet is more than possible today. Could jesus have spoken of a future event? Of course you spiritualists will never admit this is a possibility.

It was feasible in His day. But Jesus did not say that all life would be killed off, before He did it at the end of time. He merely pointed out that the future was bleak. It was bleak in His day. The 1st century saw appalling disasters both military and natural. Read Tacitus. It would be equally bleak through the centuries. But God will NEVER allow all life to be killed off. That is your opinion based on a wrong interpretation of Revelation. His kingly rule will triumph to the end.

Jerusalem was never necessary God could have done what he did in another city, Jerusalem (as Daniel said in chapter 9 of his book) is special to God. It is his city, Did Daniel lie?

Daniel pointed out that it would be finally destroyed in 70 ad as far as God was concerned. It is no longer special to God. He gave His opinion of it in Gal 4.20 ff. Satan as kept alive the myth of Jerusalem for his purposes. He has you hood winked

Revelation. Romans 11.

next.

There is no mention of a physical Jerusalem as being God's city in either Revelation or Romans. No wonder you had no answer.

No paul did not say this, He said this is WHEN Israel will all be saved, Not that this is all be saved.

He said they are not all Israel who are Israel (Rom 9.6). He goes on to point out that there is a remnant of Israel which will have Gentiles grafted in so that they BECOME Israel (Rom 11.12-24). Paul nowhere mentions Jerusalem or an earthly Israel reigning on earth. He must have forgotten it LOL

Isreal is blind in part UNTIL this time, THEN all Israel will be saved.

If this means all natural Israel it contradicts 9.27, only a remnant will be saved.

Israel in this context means the physical children of Bbraham Issaac and Jacob, not the spiritual children of abraham through Christ.

They are NOT all Israel who are Israel (9.6). And if Israel means physical blood descendants of Abraham most Jews are excluded, They are not physical Blood descendants of Abraham. It is wishful thinking, READ THE SCRIPTURES. Some were born of the large number of servants Abraham had. Others were born of the mixed multitude (Ex 12.38).. Others were descended from pagans who became Israelites (Ex 12.48). Others were born of Edomite or Gentile stock who were forced to become Israelites under for example, Hyrcanus or Aristobulus . The Jews were very mixed race. If it just means a taint of Abraham, most of us have a taint of Abraham. So who are physical descended from Abraham.?

So God can not save a whole nation? Oh ye of little faith. DO you reallise what you just said?

He never has done. And the assumption is He will go on like that. Only those who believe will be saved. He will not force it on any nation, especially one of mixed blood like Israel.

You know whats funny, The rejection of God by isreal and God giving the kingdom to Gentiles was prophesied..

I am sure you will not deny this,, (paul even mentioned it in romans 9 and 10)

In Rom 9-11 He promises that gentiles will become a part of the olive tree that is Israel (Jer 11.16). You have misunderstood Rom 9-11.

But the OT also prophesies Israel will repent, and be restored.

It nowhere says that Israel as a whole will repent and be restored. It only promises the remnant. See Rom 9.

You like 1/2 of the prophesy, But hate the other half..

you mean you only accept half and ignore the rest.

It all must come true. or God is a liar.

what must all come true? Your interpretation. You americans are too fond of calling God a liar if He doesn't agree with you, I would be careful if I were you.

In that senerio I gave, no one would be saved, all would be lost. How could a few be saved if God did not take care of the sin problem?

but your scenario is NOT God's

The church does not replace the OT prophecies of Isreal, who in sin were scattered all over the earth, then in a day of rentance, restored to her place.

Please..

Israel were restored after the Exile. But they failed again, Then God produced His new nation, the congregation or church.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

God made no mistakes. you have

Actually He didn't say that. He said He (God) would stand on the mount of olives and cause it to split in two. And when God is depicted as acting it is not physical.. There is nothing about a return to earth or boots on the ground

It didn't speak of the Messiah in Zech 14. That is YOUR misinterpretation

.

or your misinterpretation.

if all you have is I misinterpreted. You have nothing.

Funnily enough I am taking it literally LOL You are having to read n what isn't there. Let anyone read and see.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I prefer to believe Jesus and the Apostles in their interpretation. Gong back to a physical separate Israel is to deny Ephesians (2.11-22) where God made both ONE. It is also to sideline the purposes of God.

1. They already were one, All people who came to God by faith were one in Christ in the old and the new,, (did you know king davids grandmother was a gentile?? )
2. Gods promise concerning the nation of Israel had nothing to do with salvation. So please. Stop trying to mix them, That is where YOUR INTERPRETATION is flawed.

It was feasible in His day.

Oh, So tell me, what man held great power he could kill off all life on earth. what would happen, the last two solders alive take their sword and fight it until the death? Please!!

but Jesus did not say that all life would be killed off, before He did it at the end of time. He merely pointed out that the future was bleak. It was bleak in His day. The 1st century saw appalling disasters both military and natural. Read Tacitus. It would be equally bleak through the centuries. But God will NEVER allow all life to be killed off. That is your opinion based on a wrong interpretation of Revelation. His kingly rule will triumph to the end.

Jesus said plainly, if he did not return, NO FLESH WOULD SURVIVE.

That means all live on earth, not just human life. would survive what woudl happen if God let it go on.

Daniel pointed out that it would be finally destroyed in 70 ad as far as God was concerned. It is no longer special to God. He gave His opinion of it in Gal 4.20 ff. Satan as kept alive the myth of Jerusalem for his purposes. He has you hood winked

1. Daniel prayed to God. a prayer for his people. that god would have mercy on HIS people and HIS holy city.
2. Gabriel told Daniel the city would be destroyed in 70 ad, and it would remain that way until a time determined by God himself..

There is no mention of a physical Jerusalem as being God's city in either Revelation or Romans. No wonder you had no answer.

the context of daniels 70 weeks....

Dan 9: [SUP]16 [/SUP]“O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate.

Next....

He said they are not all Israel who are Israel (Rom 9.6). He goes on to point out that there is a remnant of Israel which will have Gentiles grafted in so that they BECOME Israel (Rom 11.12-24). Paul nowhere mentions Jerusalem or an earthly Israel reigning on earth. He must have forgotten it LOL

Paul said ALL isreal will be saved, Paul also said they (isreal) are my enemy, Is the church your enemy Valient? Can you really sit there and tell me you read Romans 11 and not see this major point?

romans 11: [SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all Israel will be saved,[SUP][g][/SUP] as it is written:“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For this is My covenant with them,When I take away their sins.”[SUP][h][/SUP]


[SUP]28 [/SUP]Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake

If "all Isreal" as you claim is the church, You just called the church YOUR ENEMY!

If this means all natural Israel it contradicts 9.27, only a remnant will be saved.

No, 9: 27 says there will always be a remnant. There is no need for a remnant if God is done with a nation, the fact God says there will always be a remnant, PROVES god is not done with them as a nation. otherwise, he would let them die and cease to exist.

They are NOT all Israel who are Israel (9.6). And if Israel means physical blood descendants of Abraham most Jews are excluded, They are not physical Blood descendants of Abraham. It is wishful thinking, READ THE SCRIPTURES. Some were born of the large number of servants Abraham had. Others were born of the mixed multitude (Ex 12.38).. Others were descended from pagans who became Israelites (Ex 12.48). Others were born of Edomite or Gentile stock who were forced to become Israelites under for example, Hyrcanus or Aristobulus . The Jews were very mixed race. If it just means a taint of Abraham, most of us have a taint of Abraham. So who are physical descended from Abraham.?

Roman 9 is concerning the unbelief of Isreal. Not the restorationof Isreal. Two seperate events.. You can not use romans 9 to interpret romans 11.

He never has done. And the assumption is He will go on like that. Only those who believe will be saved. He will not force it on any nation, especially one of mixed blood like Israel.

Who said God forces? Get real man, Your excuses are gettin worse.

In Rom 9-11 He promises that gentiles will become a part of the olive tree that is Israel (Jer 11.16). You have misunderstood Rom 9-11.

No you have, because you try to use romans 9 to interpret romans 11..

Romans 9 is to prove that being a child of Isreal does not mean you get an automatic in, and that gentiles were prophesied in the OT to be part of the promise of grace.

Rm 11 answers the question, Is God done with Isreal.

2 different context.

Your the one who got it all messed up

It nowhere says that Israel as a whole will repent and be restored. It only promises the remnant. See Rom 9.

Rom 11, All Isreal will be saved, At this time, they are your enemy,

Stop it, your making yourself look bad.

you mean you only accept half and ignore the rest.

Your the one who did that (smh)

what must all come true? Your interpretation. You americans are too fond of calling God a liar if He doesn't agree with you, I would be careful if I were you.

If God said this will happen.

and it does not happen,

God is a liar.

anyone is a liar who makes a stament that is not fact.

get over yourself

but your scenario is NOT God's

keep believing that, thats your right. it does not make it true

Israel were restored after the Exile. But they failed again, Then God produced His new nation, the congregation or church.

Boy you have a hatred don't you.

news flash, Lev 26 is just as relevant today as it was when God gave it to moses.

God did not make a new church, He gave control of it over to the gentile. but it is the same church,

All who are saved by faith belong to it.

 

[valiant]

The church does not replace the OT prophecies of Isreal, who in sin were scattered all over the earth, then in a day of rentance, restored to her place.

Please..

That restoration occurred after the Exile. But they failed again.

The church is the true Israel that repented, the remnant which were enhanced by Gentile proselytes. The false unbelieving Israel were cut off.

I believe Isreal was blinded in part. Meaning some were saved, many were not. But one day, when the time of the gentile is complete, All Israel will be saved (the blindness will be removed)

How can the blindness be removed from those long dead? But in view of the fact that Paul has stated 'not all are of Israel who are Israel' (9.6), the 'all Israel' could be the true Israel, the election of Israel. or it could mean all Israel (including Gentiles) per 11.12-24.

1. The old never saved anyone
2. Israel being in her land never saved anyone
3. Israel receiving the promises never saved anyone
4. Israel being restored will never save anyone.

Good. You have agreed that physical Israel never saved anyone. That is a beginning. Why would God try again what has already failed? Jesus succeeded with the true Israel which included those who had been Gentiles. And this included Gentile proselytes as Israel ALWAYS HAD.. That is why some thought circumcision was necessary. Pau replied they have been circumcised -- by the cross.

why are you trying to mix the old way with the promise God made to a nation of people?

The old physical way was to prove that would not work. God brought forth His own descendants of Abraham (Gal 3.29).

they do not mix, nor are they reliant on each other. This is proven by the fact Israel continually disobeyed the covenant,

And God finally finished with them unless they were willing to join the new spiritual Israel ( Rom 11.12-24).

Yet God allowed them to live in there land until AD 70 when according to lev 26, He said enough is enough, I promised to bless you, But I also promised to punish you.

It doesn't mention 70 AD. This happened at the Exile and continued on except for a minority. God gave the Jews a generation in which to repent and join His new people. Then He finally cut them off. But true Israel continued in those who believed in the Messiah, the church.

Stalin, Hitler, Huessein, Just three of these "wild animals" who were not held in check, whos ruthless and evil tendancies were (in at least two cases) were felt worldwide.

Hitler was not worldwide. Japan was not Hitler. Hussein was a minor player. Stalin only affected his surrounding nations., You exaggerate.

and this list would be almost endless of these evil LEADERS the past 2000 plus years since Christ left.

And there will be many more. But none worldwide.

Yep. God is usin ghis rod of iron to stamp out evil now..

true but he was speaking of the final judgment,

 

[valiant]

1. They already were one, All people who came to God by faith were one in Christ in the old and the new,, (did you know king davids grandmother was a gentile?? )

So the people of God were ONE. We agree on that. God's purpose was not for Israel but for ALL. But how then do you explain that He made the two one in Ephesians 2.12-22.

2. Gods promise concerning the nation of Israel had nothing to do with salvation. So please. Stop trying to mix them, That is where YOUR INTERPRETATION is flawed.

God is only interested in the salvation of men and the eternal kingdom. He is not interested In your bye products. That is were YOU go wrong. The Bible begins with the fall of men and ends with His more than restitution. The rest tells us how He did it,,

 

[valiant]

Oh, So tell me, what man held great power he could kill off all life on earth. what would happen, the last two solders alive take their sword and fight it until the death? Please!!

Alas poor interpretation again

Jesus said plainly, if he did not return, NO FLESH WOULD SURVIVE.

He was talking of the great tribulation coming on the Jews. He was pointing out that the Jews wold be wiped out unless God intervened for His elect's sake.

That means all live on earth, not just human life. would survive what woudl happen if God let it go on.

The context was on the Jews. They would be wiped out by anti-Semitism unless He intervened. Its so simple.

 

[oldethennew]

ISA. 24:23.
Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of Hosts
shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients gloriously.

 

[valiant]

1. Daniel prayed to God. a prayer for his people. that god would have mercy on HIS people and HIS holy city.
2. Gabriel told Daniel the city would be destroyed in 70 ad, and it would remain that way until a time determined by God himself..

Daniel was praying for Jerusalem to be restored after seventy years. And so it was. But then he was informed of seventy sevens which God purposed. And near the end of the seventy sevens Jerusalem would be destroyed again. The offerings and sacrifices would cease.

WE KNOW WHY. God had offered a greater sacrifice than they, so that Jerusalem with its sacrifices was no longer required. And the abominating desolator would make desolate until he received his decreed end. And so it happened. No mention of Jerusalem which had been rendered unnecessary.

the context of daniels 70 weeks....

Dan 9: [SUP]16 [/SUP]“O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate.

No .that was the context of the seventy years. And God restored Jerusalem in 445 bc.

Next....

NEXT God revealed more than Daniel expected. The seventy sevens. He took him up to the Messiah whose death rendered the sanctuary unnecessary.

Paul said ALL isreal will be saved, Paul also said they (isreal) are my enemy, Is the church your enemy Valient? Can you really sit there and tell me you read Romans 11 and not see this major point?

The Israel that would be saved was the elect Israel including the ex-Gentiles who had joined with them in God's Israel. The Israel who rejected God were His enemies. The election of Israel were beloved for the fathers sakes. READ THE TEXT.

romans 11: [SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all Israel will be saved,[SUP][g][/SUP] as it is written:“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For this is My covenant with them,When I take away their sins.”[SUP][h][/SUP]

This is the application of the OT promise to the new situation.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake

If "all Isreal" as you claim is the church, You just called the church YOUR ENEMY!

The old Israel were the enemies, the election were beloved. Simple really.

No, 9: 27 says there will always be a remnant. There is no need for a remnant if God is done with a nation, the fact God says there will always be a remnant, PROVES god is not done with them as a nation. otherwise, he would let them die and cease to exist.

No it proves He still had purposes for SOME of the nation, the remnant. How does it prove He had not done with them as a whole nation? The case is the exact opposite.

Roman 9 is concerning the unbelief of Isreal. Not the restorationof Isreal. Two seperate events.. You can not use romans 9 to interpret romans 11.

Romans 9-11 is all one argument. There are no chapter divisions in Paul's letter. Didn't you know that?

Who said God forces? Get real man, Your excuses are gettin worse.

The whole nation would only repent if they were forced to do so. Come on, Get real.

No you have, because you try to use romans 9 to interpret romans 11..

You must interpret them together. Forget the chapter divisions. Roman 11 begins 'I ask then.' A clear continuation phrase.

Romans 9 is to prove that being a child of Isreal does not mean you get an automatic in, and that gentiles were prophesied in the OT to be part of the promise of grace.

Romans 9 shows that only the elect of Israel were saved and that this would be along with the Gentiles who were chosen. This theme continues in chapter 11.

Rm 11 answers the question, Is God done with Isreal.

2 different context.

Totally wrong. Why then does it contain Israel as an olive tree rejecting the unbelieving Jews and accepting the believing Gentiles (12-24)? This led up to 'all (the true elect) Israel will be saved'..

Your the one who got it all messed up

you sure have.

Rom 11, All Isreal will be saved, At this time, they are your enemy,

Twisting Scripture again. Only the election are beloved by God. The rest are rejected,

Stop it, your making yourself look bad.

LOL LOL

If God said this will happen.

and it does not happen,

God is a liar.

anyone is a liar who makes a stament that is not fact.

It is you who said it would happen not God. God expects us recognise that the old must be interpreted by the new. It is YOU and your way of interpreting who makes God potentially a liar. Don't say you have not been warned

Boy you have a hatred don't you.

what a childish thing to say,

news flash, Lev 26 is just as relevant today as it was when God gave it to moses.

God did not make a new church, He gave control of it over to the gentile. but it is the same church,

All who are saved by faith belong to it.

So at last you agree that Israel is the church. well done.

 

[valiant]

ISA. 24:23.
Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of Hosts
shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients gloriously.

the new unearthly Jerusalem rev 21.

 

[eph610]

found it

Zech 14: 3, Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.[SUP][a][/SUP]

This also rightly divides with Acts 1...the angel told the disciples he would return as he left, and Jesus ascended from the Mount of Olives, or Mt. Olivet...

 

[Adstar]

A king who is ruling on earth is responsible for the people under him. That is WHY he is ruling. He cannot stand by and see many of them (quite innocent) decimated by other members of his kingdom, especially when he knows it is gong to happen. Yet you say he was total unprepared? RIDICULOUS.

God was not ruling on earth. He designated man for that purpose. But JESUS WAS. And we know nothing about the angels that fell. Lucifer is nowhere mentioned in the Hebrew Bible.

Have you ever considered that it would be Gods will to give people over to deception and delusion?? Have a read of the following scriptures:::

2 Thessalonians 2: KJV
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

John 12: KJV
37 ¶But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

 

[Adstar]

I prefer to believe Jesus and the Apostles in their interpretation. Gong back to a physical separate Israel is to deny Ephesians (2.11-22) where God made both ONE. It is also to sideline the purposes of God.

Why should the return of Jesus and a 1000 year kingdom on earth mean that Gentiles and Jews are separated? Yes we are made one in Christ.. Why do you assume that a 1000 year physical kingdom would mean a separation of the Saints? Who is even saying there is going to be a separation of the Saints? Where are you getting this impression from?

Very confusing.. I have no idea where this idea is coming from..

 

[RobbyEarl]

Why should the return of Jesus and a 1000 year kingdom on earth mean that Gentiles and Jews are separated? Yes we are made one in Christ.. Why do you assume that a 1000 year physical kingdom would mean a separation of the Saints? Who is even saying there is going to be a separation of the Saints? Where are you getting this impression from?

Very confusing.. I have no idea where this idea is coming from..

Me either for every knee shall bow and evry tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Amen

 

[Bookends]

All things, Not just some things. Unless you want to make God make mistakes.

Why did God say he will come on a day (we know it as his return to earth) and when he comes, he will put boots on the ground (using a military term) and the mt of olives will split in two.

I will take Jesus (all things concerning the messiah MUST come true) and know that if it did not happen in the first advent, It is a still yet unfulfilled thing messiah must fulfill

1st coming, splitting mnt of Olives in two is figurative. We know from scripture that mountains or hill have a figurative meaning. What is split in two is not the physical mountain, but the people of Israel, some will follow Him, and some won't.

All things in the OT concerning His first coming and His work of redemption that the Father laid our for Him. Jesus made the decree/prophecy He was coming back again, and NT writers, I'm not so sure the OT really mentions this. If you know the prophecy in OT of Jesus' second coming, post it and lets look at it.

 

[Bookends]

No, Because people will not have children in the eternal state, God will not withhold rain from nations in the eternal state because a nation sins (fails to visit him in Jerusalem as commanded) and many other things the OT prophets spoke of concerning a time when Jesus will be king on earth and restore things to the natural way.

The OT did not lie about certain things, and the Apostles were not wrong for believing they would come true

Ther were just certain things which had to happen first.

Jesus said nothing about having Children when He left the disciples at His ascension.