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Revelation 1:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.
In the case of the scripture talked about in Rev. 2:1-6 it was Ephesus. - one of seven churches mentioned
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Revelation 1:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.
In the case of the scripture talked about in Rev. 2:1-6 it was Ephesus. - one of seven churches mentioned
Originally Posted by Grace777x70
I know right off the bat that it is not talking about individuals but the lampstand is the whole church. It would appear to be talking about the light as a church in an area. We can see this has happened in many places in the past. Look at the great English churches that are now empty.
Revelation 1:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.
In the case of the scripture talked about in Rev. 2:1-6 it was Ephesus. - one of seven churches mentioned
Revelation 1:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.
In the case of the scripture talked about in Rev. 2:1-6 it was Ephesus. - one of seven churches mentioned
Welllll, ... Since various pastors have posted videos on youtube, that must be true, then, right??? !!! ...... 
You say that we have people believing osas 'stuff' thinking they can do anything and they are saved.
And you say this is very dangerous, but it's not important enough to remember any of these pastors names so we can talk to them and verify what they teach so we can correct them if need be.
And what do you mean by 'DO anything?' Do mean certain sins in particular?
Are they saved by what they DON'T do? And do they then 'lose their salvation' by what they DO do? (ok, no jokes )
Come onnnnn, YOU know better. You know we're saved by grace, right? And that it's a gift, right?
Be of good cheer, friend....Jesus has overcome the world. He conquered sin, the devil, and death, and no one can take His victory away from Him, or from those He gives it too! And that includes you and me, brother. Praise the Lord!
You say that we have people believing osas 'stuff' thinking they can do anything and they are saved.
And you say this is very dangerous, but it's not important enough to remember any of these pastors names so we can talk to them and verify what they teach so we can correct them if need be.
And what do you mean by 'DO anything?' Do mean certain sins in particular?
Are they saved by what they DON'T do? And do they then 'lose their salvation' by what they DO do? (ok, no jokes
)Come onnnnn, YOU know better. You know we're saved by grace, right? And that it's a gift, right?
Be of good cheer, friend....Jesus has overcome the world. He conquered sin, the devil, and death, and no one can take His victory away from Him, or from those He gives it too! And that includes you and me, brother. Praise the Lord!
Welllll, ... Since various pastors have posted videos on youtube, that must be true, then, right??? !!! ...... You say that we have people believing osas 'stuff' thinking they can do anything and they are saved. And you say this is very dangerous, but it's not important enough to remember any of these pastors names so we can talk to them and verify what they teach so we can correct them if need be. And what do you mean by 'DO anything?' Do mean certain sins in particular? Are they saved by what they DON'T do? And do they then 'lose their salvation' by what they DO do? (ok, no jokes ) Come onnnnn, YOU know better. You know we're saved by grace, right? And that it's a gift, right? Be of good cheer, friend....Jesus has overcome the world. He conquered sin, the devil, and death, and no one can take His victory away from Him, or from those He gives it too! And that includes you and me, brother. Praise the Lord!
You say that we have people believing osas 'stuff' thinking they can do anything and they are saved. And you say this is very dangerous, but it's not important enough to remember any of these pastors names so we can talk to them and verify what they teach so we can correct them if need be. And what do you mean by 'DO anything?' Do mean certain sins in particular? Are they saved by what they DON'T do? And do they then 'lose their salvation' by what they DO do? (ok, no jokes ) Come onnnnn, YOU know better. You know we're saved by grace, right? And that it's a gift, right? Be of good cheer, friend....Jesus has overcome the world. He conquered sin, the devil, and death, and no one can take His victory away from Him, or from those He gives it too! And that includes you and me, brother. Praise the Lord!
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Has it not been said repeatedly that lots of people and even the enemy use scripture to support all kinds of things?
Why does it bother you if some ppl want to believe that Jesus saved them.
I apologize for assuming He saved you too.
Why do you assume I or others want to go out and murder innocent ppl and die in the process?
That doesn't sound like something a person who Jesus saved would want to do.
There is a religion that has many adherents that choose to do that, but they believe they are obeying their own (false) god/prophet/book, and don't claim to be saved by the God of the Bible, Jesus Christ.
If that's the god you believe in, please know Jesus will forgive you and save you if you ask Him too.
The fact of the matter, like you said, is many ppl abuse God's grace, by claiming the sacrifice Jesus paid for them on the cross isn't good enough to save them.
Why does it bother you if some ppl want to believe that Jesus saved them.
I apologize for assuming He saved you too.
Why do you assume I or others want to go out and murder innocent ppl and die in the process?
That doesn't sound like something a person who Jesus saved would want to do.
There is a religion that has many adherents that choose to do that, but they believe they are obeying their own (false) god/prophet/book, and don't claim to be saved by the God of the Bible, Jesus Christ.
If that's the god you believe in, please know Jesus will forgive you and save you if you ask Him too.
The fact of the matter, like you said, is many ppl abuse God's grace, by claiming the sacrifice Jesus paid for them on the cross isn't good enough to save them.
Who said anything about it bothering me? You can believe in whatever doctrine you want, it's your soul. I didn't assume you wanted to harm ppl I said that as an example. According to the doctrine you believe you can go take the mark of the beast & still be saved. May God have mercy on those who actually believe that. Again you can believe in whatever you desire to.
Wow you really like to impose your assumptions on others and try to declare them as facts, don't you?!
Your words: 'According to the doctrine you believe, you can go take the mark of the beast and still be saved'.
Pretty arrogant of you, trying to tell me what doctrine I believe!
And where do you get off with the cheap accusation that I EVER even implied, let alone stated, that someone could take the mark of the beast and still be saved?
The Lord Jesus Christ is my God and Savior. If you ask Him, He'll save you, too.
Until then there's no reason to talk with you any further, but in spite of your smart remark, I'll still extend a hand of friendship, and be happy to rejoice with you if and when you get saved.
I'll leave you with that to think about.
Your words: 'According to the doctrine you believe, you can go take the mark of the beast and still be saved'.
Pretty arrogant of you, trying to tell me what doctrine I believe!
And where do you get off with the cheap accusation that I EVER even implied, let alone stated, that someone could take the mark of the beast and still be saved?
The Lord Jesus Christ is my God and Savior. If you ask Him, He'll save you, too.
Until then there's no reason to talk with you any further, but in spite of your smart remark, I'll still extend a hand of friendship, and be happy to rejoice with you if and when you get saved.
I'll leave you with that to think about.
P
The Parable of the Talents
14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them.15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also.18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.
20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’
24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, thereyou have what is yours.’
26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.
29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Once saved always saved?
14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them.15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also.18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.
20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’
24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, thereyou have what is yours.’
26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.
29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Once saved always saved?
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Did you read the wall of words I referenced to in my blog? I'd post them here but most people won't wade thru it because of it's length. Oh and, it's about 95% God's words. Very few of mine.
If you haven't read it, then I guess you're not listening. And listening is only half of it. You have to consider what you are listening to.
If you haven't read it, then I guess you're not listening. And listening is only half of it. You have to consider what you are listening to.
Oh what the heck...
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1. We are free to believe or disbelieve according to our own free will.
Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve
[Deu 30:15 NKJV] "See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,
[Deu 30:19 NKJV] "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
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2. Righteousness/Salvation is based upon belief/faith.
3. Belief and faith are not acts of works.
4. We are not saved by acts of works.
Romans 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. [SUP]“[/SUP]
4Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works
13It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.
18Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”[SUP]d[/SUP] 19Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.
Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. It’s a gift of God and not of works, let any man should boast.
Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved”
"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
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5. Works are a reliable discerner of salvation
James 2:
14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[SUP]d[/SUP] ? 21Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[SUP]e[/SUP] and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
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6. Once His, God will never turn us away because of our works
John 3:15-16 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 6:37-39 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise [never] cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
2 Corinthians 1:22 And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Philippians 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
1 John 5:10-13 Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.
Hebrews 7:24-25 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them..
2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
Jude 24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Romans 8:29-30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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7. Even when saved we retain our right to believe/disbelieve
Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve
[Deu 30:15 NKJV] "See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,
[Deu 30:19 NKJV] "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
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8. By disbelief (apostasy) one can turn themselves away from salvation
"keep yourselves in the love of God" Jude 1:21.
1 Jn 3:10 "...whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God
Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
2 Peter 1:10-11 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Colossians 1:22-23 In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister
2 Peter 1:5-9 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
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9. Disbelief is not an act of works
(See nos. 2/3/4 above).
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10. Salvation is not lost by works.
(See no. 6 above)
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11. Salvation is lost by disbelief
(See no. 8 above)
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1. We are free to believe or disbelieve according to our own free will.
Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve
[Deu 30:15 NKJV] "See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,
[Deu 30:19 NKJV] "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
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2. Righteousness/Salvation is based upon belief/faith.
3. Belief and faith are not acts of works.
4. We are not saved by acts of works.
Romans 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. [SUP]“[/SUP]
4Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works
13It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.
18Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”[SUP]d[/SUP] 19Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.
Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. It’s a gift of God and not of works, let any man should boast.
Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved”
"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
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5. Works are a reliable discerner of salvation
James 2:
14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[SUP]d[/SUP] ? 21Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[SUP]e[/SUP] and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
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6. Once His, God will never turn us away because of our works
John 3:15-16 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 6:37-39 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise [never] cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
2 Corinthians 1:22 And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Philippians 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
1 John 5:10-13 Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.
Hebrews 7:24-25 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them..
2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
Jude 24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Romans 8:29-30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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7. Even when saved we retain our right to believe/disbelieve
Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve
[Deu 30:15 NKJV] "See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,
[Deu 30:19 NKJV] "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
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8. By disbelief (apostasy) one can turn themselves away from salvation
"keep yourselves in the love of God" Jude 1:21.
1 Jn 3:10 "...whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God
Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
2 Peter 1:10-11 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Colossians 1:22-23 In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister
2 Peter 1:5-9 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
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9. Disbelief is not an act of works
(See nos. 2/3/4 above).
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10. Salvation is not lost by works.
(See no. 6 above)
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11. Salvation is lost by disbelief
(See no. 8 above)
As I have stated repeatedly you can believe in whatever doctrine you want you seem to not comprehend that. You talk about me making assumptions when your indicating as if im not saved because don't believe in some once saved always saved false doctrine. I replied to another person yet your the one answering & defending it as if you follow it. Now you claim you don't follow it which is pretty amusing. I accepted christ in my life along time ago. That's good you accepted him perhaps he can lead you away from any false doctrines you may or may not follow.
There is a fundamental flaw in understanding what the nature of salvation is here that leads to the thought that it can be 'lost' - the salvation of God is not mere behavior modification or a 'decision' that a mortal man makes. it is actual, literal redemption, and by the hand of God, transformation into an actual, literal, new creation.
'osas' is a misrepresentation of reality. it's phrased and described as though 'salvation' is little more than responding positively to altar call in a way that is completely contingent on the human will and then all responsibility in every ensuing aspect also rests completely on the will of the human, God Himself playing almost no part, and any real, miraculous work of the Lord on the human heart is fleeting and temporary at best, or utterly non-existent at worst, wholly dependent again on human desire and will.
[HR][/HR]
But salvation is not by the desire or will or effort of man, but the Lords mercy.
But Christ is real. He is the Author and Finisher and the Beginning and the End.
[HR][/HR]
If He is faithful and He began a literal, actual good work in you - will He finish it? Will He leave it to you, unequipped and unable, to finish it yourself as He watches with divine curiosity?
What we are asking is whether redemption is real or not, and whether it is an act of God or of humankind.
'osas' is a misrepresentation of reality. it's phrased and described as though 'salvation' is little more than responding positively to altar call in a way that is completely contingent on the human will and then all responsibility in every ensuing aspect also rests completely on the will of the human, God Himself playing almost no part, and any real, miraculous work of the Lord on the human heart is fleeting and temporary at best, or utterly non-existent at worst, wholly dependent again on human desire and will.
[HR][/HR]
But salvation is not by the desire or will or effort of man, but the Lords mercy.
But Christ is real. He is the Author and Finisher and the Beginning and the End.
[HR][/HR]
If He is faithful and He began a literal, actual good work in you - will He finish it? Will He leave it to you, unequipped and unable, to finish it yourself as He watches with divine curiosity?
What we are asking is whether redemption is real or not, and whether it is an act of God or of humankind.
My comprehension is just fine, now you're just trying to be an antagonistic little dweeb. You keep insisting that 'OnceSavedAlwaysSaved' is some sort of doctrine, and you keep insisting that it's false, based upon the opinions of a couple of your boyfriends on a youtube video.
You boast that you 'accepted Christ into your life a long time ago', hunh?
Well, isn't that special. I can almost hear Him sighing with relief.
Have you thought about whether or not He's accepted you into His?!
I wasn't the one who said he wasn't saved, quite the opposite, I said Jesus saved me, and extended the invitation to be saved and of friendship to you, since you gave the impression you weren't saved.
If by saying 'you accepted Christ' you mean you're saved, ok then, I'd say that's maybe not the best way to put it, but I've heard that expression before, and am pretty sure you didn't invent it, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about your meaning, ( 'cause I'm a nice guy that way ),
are you also hoping to one day 'un-accept' Him, so you're leaving that option opened?
In other words, since (if) Jesus saved you, but it's not for always, how long is it for?
Is it 'OnceSaved, For a Long While Saved'? ... 'OnceSaved, NeverSaved'? ...
'OnceSaved, UnceSaved'? ... 'Unce, Tice, Fee Tines A'Madey'? ( nm )
Seriously, 'OnceSaved, ... WHAT?!'
Jesus is able to save to the uttermost. He's not reluctant to give you 'AlwaysSaved' ...
But you seem reluctant to receive it. ..... Why?
Perhaps the re-quote below will help.....
Nice post...human.
You boast that you 'accepted Christ into your life a long time ago', hunh?
Well, isn't that special. I can almost hear Him sighing with relief.
Have you thought about whether or not He's accepted you into His?!
I wasn't the one who said he wasn't saved, quite the opposite, I said Jesus saved me, and extended the invitation to be saved and of friendship to you, since you gave the impression you weren't saved.
If by saying 'you accepted Christ' you mean you're saved, ok then, I'd say that's maybe not the best way to put it, but I've heard that expression before, and am pretty sure you didn't invent it, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about your meaning, ( 'cause I'm a nice guy that way
),are you also hoping to one day 'un-accept' Him, so you're leaving that option opened?
In other words, since (if) Jesus saved you, but it's not for always, how long is it for?
Is it 'OnceSaved, For a Long While Saved'? ... 'OnceSaved, NeverSaved'? ...
'OnceSaved, UnceSaved'? ... 'Unce, Tice, Fee Tines A'Madey'? (
nm )Seriously, 'OnceSaved, ... WHAT?!'
Jesus is able to save to the uttermost. He's not reluctant to give you 'AlwaysSaved' ...
But you seem reluctant to receive it. ..... Why?
Perhaps the re-quote below will help.....
Nice post...human.
My comprehension is just fine, now you're just trying to be an antagonistic little dweeb. You keep insisting that 'OnceSavedAlwaysSaved' is some sort of doctrine, and you keep insisting that it's false, based upon the opinions of a couple of your boyfriends on a youtube video.
You boast that you 'accepted Christ into your life a long time ago', hunh?
Well, isn't that special. I can almost hear Him sighing with relief.
Have you thought about whether or not He's accepted you into His?!
I wasn't the one who said he wasn't saved, quite the opposite, I said Jesus saved me, and extended the invitation to be saved and of friendship to you, since you gave the impression you weren't saved.
If by saying 'you accepted Christ' you mean you're saved, ok then, I'd say that's maybe not the best way to put it, but I've heard that expression before, and am pretty sure you didn't invent it, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about your meaning, ( 'cause I'm a nice guy that way ),
are you also hoping to one day 'un-accept' Him, so you're leaving that option opened?
In other words, since (if) Jesus saved you, but it's not for always, how long is it for?
Is it 'OnceSaved, For a Long While Saved'? ... 'OnceSaved, NeverSaved'? ...
'OnceSaved, UnceSaved'? ... 'Unce, Tice, Fee Tines A'Madey'? ( nm )
Seriously, 'OnceSaved, ... WHAT?!'
Jesus is able to save to the uttermost. He's not reluctant to give you 'AlwaysSaved' ...
But you seem reluctant to receive it. ..... Why?
Perhaps the re-quote below will help.....
Nice post...human.
You boast that you 'accepted Christ into your life a long time ago', hunh?
Well, isn't that special. I can almost hear Him sighing with relief.
Have you thought about whether or not He's accepted you into His?!
I wasn't the one who said he wasn't saved, quite the opposite, I said Jesus saved me, and extended the invitation to be saved and of friendship to you, since you gave the impression you weren't saved.
If by saying 'you accepted Christ' you mean you're saved, ok then, I'd say that's maybe not the best way to put it, but I've heard that expression before, and am pretty sure you didn't invent it, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about your meaning, ( 'cause I'm a nice guy that way
),are you also hoping to one day 'un-accept' Him, so you're leaving that option opened?
In other words, since (if) Jesus saved you, but it's not for always, how long is it for?
Is it 'OnceSaved, For a Long While Saved'? ... 'OnceSaved, NeverSaved'? ...
'OnceSaved, UnceSaved'? ... 'Unce, Tice, Fee Tines A'Madey'? (
nm )Seriously, 'OnceSaved, ... WHAT?!'
Jesus is able to save to the uttermost. He's not reluctant to give you 'AlwaysSaved' ...
But you seem reluctant to receive it. ..... Why?
Perhaps the re-quote below will help.....
Nice post...human.
There were no elementary insults, junior.
You're the one who made a boast about your pastor friends on youtube being experts that 'proved' beyond doubt that osas is a false doctrine, but when challenged, you reacted kinda 'girly' in your defense of them and started the insults with your little sarcasms. I gave it back with the boyfriend comment, but I apologize to any girls, I didn't mean to insult them.
But you didnt have to turn it into this. YOU made the emphatic claims that are unfounded and you yourself admitted you cant back up, but could only cite some youtube pastors who at first you couldnt even remember.
It's funny, but I wasn't and am still not offended, lol, it would take much more than what you could possibly offer, though your use of the term butthurt is a new one for me , but it sure sounds like an attempted insult, and a pretty gross one at that. I'll apologize for you to any ladies that might've had to read that, including your girlfriend.
You called this a simple discussion, but after your initial false accusations, you have yet to simply discuss anything, you haven't answered any questions, and in this last post, you claimed to respect your elders while attempting another sarcastic insult against Jesus and His saving grace at the same time.
I'll ask you once more, maybe you'll actually think about it like I suggested before .....
If Jesus didn't save us for ALWAYS, how long did He save us for?
OnceSaved, ______Saved?
You're the one who made a boast about your pastor friends on youtube being experts that 'proved' beyond doubt that osas is a false doctrine, but when challenged, you reacted kinda 'girly' in your defense of them and started the insults with your little sarcasms. I gave it back with the boyfriend comment, but I apologize to any girls, I didn't mean to insult them.
But you didnt have to turn it into this. YOU made the emphatic claims that are unfounded and you yourself admitted you cant back up, but could only cite some youtube pastors who at first you couldnt even remember.
It's funny, but I wasn't and am still not offended, lol, it would take much more than what you could possibly offer, though your use of the term butthurt is a new one for me , but it sure sounds like an attempted insult, and a pretty gross one at that. I'll apologize for you to any ladies that might've had to read that, including your girlfriend.
You called this a simple discussion, but after your initial false accusations, you have yet to simply discuss anything, you haven't answered any questions, and in this last post, you claimed to respect your elders while attempting another sarcastic insult against Jesus and His saving grace at the same time.
I'll ask you once more, maybe you'll actually think about it like I suggested before .....
If Jesus didn't save us for ALWAYS, how long did He save us for?
OnceSaved, ______Saved?