When did the Law expire?

[TheSearcherMan]

As a newbie in this blog, what I see here is disagreement. Most of that disagreement seems to be be caused by one common denominator. Some posters will not accept the entire Bible, or even the entire NT. These same people ignore and simply refuse to acknowledge what they are doing. They harden their hearts to any verse that does not support their argument. It's the same ole' everybody else is doing it routine. But, that is between them and Christ.

In the end, is this discussion nothing but a waste of time since it changes nobody's beliefs, nor does it promote unity in Christ?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

As a newbie in this blog, what I see here is disagreement. Most of that disagreement seems to be be caused by one common denominator. Some posters will not accept the entire Bible, or even the entire NT. These same people ignore and simply refuse to acknowledge what they are doing. They harden their hearts to any verse that does not support their argument. It's the same ole' everybody else is doing it routine. But, that is between them and Christ.

In the end, is this discussion nothing but a waste of time since it changes nobody's beliefs, nor does it promote unity in Christ?

I think it only becomes a waste of time if one begins to walk by their flesh and leaves of walking in love in the Spirit. If we continue to walk in love, the Spirit will take care of unity.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good morning EG. Over time I am beginning to understand your approach.
One can polarise people into one of two camps or start to understand their reference points.

Yes, if we try to put everyone in a group. We risk missing out on what they are really saying,, I think alot of misunderstandings come because we do this, As I said before. I used to do this alot. it was the way I was brought up. If people say this, this is what they believe, If they say that, That is what they believe (look for key words)

The difficulty with sin is simple, it is God who defines it, because it is a name for things that
express our separation from Him. Which is the sin, adultery the act, or the look that started
the interaction, or the first thought, or the first choice to act on the thought, or even the
openness to such behaviour. Or as you would put it, looking at self or looking at God, whatever
this really means.

I think part of the problem is the english language, The greek is so complex. that the ones who went to interpret had to try to convey what they were trying to say into the english language using either words which they thought fit. I think sin is one of those words. I am learning about this as we speak. We are right next to a major university where my church is, In fact, We are just off campus. We have an international student support mission, where we pick up students from China, India and other nations, to help them as they come into the new world. We house them until they get student housing, And we try to maintain freindships. Some of these people do nto even speak english or it is not very well. One of the issues we have, is there is no word for "sin" in the chinese language, So how do we try to convey what sin is to them. I think this is where I have grown into a deeper understanding of what sin is.. It is not just some key word, it is a moment by moment focus, Are we walking the line to the prise. are are we drifting off the line, and walking our own way, no matter how slight.

In your view sin becomes the act of being human in a mortal world. In my view God is defining
the act as the fruit of the whole process, the act of destruction being worthy of judgement. To
break the inevitable process that works to acts of sin, is find ones dwelling with Christ.

In my view, sin is the act of walking off the straight line and making our own path, Not sure what you mean about being human.

The second we take our eyes of God, we are in sin, Whether we commit a sinfgul act or not. we have at that moment made ourself God.. and took control of our own lives.

That (if not put in check) can and will lead to overt acts of sin..

Where as if we keep our eye on the prise of the high calling (seek the things of the spirit) we will not even be tempted to sin.

ie, If I am off the mark, and a beautiful lady comes, I may be tempted to lust, or even do other things. While if I am focused on God, and the same woman comes, The temptation still exists. Yet I will not even think of lusting or doing anything, because my mind is on the spirit. I am worried about serving her, not taking from her.

I hope this makes sense.

God appears to be saying in Christ, you are my people, holy and acceptable, washed and pure.
It is sinful acts that defile, driven from behaviour traits that are wrong. Sorting out the heart
and what you focus on changes ones behaviour. Jesus was always interested in what is in our
hearts, how this is the centre of everything we do. It is why purity, blamelessness etc. need
to become part of who we are.

Yet that is impossible.. Again, it is where is our focus, if our focus is on being holy pure and blameless. we will less likely be those things, because we are to self focused, and trying to live up to that standard.

where as if our focus is on God, and becomeing christ like (loving and serving others) those things will not need to be our focus, they will automatically take place.

Jesus focus was on the mission. Not the law. Not trying t be good. He had a job to do. So do we. Work out our own salvation, We are lights to the world.. A light draws people to us, then to God.. If we focus on this, SIn will cease (never stop, but cease)

But I think you would feel this is sinful to even think about because it is dwelling on self
and trying to save yourself through consciously looking at the heart rather than leaving it all
to God, like having a dirty house and asking a cleaner to clean it for you.

I am not sure what you are saying here, Irt is not sinful to try to be holy righteous and just, It just depends on how we are trying to do it..

My response to this would be by not dealing with ones own heart and what you dwell on and
think about, is denying the power of love and the need for repentance, confession and active
change of behaviour based on letting the Lord be the King of our lives. It involves choice at
its core, moral decisions that make a difference and learning to love, empathise and feel with
people, not just respond to the externals.

And my response would be, if I am focused on God, I do not need those things, If I get off track (miss the mark) The holy spirit will be right there to chasten me, and lead me back to the right path.

All this religious stuff (repent, trying to change etc) is just a smoke screen. I tried that for decades, It failed. I learned what true seek the things of the spirit meant, and I have found freedom. NOT TO SIN as some would say, But to keep running the race, and stay the course.

Do you understand where I am coming from?

I think I do. but do not want to judge,, I hope you understand my view now more also..

By the way I am not trying to attack your position or who you are, I am merely defining different
approaches and why they have different outcomes and seem to generate miss-understanding.

Thank you, I pray we can continue in this manner,, Just try to understand the other.. even if it means asking questions.. Thats the best way.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I can't say I understand all you're trying to say here, but I want to say this. He saved me and gave me His Spirit before I even knew what sin really was.

Did you know you were a sinner?

So it's obvious to me that I was not saved by following the law. But I can also see, looking back and then looking at present, that He has begun to fulfill the law in me. I am no longer murdering. And I didn't accomplish that because, as I've said, no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't do it. But He accomplished it when I stopped all my striving to do it and just asked Him to make me good. I couldn't grow myself in any virtue, but He can if I stop trusting in every other way than by abiding in Him.

I hope and pray you are still growing..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As a newbie in this blog, what I see here is disagreement. Most of that disagreement seems to be be caused by one common denominator. Some posters will not accept the entire Bible, or even the entire NT. These same people ignore and simply refuse to acknowledge what they are doing. They harden their hearts to any verse that does not support their argument. It's the same ole' everybody else is doing it routine. But, that is between them and Christ.

In the end, is this discussion nothing but a waste of time since it changes nobody's beliefs, nor does it promote unity in Christ?

Ahh, judge jury and executioner.

So your not open to discussion?

 

[TheSearcherMan]

One must realize that churches require money to exist. Money mostly comes from people in the pews passing the plate. Large donations from the rich sometimes come with strings attached. If the overseer does not tell the people in the pews what they want to hear, then there are less people in the pews, and thus less money in the plates.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Did you know you were a sinner?



I hope and pray you are still growing..

I don't know how to answer that. I just suddenly saw that what I was reading was the truth and horror overcame me immediately. And I couldn't stand and I fell to the floor in a shattered heap and I couldn't even stand and get a tissue. And all I could keep sobbing over and over was: I'm so sorry, I didn't know, I'm so sorry.

I didn't lay there and say, forgive me of this sin and that sin and this sin. The thing that horrified me and broke my heart is that I hadn't known or seen He existed and so had just ignored any thought of Him all my life. And mixed in with the horror was a growing...relief? that...I wasn't alone in the world as I had thought and that maybe there was a purpose for my existing and that I had found it maybe...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I think it only becomes a waste of time if one begins to walk by their flesh and leaves of walking in love in the Spirit. If we continue to walk in love, the Spirit will take care of unity.

I just got something here....
real and true love cannot be shown without sacrifice.
If I am showing a brother in here real and true love, I must be laying down my life of pride and self seeking and demand for respect at the same time or else the refusal to lay down my life for him is just me being deluded that I am truly loving him.

 

[Stephen63]

hey, is there anything you are not against?? as my pastor says, the Church should be known by what we are for, and how much good we do in Jesus's name.

1. I'm for preaching repentance of sin like Jesus did.
   
2. I'm for the type of repentance that makes people sorry for their sins so that they can truly get saved.
   
3. I'm for living in obedience to prove true repentance like the Bible says.
4. I'm for exposing sin, false doctrine, & false teachers/prophets like the Bible says.
5. I'm for using context to properly understand & teach scripture.
6. I'm for telling the difference between moral good, which is what liberal churches teach today, & spiritual good, which pleases God & is led by the Holy Spirit.
7. I'm for answering purposely written accusations & implications of mine & others of wrongdoing on CC.(you'll figure that one out eventually)

Wow, 7 is God'd perfect number! But I'll bet you'll come up with some kind of illegitimate excuse for an answer because people like you have to have the last word.

 

[Stephen63]

As a newbie in this blog, what I see here is disagreement. Most of that disagreement seems to be be caused by one common denominator. Some posters will not accept the entire Bible, or even the entire NT. These same people ignore and simply refuse to acknowledge what they are doing. They harden their hearts to any verse that does not support their argument. It's the same ole' everybody else is doing it routine. But, that is between them and Christ.

In the end, is this discussion nothing but a waste of time since it changes nobody's beliefs, nor does it promote unity in Christ?

People are reading these posts. If they were a waste of time, Satan wouldn't try to dominate, manage, & manipulate them, would he?

 

[Grace777x70]

This is the message God has given to those that preach the gospel of the grace of Christ. This is our real ministry to the lost and to ourselves. As you have received Christ the Lord - so walk in Him.

2 Corinthians 5:18-21 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, sothat we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

 

[eph610]

One must realize that churches require money to exist. Money mostly comes from people in the pews passing the plate. Large donations from the rich sometimes come with strings attached. If the overseer does not tell the people in the pews what they want to hear, then there are less people in the pews, and thus less money in the plates.

we have 12 baskets in the back of the worship center labeled with where the money goes, We don't do an "offering message" which twists arms and forces 10% or any other nonsense.....We remind people where the baskets are and that if they want to give cheerfully you know where they are it and where it will go based on the label on the basket...


We have never suffered lack because of this approach, which is based on the NT standard of Spirit led giving....

 

[gb9]

1. I'm for preaching repentance of sin like Jesus did.
   
2. I'm for the type of repentance that makes people sorry for their sins so that they can truly get saved.
   
3. I'm for living in obedience to prove true repentance like the Bible says.
4. I'm for exposing sin, false doctrine, & false teachers/prophets like the Bible says.
5. I'm for using context to properly understand & teach scripture.
6. I'm for telling the difference between moral good, which is what liberal churches teach today, & spiritual good, which pleases God & is led by the Holy Spirit.
7. I'm for answering purposely written accusations & implications of mine & others of wrongdoing on CC.(you'll figure that one out eventually)

Wow, 7 is God'd perfect number! But I'll bet you'll come up with some kind of illegitimate excuse for an answer because people like you have to have the last word.

o.k. I pretty much agree with this.

 

[FreeNChrist]

He loves only His sheep. You need to be holy in order to show that you are one.

Hebrews 12:14 (NIV2011)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.


You need to strive toward holiness because Jesus is holy, or you are denying Him.

​Jude 1:4 (NIV2011)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

Is the world comprised only of sheep?...... John 3:16

 

[stonesoffire]

One must realize that churches require money to exist. Money mostly comes from people in the pews passing the plate. Large donations from the rich sometimes come with strings attached. If the overseer does not tell the people in the pews what they want to hear, then there are less people in the pews, and thus less money in the plates.

Sad is it not?

 

[stonesoffire]

He loves only His sheep. You need to be holy in order to show that you are one.

Well, then...His sons are just out of luck?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't know how to answer that. I just suddenly saw that what I was reading was the truth and horror overcame me immediately. And I couldn't stand and I fell to the floor in a shattered heap and I couldn't even stand and get a tissue. And all I could keep sobbing over and over was: I'm so sorry, I didn't know, I'm so sorry.

I didn't lay there and say, forgive me of this sin and that sin and this sin.

I hope not. That is not repentance.. Nor is it what God asked..

 

[stonesoffire]

Is God pleased with the attitude of...just tell me what to do and I will do it?

Sheep...

or..

~Joh_17:11　 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Sons

again my computer takes up the same style as the previous writing.

I don't know why.

 

[FreeNChrist]

If I am still in that ditch of self effort in trying to be made good, you will have to point out how that is. It was only by seeing, as I said, that I would remain in that ditch forever unless God was the one to make me good, that I began to see victories over the things I tried so hard to have victories over, to no avail. That is depending on God and not my flesh to perfect me, so I don't see myself in the ditch any longer. But I would be happy to listen to your explanation of how you see me still in ditch of self effort and trying to perfect in the flesh what was begun in the Spirit.

What was the sin of the Galatians?

 

[TheSearcherMan]

People are reading these posts. If they were a waste of time, Satan wouldn't try to dominate, manage, & manipulate them, would he?

It would seem that 2 Thessalonians 2 would be good for instruction in this thread. A warning?