Interesting discussing. It is possible to receive a healing from God and it does require total faith in God, no, if it be Your will, you have to be 100% convinced. On the other hand, it is obvious that most people who are prayed for are not healed. Also, people who try to hold healing services cause a lot of grief and pain because rarely does anyone really get healed(though people pretend that they do). I have prayed many times when sick and eventually got better but could not honestly say God did a supernatural healing. On the other hand, a few times I have prayed and I was supernaturally healed, so it can happen..but not something we can command to happen whenever we want.
Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!
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My Greek professor was talking about this video by John Piper. He said to Google "crap" gospel. I was a little shocked, I confess. But Piper does use that word to describe the Health and Weakth gospel!
We haven't talked about it much in this thread, but my professor was talking about his trips to Africa, and how WoF has just destroyed the gospel in Africa. America exported the worst possible heresy there, and has done untold damage to the name of Christ. One can only say, only Satan could be behind such an evil and damnable doctrine!
The video posted is short and sweet - 2:47. It does not get into the Bible much, but his point is profound! Highly recommended to watch!
We haven't talked about it much in this thread, but my professor was talking about his trips to Africa, and how WoF has just destroyed the gospel in Africa. America exported the worst possible heresy there, and has done untold damage to the name of Christ. One can only say, only Satan could be behind such an evil and damnable doctrine!
The video posted is short and sweet - 2:47. It does not get into the Bible much, but his point is profound! Highly recommended to watch!
yeah, i think i'm don responding to you again, you just like to argue... and your post are pure meaningless, have a great night 
The scriptures inform us God does not heal by human hands. Attributing the faith of God to a human seems to be where you go astray?
When men attribute the work of Christ's faith to men. In effect they are teaching we do need the hands of man as the will of men . That would be blasphemy attributing the work of God to men. We are to have no gods before Him.(the first commandment) We walk by faith and not by sight after something we could do. God uses physical healing to represent the gospel.
And there they preached the gospel. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.Act 14:7
We do not worship the hands of men for the work God performs in them.
That kind of work, walking by sight comes after the three avenues.
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world
58And He did not do many miracles there, because of their unbelief.
24Immediately the boy’s father cried out, “I do believe; helpmy unbelief!”
5So He could not perform any miracles there, except to lay His hands on a few of the sick and heal them. 6And amazed at their unbelief, He went around teaching from village to village.
you are wrong its not a judgemental and condemnatory statement... it's a theological one...
and let me ask you this when dealing with the multitudes(many people) there was only one time when ALL were not healed. its right there above. He says ask and it will be given.
Belief and Unbelief
…39For this reason they were unable to believe. For again, Isaiah says: 40“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so thatthey cannot see with their eyes, and understand with their hearts, andturn, and I would heal them.” 41[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Isaiah said these things because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about Him.…[/FONT]
[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]it is like Stephen said with you now...
[/FONT]51You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You always resist theHoly Spirit,[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]just[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]as[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]your[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]fathers did.
[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]i do not know why you friend died, if i knew more i would say more. idk if someone told her in error to reject medicine. i do not know, and will not say more unless you want to talk of that.
[/FONT]8Jesus[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]Christ[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]is the[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]same[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]yesterday[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]and[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]today[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]and[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]forever.
[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]and if he is why do you think god doesn't heal any more? beyond Isa 53 you see it is Gods will to heal man of EVERY THING that plagues him, from sickness to sin.
and heres this again till you tell me how it is out of context.... and yes i have been sick, but you know what, i prayed, did what God lead me to do and i got better.....
[/FONT]Jesus Heals at Peter's House
14When Jesus arrived at Peter’s house, He saw Peter’s mother-in-law sick in bed with a fever. 15He touched her hand, and the fever lefther, and she got up and began to serve them.16When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to Jesus, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick.…
Ok, first looking at Matt 8:17 to see the fulfillment of Isa 53 we can all agree on that I hope but what I want to point out was the fact that it was fulfilled by a Physical healing, not spiritual. So I want to post a few other commentaries pointing to the face that the verse in context is referring to physical healing.
Matthew 8:17. rophetic citation, apposite, felicitous; setting Christ’s healing ministry in a true light; giving prominence not to the thaumaturgic but to the sympathetic aspect; from the Hebrew original, the Sept[53] making the text (Isaiah 53:4) refer to sin. The Hebrew refers to sicknesses and pains. It is useless to discuss the precise meaning of ἔλαβεν and ἐβάστασεν: took and bore, or took and bore away; subjective or objective? The evangelist would note, not merely that Jesus actually did remove diseases, but that He was minded to do so: such was His bent.
Matthew 8:17. Ὅπως πληρωθῇ, that it might be fulfilled) It behoved that the Physician of the soul should also remove bodily complaints from those who came in His way.[376] In this manner also, therefore, was fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah. Body and soul together form one man: the corrupting principle of both soul and body is one [namely sin]; one and the same aid was given to both by this great Physician, as the case required.—ἔλαβε, took) i.e. removed from us.
[376] And of whom the extraordinary numbers are from time to time noticed, Matthew 4:23; Matthew 9:35-36 (Luke 4:21), Matthew 12:15, Matthew 15:30, Matthew 21:14.
Now onto the quoted verse in 1 peter
1 Peter 2:24King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
I want to focus on a few words here, and there meaning in Greek.
iaomai: to heal
Original Word: ἰάομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: iaomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ee-ah'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: I heal
Definition: I heal, generally of the physical, sometimes of spiritual, disease.
dikaiosuné: righteousness, justice
Original Word: δικαιοσύνη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: dikaiosuné
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yos-oo'-nay)
Short Definition: justice, justness, righteousness
Definition: (usually if not always in a Jewish atmosphere), justice, justness, righteousness, righteousness of which God is the source or author, but practically: a divine righteousness.
HELPS Word-studies
1343 dikaiosýnē (from 1349 /díkē, "a judicial verdict") – properly, judicial approval (the verdict of approval); in the NT, the approval of God ("divine approval").
1343 /dikaiosýnē ("divine approval") is the regular NT term used for righteousness ("God's judicial approval"). 1343 /dikaiosýnē ("the approval of God") refers to what is deemed right by the Lord(after His examination), i.e. what is approved in His eyes.
Ok so the context or exegesis is that along with the promise of salvation, that there were physical real world benefits that were providing not just a spiritual revival to him, but a physical.
“the corrupting principle of both soul and body is one [namely sin]; one and the same aid was given to both by this great Physician, as the case required.—ἔλαβε, took) i.e. removed from us.”
The fact that we are three part being, a soul renewed by God, and a flesh that can be healed by God. “Body and soul together form one man” the Lord redeemed us from our sins and sicknesses at the same time. Accordingly, if we believe that Christ redeemed us from our sins, we should believe that He redeemed us from our sicknesses also. If we cannot believe in both kinds of redemption, we must not believe in any kind of redemption, for Jesus carried away both! we are already healed. If we are sick it is because of a lack of the right kind of knowledge, which is a lack of a belief in an area because we know it not, or a outright rejection of the belief, constituting a lack of Faith.
Let me ask this question, if a prophecy is made of a redemptive work that includes spiritual and physical healing.
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to heal
NASB Word Usage
become fresh (3), completely healed (1), heal (24), healed (22), healer (1), healing (2), heals (3), physician (1), physicians (4), purified (2), reappeared (1), repaired (2), take care
and is fulfilled by a physical healing,
15He touched her hand, and the fever lefther, and she got up and began to serve them.
And was mentioned in context again with both spiritual, and physical healing.
iaomai: to heal
Definition: I heal, generally of the physical, sometimes of spiritual, disease.
But here is more on how we are to we are healed both physically and spiritually.
The Prayer of Faith
…14Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15Andthe prayer offered in faith will restore the one whois sick. TheLord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power to prevail.…
In context it is speaking of both the physical and spiritual needs being met by Christ in the context of the previously mentioned verses.
15. and the prayer of faith shall save the sick] The context leaves no doubt that the primary thought is, as in our Lord’s words to men and women whom He healed, “Thy faith hath saved thee”—“thy faith hath made thee whole” (Matthew 9:22; Mark 5:34; Mark 10:52; Luke 7:50; Luke 8:48; Luke 17:19; Luke 18:42), that the sick man should in such a case “recover his bodily health.” The “prayer of faith” was indeed not limited to that recovery in its scope, but the answer to that prayer in its higher aims, is given separately afterwards in the promise of forgiveness.
and the Lord shall raise him up] Here, as in James 5:14, we have to think of St James as recognising not merely the power of God generally, but specifically that of the Lord Jesus, still working through His servants, as He worked personally on earth. So Peter said to Æneas, “Jesus Christ maketh thee whole” (Acts 9:34).
It is clear in the word that God, is still active in healing.
Acts 10:38King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
The same Holy Ghost that was in Christ is active in us and in the world
The primary way a believer receives God's healing power is through faith in God's Word. Believers shouldn't require a sign or wonder to believe in God's healing power. Jesus got upset when people required signs and wonders from him to believe in his healing power [John 4:48, Luke 1:18-20]. He praised people who just received his healing power by faith [Matthew 8:10 and Luke 7:9].
If we would simple take his word and believe it true.
24Immediately the boy’s father cried out, “I do believe; helpmy unbelief!”
5So He could not perform any miracles there, except to lay His hands on a few of the sick and heal them. 6And amazed at their unbelief, He went around teaching from village to village.
you are wrong its not a judgemental and condemnatory statement... it's a theological one...
and let me ask you this when dealing with the multitudes(many people) there was only one time when ALL were not healed. its right there above. He says ask and it will be given.
Belief and Unbelief
…39For this reason they were unable to believe. For again, Isaiah says: 40“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so thatthey cannot see with their eyes, and understand with their hearts, andturn, and I would heal them.” 41[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Isaiah said these things because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about Him.…[/FONT]
[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]it is like Stephen said with you now...
[/FONT]51You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You always resist theHoly Spirit,[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]just[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]as[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]your[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]fathers did.
[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]i do not know why you friend died, if i knew more i would say more. idk if someone told her in error to reject medicine. i do not know, and will not say more unless you want to talk of that.
[/FONT]8Jesus[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]Christ[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]is the[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]same[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]yesterday[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]and[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]today[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]and[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]forever.
[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]and if he is why do you think god doesn't heal any more? beyond Isa 53 you see it is Gods will to heal man of EVERY THING that plagues him, from sickness to sin.
and heres this again till you tell me how it is out of context.... and yes i have been sick, but you know what, i prayed, did what God lead me to do and i got better.....
[/FONT]Jesus Heals at Peter's House
14When Jesus arrived at Peter’s house, He saw Peter’s mother-in-law sick in bed with a fever. 15He touched her hand, and the fever lefther, and she got up and began to serve them.16When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to Jesus, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick.…
Ok, first looking at Matt 8:17 to see the fulfillment of Isa 53 we can all agree on that I hope but what I want to point out was the fact that it was fulfilled by a Physical healing, not spiritual. So I want to post a few other commentaries pointing to the face that the verse in context is referring to physical healing.
Matthew 8:17. rophetic citation, apposite, felicitous; setting Christ’s healing ministry in a true light; giving prominence not to the thaumaturgic but to the sympathetic aspect; from the Hebrew original, the Sept[53] making the text (Isaiah 53:4) refer to sin. The Hebrew refers to sicknesses and pains. It is useless to discuss the precise meaning of ἔλαβεν and ἐβάστασεν: took and bore, or took and bore away; subjective or objective? The evangelist would note, not merely that Jesus actually did remove diseases, but that He was minded to do so: such was His bent.
Matthew 8:17. Ὅπως πληρωθῇ, that it might be fulfilled) It behoved that the Physician of the soul should also remove bodily complaints from those who came in His way.[376] In this manner also, therefore, was fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah. Body and soul together form one man: the corrupting principle of both soul and body is one [namely sin]; one and the same aid was given to both by this great Physician, as the case required.—ἔλαβε, took) i.e. removed from us.
[376] And of whom the extraordinary numbers are from time to time noticed, Matthew 4:23; Matthew 9:35-36 (Luke 4:21), Matthew 12:15, Matthew 15:30, Matthew 21:14.
Now onto the quoted verse in 1 peter
1 Peter 2:24King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
I want to focus on a few words here, and there meaning in Greek.
iaomai: to heal
Original Word: ἰάομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: iaomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ee-ah'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: I heal
Definition: I heal, generally of the physical, sometimes of spiritual, disease.
dikaiosuné: righteousness, justice
Original Word: δικαιοσύνη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: dikaiosuné
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yos-oo'-nay)
Short Definition: justice, justness, righteousness
Definition: (usually if not always in a Jewish atmosphere), justice, justness, righteousness, righteousness of which God is the source or author, but practically: a divine righteousness.
HELPS Word-studies
1343 dikaiosýnē (from 1349 /díkē, "a judicial verdict") – properly, judicial approval (the verdict of approval); in the NT, the approval of God ("divine approval").
1343 /dikaiosýnē ("divine approval") is the regular NT term used for righteousness ("God's judicial approval"). 1343 /dikaiosýnē ("the approval of God") refers to what is deemed right by the Lord(after His examination), i.e. what is approved in His eyes.
Ok so the context or exegesis is that along with the promise of salvation, that there were physical real world benefits that were providing not just a spiritual revival to him, but a physical.
“the corrupting principle of both soul and body is one [namely sin]; one and the same aid was given to both by this great Physician, as the case required.—ἔλαβε, took) i.e. removed from us.”
The fact that we are three part being, a soul renewed by God, and a flesh that can be healed by God. “Body and soul together form one man” the Lord redeemed us from our sins and sicknesses at the same time. Accordingly, if we believe that Christ redeemed us from our sins, we should believe that He redeemed us from our sicknesses also. If we cannot believe in both kinds of redemption, we must not believe in any kind of redemption, for Jesus carried away both! we are already healed. If we are sick it is because of a lack of the right kind of knowledge, which is a lack of a belief in an area because we know it not, or a outright rejection of the belief, constituting a lack of Faith.
Let me ask this question, if a prophecy is made of a redemptive work that includes spiritual and physical healing.
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to heal
NASB Word Usage
become fresh (3), completely healed (1), heal (24), healed (22), healer (1), healing (2), heals (3), physician (1), physicians (4), purified (2), reappeared (1), repaired (2), take care
and is fulfilled by a physical healing,
15He touched her hand, and the fever lefther, and she got up and began to serve them.
And was mentioned in context again with both spiritual, and physical healing.
iaomai: to heal
Definition: I heal, generally of the physical, sometimes of spiritual, disease.
But here is more on how we are to we are healed both physically and spiritually.
The Prayer of Faith
…14Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15Andthe prayer offered in faith will restore the one whois sick. TheLord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power to prevail.…
In context it is speaking of both the physical and spiritual needs being met by Christ in the context of the previously mentioned verses.
15. and the prayer of faith shall save the sick] The context leaves no doubt that the primary thought is, as in our Lord’s words to men and women whom He healed, “Thy faith hath saved thee”—“thy faith hath made thee whole” (Matthew 9:22; Mark 5:34; Mark 10:52; Luke 7:50; Luke 8:48; Luke 17:19; Luke 18:42), that the sick man should in such a case “recover his bodily health.” The “prayer of faith” was indeed not limited to that recovery in its scope, but the answer to that prayer in its higher aims, is given separately afterwards in the promise of forgiveness.
and the Lord shall raise him up] Here, as in James 5:14, we have to think of St James as recognising not merely the power of God generally, but specifically that of the Lord Jesus, still working through His servants, as He worked personally on earth. So Peter said to Æneas, “Jesus Christ maketh thee whole” (Acts 9:34).
It is clear in the word that God, is still active in healing.
Acts 10:38King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
The same Holy Ghost that was in Christ is active in us and in the world
The primary way a believer receives God's healing power is through faith in God's Word. Believers shouldn't require a sign or wonder to believe in God's healing power. Jesus got upset when people required signs and wonders from him to believe in his healing power [John 4:48, Luke 1:18-20]. He praised people who just received his healing power by faith [Matthew 8:10 and Luke 7:9].
If we would simple take his word and believe it true.
I guess posting Bible verses is not enough for you too then? I guess not responding to any of my post with scripture is enough for you. I guess you do not understand the Bible or New Testament to have a discussion at least that's what i see, let alone if i am so wrong, how much more are you at fult for not taking the time to look at my post and tell me how the context is off, or how i missed it?
you pray that God will not deal too harshly with me, old women, He set me straight a long time ago. you don't know the hell i have walked. When i first came on CC, I thought I saw wise elders who could help me to know the truth of the word deeper, and i could discuss my views and have a mutual respect. i hunger for God more that you know sister. I I was wrong, you and a few others act nothing like you preach you have. but I still hope in you, anyway look at my post tell me where i missed the context then. lets talk about that than silly insults. and lets talk about the bible...
you pray that God will not deal too harshly with me, old women, He set me straight a long time ago. you don't know the hell i have walked. When i first came on CC, I thought I saw wise elders who could help me to know the truth of the word deeper, and i could discuss my views and have a mutual respect. i hunger for God more that you know sister. I I was wrong, you and a few others act nothing like you preach you have. but I still hope in you, anyway look at my post tell me where i missed the context then. lets talk about that than silly insults. and lets talk about the bible...
“They’ve (Faith teachers) all copied from my dad. [E. W. Kenyon] They’ve changed it a little bit and added their own touch….but they couldn’t change the wording…These that are coming along now that have been in the ministry for just a few years and claiming that this is something that they are just starting, it makes you laugh a little bit. It’s very difficult for some people to be big enough to give credit to somebody else.” [ E.W. Kenyon, The Father and His Family, Lynnwood WA.: Kenyon’s Gospel Publishing Society, 1964, p.118.]
http://www.kenyons.org/plagiarism-of-ew-kenyons.html
bluto she never mentioned Hagin, nither did the other man. but she does in my link.... read it
http://www.kenyons.org/plagiarism-of-ew-kenyons.html
bluto she never mentioned Hagin, nither did the other man. but she does in my link.... read it
Here is the second site with the persons testimony. And btw, I can find hundreds of testimonies from people who left wof.
https://mkayla.wordpress.com/2009/1...hing-methods-of-kenneth-e-hagin-junker-jorge/
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
https://mkayla.wordpress.com/2009/1...hing-methods-of-kenneth-e-hagin-junker-jorge/
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
[FONT="]46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.[/FONT]
[FONT="]48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.
faith in Christ as a healer today is what heals. mans faith is what is respected by God.[/FONT]
[FONT="]47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.[/FONT]
[FONT="]48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.
faith in Christ as a healer today is what heals. mans faith is what is respected by God.[/FONT]
Well, I guess you like to trade in insults. I have not insulted you, just tried to show you the error of your ways. Please stop quoting the miracles of Jesus to prove your point. I already agreed with you that Jesus healed the sick. I already told you it was the fulfillment of prophecy. And I will add, a sign of the compassion of God, in Jesus.
As for those messed up, run on, bolded posts with copy and paste Greek Strong's strung into the middle, I will not be responding to them. So some suggestions to make your posts more readable.
Please:
1. Set off the quotes with quotation marks. Also leaving a line above or below would help tremendously. If you want to add a colour to the Scriptures, it would also really help.
2. Please cut out the bold type. If there is one or two words you want to emphasize, go for it. When you bold everything, it makes it impossible to read, or see what is important. Preferably, don't bold your own words. They really aren't that important.
3. Forget the copy and paste Strong's. In this case, you have gone and put a word up, which definitely means "heal, restore." However, it is not the most common word, and Strong's does not even get into why it is used. No one is reading your copy and paste. If I want to reference a word, I will look in Bauer, or even Kohlenburger/Goodrick/Swanson, and certainly my exegetical and linguistic key to the NT by Rogers and Rogers. Those are the best Greek sources.
As for anyone else reading, well, like I said, to difficult to read for anyone, even with good eye sight, and no one else, usually cares about Greek, unless you can bring out something unique that adds to the discussion. I'm sure most people will agree here!
I have a lot of eye problems, some inherited, some not. It is impossible for me to read your continuous posts in bold print that are jammed together. And simply not scholarly, and I am talking how to write a decent junior high or high school paper. As for me needing to get my life time eye sight healed, although close up is not a problem, I join with Paul, who had big issues with reading small print, just like my husband with close vision issues, and my aunts with Macular degeneration and glaucoma. If Paul can have eye sight problems, well, then none of us are immune.
"See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand." Gal.6:11
Also still waiting for you to deal with the OP. 48 pages and counting!
You know wanderer, after a lot of prayer and thought I see were not getting anywhere by exchanging post (along with others on this issue) as if were all in one big "sword" fight. I found an article written by Elliot Miller from CRI, Christian Research Institute from the very late 1970's and early 1980's who I knew.
The point of the article is healing in the atonement? He also brings out at the beginning of the article the idea that many "neo-teachings" have arrived and some of them have gone. I have noticed in the last few years that wof is withering away (as it should) with all false teachings but it's effect is still harming the unsuspecting sheep.
Now, I understand completely that you've invested your life in this thing despite the fact that your still young and it's hard for you to just pull up and leave the movement. Way back in 1969/1970 I was going to go to the Church of Christ Bible College in Indiana with my wife who was pregnant and I remember we had a Rambler car and a small uhaul with all that we owned. I was a very young Christian full of "p*** and vinegar.
Anyway, we got there and the first Sunday we attended their church the Pastor preached on "You have to be water baptized to be saved." Well, from my study of the Bible that was not true. Now, this may seem like a small thing but to me my spirit was not comfortable and I did not want to make a decision I was going to later regret. So to make a long story short, we left and headed for California and I attended Biola College in the Los Angeles area. I say all of this so you know that God always has something better for you.
And yes, my wife and I were scared but I was not as scared as I was in Vietnam. I arrived there in January of 1968 and two weeks late the Tet offensive started (which was the Vietnamese New Year) and we were rocketed and shot at every single night a 2:00am in the moring for two weeks straigh. Why amd I telling you this? Because I was scared "s*******" that I was going to die and I thought the Lord had abandoned me. Where are you I would say?
Anyway, war is just plain "horrible" and I would not wish it on anybody. The good news is the fact that He never did leave me because here I am talking with you. I'm so grateful that I wake up in the mornings and you should know that I have been extremely healthy all my life. My vision is not very good but I can get buy and don't think I have not ask God to heal me, but He chose not to which is fine with me. Here's the article. http://www.equip.org/PDF/DH018.pdf
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
The point of the article is healing in the atonement? He also brings out at the beginning of the article the idea that many "neo-teachings" have arrived and some of them have gone. I have noticed in the last few years that wof is withering away (as it should) with all false teachings but it's effect is still harming the unsuspecting sheep.
Now, I understand completely that you've invested your life in this thing despite the fact that your still young and it's hard for you to just pull up and leave the movement. Way back in 1969/1970 I was going to go to the Church of Christ Bible College in Indiana with my wife who was pregnant and I remember we had a Rambler car and a small uhaul with all that we owned. I was a very young Christian full of "p*** and vinegar.
Anyway, we got there and the first Sunday we attended their church the Pastor preached on "You have to be water baptized to be saved." Well, from my study of the Bible that was not true. Now, this may seem like a small thing but to me my spirit was not comfortable and I did not want to make a decision I was going to later regret. So to make a long story short, we left and headed for California and I attended Biola College in the Los Angeles area. I say all of this so you know that God always has something better for you.
And yes, my wife and I were scared but I was not as scared as I was in Vietnam. I arrived there in January of 1968 and two weeks late the Tet offensive started (which was the Vietnamese New Year) and we were rocketed and shot at every single night a 2:00am in the moring for two weeks straigh. Why amd I telling you this? Because I was scared "s*******" that I was going to die and I thought the Lord had abandoned me. Where are you I would say?
Anyway, war is just plain "horrible" and I would not wish it on anybody. The good news is the fact that He never did leave me because here I am talking with you. I'm so grateful that I wake up in the mornings and you should know that I have been extremely healthy all my life. My vision is not very good but I can get buy and don't think I have not ask God to heal me, but He chose not to which is fine with me. Here's the article. http://www.equip.org/PDF/DH018.pdf
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Jesus Heals at Peter's House
14 When Jesus arrived at Peter’s house, He saw Peter’s mother-in-law sick in bed with a fever. 15 He touched her hand, and the fever left her, and she got up and began to serve them. 16 When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to Jesus, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick.…
Ok, first looking at Matt 8:17 to see the fulfillment of Isa 53 we can all agree on fact that it was fulfilled by a Physical healing, not spiritual. the word healed here is iaomai and the context that this word is used in is a physical healing.
Matthew 8:17. in this context we would note, not merely that Jesus actually did remove diseases, but that He was minded to do so: such was His will. and sin when it entered the body brought both physical and spiritual death. see in the fall. but at the fall we don't see Adam and Eve immediately fall dead. no it was more akin to a physical decay that started leading to the natural death. He is the great Physician! in his Gospel's Jesus referred to himself as a "physician" or "doctor," in the sense of "spiritual healer" and in the sense of "physical healer." but It is important to note that the healing power from Jesus went beyond curing broken bones and ailing bodies. Sickness--and, therefore, healing--is not simply a biological or physical phenomenon. It touches every level of our existence as a human being: physical, emotional, social, spiritual.
Matthew 8:17. Ὅπως πληρωθῇ, that it might be fulfilled) It behoved that the Physician of the soul should also remove bodily complaints from those who came in His way.[376] In this manner also, therefore, was fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah. Body and soul together form one man: the corrupting principle of both soul and body is one [namely sin]; one and the same aid was given to both by this great Physician, as the case required.—ἔλαβε, took) i.e. removed from us.[376] And of whom the extraordinary numbers are from time to time noticed, Matthew 4:23; Matthew 9:35-36 (Luke 4:21), Matthew 12:15, Matthew 15:30, Matthew 21:14.
Now onto the quoted verse in 1 peter
1 Peter 2:24King James Version (KJV)
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
I want to focus on two words here, and there meaning in Greek and move one from there. first we know that Peter himself had an eyewitness account to the fulfillment of Isa 53.
[h=1]17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.[/h]now if Peter here is calling back to the moment at his mothers house he is referring to the manifestation of physical healing that took place and fulfilled the prophecy. now we know that the context of righteousness means a right standing or position with God, namely the Father. the thing is in the context of the Greek right between "by whose" and "wounds" that with the fact that the only other occurrence of healing mentioned in this verse is to James 5:16 that is speaking to a physical healing of sickness biased on the prayers of someone in right standing or right position. Now The fact that we are three part being a spirit born of God, a soul renewed by God, and a flesh that can be healed by God. all together form one man. the Lord redeemed us from our sins and sicknesses at the same time. Accordingly, if we believe that Christ redeemed us from our sins, we should believe that He redeemed us from our sicknesses also. If we cannot believe in both kinds of redemption, we must not believe in any kind of redemption, for Jesus carried away both! we are already healed. If we are sick it is because of a lack of the right kind of knowledge, the lack of a right position in Him. which is a lack of a belief in an area because we know it not, or a outright rejection of the belief, constituting a lack of Faith.
Let me ask this question, if a prophecy is made of a redemptive work that includes spiritual and physical healing.
and is fulfilled by a physical healing,
15 He touched her hand, and the fever left her, and she got up and began to serve them.
And was mentioned in context again with both spiritual, and physical healing.
iaomai again to heal used 53 times referring to a physical healing.
The Prayer of Faith
…14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 Andthe prayer offered in faith will restore the one whois sick. TheLord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power to prevail.…
In context it is speaking of both the physical and spiritual needs being met by Christ in the context of the previously mentioned verses. the context of healing is All not some All of your needs, spiritual, physical, emotional. anything!
15. and the prayer of faith shall save the sick]
The context leaves no doubt that the primary thought is, as in our Lord’s words to men and women whom He healed, “Thy faith hath saved thee”—“thy faith hath made thee whole” (Matthew 9:22; Mark 5:34; Mark 10:52; Luke 7:50; Luke 8:48; Luke 17:19; Luke 18:42), that the sick man should in such a case “recover his bodily health.” The “prayer of faith” was indeed not limited to that recovery in its scope, but the answer to that prayer in its higher aims, is given separately afterwards in the promise of forgiveness. and the Lord shall raise him up] Here, as in James 5:14, we have to think of St James as recognising not merely the power of God generally, but specifically that of the Lord Jesus, still working through His servants, as He worked personally on earth. So Peter said to Æneas, “Jesus Christ maketh thee whole” (Acts 9:34).
It is clear in the word that God, is still active in healing. Did HE not anoint you with the same spirit!
Acts 10:38King James Version (KJV)
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
The same Holy Ghost that was in Christ is active in us and in the world, and if Christ healed by the Holy Ghost then, what makes you think that the Holy Ghost doesn't want to heal all now?
The primary way a believer receives God's healing power is through faith in God's Word. Believers shouldn't require a sign or wonder to believe in God's healing power. Jesus got upset when people required signs and wonders from him to believe in his healing power [John 4:48, Luke 1:18-20]. He praised people who just received his healing power by faith [Matthew 8:10 and Luke 7:9].
If we would simple take his word and believe it true. i hope the format is better sister. i really would like to see what you think, and talk of this mutually.
14 When Jesus arrived at Peter’s house, He saw Peter’s mother-in-law sick in bed with a fever. 15 He touched her hand, and the fever left her, and she got up and began to serve them. 16 When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to Jesus, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick.…
Ok, first looking at Matt 8:17 to see the fulfillment of Isa 53 we can all agree on fact that it was fulfilled by a Physical healing, not spiritual. the word healed here is iaomai and the context that this word is used in is a physical healing.
Matthew 8:17. in this context we would note, not merely that Jesus actually did remove diseases, but that He was minded to do so: such was His will. and sin when it entered the body brought both physical and spiritual death. see in the fall. but at the fall we don't see Adam and Eve immediately fall dead. no it was more akin to a physical decay that started leading to the natural death. He is the great Physician! in his Gospel's Jesus referred to himself as a "physician" or "doctor," in the sense of "spiritual healer" and in the sense of "physical healer." but It is important to note that the healing power from Jesus went beyond curing broken bones and ailing bodies. Sickness--and, therefore, healing--is not simply a biological or physical phenomenon. It touches every level of our existence as a human being: physical, emotional, social, spiritual.
Matthew 8:17. Ὅπως πληρωθῇ, that it might be fulfilled) It behoved that the Physician of the soul should also remove bodily complaints from those who came in His way.[376] In this manner also, therefore, was fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah. Body and soul together form one man: the corrupting principle of both soul and body is one [namely sin]; one and the same aid was given to both by this great Physician, as the case required.—ἔλαβε, took) i.e. removed from us.[376] And of whom the extraordinary numbers are from time to time noticed, Matthew 4:23; Matthew 9:35-36 (Luke 4:21), Matthew 12:15, Matthew 15:30, Matthew 21:14.
Now onto the quoted verse in 1 peter
1 Peter 2:24King James Version (KJV)
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
I want to focus on two words here, and there meaning in Greek and move one from there. first we know that Peter himself had an eyewitness account to the fulfillment of Isa 53.
[h=1]17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.[/h]now if Peter here is calling back to the moment at his mothers house he is referring to the manifestation of physical healing that took place and fulfilled the prophecy. now we know that the context of righteousness means a right standing or position with God, namely the Father. the thing is in the context of the Greek right between "by whose" and "wounds" that with the fact that the only other occurrence of healing mentioned in this verse is to James 5:16 that is speaking to a physical healing of sickness biased on the prayers of someone in right standing or right position. Now The fact that we are three part being a spirit born of God, a soul renewed by God, and a flesh that can be healed by God. all together form one man. the Lord redeemed us from our sins and sicknesses at the same time. Accordingly, if we believe that Christ redeemed us from our sins, we should believe that He redeemed us from our sicknesses also. If we cannot believe in both kinds of redemption, we must not believe in any kind of redemption, for Jesus carried away both! we are already healed. If we are sick it is because of a lack of the right kind of knowledge, the lack of a right position in Him. which is a lack of a belief in an area because we know it not, or a outright rejection of the belief, constituting a lack of Faith.
Let me ask this question, if a prophecy is made of a redemptive work that includes spiritual and physical healing.
and is fulfilled by a physical healing,
15 He touched her hand, and the fever left her, and she got up and began to serve them.
And was mentioned in context again with both spiritual, and physical healing.
iaomai again to heal used 53 times referring to a physical healing.
The Prayer of Faith
…14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 Andthe prayer offered in faith will restore the one whois sick. TheLord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power to prevail.…
In context it is speaking of both the physical and spiritual needs being met by Christ in the context of the previously mentioned verses. the context of healing is All not some All of your needs, spiritual, physical, emotional. anything!
15. and the prayer of faith shall save the sick]
The context leaves no doubt that the primary thought is, as in our Lord’s words to men and women whom He healed, “Thy faith hath saved thee”—“thy faith hath made thee whole” (Matthew 9:22; Mark 5:34; Mark 10:52; Luke 7:50; Luke 8:48; Luke 17:19; Luke 18:42), that the sick man should in such a case “recover his bodily health.” The “prayer of faith” was indeed not limited to that recovery in its scope, but the answer to that prayer in its higher aims, is given separately afterwards in the promise of forgiveness. and the Lord shall raise him up] Here, as in James 5:14, we have to think of St James as recognising not merely the power of God generally, but specifically that of the Lord Jesus, still working through His servants, as He worked personally on earth. So Peter said to Æneas, “Jesus Christ maketh thee whole” (Acts 9:34).
It is clear in the word that God, is still active in healing. Did HE not anoint you with the same spirit!
Acts 10:38King James Version (KJV)
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
The same Holy Ghost that was in Christ is active in us and in the world, and if Christ healed by the Holy Ghost then, what makes you think that the Holy Ghost doesn't want to heal all now?
The primary way a believer receives God's healing power is through faith in God's Word. Believers shouldn't require a sign or wonder to believe in God's healing power. Jesus got upset when people required signs and wonders from him to believe in his healing power [John 4:48, Luke 1:18-20]. He praised people who just received his healing power by faith [Matthew 8:10 and Luke 7:9].
If we would simple take his word and believe it true. i hope the format is better sister. i really would like to see what you think, and talk of this mutually.
So you are going to die from good health?
Sin is in this world and everything in this world is corrupted by sin. Sin produces death.
When you become sick it is the mercy of God to heal you. You deserve to die as we all deserve to die. To die for the Christian is promotion into heaven.
Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Sin is in this world and everything in this world is corrupted by sin. Sin produces death.
When you become sick it is the mercy of God to heal you. You deserve to die as we all deserve to die. To die for the Christian is promotion into heaven.
Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
For the cause of Christ
Roger