The connection between: Loving Jesus—Obedience—Eternal Life

[dcontroversal]

you mean the group that reads the Bible?? as I just said, that is what Paul said. the arrogance of some people.

I have been on here for many years, and have never put anyone on ignore. but it is getting close here. this deceit and lies have no place on a Christian website.

I hear that....I am about the same...the workers for salvation refuse to acknowledge the scriptures that prove salvation is a free gift with no strings attached other than believing and acknowledging Jesus....they, like a poodle at a dog show, have to jump through religious hoops and ADD to the COMPLETED work of JESUS.....they like to REMOVE themselves from the simplicity that is found in Christ and add their human effort and work........

Many will boast in that day of their religious works...only to be cast because like the thief...they attempted another door!

 

[Grace777x70]

you mean the group that reads the Bible?? as I just said, that is what Paul said. the arrogance of some people.

I have been on here for many years, and have never put anyone on ignore. but it is getting close here. this deceit and lies have no place on a Christian website.

It is very unfortunate that sometimes it has to come down to this.

Some people just "see" things that are not said but instead they make up things in their own minds.

For example:

Someone says:

" Look at the beautiful blue sky the Lord gave to us today."

Someone else responds back:

"The sky is not green - the sky is blue and everyone knows that. You are a false teacher and a heretic."

When people continually mis-represent what is really being said and they then re-formulate in their minds something else and then accuse others of thinking like they have just made up in their own minds - there is no chance to have an honest discussion with this type of a mindset and it is futile until they begin to be honest with what is really being said by people.

It's ok to agree to disagree but at the very least represent accurately what people are really saying. To not do so is deceitful in my opinion.

I recommend just letting things go and post scriptures that speak of the wondrous beauty of the grace and love of our Lord. The Holy Spirit in all of us will witness to the truth of the Lord Jesus' Christ finished work.

 

[FreeNChrist]

But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
Romans 5:15

The concept of a free gift can be taken in different ways.
1. You are given something, but you have to pay for it, or it is free of charge
2. The gift does not incur any constraints on it, or limitations of what it can do or how

Now if you are given a radio controlled car, you are not given a plane which can fly.
It can only do what it can do. So though the gift is without charge, it does not make it
work outside its constraints.

Now the greek of Romans 5:15 regarding the gift is "charisma" is not a free gift, it is a gift.
Some translate it with the word free, but this is an interpretation.

Now whether you say free gift or not, it does not change the reality. The gift of life costs
the death of your life in this world.

Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
John 12:25

So many miss-quote and miss-use scripture, but then they can do no other, because they
do not know Him who authored these words.

For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
Phil 1:21

Christ came that we might die to this world and be born again to the Kingdom of heaven.
Dying is not cost free.

[video=youtube;mBlOX83txt8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBlOX83txt8[/video]

 

[PeterJens]

All you guys prove is you cannot listen to an obvious connection.

Count the cost.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
John 6:54

If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
Luke 14:25-26

Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won’t you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it? For if you lay the foundation and are not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule you, saying, ‘This person began to build and wasn’t able to finish.
Luke 14:28-30

Being a christian costs.

How can this be lying, or all the things you are claiming.
From an early age I learnt to walk with Jesus meant no compromise.
Loyalty, honour, love, truth, sincerity.

It appears these things are not what you claim in Christ.

The proof of how far from the gospel you are are you responses to simple analogies.

Truth is often only truly laid bare when the crucial issues are shown.
The one you mainly hate is the idea we are changed and need to grow and be
transformed by our walk. The fact you hate this is shown in your language and lack
of respect for simple scripture.

 

[PeterJens]

so you did-agree with Paul. no surprise. his words do not agree with the gospel of peterjens.

by the way, in Greek, charisma means an underserved favor, gift of grace. nice try at lying and deceiving. but, as usual -fail

I suppose the simplicity of the difference between us makes its reality profound.
I do not expect you to be nice about it, or even really understand.

What I always seek to do is know at what point the parties separate. Now if you
cannot acknowledge the model and use and why I separate in interpretation from
yourselves, then this is just dogma to you, or a single world view.

And I will continue to seek for good summaries to define our differences.
And as they get better, so the light will glow more brightly.

If you want to take these issues seriously you have to partake and not just
be dismissive. Being dismissive is like the flat earthers saying proof has no
validity. But this is your group, and this warning will go with your position.

 

[PeterJens]

you mean the group that reads the Bible?? as I just said, that is what Paul said. the arrogance of some people.

I have been on here for many years, and have never put anyone on ignore. but it is getting close here. this deceit and lies have no place on a Christian website.

Now, a new ethic which you hate, is Christs gift is cost free.
It makes sense from your behaviour but it is not biblical.

Repentance is not cost free. You have to give up one set of behaviour and
take on another. This could mean breaking friendships, loyalties, upsetting
people you respect and owe things to. For some it will mean dying.

I know of muslims who have come to faith knowing within a year they will die.

There is a phrase, coined long ago
"A man is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot loose."

Now the idea you cannot engage in such a discussion indicates you fear of loosing it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you mean the group that reads the Bible?? as I just said, that is what Paul said. the arrogance of some people.

I have been on here for many years, and have never put anyone on ignore. but it is getting close here. this deceit and lies have no place on a Christian website.

Some people just can't get out of their own way.

I am saddend at that thought that one day it may take them puffing themselves up to Christ, Like they do us, then Christ having to say depart for I never knew you.

Thinking they were righteous, realising FINALLY (ALBEIT TO LATE) how truly sinful they really were, and how they had deceived themselves their whole lives.

 

[ZacharyB]

The message of the finished work of Christ will always be a stumbling block to those of us with a works-based mindset.

The message of Christ will always be a stumbling block to those of us
who refuse to heed the many dozens of warnings in the NT.

The warnings major in: there's MUCH more to salvation than just believing in John 3:16!

Most of you belong to the Laodicean church of Rev 3, and your future is disastrous!

 

[ZacharyB]

Romans 5 v 15- but the FREE GIFT is not like the trespass. for if many died through the one man's trespass, much more surely have the grace of God, and the FREE GIFT in the grace of of the one man.

What you are not willing to believe is:
God's free gift of grace through faith is just the beginning, not the end.
Ditto with John 3:16 and its' friends.
They stand as encouragements for new believers ... to not discourage them!
Milk slurpers are NOT meat-eaters.

After the soft beginning, comes the picking up of your cross, and starting to carry it.
Hating your life, etc. might just be a good idea also.
But, only if you desire eternal life!
Does Jesus lie to us all throughout the 4 gospels?

MOST of the NT stands against you ... and condemns you!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What you are not willing to believe is:
God's free gift of grace through faith is just the beginning, not the end.
Ditto with John 3:16 and its' friends.

After the beginning comes the picking up of your cross and starting to carry it.
Hating your life, etc. might just be a good idea also.
But, only if you desire eternal life!

MOST of the NT stands against you ... and condemns you!

Salvation is of grace, It is not just the begining, It is the MEANS

If your trying to add work to "PERFECT" what God gave by grace in the spirit. Paul calls you a fool (galations)

 

[PeterJens]

There was a time when I would respect those who claimed to know Christ and be swayed
by an expression of doubt.

Only someone who does not know Christ would say there is no personal cost in following Him.

Now two aspects of repentance can be confused by our enemies.
The first is recognising sinful behaviour is condemning it and those who follow it.

Secondly, no longer doing sinful behaviour and doing the right things, or good things is something
to honour and take pride in. Righteousness matters, it is something to be grateful for, and if
we do not have a society that defends it, we have anarchy and only injustice and evil.

If you ever get involved in a war, you know what this begins to look like, and no one who is sane
wants to go there. It destroys everyone, and creates mental wrecks.

Now our pride is in what Christ has done in our lives, not of ourselves but from His grace.

Our enemies and the enemy will always try and destroy anything that stands on righteousness
with all the accusation they can muster, because in their heart they hate it.

And if Christ is not transforming you from one state of glory to another, have you truly known
His transforming power and real repentance in your heart.

 

[gb9]

Now, a new ethic which you hate, is Christs gift is cost free.
It makes sense from your behaviour but it is not biblical.

Repentance is not cost free. You have to give up one set of behaviour and
take on another. This could mean breaking friendships, loyalties, upsetting
people you respect and owe things to. For some it will mean dying.

I know of muslims who have come to faith knowing within a year they will die.

There is a phrase, coined long ago
"A man is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot loose."

Now the idea you cannot engage in such a discussion indicates you fear of loosing it.

peter, I am simply quoting what Paul said in Romans 5. you brought up the greek word charisma. I looked up what it means and posted it. this is straight-forward logical thinking.

I am sorry you do not like what Paul said. I did not say free gift, or underserved favor is one meaning of charisma, Paul did.

we do not get to make the Bible say what we want it to. we read it, accept it as Truth. we do not get to re-phrase , add, subtract , etc.. and change the meaning. that is called heresy.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The message of Christ will always be a stumbling block to those of us
who refuse to heed the many dozens of warnings in the NT.

The warnings major in: there's MUCH more to salvation than just believing in John 3:16!

Most of you belong to the Laodicean church of Rev 3, and your future is disastrous!

God calls it a stumbling block ONLY to the religious, Who think they have to work hard to earn it (in his day the religious jew who thoughts works of the law made them righteous and rejected Grace and Jesus)

If you try to work, You reject jesus

Your future is in doubt,, All I see is heat, and gnashing of teeth.

You can not have both Jesus and works as a means to salvation, You can only have one or the other

 

[Grace777x70]

We have to keep 2 aspects in mind when interpreting scriptures on salvation.

Salvation manifests itself here in this earth and also for going to be with the Lord because we are in Christ - sealed by the Holy Spirit when we believed as Paul said in Eph. 1:13 ; 4:30.


Confuse the 2 and we will come up with all kinds of works-based salvationists views.

There are many warnings about walking by the flesh while here on this earth. Take up shooting heroin in your arms and you will find that out soon enough. Same goes for over-eating and becoming obese - you will meet the Lord faster. All walking by the flesh brings it's own destruction to us while we are in this earth suit.

I believe we have to differentiate between "going to heaven to be with the Lord " salvation and - "being saved from the things that can destroy us here while being on this earth."

There are different manifestations of salvation in Christ - one is going to be with the Lord - the other is concerning the things of this life on earth.

The promised land is a type of being in Christ now - it is not a type of heaven as there will be no giants to fight in heaven.

Moses did not get to rest in what God had already provided for the Israelites - but yet Moses is with God now.

The promised land is a type of living here on this earth by believing in the promises of God. Only Caleb and Joshua were the ones that got to experience the promises of God in the promised land because they believed in what God had said.

We can inherit now in this life some things that are of the kingdom of God because the kingdom of God is within us...however if we don't have our minds renewed to the truth in Christ ( which includes living by the Spirit within us ) - we can not experience the things of the kingdom that are available to us believers.

Scripture uses the same Greek word - " salvation, saved " = wholeness, preservation, keep safe, deliverance, make well - for both being saved from things in this life and for going to be with the Lord for eternity.

If we don't understand this difference we will continually be mis-applying scriptures that talk about "being saved here in this life from things" and "going to be with the Lord".

There is eternal salvation and there is manifestation of salvation from temporal things while on this earth. Confuse the two and we end up with a mixed up message of self-effort for going to heaven and only the blood of Jesus does that.

Jesus is either our Savior for going to be in heaven with Him or we are our own savior by helping Him. One is by grace through faith-righteousness - the other is works-righteousness.

Romans 3:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


Let's just rely on the Holy Spirit to reveal the things of Christ to us. and we will grow up in Christ Himself.

 

[ZacharyB]

"A man is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot loose."
Now the idea you cannot engage in such a discussion indicates you fear of loosing it.

Please don't be like the normal average (purposely-uneducated) idiot American.
lose and losing

 

[PeterJens]

peter, I am simply quoting what Paul said in Romans 5. you brought up the greek word charisma. I looked up what it means and posted it. this is straight-forward logical thinking.

I am sorry you do not like what Paul said. I did not say free gift, or underserved favor is one meaning of charisma, Paul did.

we do not get to make the Bible say what we want it to. we read it, accept it as Truth. we do not get to re-phrase , add, subtract , etc.. and change the meaning. that is called heresy.

I can give a free gift, it does not make it cost free.

I can be given a car by my company to drive.
I have to pay tax on its value, pay for the fuel to run it, tax on using it on the road,
insurance to cover accidents. Then I have to spend time using it to go from a to b.

This gift is not cost free.

Now this is a very simple concept and occurs all over in the world, but somehow you
do not want to accept this reality because it will change your theology.

For me it demonstrates your theology is wrong, and your resistance indicates you know
this yet are unable to move.

This is emotional blindness, and comes with the territory of world views dictate behaviour,
so often will not budge because the cost is too great. It is also why agreeing with God
is so hard for man, however he appears to be, in faith or not.

 

[ZacharyB]

Confuse the 2 and we will come up with all kinds of works-based salvationists views.

Thou must be referring to the dozens of verses in the NT that teach obedience-based salvation.

If not, you belong to the Laodicean church (Rev 3), which is deceived and going to hell.
Jesus says they THINK they're A-OK ... but are nothing but garbage to Him.

Believe me, garbage goes into the garbage dump!

Faith and obedience go hand in hand.

Disobedience proves Unbelief ... Hebrews 3.

You and your buddies here are unbelievers!

 

[gb9]

I can give a free gift, it does not make it cost free.

I can be given a car by my company to drive.
I have to pay tax on its value, pay for the fuel to run it, tax on using it on the road,
insurance to cover accidents. Then I have to spend time using it to go from a to b.

This gift is not cost free.

Now this is a very simple concept and occurs all over in the world, but somehow you
do not want to accept this reality because it will change your theology.

For me it demonstrates your theology is wrong, and your resistance indicates you know
this yet are unable to move.

This is emotional blindness, and comes with the territory of world views dictate behaviour,
so often will not budge because the cost is too great. It is also why agreeing with God
is so hard for man, however he appears to be, in faith or not.

the person who is refusing to believe what Paul said in Romans 5 is lecturing me about " agreeing with God ". this is a new low, even for peterjens.
I will go with what Paul said, not peterjens rejection of it.

 

[Chester]

OUCH! OUCH! OUCH! BANG! BANG! BANG!

I enjoy and appreciate good debate and discussion - but not when it gets to saying the other side is lost, or weak, or whatever else!

 

[FreeNChrist]

"Even to this day, grace remains hard to swallow. Religiosity and moralism go down easier than free forgiveness.” - Robert Farrar Capon