Women Pastors? Help me.

[Magenta]

I have never been to a church where the women don't speak. I firmly believe women are the heart of the church....they have the gift of emotion and sensitivity that brings the congregation together. Men are just as important as women but they hold a different purpose in the church.

I have a voice, a calling, and desires...however if I was married, my husband would have to support me and agree that I can step out in ministry...if not then I will trust his leadership and the role God put him in, in my life. I believe that is where a lot of this goes south because women believe they can do anything they want to do when they want to do it and the bible just does not say that

The Bible says the same for men, too, in that the husband must submit to his wife. As I have said multiple times before, many of the passages under discussion are directed at married couples! But they are being treated by some as if they apply equally to everyone, when they don't. Then we are accused of not reading the Bible properly, and taking things out of context, when that is exactly what they are doing.

 

[renewed_hope]

The Bible says the same for men, too, in that the husband must submit to his wife. As I have said multiple times before, many of the passages under discussion are directed at married couples! But they are being treated by some as if they apply equally to everyone, when they don't. Then we are accused of not reading the Bible properly, and taking things out of context, when that is exactly what they are doing.

The thing is in today's culture women are not respecting the role God placed of man which is leadership. God placed man to be the head of the wife just has Christ is head of the church, plain and simple...it's black and white. Since the women's liberation movement women believe they can do anything a man can do when all it was really created for was equal pay and voting rights. As years progressed it has spiraled out of control. Submission does not include abuse or mistreatment of another as people have been led to believe.

I will give an example....my parents started visiting a church when I was three? Anyways, my dad knew something was not right, just couldn't put his finger on it. My mom wanted to get into ministry and my dad said no and that it wasn't a good idea....before we knew it my sister and my mom and I were in ministry and my dad vocalize to mom to be careful as he didn't want to attend because of this. Years went by the pastor left his wife for his secretary who was also a member of his youth group and just a few years ago it came out that this pastor sexually abused my sister. My dad knew something wasn't right, but couldn't put his finger on it, but he was right and instead of my mom submitting to the role God placed on my dad of leadership we got extremely hurt. This is a perfect example of a woman not placing the value of what God placed on her husband and trusting him for the start. If she would have listened it would have saved a lot of heartbreak

 

[Magenta]

The thing is in today's culture women are not respecting the role God placed of man which is leadership. God placed man to be the head of the wife just has Christ is head of the church, plain and simple...it's black and white. Since the women's liberation movement women believe they can do anything a man can do when all it was really created for was equal pay and voting rights. As years progressed it has spiraled out of control. Submission does not include abuse or mistreatment of another as people have been led to believe.

I will give an example....my parents started visiting a church when I was three? Anyways, my dad knew something was not right, just couldn't put his finger on it. My mom wanted to get into ministry and my dad said no and that it wasn't a good idea....before we knew it my sister and my mom and I were in ministry and my dad vocalize to mom to be careful as he didn't want to attend because of this. Years went by the pastor left his wife for his secretary who was also a member of his youth group and just a few years ago it came out that this pastor sexually abused my sister. My dad knew something wasn't right, but couldn't put his finger on it, but he was right and instead of my mom submitting to the role God placed on my dad of leadership we got extremely hurt. This is a perfect example of a woman not placing the value of what God placed on her husband and trusting him for the start. If she would have listened it would have saved a lot of heartbreak

It is true, women have lost a lot of respect for men because many refuse to really step up to the plate and act like men, and some who are placed in positions of authority simply end up abusing their power, which is what happened in your family. I am very sorry that happened to your sister/your family. The percentage of children (both boys and girls) being sexually abused (by men mostly) is pretty high. But it does not negate the fact that husband and wife are Scripturally admonished to submit to each other. This is not directed at singles, but to married couples. No woman should be forced to submit to any man who is not her husband and does not love her like Christ loves the church. Where are these men? If your father is one, you are extremely fortunate, and have blessings to count for sure.

 

[renewed_hope]

My grandma had her pastoral license. However, she did not give sermons, marry people or even did baptism. People did not even know she had it, except for the pastors of the local churches and my family. Under the leadership of a couple churches and my grandpa she served the community I grew up in. Most of her children and grandchildren including myself helped and supported her in this. She would provide families with food boxes and clothing to those in need of it. There were several times where my grandma wrote a check out of her own personal bank account to give to someone for gas or for a bill even when her and my grandpa couldn't afford to. I remember very vividly watching her and my other grandma walk someone through the gift of salvation. This was a gift God gave her and her husband walked along beside her giving his love and blessing and had the opportunity to minister to others through this. There was this family who came in and their house burnt down and they lost everything, my grandma did everything she could and my dad stepped in and gave one of my Christmas presents from a couple years prior to them as they had small children. I remember watching these kids open this present and seeing the joy come across their faces was something I would never forget. She did not use the fact she was a pastor to do this or to have power over men, like I said most people didn't even know she had it. To this day I come across people who tell me what a blessing she was to them. Could a man do this? Yeah, but they would not have the emotional touch she had, but she had the spiritual covering to do so. She was a very beloved woman who is with our creator and there is no doubt in my mind he was pleased with what she did here

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

Do not care or listen to what people THINK is the TRUTH concerning this topic, Always listen to and believe the Word of God. There is no Scriptures that teach a woman can't preach. But women are to teach women. i believe it was Joyce Meyers that Said her ministry is to the women. She preaches to women all over the world. And yes men listen and hearken to her as well. But she will plainly tell you, her teaching is to women. She does not usurp authority over men nor does she teach men. But if men choose to listen to her, she can't stop them. The thing is, you can teach the Word of God to people without usurping authority over them. It is man that puts a preacher above that he/she is. A True Preacher should be washing everyone's feet as they come into Church, a servant to all.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave

You're thinking is a little flawed in light of Ephesians 5:21...there are places and times in the corporate life of the church where men can submit to the authority of a woman as she teaches or preaches. Let me remind you of Romans 16:1.

Just because you believe what you say above does not negate the Holy Inspired Word of God which plainly teaches women are not to usurp authority over men. Do you think that Inspired Word is incorrect? How is it God's fault if you DON'T believe His Word, but believe the doctrines of men which teach what you say above. Word of God teaches women are not usurp authority over men, but you teach they can in some cases. So which of you should i believe, Both can't be True? Should i believe God or you. God who teach they are NOT allowed, or you which teach they are allowed? People choose God, NOT men.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[LaurenTM]

Does anyone here actually go to a church where the women do not speak at all?

must be anguish and agony for those men in this forum

so many fires to stamp out..............

 

[tourist]

Does anyone here actually go to a church where the women do not speak at all?

Can't say that I do. There are others that also believe that a woman should not wear pants or that it is a sin to play musical instruments as part of a church service. Or that Jesus did not make wine out of water but made grape juice for the wedding guests. Maybe it was Welch's. One can only hope and pray.

 

[John146]

must be anguish and agony for those men in this forum

so many fires to stamp out..............

Private interpretations but no valid Scripture. And please, again, it's not a woman vs man thing. It is all about what God has said.

 

[Dino246]

Private interpretations but no valid Scripture. And please, again, it's not a woman vs man thing. It is all about what God has said.

In your view, "what God has said" was spoken in King Jamesian, in 1611, was absolutely accurate then, and has no need to be re-translated. Your comment here is severely restricted by your previous assertions. It has no more validity to anyone else than Angela's exegesis does to you. "Private interpretation"... well, you called it.

 

[Angela53510]

Private interpretations but no valid Scripture. And please, again, it's not a woman vs man thing. It is all about what God has said.

I could not agree more, John! It is about what God said! And as I have painstakingly shown you, the Bible in no place says women cannot be in ministry. All your straw men have been blown away by the Greek or common sense, or context.


Sad, that not once have you commented on the actual exegetics of my posts, showing how badly some translations and some men have wrongly interpreted some Scriptures and ignored others about actual women like Phoebe that were diakonos, just like the men, or judges, or prophetesses.

Or that words in Greek, from ancient times, before Christianity have certain endings like masculine, feminine or plural that really have nothing to do with the "sex" of a person, but are simply a tradition handed down for centuries. It's too bad that English, unlike languages like French, Spanish, German, Hebrew, etc, does not have this tradition. It would make it a lot clearer that a woman can be called or hold an office/position/ministry that has a masculine word ending!

"Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ." Eph. 5:21

 

[LaurenTM]

Private interpretations but no valid Scripture. And please, again, it's not a woman vs man thing. It is all about what God has said.

irony

absolute irony

 

[proverbs35]

The thing is in today's culture women are not respecting the role God placed of man which is leadership. God placed man to be the head of the wife just has Christ is head of the church, plain and simple...it's black and white. Since the women's liberation movement women believe they can do anything a man can do when all it was really created for was equal pay and voting rights. As years progressed it has spiraled out of control. Submission does not include abuse or mistreatment of another as people have been led to believe.

I will give an example....my parents started visiting a church when I was three? Anyways, my dad knew something was not right, just couldn't put his finger on it. My mom wanted to get into ministry and my dad said no and that it wasn't a good idea....before we knew it my sister and my mom and I were in ministry and my dad vocalize to mom to be careful as he didn't want to attend because of this. Years went by the pastor left his wife for his secretary who was also a member of his youth group and just a few years ago it came out that this pastor sexually abused my sister. My dad knew something wasn't right, but couldn't put his finger on it, but he was right and instead of my mom submitting to the role God placed on my dad of leadership we got extremely hurt. This is a perfect example of a woman not placing the value of what God placed on her husband and trusting him for the start. If she would have listened it would have saved a lot of heartbreak

First, I would like to say that I hate what happened to your sister and the pastor's wife. I hope that the pastor (abuser) will be brought to justice here on earth, and I truly hope that he repents. I pray that your sister and the pastor's wife will find peace and healing.


With that being said, I agree with you. Wives should listen when their husbands are speaking wisdom. Wives shouldn't dismiss or discount what their husbands are saying to them. Likewise, husbands should listen to wisdom from their wives. It goes both ways. There are examples in scripture and the news illustrating what can happen when husbands fail to listen to wisdom from their wives.


The Bible tells us that no could talk to Nabal ( 1 Sam 25:17). The Bible also states that Nabal was a fool ( 1 Sam 25: 25). Proverbs 23:9 says, “Don't speak to a fool, for he will despise the insight of your words.” His wife, Abigail, understood that. As a result, she went behind Nabal's back, against his wishes and sent David and his men bread, water and meat. David listened to wisdom from Abigail and decided not to kill Nabal and the men in his house (1 Sam 25:32-35). When Abigail told Nabal what she had done and how that caused David to spare his life, Nabal had a heart-attack and died. Nabal’s testimony and journey could have been very different had he been willing to listen to wisdom from his wife. (1 Samuel 25:1-42)


In the news …
Eric Richardson - former Cedar Hills, Utah mayor - pled guilty to mortgage and bank fraud in 2012. In a halting voice, Richardson apologized for his actions, especially to his wife and children, and that he should have listened to his wife, who told him not to get involved in the loan deals. "I thought I was a smart businessman who knew something better than my very humble housewife," he said. "I had no business excluding her."


http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/sltrib/money/55268977-79/richardson-judge-loan-federal.html.csp

 

[Tommy379]

must be anguish and agony for those men in this forum

so many fires to stamp out..............

I have died a little on the inside.

 

[StanJ]

Just because you believe what you say above does not negate the Holy Inspired Word of God which plainly teaches women are not to usurp authority over men. Do you think that Inspired Word is incorrect? How is it God's fault if you DON'T believe His Word, but believe the doctrines of men which teach what you say above. Word of God teaches women are not usurp authority over men, but you teach they can in some cases. So which of you should i believe, Both can't be True? Should i believe God or you. God who teach they are NOT allowed, or you which teach they are allowed? People choose God, NOT men.

It's not just what I believe it's what the scripture teaches. All you've basically done here is assert your opinion nor provide nothing by way of scripture that shows or supports your POV. I can see that you read the KJV because you use the exact words that are in the KJV so I suggest you read a more Modern English translation that renders it in today's vernacular. The Greek actually conveys the attitude of domineering, not usurping, as the following translation will show you along with the Greek.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Timothy+2:12&version=MOUNCE

You should believe God and His word, not the fallacious doctrine you learned in spite of his word.

 

[p_rehbein]

and those "others" you speak of rarely adhere to the standards Paul set in his Epistles for the men who would be leaders in the Congregation.........well, from what I have seen anyhoo........

Folks just use what parts of Scripture best fit their desired view of what the Church should be from what I have seen......guess it's normal..........dunno........but it surely is not Biblical.

Can't say that I do. There are others that also believe that a woman should not wear pants or that it is a sin to play musical instruments as part of a church service. Or that Jesus did not make wine out of water but made grape juice for the wedding guests. Maybe it was Welch's. One can only hope and pray.

 

[p_rehbein]

This Holy Word of God revealed that both Deborah and Priscilla had authority over man/men......so, not sure your argument holds water..........but, then........ Should I believe the Holy Word of God or some Denominations interpretation?

Just because you believe what you say above does not negate the Holy Inspired Word of God which plainly teaches women are not to usurp authority over men. Do you think that Inspired Word is incorrect? How is it God's fault if you DON'T believe His Word, but believe the doctrines of men which teach what you say above. Word of God teaches women are not usurp authority over men, but you teach they can in some cases. So which of you should i believe, Both can't be True? Should i believe God or you. God who teach they are NOT allowed, or you which teach they are allowed? People choose God, NOT men.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[samuel23]

1Tim 2:11 let the woman learn in silence with all subjection, but I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the men but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed then Eve, and Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 1Cor 14:34 Let you women keep silence in the churches, for it is not permitted unto them to speak, but to be under obedience for it is a shame for women to speak in church, the things I write unto are the commandments of God.

 

[StanJ]

1Tim 2:11 let the woman learn in silence with all subjection, but I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the men but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed then Eve, and Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 1Cor 14:34 Let you women keep silence in the churches, for it is not permitted unto them to speak, but to be under obedience for it is a shame for women to speak in church, the things I write unto are the commandments of God.

Just like a parrot all you're doing is repeating a 400 year old English translation, and just like that parrot, you obviously don't understand what you are reading. Polly needs an English lesson.

 

[Magenta]

1Tim 2:11 let the woman learn in silence with all subjection, but I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the men but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed then Eve, and Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 1Cor 14:34 Let you women keep silence in the churches, for it is not permitted unto them to speak, but to be under obedience for it is a shame for women to speak in church, the things I write unto are the commandments of God.

A new command I give to you. Does that ring a bell? No, I guess not. Even Paul wrote in many different ways and places that we are not under the law in Christ, and he sternly rebuked those who tried to put others under the law when they were free from the law, which was fulfilled in Christ. All the the law and all of the prophets are fulfilled with one thing. Samuel, do you have any idea of what it is? It is a shame you want to put people back under the law.

Are you keeping the laws? You realize if you fail in one you have failed in all and all count against you? For you have therefore forsaken Christ, and His propitiatory sacrifice on our behalf after He and He alone fulfilled the law, since none other could. Perhaps you need to make up your mind about preaching Christ and Him crucified, or teaching keeping the law, which is what those without Christ are forced to do. You will be judged by the law and found wanting aside from Christ. It is an important decision to make.

 

[KJV1611]

A new command I give to you. Does that ring a bell? No, I guess not. Even Paul wrote in many different ways and places that we are not under the law in Christ, and he sternly rebuked those who tried to put others under the law when they were free from the law, which was fulfilled in Christ. All the the law and all of the prophets are fulfilled with one thing. Samuel, do you have any idea of what it is? It is a shame you want to put people back under the law.

Are you keeping the laws? You realize if you fail in one you have failed in all and all count against you? For you have therefore forsaken Christ, and His propitiatory sacrifice on our behalf after He and He alone fulfilled the law, since none other could. Perhaps you need to make up your mind about preaching Christ and Him crucified, or teaching keeping the law, which is what those without Christ are forced to do. You will be judged by the law and found wanting aside from Christ. It is an important decision to make.

I don't get that one Magenta... all Sammy did was post bible verses.