Women Pastors? Help me.
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Because Debra was not a member of Christ's church.... ?
She lived in a previous era, under a completely different covenant. Nothing that happened under the old covenant establishes a precedent for what is under the new covenant.... hence the "new" part of the new covenant...
sorry if this sounds abrupt, I have to rush off to a dental appointment
and don't have time to elaborate....
She lived in a previous era, under a completely different covenant. Nothing that happened under the old covenant establishes a precedent for what is under the new covenant.... hence the "new" part of the new covenant...
sorry if this sounds abrupt, I have to rush off to a dental appointment
and don't have time to elaborate....
S
She was a member of the congregation of Israel which was the church. the office might have been different but it was still an office of authority and teaching. The New Covenant meant that the law was done away with so that God could have a personal relationship with each one of us it did not mean that the principles he had formed in the Old Testament where to be done away with. New means exactly that and new way of doing things which did not include subjugating woman even more!
Perhaps one could say that Debra influenced authority because of her proximity to it rather than say she exerted authority in place of the king.
Scripture is trying to teach that a woman should not be the head of a local assembly of believers. Women certainly have a ministry in the local assembly but not as it's head. Jesus did not make Mary, His mother, to be head of the disciples but gave her into the care of one whom He trusted.
God does have a natural order of things. It is always troublesome when man goes around Gods order to establish his own.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Scripture is trying to teach that a woman should not be the head of a local assembly of believers. Women certainly have a ministry in the local assembly but not as it's head. Jesus did not make Mary, His mother, to be head of the disciples but gave her into the care of one whom He trusted.
God does have a natural order of things. It is always troublesome when man goes around Gods order to establish his own.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
S
The overseer by that very name is the one that oversees the local church. There is never more than one Overseer in a local church. Whether that translates today to a superintendent of a denomination it's something else to discuss but any organization including the church has levels of authority which does not mean only Jesus as the head.
S
Just because a word does have several connotations does not mean you get to pick and choose which connotation you accept. That is done by the people who Translate the Greek or Hebrew into English because they have the credentials and the wherewithal to understand the context. Anybody who has been studying the Bible for a good amount of time will understand the context used here and realize it is not problematic. Anybody who understands proper biblical hermeneutics doesn't argue about this issue. Only those who are prejudiced against women for whatever reason have a problem with this issue.
Subjugating woman is not a biblical teaching. God has a government designed for at home and another when different families gather together in a assembly. Because of the new reformed order that has to do with women covering their glory, the hair, along with the covering she must be silent.
The only glory is the unseen glory,( by faith.) We walk by faith and not by sight .She is saved from not being able to teach a male through, childbirth.
If God say woman should be quiet in an assembly atmosphere or cover their hair, as a ceremonial law. Why would someone refuse to do the work rather than receiving the blessing by obeying what it says?.
Even the prophetess Deborah acting as a judge would not go unless the king, a male went along.
The only glory is the unseen glory,( by faith.) We walk by faith and not by sight .She is saved from not being able to teach a male through, childbirth.
If God say woman should be quiet in an assembly atmosphere or cover their hair, as a ceremonial law. Why would someone refuse to do the work rather than receiving the blessing by obeying what it says?.
Even the prophetess Deborah acting as a judge would not go unless the king, a male went along.
I am definitely not prejudiced against women at all, maybe with that way of thinking God is prejudice in your mind because he says through the inspired writers:
Ephesians 5:22-24 ESV
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
and:
genesis 3:16 ESV
[SUP]16 [/SUP]To the woman he said,
“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be contrary to[SUP][a][/SUP] your husband, but he shall rule over you.”
And of course the verses that have been posted so many times on this thread, saying that women should remain silent in the assembly.
Its not about being prejudice, its simply what God says very simple and very plain. As I have said throughout this thread, I believe women are just as capable and just as intelligent and just as able in every way as a man, but its simply not the way that God has said he wants it to be. Or even if the verses don't mean what they say, I still plan to obey and not risk the consequences of challenging God, saying he really didn't mean what those verses says.
Ephesians 5:22-24 ESV
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
and:
genesis 3:16 ESV
[SUP]16 [/SUP]To the woman he said,
“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be contrary to[SUP][a][/SUP] your husband, but he shall rule over you.”
And of course the verses that have been posted so many times on this thread, saying that women should remain silent in the assembly.
Its not about being prejudice, its simply what God says very simple and very plain. As I have said throughout this thread, I believe women are just as capable and just as intelligent and just as able in every way as a man, but its simply not the way that God has said he wants it to be. Or even if the verses don't mean what they say, I still plan to obey and not risk the consequences of challenging God, saying he really didn't mean what those verses says.
S
By misrepresenting scripture in that a woman cannot have authority over a man in any circumstances is subjugating women, whether you want to admit it or not. By continuing to mix the two scriptures into one issue shows a deliberate attempt to obfuscate the truth. It is not God's will to be a domineering woman in the household and take spiritual leadership and it is also not God's will that man are domineering in the church and take a domineering role by trying to subjugate women into silence. Obviously women cannot be silent in church if they exercise the gifts of tongues or prophecy, which Paul said to forbid not.
hmmm... you skipped Titus 1:5, which says
and Acts.... speaks of overseers... again, plural... even though it was really talking about how the apostles, as a group, are all overseers/shepherds... and it's talking about Christ's church at large... not individual assemblies.
and 1 Peter? it's talking about our one overseer/shepherd.... Jesus...
Still..... no scriptural reference to any assembly being "led" by ONE person.... but several scriptural references demonstrating multiple elders/overseers/shepherds as almost a requirement.
and 1 Peter? it's talking about our one overseer/shepherd.... Jesus...
Still..... no scriptural reference to any assembly being "led" by ONE person.... but several scriptural references demonstrating multiple elders/overseers/shepherds as almost a requirement.
Hmmmm... that sort of flies in the face of all the words of Jesus when he repeatedly told the disciples "you have heard it said...... but I tell you..... "
The principle of murder being wrong was formed in the OT, but Jesus said that was done away with, that even to hate someone is wrong, let alone murder them.
That whole passage is about how the OT laws have been superseded by Jesus' new law...
The principle of murder being wrong was formed in the OT, but Jesus said that was done away with, that even to hate someone is wrong, let alone murder them.
That whole passage is about how the OT laws have been superseded by Jesus' new law...
Matthew 5:17-20
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil (blood ordinances, for example).
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The blood ordinances, however, were nailed to the cross.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil (blood ordinances, for example).
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The blood ordinances, however, were nailed to the cross.