What causes God to hide his face?

[BeyondET]

Jesus directly quotes Psalm 22. Twelve prophecies of the Messiah
in this Psalm were fulfilled by Jesus Christ, the spotless
Lamb of God Who took away the sin of the world.

Galatians 3:13 says that Jesus became a curse, and suffered under the curse of the Father while bearing our sin, that we might be freed from the curse and given the blessing of Abraham, eternal life through the Holy Spirit. Do you not think He could have felt forsaken as the penalty for sin fell upon Him, the wrath of God satisfied through the propitiatory sacrifice of His righteous blood?

Jesus Christ was dried out in intense suffering, and was crushed like a worm (v6) under the wrath of God in order to extract the precious bright red substance from Him, His sinless blood, which would be applied to men as a precious dye to cover their sin.

Vs 7-8 detail the intense ridicule and humility He suffered on the Cross.
This was literally fulfilled in Matthew 27:39-44.

Vs 9-10 Jesus Christ is the only one who could say this rightfully.
He was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary, born a
sinless child, always righteous, always perfect, always trusting
in God the Father in perfect obedience.

All 12 are detailed here: Messianic prophecies fulfilled in Psalm 22 - The Urbans in Mexico

As I mentioned before its all in how the word is being use in context, I stand firm in my belief that the word wasn't used properly in the context of the cross, God didn't look away but only allowed what happen to him to be, and that is simply what Jesus was stating on the cross not that God forsaken him abandon him. in Greek meaning the word had multiple uses depending on the context..

Under the wrath of God huh that sounds not right at all, more like allowed it then to preform a wrath upon him.
That wrath was from man the Pharisees because they loved their power more..

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Okay, so I have to go for a bit and this has always been difficult for me to drag myself away from talking with you guys but it is even more so lately because something has happened and we are walking more consistently in the Spirit and in love toward each other, so what was hard before has become even more so now.

Remember when God confused their language so they would stop building what they were trying to build? I am beginning to see it working in reverse. He didn't want them to all speak the same language because now that they were all speaking the same language and of one mind in their purpose, He said - now nothing will be impossible for them.

I see that when we all begin to speak the same language by walking all of us in the Spirit in love, that if we keep doing so, nothing will be impossible for us! I have been marveling at it and how we labored and sighed in these threads but that He began to bring unity in His Spirit. It's almost too much for my mind! One begins to walk obediently in love, forgiveness and a bearing with. He refuses to stop, and then another comes alongside. And there are some falls into mud puddles but everyone gets up and starts again to abide and then another comes alongside. And suddenly, there is less falling in puddles and firmer resolve to not let off abiding. That we could labor and struggle for so long and receive such massive blessing from each other suddenly where there were only trickles before at times...I keep bursting into happy and grateful tears, and at the oddest times, over this blessing!

 

[Willie-T]

Okay, so I have to go for a bit and this has always been difficult for me to drag myself away from talking with you guys but it is even more so lately because something has happened and we are walking more consistently in the Spirit and in love toward each other, so what was hard before has become even more so now.

Remember when God confused their language so they would stop building what they were trying to build? I am beginning to see it working in reverse. He didn't want them to all speak the same language because now that they were all speaking the same language and of one mind in their purpose, He said - now nothing will be impossible for them.

I see that when we all begin to speak the same language by walking all of us in the Spirit in love, that if we keep doing so, nothing will be impossible for us! I have been marveling at it and how we labored and sighed in these threads but that He began to bring unity in His Spirit. It's almost too much for my mind! One begins to walk obediently in love, forgiveness and a bearing with. He refuses to stop, and then another comes alongside. And there are some falls into mud puddles but everyone gets up and starts again to abide and then another comes alongside. And suddenly, there is less falling in puddles and firmer resolve to not let off abiding. That we could labor and struggle for so long and receive such massive blessing from each other suddenly where there were only trickles before at times...I keep bursting into happy and grateful tears, and at the oddest times, over this blessing!

The Spirit is working in your mind... renewing it.

What did that confusion of language do? Did it not create division? It made us Greek and Jew, Unbelievers and followers after God. But, along comes Christ, and says that He is going to return us to a time before that tower incident in our beliefs and oneness.

 

[Magenta]

As I mentioned before its all in how the word is being use in context, I stand firm in my belief that the word wasn't used properly in the context of the cross, God didn't look away but only allowed what happen to him to be, and that is simply what Jesus was stating on the cross not that God forsaken him abandon him. in Greek meaning the word had multiple uses depending on the context..

I understand. Neither am I saying God looked away. Yet surely when God's wrath fell upon Jesus, He felt as never before the separation that He so fervently desires to save us from. Jesus said all things for our benefit. The gnashing of teeth, the wailing, that is promised to those whose end is assured by their rejection of God, that is the picture Jesus gave from the cross, without actually wailing or gnashing His teeth. I imagine it is the condition of those as they await judgement, knowing their fate for their rejection of God. How could they not know? Most have heard and some have believed and some have rejected. For me, it took much to move me to belief, so stubbornly set against Him I was! Why He showed such mercy to me, why He relentlessly pursued me as I ran from Him, His long suffering, His patience, His love... His mercy and love, His omniscience, His understanding always was waiting to embrace me and save me from myself, that I might not experience forever after that separation from God and all that is good, and all we are promised in the life to come, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[BeyondET]

I understand. Neither am I saying God looked away. Yet surely when God's wrath fell upon Jesus, He felt as never before the separation that He so fervently desires to save us from. Jesus said all things for our benefit. The gnashing of teeth, the wailing, that is promised to those whose end is assured by their rejection of God, that is the picture Jesus gave from the cross, without actually wailing or gnashing His teeth. I imagine it is the condition of those as they await judgement, knowing their fate for their rejection of God. How could they not know? Most have heard and some have believed and some have rejected. For me, it took much to move me to belief, so stubbornly set against Him I was! Why He showed such mercy to me, why He relentlessly pursued me as I ran from Him, His long suffering, His patience, His love... His mercy and love, His omniscience, His understanding always was waiting to embrace me and save me from myself, that I might not experience forever after that separation from God and all that is good, and all we are promised in the life to come, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

It's quite ok I understand as well, we have different opinions on that matter, I don't believe God sent wrath upon Jesus, Jesus debated the purpose with him in the Garden, so in my mind I just can't grasp that analogy of God bringing wrath upon him, though I can grasp the analogy that God allowed such things to happen upon him..

 

[BeyondET]

One more thing to ponder on IMO,

If God had abandoned him forsake him on the cross, then who was Jesus talking too when He cried out??? If God had abandoned him/ turned away then Jesus would have known that and would have said nothing... So IMO he was speaking to God who was right there the whole time..

 

[FreeNChrist]

One more thing to ponder on IMO,

If God had abandoned him forsake him on the cross, then who was Jesus talking too when He cried out??? If God had abandoned him/ turned away then Jesus would have known that and would have said nothing... So IMO he was speaking to God who was right there the whole time..

The unassumed is the unhealed.

 

[joaniemarie]

Thank God for the New Covenant and we are in Christ joined as one spirit with Him for eternity. God is no more hiding His face from us in Christ then He is still wanting the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

We have a New Covenant built upon better promises and the Blood of Jesus speaks of better things.

It is vital we get our minds renewed to the truths of this New Covenant and walk on securely in Christ and grow up in Him.

just by the title of this thread it shows how many well meaning inquiring believers dont know they r NEW COVENANT SAINTS.!!
we r under a NEW COVENANT that JESUS HIMSLF made with the Father on our behalf because we COULDNT make good on it ouselves.

we NEEDED JESUS our ADVOCATE and that is why we r safe and secure at all times. Gods face will never turn away from His sons. allllllllllll our sins have been atoned 4 IN CHRIST. AS FAR AS THE EAST IS FROM THE WEST SO FAR HAS HE FORGOTTEN OUR SINS AND FORGIVEN US FOREVER. as long as Jesus lives, we r foregiven.

we walk in HIS GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. cant earn being righteous, Jesus gifted HIS righteousness to us as believers. many believers r trying to earn a righteous standing when all along they dont know it was given FREELY at salvation WE R NEW COVENANT SAINTS. and that is mainly why so many of us christians r not living in victory over sin and confusion.

 

[Willie-T]

One more thing to ponder on IMO,

If God had abandoned him forsake him on the cross, then who was Jesus talking too when He cried out??? If God had abandoned him/ turned away then Jesus would have known that and would have said nothing... So IMO he was speaking to God who was right there the whole time..

Not only that, but He was speaking in full hearing of Jews who knew the rest of that Psalm 22 well.... AND that it did NOT stop with just that one verse.

The key to knowing what He really said is to keep on reading in Psalm 22. THAT is what He was communicating to all those listening.

 

[Willie-T]

I understand. Neither am I saying God looked away. Yet surely when God's wrath fell upon Jesus, He felt as never before the separation that He so fervently desires to save us from. Jesus said all things for our benefit. The gnashing of teeth, the wailing, that is promised to those whose end is assured by their rejection of God, that is the picture Jesus gave from the cross, without actually wailing or gnashing His teeth. I imagine it is the condition of those as they await judgement, knowing their fate for their rejection of God. How could they not know? Most have heard and some have believed and some have rejected. For me, it took much to move me to belief, so stubbornly set against Him I was! Why He showed such mercy to me, why He relentlessly pursued me as I ran from Him, His long suffering, His patience, His love... His mercy and love, His omniscience, His understanding always was waiting to embrace me and save me from myself, that I might not experience forever after that separation from God and all that is good, and all we are promised in the life to come, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Uh......... too many places in the Bible tell us that it was NOT God's wrath that fell on Jesus. The Bible actually very clearly spells out WHO it was that killed Jesus, and WHO it was Who saved Him.

 

[Grace777x70]

Not only that, but He was speaking in full hearing of Jews who knew the rest of that Psalm 22 well.... AND that it did NOT stop with just that one verse.

The key to knowing what He really said is to keep on reading in Psalm 22. THAT is what He was communicating to all those listening.

I agree...and I also believe that God was putting His wrath on the sin that Jesus took on Himself so that we could be free. The Father was never being angry or wrathful on His beloved Son - just the sin and Jesus offered His body for this to be done.

It's like a mother coming out to swat the hornets that are stinging her son while he is sitting by a tree. It looks like she is angry at the son but in reality she is taking her vengeance on the hornets that are harming her beloved child.

 

[BeyondET]

The unassumed is the unhealed.

I like that indeed, not sure why people think Jesus was here only in human flesh form but yet his mind wasn't and didn't have a need to ponder on things while in such pain...

 

[oldethennew]

A hard time of a drought

I have been wondering about people who declare they feel God has created a hard
ceiling to their prayers. This has continued for years, though they appear to be
people of faith.

This has not been my experience, rather when I feel lost in the Lord I search Him
out in His word, in my heart, in praise, in things I do and aspire to.

I hold when peace and the seal leave you, there is always a reason in your life,
because the Lord came with a promise of continual communion. Now one could
say there is no definite promise of this, but the whole gospel is our sin derives
from a lack of communion and fellowship with Him and He will never leave us, so
we must have left Him.

Why did Adam fall, because He did not commune with God but chose his own
path.

Why did Israel fall, because they chose Kings rather than have the King of Kings
as their leader.

Why do we fall, because we fail to obey and give our hearts to our King.

=================================================

we who love Jesus, we will fall, and we will bawl and call-out and then crawl to Him
in thankfulness for His Sacrifice and for where has brought us from and for the
understanding of what He is now preparing us for...

REV. 19:7.
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come,
and his wife hath made herself ready.

 

[Magenta]

It's quite ok I understand as well, we have different opinions on that matter, I don't believe God sent wrath upon Jesus, Jesus debated the purpose with him in the Garden, so in my mind I just can't grasp that analogy of God bringing wrath upon him, though I can grasp the analogy that God allowed such things to happen upon him..

Jesus had already stated that it was for the very purpose of dying that He had come into the world. We know His purpose was to take the punishment due us upon Himself. He knew His purpose.

John 12
23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

 

[Magenta]

Uh......... too many places in the Bible tell us that it was NOT God's wrath that fell on Jesus. The Bible actually very clearly spells out WHO it was that killed Jesus, and WHO it was Who saved Him.

Can you show me some of these places that say it was not God's wrath?

 

[Magenta]

I agree...and I also believe that God was putting His wrath on the sin that Jesus took on Himself so that we could be free. The Father was never being angry or wrathful on His beloved Son - just the sin and Jesus offered His body for this to be done.

It's like a mother coming out to swat the hornets that are stinging her son while he is sitting by a tree. It looks like she is angry at the son but in reality she is taking her vengeance on the hornets that are harming her beloved child.

Jesus became sin. Where else then could the wrath that was to fall upon sin, fall?

 

[Magenta]

I ask sincerely. Show me that I may change my view if I am wrong,
that I may in future have a better more correct way of presenting it.

 

[Willie-T]

Jesus had already stated that it was for the very purpose of dying that He had come into the world. We know His purpose was to take the punishment due us upon Himself. He knew His purpose.

And what was the singular "punishment" the Bible decreed for sin?

There was only one thing. Nothing more.

It was no more than death. And that is what Jesus came to do..... simply to die...................... BUT, before He died, Satan thought he saw his big chance to actually MAKE Jesus (God) sin, itself.

Jesus gladly accepted this..... and then He (as our sin) died. All our sin had jumped on Jesus. And He accepted and held onto that sin that stupidly jumped onto Him. And ALL OUR SIN died as Him and with Him, and went to the grave when He went to the grave..... unable to come back out again, because only the original Jesus was resurrected.

 

[joaniemarie]

God hiding His face from a believer is not really a NT concept, however there are times when it seems that God is very close and personal and other times when it seems that God is nowhere to be found and we are just here on our own.

right!! and that is when we believe the bible's words and not our distorted weary feelings that the enemy tries 2 infuse the condemnation through. believe the right and good even when we FEEL wrong and evil.

Jesus gave us the GIFT of HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS and its at those times of being condemned by the enemy we must believ what JESUS did instead of what we feel or what we failed at. we recieve daily the gift of NO CONDEMNATION. another gift many christians dont know about and miss grabbing hold of when it would totally defeat satan.....its our armor. "resist the devil and he will flee from you"

many christians dont know how to resist because they accept the devils condemnation when JESUS HAS ALREADY PAID 4 ALLLLLLL THE CONDEMNATION. PART OF THE MANY GIFTS OF SO GREAT A SALVATION WE HAVE.

 

[Magenta]

One more thing to ponder on IMO,

If God had abandoned him forsake him on the cross, then who was Jesus talking too when He cried out??? If God had abandoned him/ turned away then Jesus would have known that and would have said nothing... So IMO he was speaking to God who was right there the whole time..

Jesus had already stated that everything He said was for our sake, given to Him by the Father.