Hell or no hell

Adstar · Jan 29, 2017

The Lake of Fire is the Place where satan and his followers will be confined..You clearly did not read my Scripture quote from Revealtion 20.. Hell is not the Lake of Fire.. Because Hell is going to be cast into the Lake of Fire.. satan is not in hell,, i never said he was but a lot of his human followers are.. so don't put words that i never said into my mouth.. How about you actually read some posts from other people before relying to them so that you know what people have posted and what they have not posted.. That way you will not be sointent to lie about what another person has said when they have clearly not said it..

So the Scriptures that i quoted totaly destroy your false position.. Enough said,,

DiscipleDave · Feb 5, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Brother, i never said you did think that they were bound. But from reading what you said in a previous post, it seems to me that you do believe Hell exists today. Hence the reason, i said Hell is a prison place, and satan is not bound there today but free to roam, therefore NOT in Hell, which you think exists today. If i am mistaken about that, then i do apologize. i never assumed you thought they were bound, i merely said they are free to roam and not bound to dispute the thought that there would be a need for a Lake of Fire Today, a Hell today.

Ahwatukee said:

Nor have i accused you of believing such.

Ahwatukee said:

As i said, i never said that, nor accused you of believing that, you have misinterpreted something that i have said, and have assumed that is what i think.

Ahwatukee said:

Ah, there it is again, you think the Lake of Fire exists today. Again, i will point out that there is no need for the Lake of Fire to exist right now. The Lake of Fire is a place that satan and his followers will be cast into, in the FUTURE. What purpose would the Lake of Fire serve if it existed today? NONE. Because as i said earlier. satan is free, NOT cast into the Lake of Fire. If then you think the Lake of Fire exists today, then where does Scriptures teach that? Please don't use the parable which also calls the Father in Heaven, Abraham, as your PROOF that Scriptures teach the Lake of Fire exists TODAY, it is a PARABLE.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Feb 5, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

The Book of Life is Not only opened at the Great White Throne Judgement. But it is also opened the Day Jesus Christ returns to the Earth to set up His Kingdom, and His Church is Raptured to be with Him, but only if there name is written in the Book of Life. Please read these verses concerning the Book of Life being opened During the time that Christ Returns to the Earth to set up His Kingdom.

The Ancient of Days Reigns

Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (When Christ Returns, and the Church is Raptured to be with Him, all those that remain, and were NOT in the Book of Life, will worship Him, and He will rule them with a rod. But in order to KNOW who is and who is NOT written in the Book of Life, it is opened at that time when Christ appears.

Rev_17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. (Again, we see yet another verse which refers to people existing After it is known whose names are written in the Book of Life. Also this is a timeframe of the Beast and his time. Which is not during or after the Great White Throne Judgment. But during Judgment Day when Christ Returns.)

Rev_21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.(talking about the New City Jerusalem, that comes down out of Heaven to the Earth, during the reign of Jesus Christ. which this generation falsely believes that is at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ. Which is NOT Scriptural. Jesus Christ will reign on the Earth for one thousand years, and He will reign out of the New City Jerusalem for that thousand years. It is this city that the Saints will reside in there mansion, when they are taken up to be with Christ forever. Jesus and the Saints reign over the Earth for a thousand years, until satan is released and there is a huge battle for the New City. and then once satan loses, the Great White Throne Judgement begins, and casts satan and all his followers into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone forever and ever.)

Rev_22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (notice they will not be allowed to reside in the Holy City Jerusalem.)

my point is, the Book of Life is opened twice. It is opened at the time of Jesus Return to determine who is to be Raptured or left behind, depending solely upon if their name is written in the Book of Life or NOT.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Feb 5, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

True, but what Age are you referring to. The Age of Mankind ruling the Earth, will be over when Jesus Christ comes to the Earth to reign on the Earth for a thousand years, Then the Age of Jesus Reign, starts when the Age of mankind ruling the Earth ends, which is at the point when Jesus Returns to the Earth to set up His Kingdom.

Ahwatukee said:

Great white throne judgment

Click to expand...

Ahwatukee said:

This is True and is Scriptural. But there is another Judgment Day that happens prior to the Great White Throne Judgment.
Judgement Day prior to the 1000 year reign of Christ on Earth, determines who will reign with Him, those whose names are written in the Book of Life, will be taken up with Him, to reign over the entire Earth for a thousand years. This Judgement Day has nothing to do with judgement of satan or his demons, but solely a Judgment Day for HUMANS, to determine who is taken and who is left behind. At the end of the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ on Earth, is when satan, demons, and every human who is not written in the Book of Life will be judged for their crimes against God, and cast into prison, the Lake of Fire.

Ahwatukee said:

This is True.

Ahwatukee said:

DiscipleDave · Feb 5, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Is it not equally True that it would be a false assumption to think that the lake of fire exist today, when there is no need for it?
Here is the Truth. Scripturally speaking we ONLY know that the lake of fire exists at the time of the Great White Throne Judgement. (*) That is TRUE and is indisputable according to Scriptures. Now to say that it exists today, is NOT Scriptural. Now to say that it don't exist today, is likewise NOT Scriptural. What i have been doing is teaching what i know to be True. People adamantly teach that Hell exists today, which i know it does not exist today, but will exist in the Future.

Ahwatukee said:

This is True, but does not negate the Scriptures which teach it is also opened when Christ Returns to reign on the Earth for a thousand years.

Ahwatukee said:

This is True, i have learned something this day. i know Hell does not exist right now, this i know for certain, but as you pointed out, if they were thrown into that lake at the time of Jesus Return, then it most certainly has to exist at that time. So in that you are most certainly correct, and i have learned that it Must exist prior to the thousand year reign of Christ on Earth. Scriptures do not lie, and the above Scriptures clearly said they were cast into the Lake of Fire alive, therefore it must be a time when they were living, and therefore you are correct.

Ahwatukee said:

You are correct, and from this day forward will teach the same. Scriptures can't be broken.

(*) = i have been corrected on this matter, i now know Scriptures teach it exists prior to the thousand year reign of Christ, thanks Ahwatukee for pointing this out to me.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Feb 5, 2017

Adstar said:

If i have done that, then please show where i have done that thing. Is it not wrong for you to accuse me of putting words into your mouth, when i have done no such thing at all. If you think i have then show, where i have said you said something, that you did not say? Everything i said above was in response to what you said in this post.

To this statement, which i quoted you saying, and responded to that statement, is why i wrote what i did above, i did not put any words in your mouth, but merely responded to your own statement of what you said: "Of course hell exists today.. Jesus went there to preach to the souls there" i never said you said anything at all, so then tell me HOW did i put words into your mouth, when i never even said you said anything at all? How? i forgive you for falsely accusing me of doing such a thing.

Adstar said:

If you accuse me of lying about what somebody said, then surely you can back up your accusation where i have done that thing. If you can't back it up, then it is a false accusation from you. So then show where i have done what you are now accusing me of, else let it be known you have accused me falsely. And if you have, i forgive you, seriously, i do.

Adstar said:

i responded to your statement that you made, Not the Scriptures you quoted.

Hell does not exist today, and Jesus did not preach to the souls in Hell. What? Because i once again respond to a statement that you made, i am putting words into your mouth? How so? Maybe you should be more apt to read what is actually being said, than to quickly judge another falsely, or make accusations toward another without giving the proof thereof.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

JesusRules1 · Feb 5, 2017

Mimi84 said:

This is a subject that I do not like,because I do not like to say publicly that there is a hell,but we cannot ignore that there is.Some people may look at people that believe that there is a hell,as a mean and cruel person that would follow a God that would do that to someone,for the punishment does not fit the crime in their mind.

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

The people that took the mark of the beast have punishment for all eternity,but does that include the rest of rebellious humanity.

Psa 63:9 But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth.

The wicked shall go into the lower parts of the earth,which is hot,and dark.Hell is in the lower parts of the earth.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Their worm never dies means that although their flesh rots off their bones,they will still feel the affect of the flesh,which means they still see,so they will know it is dark,for they are cast into outer darkness,and they will still feel,and they will feel the fire as the flesh feels the fire,and they still smell to smell the brimstone and sulfur.

But this is also talking of the people that took the mark of the beast,for all flesh shall come to worship before the LORD,the people that God spared that took the mark of the beast,and went against Israel,that God spared so Jesus and the saints can rule over them,and they look at all the carcases lying on the ground that trespassed against God,and Israel will be 7 months burying the bodies,and God will set His glory among the heathen.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Hell is in the lower parts of the earth,so the earth will be cast into the lake of fire,for it is tainted with sin.

The people who took the mark of the beast will have punishment for all eternity,and do not need to be judged at the Great White throne judgment,for God judged them before the millennial reign,for they took the mark,so there is no way they can have a chance at being saved,for there is no repentance after taking the mark of the beast.

The people at the end of the millennial reign will be judged,and some can be saved at that time,for creation testifies there is a higher power that loves people,for He provided food,and the means to make clothing,and shelter,so they should love that higher power,and people,and their conscience that bears witness between right and wrong,so if they lived according to that truth to the satisfaction of God,they will be able to saved,and all the rest who did not abide by that will be cast in to the lake of fire.

These people did not take the mark of the beast,so will they be punished forever,or will they be burned up,and exist no more.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Jesus seems to be saying everyone that is rebellious all through history shall go away into everlasting punishment.

The only reasoning for that is all sin must be purged with fire,which the earth was tainted with sin,and shall be burned up,and all the works of the earth,and the heavens have been tainted with sin,and shall melt with fervent heat,and the saints receive the Holy Spirit and with fire,to purge them,and the people that were rebellious are wicked for all eternity with no reversal,so it appears as if they have to be purged with fire for all eternity,because God breathed into Adam eternal life,so all people will live forever whether with God,or not,with God a glorified body,without God,feel the affects of the flesh for eternity,for their worm never dies,and the fire shall not be quenched.

Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.

If the wicked go to the lower parts of the earth,and their worm never dies,which means they will feel the affect of the flesh for eternity since they loved the world,they are not annihilated.

It appears as if all the rebellious will have everlasting punishment.

bravethea · Feb 15, 2017

ONLY JESUS CAN SAVE MY SOUL from hell amen

88 · Feb 15, 2017

Mimi84 said:

****my answer is kinda late---yes there is a hell---it will be cast into the lake of fire---the Word does speak of eternal torment---sorry I know this is unpopular----I just studied it for a few days...
[h=3]The Question of Hell and Eternal Punishment - YouTube[/h]

88 · Feb 15, 2017

Mimi84 said:

[h=3]Heaven, Hell & Rob Bell: Dr. Michael Brown's Biblical ... - YouTube[/h]

88 · Feb 15, 2017

88 said:

****I am posting---not joyfully---but in a serious tone---the Biblical teaching on Hell---there has been a lot of emotional responses to this subject---mine included---so this is the beginning of a 7 part series by Dr. Michael Brown's look into the subject of Hell...

pronia · Feb 15, 2017

One has to read Enoch for much in-depth Scripture pertaining to the End Times and the fate of the fallen angels, demons and unrepentant mankind, or sinners who refuse to repent. Brotherly love-john PS --it's okay if you read Enoch because Lord GOD speaks well of our father Enoch. Lord GOD will definitely NOT send someone to 'Hell' for reading Lord GOD's Holy Word. Brotherly love-john

88 · Feb 16, 2017

Mimi84 said:

*****************PART 2************Dr. Michael Brown teaching on Hell and punishment---discussing Rob Bell's book---Love Wins

https://youtu.be/g22bYyV5MF8

pronia · Feb 16, 2017

The body returns to dust. Dust is part of the "elements", or "impure" 'MATTER' that exists in the entitre universe that was created by "elohim: - the gods who made us in their image. Jesus is "PURE" MATTER. He comes from another world. The "fallen gods" have created "man" in their image. But there are a "few" among the physical "men" that come from God the Father. "They" are the "ones" who are not of this world, but of their Father which is greater than Elohim, the ruler of this world. He also judges "unsaved" man's "soul" and if and when that soul is found guilty without the blood of Christ. Without the Name of the Most High God, that "soul" will go into a "body" that has been prepared for it.That "soul" will be cast down in a place where that "soul" will pay for every one of their sins that they committed against the ruler of this world and his laws. Jesus told "us" to agree with our 'adversary' before going to court because if not we will not get out until we pay the very last farthing. "This" is not my teaching. It is from God's Holy Word. Praise Jesus that He came in Mercy and kissed Truth(the baptism of John) and now His people rest in His undying(dying) Grace. Truly Christ has been Most Merciful to free us from 'elhoim's laws of this worldly flesh. Brotherly love-john

88 · Feb 17, 2017

Mimi84 said:

****part 3 of the discussion of Rob Bell book "Love Wins"-----Dr. Michael Brown discusses the reality of Hell and eternal punishment...
https://youtu.be/IQhrmVvhaQY

88 · Feb 18, 2017

Mimi84 said:

*****part 4 of Dr. Michael Brown's discussion of Hell----focus is on Rob Bell's book "Love Wins"...

https://youtu.be/9QRS5eZJCCM

pronia · Feb 18, 2017

...a question fer ya"...Pilate asks Jesus a question...¶...What is Truth?"...what was Jesus' answer?

BillG · Feb 20, 2017

Willie-T said:

it may be today but in the time of Jesus it wasn't. And certainly not before the time of Jesus.
Gehenna is the Greek word for Hebrew Gehinnom which was a small valley in Jerusalem, which I think in the Hebrew bible was known as the valley as the son of Hinnom.

Hinnom was a place where babies were sacrificed to the god of the Ammoites 'Molech' and which we find that Israel also came to worship as well. It has been said that they too sacrifices babies as well. It was also a play where Baal was worshiped.

God despised the false god Molech and made it clear to Israel to have nothing to with him, Leviticus 18:20.
He warned them that if they did then judgment would come their way.
In Jeremiah 19:6-7 we find

Jeremiah 19:6-7
therefore behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord, “that this place shall no more be called Tophet or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter. And I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place, and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies and by the hands of those who seek their lives; their corpses I will give as meat for the birds of the heaven and for the beasts of the earth.

Israel did not listen, God allowed Babylon to overtake them (the house of Judah). And were exiled. 70,years later the Jews were restored back to Israel and that time the valley of Hinnom was changed from a place of child sacrifice and idol worship to a place where basically the corpses of criminals, dead animals and all refuse was thrown into

In the time of Jesus it was basically a place that burnt the trash of the city and in order to do so it had be kept alight 24/7

So as I understand it Jesus never used the word 'Hell' He used the word Gehenna, well actually he wouldn't he would have used the word gah-ee Hinnom which was the Hebrew/Aramaic word to describe the rubbish dump.

I am not aware of any passage in the O.T. that talks about hell as an eternal torment, hot poker up your bum.

If you do let me know.

When Jesus talked about this place who was he talking to?

Luke sees no reason to mention it in either his gospel or the Book of Acts. John sees no reason to mention Gehenna in his gospel, in his 3 epistles or the book of Revelation. Peter ignores it in his two epistles and Paul, author of 14 books of the New Testament counting Hebrews, doesn’t mention Gehenna even one time. How can that be if all of mankind needs to be warned that they could end up in Gehenna? How do you explain that half of the references to Gehenna occur in private conversations between Jesus and his disciples? Shouldn’t Jesus, the disciples, Paul and the Bible as a whole be shouting the warning concerning of Gehenna to the entire world? Shouldn’t someone in the book of Acts which is all about evangelisation have mentioned Gehenna even one time?

As for me and what I think.
Well does it matter?
There are lots of thoughts out there and lots of disagreements.
I may be right you may be wrong.
what I do know though is this.
We can tie each other up with theology and argue about it and we miss the bigger picture.

For God so loved the world he gave his one only son so that whoever believes in him will not perish.
Ive been called to be to people what Jesus has asked me to be.
If by my love people see `Jesus then I am doing the good works that he has asked me to do.

just my limited thoughts

BillG · Feb 20, 2017

Sorry just want to edit my above post but can't see how to do it.

I said "I may right but you may be wrong'
Just want to say that "I may be wrong and you may be right"

I hope I didn't come across as a know it all.

88 · Feb 20, 2017

Mimi84 said:

****Part 5 on The Reality of Hell----Dr. Michael Brown discusses Rob Bell's book "Love Wins"

https://youtu.be/ZMsHVJHvZxc

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