Once saved, always saved. Chosen elect of God?

[PeterJens]

Sometimes I think man can become too knowledgeable and not enough wisdom.

My friends from university days I knew very well.
After I left the community and got married, had kids my whole emotional life
changed, like a total engineering change within.

When I went back to visit them, it was like they were still caught in a bubble
that had not moved at all.

I would say the foundations of who we are emotionally needs to move if we
are to truly walk in maturity and the Spirit. But this is not just more worship
or bible studies. It is touching things that have formed us, often deep
relationships that mean a lot to us, and stages of development that we have
not properly gone through, and new revelations of His love to us.

If you freeze in your life, then nothing moves forward, but in the Lord this side
of life is not often talked about. It is the great unknown, the silence of troubles
not touched on or joys learnt. But if everything is just spiritual, no surprise then.

 

[Grandpa]

Those who think they can lose salvation are probably correct.

James 1:5-8
[FONT=&quot]5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

How do you become double minded? Well, you trust the Lord a little bit, but then you must help Him out with your 'good' works.

So sometimes you are all about faith and other times you are all about works. Double minded.


How does a double minded person become single minded? By faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.[/FONT]

 

[PeterJens]

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
prov 1:7

A fool finds pleasure in wicked schemes, but a person of understanding delights in wisdom.
Prov 10:23

The wisdom of the prudent is to give thought to their ways, but the folly of fools is deception.
Prov 14:8

Life is not that complicated. You get to know someone, fall in love and
start a personal relationship that has depth and meaning and that changes
you.

Sometimes being too analytical can be destructive because there are no
real answers until things have clarified.

On this site I have never had so many people whose aim is to undermine
the deepest parts of my walk with the Lord. Just the intention is enough
to make you wonder what love of the Lord they have.

We have one walk, with our hearts and with the heart of God, so let us
praise the King, for he is the chain breaker.

 

[PeterJens]

So would you say that man is capable himself to choose good without God's intervention? your not clear..one minute it sounds like you are saying that then in another sentence you seem to change your mind? (When I say good I mean morally good-that only the Spirit can wrought in people)

Man cannot know morality without communion with God.

I tried to form a morality framework without reference to God, and it is impossible.
The creator defines the rules and objectives. Without this, corruption sets in, boundaries
are crossed and death comes in.

The problem with morality standing by itself is it works as long as it is in the shadow
of Gods influence, ie a christian society. Once it gets too far away it becomes chaos.

So I am not a preterist, nor do I believe man is moral in his own right.
I am though staggard that our biggest life problem centres on love and understanding.
And Christs answer is love through the cross which meets and overwhelms this need.

But you might be surprised to learn sinners are not so good at realising this and
lowering their defences lol. even to the King of Kings.

 

[gb9]

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
prov 1:7

A fool finds pleasure in wicked schemes, but a person of understanding delights in wisdom.
Prov 10:23

The wisdom of the prudent is to give thought to their ways, but the folly of fools is deception.
Prov 14:8

Life is not that complicated. You get to know someone, fall in love and
start a personal relationship that has depth and meaning and that changes
you.

Sometimes being too analytical can be destructive because there are no
real answers until things have clarified.

On this site I have never had so many people whose aim is to undermine
the deepest parts of my walk with the Lord. Just the intention is enough
to make you wonder what love of the Lord they have.

We have one walk, with our hearts and with the heart of God, so let us
praise the King, for he is the chain breaker.

and thus is the mindset of peterjens- anyone who disagrees with him is trying to " undermind his walk with the Lord" me thinks someone spends way to much time thinking about themselves.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I don't want to derail but I just have to say, peter, that somewhere you just said again something about mystics and mystical. I laugh every time I hear you say it because if you were to read some of the men from centuries ago who are referred to as mystics, you would be surprised to find that they talk about the same things you do!! Our walk, growth in sanctification and the virtues, etc. They talk about a dead faith but without an intimate walk, etc. So I laugh every time you refer to mysticism as a bad thing because you ARE a mystic.

 

[PeterJens]

and thus is the mindset of peterjens- anyone who disagrees with him is trying to " undermind his walk with the Lord" me thinks someone spends way to much time thinking about themselves.

lol. I remember a contributor saying with the right teacher I could make real progress.
I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, I expect it, but I do not expect to
be told I do not know Christ. It is like going up to a physicist and saying they do not know
physics, or a doctor that he does not know medicine, or an mechanical engineer that he does
not know how an engine works. It is just plain stupid. But maybe I give too much credit
for following Christ rather than the enemy from their behaviour.

 

[PeterJens]

I don't want to derail but I just have to say, peter, that somewhere you just said again something about mystics and mystical. I laugh every time I hear you say it because if you were to read some of the men from centuries ago who are referred to as mystics, you would be surprised to find that they talk about the same things you do!! Our walk, growth in sanctification and the virtues, etc. They talk about a dead faith but without an intimate walk, etc. So I laugh every time you refer to mysticism as a bad thing because you ARE a mystic.

Ah you spotted my own contradiction. Exposed, where will I go.
I am using the term for gnostic dualism, and not being correct.

The fact I am born again means I have a mystical relationship with God
through Christ. My heart delights and fills me with awe much of the time,
which is very spiritual. So maybe I need a labelling refit, have to wait for
the labelling engineer to retool me, lol.

Also I have noticed I might actually be more mystical than certain people.
My eyes have been opened to the fact that cynicism and unbelief has taken
the meaning of words away from us and this quenches the Holy Spirit.

Also my reading of scripture has quickened so much to me, I see things in
a different light than before. So who am I to know where I stand in this wonderful
walk we share with our King.

 

[PeterJens]

if you were to read some of the men from centuries ago who are referred to as mystics

You have got me interested. Which mystics are you referring to?
I am more a thinker than a reader, I am very uneducated on this front.
I am very interested in others who have gone down similar chains of thought.

 

[phil36]

Man cannot know morality without communion with God.

I tried to form a morality framework without reference to God, and it is impossible.
The creator defines the rules and objectives. Without this, corruption sets in, boundaries
are crossed and death comes in.

The problem with morality standing by itself is it works as long as it is in the shadow
of Gods influence, ie a christian society. Once it gets too far away it becomes chaos.

So I am not a preterist, nor do I believe man is moral in his own right.
I am though staggard that our biggest life problem centres on love and understanding.
And Christs answer is love through the cross which meets and overwhelms this need.

But you might be surprised to learn sinners are not so good at realising this and
lowering their defences lol. even to the King of Kings.

I'm sorry Peter I am still not sure what you are trying to say. Lets stick to one thing at a time..makes it easy for both of us.

What do you mean here, and when does corruption set in..ie, are you born corrupt, or does it happen later on at some point? these are all import when looking at what is called OSAS.

 

[PeterJens]

I'm sorry Peter I am still not sure what you are trying to say. Lets stick to one thing at a time..makes it easy for both of us.

What do you mean here, and when does corruption set in..ie, are you born corrupt, or does it happen later on at some point? these are all import when looking at what is called OSAS.

Our lack of communion with God will always lead us to sin out of defence
of who we are and to deal with hurt and pain. Without God, hurt and pain
will always defeat us.

 

[phil36]

Our lack of communion with God will always lead us to sin out of defence
of who we are and to deal with hurt and pain. Without God, hurt and pain
will always defeat us.

I understand that Peter, your still not being clear.. when does corruption set in...is it from the womb or does it happen at a later date? I take it you don't believe from the womb?

 

[Hungry]

You have got me interested. Which mystics are you referring to?
I am more a thinker than a reader, I am very uneducated on this front.
I am very interested in others who have gone down similar chains of thought.

I fear that Christians total opposition to mysticism and the occult prevents them from seeing the plain and simple truth. I'm not saying for a second that you should practice anything but studying it sure fills in a lot of blanks. Everything around us is all energy, vibration and frequencies. Jesus refers to himself as Light. Light is energy. He is the Word. Words are sounds, vibrations and resonance. Certain vibrations and frequencies effect our moods, even our DNA. Communication with God, miraculous healing and even us becoming a new creation are all explained through understanding these things.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You have got me interested. Which mystics are you referring to?
I am more a thinker than a reader, I am very uneducated on this front.
I am very interested in others who have gone down similar chains of thought.

I just dug through my entire bookshelf, laboring to find which man or woman to introduce you to first, since I have talked with you a lot. The man I think you should read first and that you will most share a bond with is Blaise Pascal. The title of the book is The Mind on Fire.

I know what you want to talk about and I know the loneliness. This man will be a good companion to you. So he is the mystic you should begin with in my opinion.

 

[PeterJens]

I understand that Peter, your still not being clear.. when does corruption set in...is it from the womb or does it happen at a later date? I take it you don't believe from the womb?

You are asking the wrong question.
How are evil desires started or distorted?
Without Gods influence they distort themselves.
Sexual desire is fine, but without focus, inspires fantasy on any target
with restriction or confinds so slowly gets worse and more sinful.

Anything without restraint or balance will go astray.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Waiting on an email from preacher, not stopping until opinion is truth. Even though he will probably say we just studied the book of James. He a retired Navy guy so he very to the point and no crap. But I giving some of you some doubt but every fiber in my body knows how we live can affect our eternal home.

 

[phil36]

You are asking the wrong question.
How are evil desires started or distorted?
Without Gods influence they distort themselves.
Sexual desire is fine, but without focus, inspires fantasy on any target
with restriction or confinds so slowly gets worse and more sinful.

Anything without restraint or balance will go astray.

What you have said is not particularly factual.. Even with constraints and/or balance things still go astray.. so bang goes your thoughts above. A good biblical example is the school master.. and yet people still broke the rules with no balance. Good and bad is not ying and yang balancing each other out, or more to one side with influence. I have only asked you a simple question yet you are trying your hardest not to answer in the guise os some form of mystic speak (not very well i might add).

I am asking the right question, because are evil desires come from our own corrupt nature. So hopefully you can clear this matter up easily, when does one become corrupt (morally) are you saying only when one acts upon his own desires or before that?

 

[Ariel82]

Waiting on an email from preacher, not stopping until opinion is truth. Even though he will probably say we just studied the book of James. He a retired Navy guy so he very to the point and no crap. But I giving some of you some doubt but every fiber in my body knows how we live can affect our eternal home.

How we live reflects where our heart is. Some lie to themselves but God knows.

 

[Ariel82]

Sometimes I think man can become too knowledgeable and not enough wisdom.

Sometimes people have too much worldly wisdom and no heavenly wisdom.

 

[gb9]

What you have said is not particularly factual.. Even with constraints and/or balance things still go astray.. so bang goes your thoughts above. A good biblical example is the school master.. and yet people still broke the rules with no balance. Good and bad is not ying and yang balancing each other out, or more to one side with influence. I have only asked you a simple question yet you are trying your hardest not to answer in the guise os some form of mystic speak (not very well i might add).

I am asking the right question, because are evil desires come from our own corrupt nature. So hopefully you can clear this matter up easily, when does one become corrupt (morally) are you saying only when one acts upon his own desires or before that?

hi phil,
you and I have not interacted much if at all, so forgive me for jumping in here, but I just wanted to tell you-peterjens does not give simple, straightforward answers. you get a lot of rhetoric, verses plucked out of context, and lecturing about how righteous he is. but no straight answers. just a heads-up.