why does" Grace" change the word?

[followjesus]

Especially when the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak; therefore what is impossible of man , is possible with God.

So the initial call at salvation was never about repenting from all sin; what sinner can do that when He needs Jesus Christ in him to depart from sin? The only requirement of repentance at salvation is repent from unbelief by believing in Him.

Mark 9:[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.[SUP]24 [/SUP]And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Then His disciples are to disciple believers on His words of what they need Him for to repent from as well as to help them do the things that He has taught which is to love others; even their enemies when it is possible as He leads.

There are a lot of saved believers out there that do not go beyond trusting Christ as their Savior to trusting Him as their personal Good Shepherd. They read Psalm 23 at funerals, but they do not apply it to how they follow Him as their Good Shepherd... and even I need His help to remind me when going through the storms in my life.

So do we not really need to rely on Jesus ALL the time for living as His? I do. So why look to the sinner to "truly" repent when we should be pointing the sinner to Him to help them truly repent? So let us say what we really mean because Jesus will finish the race for us when we rest in Him to do it. Is it any wonder why the crowns we receive, we cast at His feet? The crowns are His crowning achievements in us when we trust Him to do it. It is His glory; & we shall thank Him for it.

[video=youtube;_rR_Rdb1CTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR_Rdb1CTE[/video]

To think of all the garbage that the Lord has helped us through; so point sinners and christians that live in sin to the One Whom is able to deliver them from their bondage to sin & to death so they can rest in Him for all things & be joyful in Him.

2 Timothy 4:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

You seem like a person who is able to discuss with a good intention. i want to ask you an honest question and will look for your reply when you are able to leave it. Where does a person find the " rest in the finished work " doctrine in the scriptures? I ask this because there is so much telling us " work, run as if you are in a race, make every effort" things Like Paul ( who gets credit for the rest in the finished work doctrine" But paul says so much about His own efforts in Keping with the gospel things Like this

1 corinthians 9:24-27 "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.25And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

to me this isnt saying rest, dont worry about it your already saved, to me this and so much Like it is sayng " make every effort to be found spotless and blameless" as peter says. or maybe this example from paul

philippoians 3:12-16 "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing."

isnt paul saying that HE is striving to lay hold of the same thing Jesus reached to la hold of for Him? and then he says " we all should be like minded after saying How His life was spent following the Lord, striving for the prize ect.

this really is a recurring message from Jesus, paul, peter, john ect. I honestly dont see the " finished work just rest jesus will do it for you" i see more this way because this principle recurs over and over from the teachings of Jesus about the good servant, and the wicked One, from the ten virgins parable, from the unfogiving debtor parable, the truth is that Jesus died for us, so that we could live for God with all our heart, mind, strength in response, things Like " you are my friends if you do what i command" things Like " why do you call me Lord lord and do not do as i say?" Grace is meant to make us Zealous for good works, we are created in Christ for good works God prepared in advance for US TO DO.

 

[stonesoffire]

I believe in grace, Christ on the cross, God become man executed by evil men to get rid
of the threat to the power of the temple, but became the atoning sacrifice for all who
believe. It is the staggering nature of this act that is our foundation, our rescue, our
life, and its realisation that through this we find complete healing for our souls.

But I do not think this is what the movement means here, because they have not repented
deeply, or know what bowing at the foot of the cross really means, or finding healing within
and perspective by seeing Christ dying for us everyday, in all that we do and say.

But the lie is "religion" destroyed redemption and sanctification, when it is hard hearts and
closed minds who shut God out but use the words as if they have meaning.

Peter, the step from religious thinking for me came from seeing that the blessing of Abraham is Spirit. I'd heard of his prosperity, but prosperity in truth is favor which we already have yet live as if we must earn it. The step beyond being redeemed and sanctified by the work of Holy Spirit is resurrection life.


Gal 3:14 That the blessing ofAbraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The living way....yet we Labor to come to the realization of what we are. Truly the rest of God when we stop trying to be something or do something...and let Him work through us.

 

[followjesus]

We have agreement and disagreement followjesus. Live out of Spirit, not flesh is the living way that Hebrews speaks of. It's His work. Not of us or it's polluted. The rules we make...if it comes out of...we must do....it's not grace.

can you show any of those ideas in the scripture? honest question. the rules "we" make? so then

IF YE keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love....

seems like thats something we need to do to me. or maybe paul

romans 2:5-10 "But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to HIS DEEDS: 7To them who by patient CONTINUANCE IN WELL DOING seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and DO NOT OBEY THE TRUTH, BUT OBEY UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that DOETH EVIL, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that WORKETH GOOD to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: "


to me, theres plenty for us to do to honor the price paid for our redemption. and what we ourselves do will determine much more than a " rest in the finished work" idea . id also ask you. can you explain where we find the teaching in scripture about Jesus did everything already so we have no role, no duties? i see things Like paul teaches here coming from this

matthew 16:24-27 "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and FOLLOW ME. 25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward EVERYMAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS. "

this is the recurring lesson from Jesus to paul. what we do with the gift we have been given will determine our eternal destination. Without Jesus it wouldnt matter what we did. with Jesus it matters greatly because thanks to Him, we are offered eternal Life, because of Jesus we now can attain the resurrection, by simply having Faith in Him meaning, through faithfulness.

 

[stonesoffire]

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 

[stonesoffire]

It all comes down to one question. Who and what are we trusting in? The work of Jesus or our own?

 

[followjesus]

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

define " works of the Law"

 

[stonesoffire]

Law is what controls the actions of men.

Define hearing of faith..

 

[followjesus]

It all comes down to one question. Who and what are we trusting in? The work of Jesus or our own?

How does God work? God SAID " Let there be light and there was Light.....

Jesus "john 14 :10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

Trusting in Jesus means we trust His words. to follow the spirit is to follow the words of Jesus

john 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

if we trust in Jesus, we will obey Him. If Our faith isnt in Jesus, we will find no reason to obey Him. faith is what we do in response to the true Knowledge of God. His work was to give us new life, freedom from sin, by teaching us the truth and overcoming the deception of eden. the truth was " the fruit will kill you dont eat it" the deception was " what God said isnt true, He is keeping something good from you, you dont need to obey God, you wont die" it is all about what God has said. and God has said from the beginning, do what i am telling you and you will live. anyone with faith in God, will have no issue with obedience, because it is the expression of faith.

 

[LaurenTM]

I see LIVE BY THE SPIRIT all over the place

but I do't see these same people who say it constantly, explain what that is ... TO THEM

how does the Spirit of God lead you to live BY Him?

I see alot of words, but few examples

I have given plenty of examples in my 2 years + here....these are not just words to me

definitions are becoming split hairs and I don't want another video or web site link

Christians need to be able to express their faith in reality otherwise it's a hot air balloon

note: don't take that last sentence to mean I think y'all are just talking up your sleeve or blowing smoke

however, what I say is so...some post an awful lot about what they think something is, but how does that translate into reality?....and please no defensive posts in response...notice I didn't mention anyone in particular

 

[followjesus]

Law is what controls the actions of men.

Define hearing of faith..

Law controls the actions of men? thats the definition of "works of the Law"?

 

[LaurenTM]

define " works of the Law"

what is required

a believer will work out of their new nature...that is changed going forward...ie not a one time or positional only place of being

some here are allergic to the words 'die to your flesh' or 'crucify your flesh' and try to separate what Christ said from what Paul states and end up not understanding either

you can create works out of ordinance or works from grace

one is law and the other is love against which there is no law

 

[LaurenTM]

Law controls the actions of men? thats the definition of "works of the Law"?

no it isn't

please see my post above

 

[stonesoffire]

Law controls the actions of men? thats the definition of "works of the Law"?

Well, yes. Isn't that the purpose of law? All laws.

 

[followjesus]

I see LIVE BY THE SPIRIT all over the place

but I do't see these same people who say it constantly, explain what that is ... TO THEM

how does the Spirit of God lead you to live BY Him?

I see alot of words, but few examples

I have given plenty of examples in my 2 years + here....these are not just words to me

definitions are becoming split hairs and I don't want another video or web site link

Christians need to be able to express their faith in reality otherwise it's a hot air balloon

note: don't take that last sentence to mean I think y'all are just talking up your sleeve or blowing smoke

however, what I say is so...some post an awful lot about what they think something is, but how does that translate into reality?....and please no defensive posts in response...notice I didn't mention anyone in particular

Jesus tells us how to receive the spirit, and how to hear the spirit, what guides and keeps the spirit John 14

If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.....Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I HAVE SAID unto you....


thats pretty straight forward from the Source of salvation Himself, the one who offers the spirit and sent it from the throne upon His ascention. Jesus Knows all things and really makes them plain

 

[stonesoffire]

The OT covenant was a contract and anyone who lives under the law must perform accordingly. You do this, I'll do that. Still requiring blood sacrifice for failure.

The NT covenant is a will of inheritance. Benefits of hearing by faith. Is this not so?

 

[Enow]

i think thats a problem alot of folks deal with, by plucking a vers or two from what is a ctually being said in the Word. its like a person telling another what a great novel is about, yet....they are quoting a sentance or two. Sure, we can trust in Jesus to help us in our weaknesses, this according to His words. and Faith is enough. the thing is though Faith isnt an inward thought that Jesus is Lord, it is to Live Life as if Jesus is Lord. One way will lead to "away from me you workers of iniquity" the other way will led to " welcome thy good and faithful servant to the kingdom prepared for you"

rather than choose which verses to believe and form an idea, were suppose to learn and believe all of the word, not just the verses with the word Grace. Just LikeMoses and the isrealites, Gods grace is the sourse of His goodness to us, that in no way changes Our role in serving God with all our heart. truly if your not looking to simply argue.....Let me ask you " who would sincerely Believe in Jesus given all the word says of Him, and then disregard the many things Like this that He says"

john 14:23-26 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

who is bold enough to say " I love Jesus " but His word His teaching and commands have nothing to do with Loving Him?

Let's examine the message in the context you are quoting from. You could very well link John 14:23-26 with John 14:16-17 with the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Spirit. Now if we are to keep all His commandments in order to receive the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Spirit, then when are we supposed to receive Him when the reward for receiving Him is dependent on keeping all His commandments until....?

So something is not right here since we all know that we receive the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ; not by the deeds of keeping all of His commandments.

So let's go back to what those commandments are in the context of the message you were quoting from.

John 14:Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [SUP]2 [/SUP]In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
[SUP]10[/SUP]Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

[SUP]13[/SUP]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

so that was the commandments in verse 15 from His very own words, repeated over and over again; "Believe Me" as this was about His commandments on how we are saved; and not about how to be His disciples. It is in John 15th chapter are the instructions AFTER we had been saved by Him to abide in him in being His disciples so that we may bear fruit.

Grace doesnt change Obedience, it forgives the sinful lives we lived beforehand that had seperated us from God. If we accept that and go on living the same sinful Lives, we are serving the same master that destroyed our relationship with Him to begin with. we are to obey everything He taught......

We are to obey Him by believing in Him; not just for our salvation that we are saved, but for living this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ; not by your obedience, but by your faith in Him that He will help you to follow Him. That is the only real obedience required of you is to continue to believe in Him and not resort to your own will power.

matthew 28:18-20 "Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

All power has been given unto Who? Us? Or God?

if i just embolden parts of this i can say " look baptoism is all that matters v19. if i say that verse is all that applies...But the thing is, why would i do that when that is to omit the rest of whats being said? if i do that it changes the message from the Lord that says " teach them to observe everything that I have commanded you... there is no reason for us to pluck what we want to hear from the word, Our place is to learn it and believe it, apply it to Life.

His baptism with the Holy Ghost is all that matters. Water baptism is not a means to salvation, but a public witness of your new found faith in Jesus Christ, but it is not essential to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost at your salvation. The Gentiles had received the promise before water baptism ( Acts 10:43-48 ) and Paul said he was not called to baptize but to preach the gospel as it is by hearing the gospel is when one believes is the power of the gospel in how we are saved.

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]17[/SUP]For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.[SUP]18[/SUP]For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God....[SUP]21 [/SUP]For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

If water baptism is required for salvation, then the cross of Christ would come to no effect, because that would be saying it was not enough, but we know it was enough.

Colossians 1:[SUP]20 [/SUP]And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled[SUP]22 [/SUP]In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:[SUP]23 [/SUP]If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Water baptism is an ordinance for new believers to follow as "seeking to be His disciples" which is still by His grace & by His help, because laying aside every weight & sin is the race as we are not perfect yet, but it is run by looking unto the author & finisher of our faith which is why we can rest in Him to help us to follow Him as He is able to finish His work in us.

 

[followjesus]

The OT covenant was a contract and anyone who lives under the law must perform accordingly. You do this, I'll do that. Still requiring blood sacrifice for failure.

The NT covenant is a will of inheritance. Benefits of hearing by faith. Is this not so?

and gladly, "the hearing of Faith defined"


Hebrews 11:7 "BY FAITH Noah, being WARNED OF GOD of things not seen as yet, MOVED with fear , PREPARED an ark to the SAVING OF HIS HOUSE; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH."


(Please dont take offense by the capitols i dont really know how to italicize or make bold so i use capitols for emphasis)


Noah Heard God tell Him a flood was coming, and God told Him to build an ark, noah heard God and obeyed did the work of God and then He saved His family and really.....Mankinbd was saved by Noahs obedience upon the provision of God....do you kind of see how " Noahs Hearing of Faith" saved Him and also his family? Yet, though He was saved By His response to what God said, that is His faith....It is of Grace because the scriptures beforehand say " Noah found favor with God, being righteous among the wicked of His time" So then God went by Grace though the world was condemned to be destroyed, God told Noah " the world is condemned and will be destroyed......but you noah you build an ark...He gave him many instructions and noah obeyed Him.


Why did noah obey God?


Because Noah Believed what God was saying. This is How it says Noah is saved by Faith and becomes " the heir to the righteousness that is by Faith. That is my " Hearing of Faith" I think look at the verse and search for " who hindered you from OBEYING THE TRUTH Part of the equation. all of it goes together. sorry im not trying to argue or anything, this is Just my own way of seeing it wich i believe, trying to just discuss, learn share grow ect...God bless its okay to disagree i think it leads to deeper considerations on things we might not think of ....

 

[Enow]

You seem like a person who is able to discuss with a good intention. i want to ask you an honest question and will look for your reply when you are able to leave it. Where does a person find the " rest in the finished work " doctrine in the scriptures? I ask this because there is so much telling us " work, run as if you are in a race, make every effort" things Like Paul ( who gets credit for the rest in the finished work doctrine" But paul says so much about His own efforts in Keping with the gospel things Like this

1 corinthians 9:24-27 "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.25And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

to me this isnt saying rest, dont worry about it your already saved,

Paul mentions the race again here...but he shares HOW you run that race........

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,[SUP]2 [/SUP]Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

So run by faith in Jesus Christ to finish, because as you quoted....therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: is Paul way of saying that I cannot do it for if I fight, I would fight with uncertainty as one that beateth the air, and so he goes back to Whom Paul is preaching about of Whom he has faith in to subject his body to in submission, lest he be a castaway as one departing from faith and trying to finish it by the flesh.

to me this and so much Like it is sayng " make every effort to be found spotless and blameless" as peter says. or maybe this example from paul

philippoians 3:12-16 "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing."

isnt paul saying that HE is striving to lay hold of the same thing Jesus reached to la hold of for Him? and then he says " we all should be like minded after saying How His life was spent following the Lord, striving for the prize ect.

I suppose it depends on how you define "press" in that verse. You see "man's striving" and I see "lean on Him for" since it is an upward call of God IN Christ Jesus; not In you as per your flesh or will power.

this really is a recurring message from Jesus, paul, peter, john ect. I honestly dont see the " finished work just rest jesus will do it for you" i see more this way because this principle recurs over and over from the teachings of Jesus about the good servant, and the wicked One, from the ten virgins parable, from the unfogiving debtor parable, the truth is that Jesus died for us, so that we could live for God with all our heart, mind, strength in response, things Like " you are my friends if you do what i command" things Like " why do you call me Lord lord and do not do as i say?" Grace is meant to make us Zealous for good works, we are created in Christ for good works God prepared in advance for US TO DO.

The rest promised is found here.

Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[SUP]2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.....[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Jesus promised that rest here when we come to believe in Him at our salvation;

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.[SUP]26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.[SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

When Paul or any of His disciples speak of what the believer has to do.. like running the race.. or enduring.. or whatever...it is by believing in Him to do it that He will carry you even when it is too much for you. That race.. the enduring.. can only be done by what? By faith in Jesus Christ... by trusting Him at His word.

No one that puts their trust in the Lord shall be put to shame.

So to run that race.. to be able to endure.. is to believe Him that He is able to finish what He has started in you to His glory.

How else can a believer not have the foot of pride in Heaven as if he earned that crown all by himself? Why else would the elders throw their crowns at His feet unless those crowns are really His crowning achievements in them?

Ephesians 2:[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.[SUP]10[/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

For all those "struggling" believers out there that are ready to quit and had enough... I pray you will surrender trying to do His work in you by keeping your commitments & promises, and say honestly to Jesus Christ, "I can't do it, but if You set me free from all yokes of bondages that I am supposed to be trusting You to do, I am ready to receive not only Your help to rest in You and all Your promises to me, but to receive Your help to follow You."

In this way... by living by faith... is the only way a believer can get to know Him & the power of His resurrection when they see that sin has no dominion over their lives AND be able to do that which is not in their flesh to do; love their enemies as Christ loved them.

So how do you run that race? How do you endure? By keeping all your hopes on Him & His promises to us? Then we know what Paul & His disciples mean when we take everything in context and in regards to Whom we place our faith in.

 

[followjesus]

and gladly, "the hearing of Faith defined"


Hebrews 11:7 "BY FAITH Noah, being WARNED OF GOD of things not seen as yet, MOVED with fear , PREPARED an ark to the SAVING OF HIS HOUSE; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH."


(Please dont take offense by the capitols i dont really know how to italicize or make bold so i use capitols for emphasis)


Noah Heard God tell Him a flood was coming, and God told Him to build an ark, noah heard God and obeyed did the work of God and then He saved His family and really.....Mankinbd was saved by Noahs obedience upon the provision of God....do you kind of see how " Noahs Hearing of Faith" saved Him and also his family? Yet, though He was saved By His response to what God said, that is His faith....It is of Grace because the scriptures beforehand say " Noah found favor with God, being righteous among the wicked of His time" So then God went by Grace though the world was condemned to be destroyed, God told Noah " the world is condemned and will be destroyed......but you noah you build an ark...He gave him many instructions and noah obeyed Him.


Why did noah obey God?


Because Noah Believed what God was saying. This is How it says Noah is saved by Faith and becomes " the heir to the righteousness that is by Faith. That is my " Hearing of Faith" I think look at the verse and search for " who hindered you from OBEYING THE TRUTH Part of the equation. all of it goes together. sorry im not trying to argue or anything, this is Just my own way of seeing it wich i believe, trying to just discuss, learn share grow ect...God bless its okay to disagree i think it leads to deeper considerations on things we might not think of ....

Just to continue on with this, because its really good stuff, to show it relating in the Gospel Loook at stuff Like This that Jesus always goes back to in His teachings

Matthew 7:21-27"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."

the thing is The principle is the same from noah to Jesus to paul to John, to hebrews to peter. They all make the point that our actions tell the truth of our faith and we will be judged according to our actions based on the Word of God. Grace teachers are great when Grace doesnt omit the rest of Scriptures, ive been out of Line alot in arguing with them, But there is a form of grace that is being taught that turns a heart and mind actually against things Like this that Jesus taught clearly, Paul taught clearly, peter, john ect all taught clearly. they all taught " salvation by Grace and through Faith," even Jesus,in fact Because Jesus taught it, is the very reason they all taught it. obeying God, actually commiting our Lives to the One who suffered and died for us, commiting to His ways, the ways of Gods children. that is where salvation is found, if we commit our lives to God BECAUSE Jesus gave His life up for us, when we fail we have understanding of forgiveness, confession, repentance there is no condemnation in the doctrine of Christ for His followers. Like abraham though God said get up and go abraham obeyed God and went....that was His faith also in Hebrews 11.

v8 "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went."

v 17-19 "By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure."

Even adam could have been saved By the hearing of Faith. If He had done what noah did, adam would Have Lived, its the same principle throughout the word, God is right, He is for us, He knows Best Like a Father were supposed to Honor and obey Him. Jesus works made us able to do that is the thing if we Believe the Gospel.

 

[stonesoffire]

and gladly, "the hearing of Faith defined"


Hebrews 11:7 "BY FAITH Noah, being WARNED OF GOD of things not seen as yet, MOVED with fear , PREPARED an ark to the SAVING OF HIS HOUSE; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH."


(Please dont take offense by the capitols i dont really know how to italicize or make bold so i use capitols for emphasis)


Noah Heard God tell Him a flood was coming, and God told Him to build an ark, noah heard God and obeyed did the work of God and then He saved His family and really.....Mankinbd was saved by Noahs obedience upon the provision of God....do you kind of see how " Noahs Hearing of Faith" saved Him and also his family? Yet, though He was saved By His response to what God said, that is His faith....It is of Grace because the scriptures beforehand say " Noah found favor with God, being righteous among the wicked of His time" So then God went by Grace though the world was condemned to be destroyed, God told Noah " the world is condemned and will be destroyed......but you noah you build an ark...He gave him many instructions and noah obeyed Him.


Why did noah obey God?


Because Noah Believed what God was saying. This is How it says Noah is saved by Faith and becomes " the heir to the righteousness that is by Faith. That is my " Hearing of Faith" I think look at the verse and search for " who hindered you from OBEYING THE TRUTH Part of the equation. all of it goes together. sorry im not trying to argue or anything, this is Just my own way of seeing it wich i believe, trying to just discuss, learn share grow ect...God bless its okay to disagree i think it leads to deeper considerations on things we might not think of ....

Thank you for posting this about Noah followJ...

This is symbolically true yet today. Unlike our catholic brethren, I see the ark of God today as Jesus...and there is a great flood coming...heavy rain....we hear the cry of the Spirit and Bride speaking urgently..

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

but the rain is refreshing inside the ark!

Joy!

and those inside safe....saved.