When Did The Church Begin

[BeyondET]

How to maintain the power the Church of England had over people, well easy just don't translate anything that would point to the assembly the people as having a say or point of view,, no wonder in those times people weren't not allowed to personally own a bible back in the day, don't want to many people taking away the churches power over the assembly would they of coarse not...


Instructions were given to the translators of KJV that were intended to limit the Puritan influence on this new translation. The Bishop of London added a qualification that the translators would add no marginal notes (which had been an issue in the Geneva Bible).[7] King James cited two passages in the Geneva translation where he found the marginal notes offensive:[43] Exodus 1:19, where the Geneva Bible had commended the example of civil disobedience showed by the Hebrew midwives, and also II Chronicles 15:16, where the Geneva Bible had criticized King Asa for not having executed his idolatrous grandmother, Queen Maachah.[43] Further, the King gave the translators instructions designed to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology of the Church of England.[7] Certain Greek and Hebrew words were to be translated in a manner that reflected the traditional usage of the church.[7] For example, old ecclesiastical words such as the word "church" were to be retained and not to be translated as "congregation".[7] The new translation would reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and traditional beliefs about ordained clergy.[7]

Awww King James didn't like the criticism the Geneva bible put forth towards the king of Asa.. huh was he concern with people who might read that and do the same to him...lol....

 

[Enow]

There is a new thread in town, claiming that there are two Churches.

This is plain false teaching - "hyperdispensationalism" apparently.

The Church was actually started by God when he sat down to eat with Abraham...we are part of the same Church.

The Church began when Christ became the Head & not before.

After His death, he had descended into the earth to preach unto those in "prison" ( Paradise ) for the O.T. saints had not received the promise yet. After His resurrection, they were seen before His ascension where now Paradise is in Heaven where the O.T. & N.T. saints await their resurrection.

Hebrews 11:[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.[SUP]13 [/SUP]These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.[SUP]14 [/SUP]For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.[SUP]15 [/SUP]And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.[SUP]16 [/SUP]But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

1 Peter 3:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:[SUP]19 [/SUP]By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;20Which sometime were disobedient,...........

So until Christ had done that in 1 Peter 3:18, the O.T. saints were not part of that church till Christ became the Head of. The same goes for new believers or those that had believed in Him when Jesus was on earth before His death & resurrection & ascension. By leading the way into Heaven is how any one can be a citizen of Heaven by the 1st Citizen; the Firstfruits of many.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

If we are talking about the "church" as the body of Christ - then it is true that the church began on the day of Pentecost.

 

[BeyondET]

Y'all have fun with that,, many seek but only a few find it...

 

[pottersclay]

What are we missing, Mr Theophilus,, fill us in,, this should be interesting, I haven't given my thoughts yet though if you want it here it is,

it never did start..

Way to funny beyondet....you owe me a slice of pizza...mine hit the floor thanks to you

 

[fredoheaven]

The Joel prophecy was fulfilled - in part. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit did happen. This is how it was CONFIRMED. The verse says it WAS confirmed.

Heb 2.4
God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

These parts of Joel's prophecy WERE fulfilled. The sun and moon darkening and the wrath to come didn't...let's find out why. And there is precedent for prophecies to be fulfilled partially. Jesus said and did so himself.

Luke 4.20 Compare it with Isaiah 61
And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

I go through that process because you may try to say that prophecies can't be fulfilled partially. According to Jesus they can.

Yes, this might be true that was in part not full fulfillment for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit only during Acts 2 for spiritual awakening and revival but gifts, miracles and wonders were already done by Christ and the Apostles prior to Acts 2 and that is my point which is the confirmation of preaching the gospel which began by the Lord (Mark1:1: Hebrews 2:3-4). I just don’t really understand why say to me that it can’t be fulfilled partially? Let’s prove what the Book of Hebrew says if you really trying to divide it properly.
Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him
Hebrews 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?


Now according to MAD, the Book of Hebrews was not written to us and not Pauline Epistle but it seems MAD takes its foundational background of their dispensational claim in this book. For surely this makes the foundation together with the Gospels Books (Matthew-John). The theme of the passage is the ’great salvation’ and why is is great? because this is the work of God, it is the work of Christ, according to Mark 1:1 and this foundational truths, is about the great salvation which “first began to be spoken by the Lord.” . So it does coincide with (the dividing line) John the Baptist preaching as he prepared the way of the Lord and
Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Going to back to the text, it says and “was confirmed unto us by them that heard him”. The right dividing of the word of truth is not only the ‘ages’, though that’s quite correct but it also applies to the proper dividing of the word in its context. So the question is who are these ‘us’ by them that heard him?
A. Paul and other apostles mention after Acts 9
B. The twelve less Judas + replacement of Judas + Paul and others succeeding as recorded in Acts
Again, in your dispensational approach this Book is not Epistle written by Paul which you may be right for this writer of the Book is unknown thus this should have nothing to do with Paul at all by your own dispensational claim. But the main point in here by the unknown Apostle/ writer of the Book of Hebrews is that this surely confirmed by them that heard him which later includes Paul. Now, if you believe the Bible, then you have to believe this one:
1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1John1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
1 John 1;3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

So the fact is established that those who heard are those from the beginning or during the early publick ministry of Christ. But it is also proper to say that this include Paul since he heard and saw in a vision of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Now in Hebrew 2:4, it says this confirmation is both with signs and wonders, and divers miracles and gifts of the Holy Ghost following the promise of Christ prior to His ascension
.
​

Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

 

[fredoheaven]

So back on topic, the signs and wonders were a sign to the Jewish believer for confirmation. This is why Paul says clearly, the Jew REQUIRE a signs, but we preach Christ crucified 1 Cor 1.22.

This post maybe an off topic but I will try to give a little insight into it. Signs and wonders are sure signs of the Apostles no doubt. Yes, it always been the Jew that requires signs after all Jesus had already says that long before Apostle Paul. Here is the scripture:

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

 

[fredoheaven]

They were part of that Church which started FIRST began by the Lord.

Do I understand it this right? You said: They were part of that Church which started FIRST began by the Lord. Am I getting it clear? Thanks for helping me.

​

 

[fredoheaven]

Heb 6.4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Ananias and Sapphira had that outpouring of the Holy Spirit and that foretaste of the power to come. They then blasphemed the Holy Ghost.

Mark 3.28
Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Is this true for us today? Of course not. Paul says I was a blasphemer 1 Tim 1.13. How did God save him? Two competing truths. Two competing wisdom's here you must grasp. You can't have one verse say those who blaspheme the Spirit have no forgiveness and then have Paul say that he was a blasphemer and God saved him.

This could be another topic about the Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. I think you have put many topics into a single thread. Making it haphazardly, mixing different truths that must be separated, and divided so that truth will be clear and properly absorb. Even Apostle Paul teaches what is proper to avoid confusion.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

 

[fredoheaven]

This cannot be reconciled unless you rightly divide the word of truth and understand that the people in Acts were under a DIFFERENT gospel message. Their's was under works and faith. Ours is NOT of works.

As said, we need to divide the word of truth. Correct! So far you are unable to demonstrate the proper division as to the topic in mind. You mixed different truths.

 

[fredoheaven]

This is why you must understand that in Acts 9, God INTERRUPTS that Earthly kingdom gospel message and brings in a NEW DISPENSATION. And forms a NEW CREATURE. A NEW GOSPEL! What part about NEW CREATURE is hard to understand? If it's a new creature, those people over there in Acts were something else. As it says, they ADDED to them 3000. What can you add to if it's does't exist yet? It did exist, which is how they ADDED to the already present church.

Ho ho my friend, you are just about to help my proposition. Thanks. But let me give some fine demonstration where you erred in this post by comparing what the Bible says to what you said.The Bible says in Acts 2.41

"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."

You said; those people over there in Acts were something else. As it says, they ADDED to them 3000. What can you add to if it's does't exist yet? It did exist, which is how they ADDED to the already present church.

I thought what you are using is KJB. What you trying is to redefine the KJB my friend. There is a big difference for the word “unto” to your “to”. Every word of God is pure. Proverbs 30:5. Every little word is important. What you are trying to emphasize is that something must be added to the already present church (Paul’s Church) that is in Paul’s time to fit MAD. But that is not what the Bible says.

The Bible says the 3000 souls were added unto them. That there was already a Pre Pentecostal church. Notice the words or phrase” were added” expresses past tense so something was put into what is already existed prior to Acts 2.
‘Unto’ can mean, among other things, expressing motion “toward,” “in the direction of,” “upon (in contact with),”and “fastening, securing to something.”

The origin of ‘unto’ is ‘on’ + ‘to.’ This is critical in Biblical usage because we go, not just ‘to’ Jesus, that is, in the direction of Jesus, we go “unto him,” that is, ‘on’ him. Yea rather, we are actually “in him.”

The Bible definition of the word unto is in Genesis 1:7 meaning ‘under’ conveys closeness much beyond ‘to’ or gather together or oneness ie one- two or on + to as in Genesis 1: 22-24 or as in the verse below:

“That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in
Christ” Eph. 1:10.

So in effect, the 3000 was added under the original 12 less Judas, unto 120. All in all is 3, 120. Not that the 120 was being added to…

Oh, I forgot, this is not a KJV thread but I hope I am clear on this topic.

Thanks

 

[fredoheaven]

And you STILL ignore the objective fact in the bible were Paul tells you that there are some mystery truths over here in my epistles, that had they been revealed before him, Christ would NOT have been crucified. And as a hint for you. It's not ONE mystery, its a bunch of mysteries. Everything from Romans-Philemon is a mystery; not just the body of Christ.

It must be you I guessed who ignore objective facts in the Bible. Yes and No to your Romans a to Philemon mystery. The mystery thing is that the thread is still mystery to you

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

The Bible says the 3000 souls were added unto them. That there was already a Pre Pentecostal church. Notice the words or phrase” were added” expresses past tense so something was put into what is already existed prior to Acts 2.
‘Unto’ can mean, among other things, expressing motion “toward,” “in the direction of,” “upon (in contact with),”and “fastening, securing to something.”

The origin of ‘unto’ is ‘on’ + ‘to.’ This is critical in Biblical usage because we go, not just ‘to’ Jesus, that is, in the direction of Jesus, we go “unto him,” that is, ‘on’ him. Yea rather, we are actually “in him.”

The Bible definition of the word unto is in Genesis 1:7 meaning ‘under’ conveys closeness much beyond ‘to’ or gather together or oneness ie one- two or on + to as in Genesis 1: 22-24 or as in the verse below:

“That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in
Christ” Eph. 1:10.

So in effect, the 3000 was added under the original 12 less Judas, unto 120. All in all is 3, 120. Not that the 120 was being added to…

Oh, I forgot, this is not a KJV thread but I hope I am clear on this topic.

Thanks

Yes, this is exactly what I said. They were added to the already present church. NOT the body of Christ. The BoC wasn't even revealed yet. I don't see what you are trying to get at or ask?

As for Eph 1.10. You didn't even quote the whole verse. Why did you do that??? You left out the most important part!

Eph 1.10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Two realms. Two agencies of believers. Two gospels. Two programs. Prophecy and Mystery. Israel and the body of Christ. Rightly divide!

Who's the group of believers looking for a kingdom on Earth??? Those in Acts, those in Matt-John, those in Heb-Rev. Who's looking for Heaven??? Those in Romans-Philemon. Never before until you get to Paul do you ever see believers thinking they are going to go to heaven and be with the Lord. Saints in the OT were always looking for a Kingdom on Earth. In fact, I hear it would be blasphemy to a Jew if you were to think you were going to go live with God in heaven.

Phi 3.20
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Eph 2.6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Col 3.1-3
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

And if you read the verse prior to that, you see Paul talking about believers in Christ (called the enemies of the cross of Christ) who mind Earthly things. Lot's of believers today who think they are going into the Kingdom on Earth. Some sects even think we are in the kingdom. Others think we are building a kingdom right now. But Paul says they are building on another foundation that he didn't lay, another Jesus, and another gospel. Who's works will be burnt up. Because they are not obeying the truth.

(You can also read 1 Cor 15.35-51 for some more insight. I won't list because I've already made this 10x longer than I planned since you said I was jumping all over the place. But I don't like to just state something as a fact and true without proving it. And that takes jumping around the scriptures.)

Rom 15.20
Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man’s foundation:

1 Cor 3.10
According to the grace of God which is given unto me (Paul), as a wise masterbuilder, I (Paul) have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Paul lays the foundation of Christ as the wise masterbuilder. Not Peter. Not John. None of them. Doing so builds on ANOTHER man's foundation as it says above in Rom 15.20

So ask yourself, if Israel's got a kingdom on Earth and you want to put the body of Christ in that kingdom. Who's going to be sitting together in heavenly places????

Also, our salvation comes from God APART from Israel. This was not what Peter preached. He was getting ready to bring salvation to the gentiles through Israel and the kingdom on Earth. Peter and those were going TO the gentiles so that they could be saved. This is contrary to what Paul says. Paul says we are made partakers of the promises of Israel apart from them....Something to think about.

Eph 2.12-15

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

We now have access to the blessing of Israel apart from them. Peter preaches another gospel. A saving gospel, just not OUR gospel. Peter's preaching a kingdom on Earth. Paul's preaching a kingdom IN Heaven. Two realms.
Satan's whole purpose today is to keep people from the mystery. Because it's that same mystery that will bring about his demise. The rapture cannot happen until the body of Christ is formed. And it's my personal belief currently, that the positions in heaven are not being filled because there aren't enough believers who understand the mystery to fill them.

[video=youtube;hP_m1vhTGdY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP_m1vhTGdY[/video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu9zCdF9o8s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyT0Rk8pnm4

 

[John146]

Being IN Christ is not part of the mystery revealed by Paul. There is no issue here for me. I am not sure why that verse is an issue for you? Maybe better explain your concern for me?

People over in the Old Testament were IN Christ. You have to be found IN Christ to be saved. It makes complete sense that Paul says they were in Christ before him. He is just referencing them as believers saved under Peter's gospel. The Little Flock weren't forgotten people; God didn't just cast them aside and say good luck. Paul worked with them in the sense that because they had sold all of their possessions, they were extremely poor. Because remember, the Little Flock, were waiting for a kingdom. Christ said sell all your possessions and follow him for the kingdom is at hand. What a surprise for these believers to now realize that Paul tells them that kingdom has been put on hold and brings in a new dispensation.

The issue with the Little Flock is that they can't cross over into our dispensation (meaning they can't be part of the body of Christ), because they were saved under Peter's gospel message. Maybe this is were you are having an issue. If so, I can expand upon this because I had this question a few years ago about what happened to the believing remnant from Acts 2 church.

Luke 12.32
Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom. Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.


1 Cor 16.1-3
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.

Rom 15.25-27
But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem. It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.


Also, you said that Paul says he is part of the same body as Andronicus and Junia. He never says that. You are reading that into the text.


[video=youtube;zPX7hTGux68]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1265&v=zPX7hTGux68[/video]


Romans 11:3-7 <-- Grace and the Remnant video

Could you provide Scripture where it states that Old Testament saints were "in Christ"?

 

[John146]

Could you provide Scripture where it states that Old Testament saints were "in Christ"?

I believe they were in "Abraham's bosom". If they were "in Christ", they would have been directly in heaven where He is upon death

 

[garee]

Could you provide Scripture where it states that Old Testament saints were "in Christ"?

I would think we would keep in mind that whosoever does not have the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit of God they do not belong to Him. Right from the beginning he removes the flesh barrier indicating they were born again.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The old testament saints walked by the faith of Christ in them just as He does today in us.He puts no difference between them and us purifying their hearts as he does ours, by a work of His faith.

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;And put "no difference" between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.Act 15:7

They looked ahead we look at back at the same demonstration. Receiving the same end goal of our faith the salvation of our soul.

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow1Pe 1:9

 

[John146]

I would think we would keep in mind that whosoever does not have the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit of God they do not belong to Him. Right from the beginning he removes the flesh barrier indicating they were born again.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The old testament saints walked by the faith of Christ in them just as He does today in us.He puts no difference between them and us purifying their hearts as he does ours, by a work of His faith.

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;And put "no difference" between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.Act 15:7

They looked ahead we look at back at the same demonstration. Receiving the same end goal of our faith the salvation of our soul.

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow1Pe 1:9

They did not look forward to the cross. The cross of Christ was hid from everyone since the beginning. It was only after the resurrection did the Lord start to open up people's minds to what had taken place and why.

 

[fredoheaven]

Yes, this is exactly what I said. They were added to the already present church. NOT the body of Christ. The BoC wasn't even revealed yet. I don't see what you are trying to get at or ask?

As for Eph 1.10. You didn't even quote the whole verse. Why did you do that??? You left out the most important part!

Eph 1.10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Two realms. Two agencies of believers. Two gospels. Two programs. Prophecy and Mystery. Israel and the body of Christ. Rightly divide!

Hi Sir!

The title of the OP is about the church when it did began. I just prove my point and you agree. If that's true then that's no problem. However, your problem is that COC is not BOC but the Bible says they are of the SAME body which is the church. What is Acts 9 is added to Acts 2 which my proposition is that the church began earlier than Acts 2. Of course I did not ask you and left some part in Eph. 1:10 since I am trying to to stress my point that word 'unto' and 'to' is different as per the Bible says and the very definition of unto in the New Testament is found in the verse I've cited.

Now, I didn't play or hear any of your link videos or audios and I am sorry to tell you that. Not to mention, that I was once a member of the strict KJVOnliest Bible Forums (way back 2008 though I am not here for any agenda but of course we need to be on guard when the Bible (KJV) is bashed) where dispensationist abounds including MAD. MAD, always means two. The very last things tackled is about wet baptism vs. dry baptism and I believe in the waters of baptism. MAD do not believe it.

Anyway, I have already posted in Page 121 where some doctrines of the Bible has been confused of by MAD.

Thank you

 

[Chester]

I would argue that there are at two main churches. The church in Israel which lead all the way up unto Acts 2. Then God interrupts Israel's prophetic program, and a new body is formed after the Stoning of Steven and the saving of the apostle Paul. Where Christ reveals a hidden, secret, mystery revelation that not even the angels knew about. And God calls this new mystery Church, one new man - a new creature, no more Jew or gentile. Only the body of Christ. Which after formed, will be raptured out of here and take seats in Heaven while God finishes his program with Israel; and then the Church started in Acts chapter 2 will resume. 2 Men will hit the scene. God will call out 144k and start to preach Hebrews-Revelation. And fulfill all the end time prophecies. The anti-Christ will be made known and that good stuff will go on.

Pentecost Not the Beginning of the Mystery Church

Two churches!?? LOL! Do you have any Scripture that says there are two churches?

Not videos!! Not parts of verses pieced together from different contexts!

A Scripture that says there are two churches?

 

[Enow]

Two churches!?? LOL! Do you have any Scripture that says there are two churches?

Not videos!! Not parts of verses pieced together from different contexts!

A Scripture that says there are two churches?

Here is a scripture that disproves the notion that Israel was a church to be added to the church where Christ is the Head.

John 1:[SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Israel was born of blood, by the will of the flesh, and by the will of man as descendents of Abraham and converts to Judaism will attest to; and so hardly of the church that we have been born into as we born of God.

As for how many churches are out there of that one body in Christ? Seven as testified in the Book of Revelation as for how they were walking in the Lord.. with also how they were not walking in the Lord too.