Helmet of "Hope of Salvation"

PeterJens · Jan 23, 2017

For me the irony of ex-legalists telling me I am just religious, is just laughable.
A legalist is someone who pushes themselves to become something they are not.
They close their heart off and try and fail.

Now the only way you walk with Christ is with an open heart, with love and the
Holy Spirit.

If I use these words yet I am called religious, I know I am not dealing with healed
legalists, but just hypocracy is the new christianity. So no spiritual change, just
a new version of the same act.

Grandpa · Jan 23, 2017

PeterJens said:

No.

I understand condemnation perfectly well.

How about you tell about Christ and the work He does in the Christian Life instead?

Grace777x70 · Jan 23, 2017

Grandpa said:

Amen...condemnation guilt and shame are not tools of the kingdom of God and the Lord does not sub-contract them out to the devil to use on us. They are the tools of the religious spirit that uses them to try to force others to conform and try to mimic the life of Christ.

Condemnation is the sub-conscious confession that your life is worthy of judgment.

Guilt is the sub-conscious confession that you are not forgiven.

Shame is the sub-conscious confession that the thing you are condemned over is still who you are.

All 3 of these are anti-Christ and anti- the finished work of Christ beliefs.

They are not tools of heaven. The Holy Spirit is NOT called the Spirit of guilt - but He the Comforter is called the Spirit of grace.

PeterJens · Jan 23, 2017

Grandpa said:

I think I did not make it clear. The 3 things I meant were an open heart, Christs love and walking
in victory.

An Open heart - letting our deepest wounds and feelings out to be changed, looked at,
affected. Walking without defence or protection, just speaking who you are.

Christs love - Christ loves us from eternity to eternity. Nobody can take this love away
it is always there, always understanding and always ready to act. He would do anything
that is required within God will to sort out a situation. I trust, know and love Him.
His sacrifice and dedication overwhelm me and my heart. He refeshes me daily, hourly,
in all I do and say.

Walking in victory - Each situation I approach in prayer, in praise, looking to see how I
can be of service. If I get something wrong, I walk it through until my heart is at peace.
I learn how to see people as they are, and how I can be hurt by there actions and words,
and then put it in context of Jesus and His love.

Now I see no wrong here, or condemnation or failure.
The law of Christ still stands, and is a good reference point for focus.

PeterJens · Jan 23, 2017

Understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine
1 Tim 1:9-10

PeterJens · Jan 23, 2017

Condemnation, guilt and shame

For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:4

He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1 Tim 3:6

Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.
1 John 3:18-22

Guilt is an emotion when we feel bad about something. It can be anything,
and just communicates regret.

If we do not feel guilty about sin there is something wrong with us.
Psychopaths feel no guilt but normal people with a functioning conscience
feel guilt if they let someone down.

Shame. Shame is about letting someone or a group down and it gets known
about. It can be having an untidy house when guests arrive, not doing something
that causes failure for someone else. It usually is something social, and once set
is hard to reverse.

Condemnation is about judgement before the throne.
If we walk in the Spirit and have faith in Christ, we have no condemnation.

But if we walk in sin, then condemnation is just.

DiscipleDave · Jan 28, 2017

dcontroversal said:

i know many things that are not written in Scriptures, hence the reason God converses with people, gives them dreams, gives them visions. When you shall one day see the antichrist saying on TV "Where is your God now?" and it causes a great falling away from not only the Christian Faith but all faiths of the entire World, then you will remember that what i had said unto you is True.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Jan 29, 2017

Grandpa said:

Those who think they are under the law, preach the 10 commandments and the observance of them.

Grandpa said:

He Has The Law Itself to condemn with, if He so chooses.[/quoted]

Jesus condemns all those who do not LOVE ONE ANOTHER, as He commanded all Christians to do. Are you Loving Others?

Grandpa said:

absolutely True, the problem though is this generation thinks they are in Christ Jesus, not even knowing what the Scriptures teach concerning what it means to be in Christ Jesus. You see this generation goes about thinking they are covered by the Blood of Jesus Christ because they are in Christ Jesus, altogether ignoring all the Scriptures which teach what it means to be under the Blood of Jesus.

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

If we say we are in Christ Jesus and walk in darkness (willingly commit sins) we lie, and the do not the TRUTH.

The next verse says this:

1Jn 1:7 But if (conditional) we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Who are they that are cleansed by His Blood according to the Holy Inpired Scriptures? those who walk in the light, NOT those who walk in darkness. Tell me, how can you knowingly and willingly obey the Lords enemy satan and choose to commit sin, which you KNOW is sinful but choose to do it anyways, and still think you are walking in the LIGHT like He did, you are decieved and THINK you are in Christ Jesus but Scriptures Plainly teach who is and who is NOT in Christ Jesus. But you see you pick and choose which verses to believe and which ones not to believe. The above verses 6 and 7 are made void, because this generation chooses to believe verse 8, and even that they misinterpret to mean something other than what it actually says, which effectively negates verses 6 and 7 so they don't have to believe what they teach. And then they go on to read verse 9 as to excuse the sins that we do commit. Commit a sin, ask forgiveness , commit the same sin every single night, but you are good to go if you do what verse 9 says, all the while ignoring, making void, or interpreting away all other verses which teach that is a wrong belief. but who wants to walk the narrow and difficult path that i teach? Those who are willing to give up their life for Jesus Christ as He gave His for YOU. Your master is to whom you obey, this generation has to ignore that verse as well, and many and i say MANY verses they have to ignore, make void, or interpret away so that they feel good about the path that they think they are on.
Who according to Scriptures does His Blood cleanseth from all sin? Those who walk in the light, That is the TRUTH, and is Scriptural. But will this generation eat that meat? No, not this generation, they prefer milk, easy christianity, the broad and wide path that leads to destruction, all the while singing on their lips, they are in Christ Jesus.

Grandpa said:

And what Scripture are you ignoring when it refers to not under the law, but under Grace?

Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Even this verse plainly teaches, no interpretation needed that those who are under Grace ARE NOT TO CONTINUE TO SIN. But will this generation that is on milk eat that meat? Scriptures plainly teach that just because you are no longer under the law, but under Grace, you are still NOT TO SIN, yet another of hundreds of verses in the Word of God that teach to stop sinning. But this generation loves to sin, and cannot cease from it, Scriptures calls those who can't cease from sin, cursed children. and Woe to the generation that thinks they can't cease from sin.

Grandpa said:

This is True, the Law (600+ commandments) was to death. But what this generation fails to see or to understand is that Jesus is LIFE, and what does He COMMAND? Love One Another. Those who do not Love Others, do not have LIFE in them. No matter how much they claim they know Jesus or Love Jesus, or are in Jesus, or under His Blood, or Once Saved Always Saved, or whatever else this generation says with their mouths, but their fruits PROVES WHO is in them, if they are Loving One Another, Jesus is in them, if they are NOT Loving One Another, Jesus in NOT in them.

Grandpa said:

This is true, for a person GETTING SAVED, not for a person who IS SAVED. Tell me. Does Jesus offer the free Gift of Salvation to a person every single day? Or is it given at the moment they accept Jesus into their lives and all their sins are forgiven them? Does that gift happen every day or just ONCE when that person GETS SAVED? What? Do you think Jesus goes to the cross for you every Day? Do you think Jesus takes stripes for you every single time you commit a sin against Him? Jesus goes to the cross and pays the price ONCE. He does not do it over and over and over again. YOU GET SAVED ONCE, You receive the free gift ONCE, You get SAVED Once, it does not happen every time you repent. If that were true, and you sin daily, you put Christ on the cross every day, seriously? Do you make Him pay for your sins on a daily basis? Nay, Christ offers the free gift ONCE to a person, and it is at that time all their past sins are forgiven them, Jesus paid the penalty for all those past sins when you accept Him as your Savior and Lord. But know you not that after that moment, when you commit a sin, YOU pay the consequences for that sin? Why do you think i wrote what i did below in signature, Tribulation and anguish upon every soul that doeth evil. if you commit sin, you pay for it, you do not put stripes on His back again for every time you commit sin. It is written you reap what you sow, why is that written if Jesus pays the penalty every time you commit sin? This generation better wake up and start eating meat, because if you are still being weened and on milk and do not know or understand that TRUTH, then you will most likely be one that is left behind, because you failed to understand the TRUTH when it was presented to you by a person who claims what he teaches comes from God, which it does. Have i told you any evil at all? Do the words that are being typed sound like words of a demon. Can satan be divided against himself? satan would not teach you to tell the TRUTH, satan would not teach you to Love One Another as Jesus Christ Commanded you to do. And satan would most certainly not be teaching to stop sinning. So then whose words are these? mine, you say? Nay, but i do not take credit for something that i did not come up with, what i teach is what He has told me, you do not believe me, because you do not believe Him who told me these things, and these things are NOT evil nor wicked, but come from God, but because what i teach, which He told me, does not line up the the Truths that you hold on to, i must be wicked, i must be false, i must not know what i am talking about. But one day, NOT the RETURN of Jesus, not that Judgement Day, but the other Judgment Day, the Great White Throne Judgement Day, you will hear, not only my name, but all the people who have tried to tell you the TRUTH, and you rejected it, straight, out. NOT because it is contrary to Scriptures, but contrary to what you THINK is the TRUTH.
The narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting is to be found, to be searched for, it is not easy, it is very difficult, and tell you how to be on that path, but you do not want to hear it, and why? because this generation loves to sin, and they will not cease from it, nor do they think they have to, even though MOST of Scriptures teaches how to overcome it. But does this generation believe Scriptures? OH they say they do, but do they? NO, they only pick and choose the verses which line up with what they THINK is the TRUTH, then ignore, make void, or interpret away any verse that seems to be contrary to what they believe is the TRUTH. For example this generation refuses to believe or understand there is a difference from Getting SAVED and Being Saved. The difference between what a person MUST do to GET SAVED (Nothing but believe) and what a person MUST do once they ARE SAVED (Love One Another) They are drinking milk and not eating meat.

Grandpa said:

And yet Christ Jesus, whom you say is your LORD, Commands YOU to "Love One Another" Please tell me how that is NOT WORKS, please try? Or are you holding on to the few verses which teach what a person must do to GET SAVED?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

mailmandan · Feb 3, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 10 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that walks in darkness, hates his brother is connected to children of the devil.

DiscipleDave · Feb 14, 2017

mailmandan said:

Is that what your reasoning as to not believe what it says? Those who walk in darkness are they that do that which is considered darkness. Those who walk in the light are they that do that which is considered light. A good tree produces ONLY good fruit. a bad tree produces both good and bad fruit. Do a study on the Word of God what the Word teaches concerning what walking in darkness means, and then maybe you will see the light.

Scriptures are clear who the children of the devil are, the Word of God says they are these:

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

According to this inspired by God verse, ANYONE who does not do that which is Righteous, is in fact a child of the devil. Unrighteousness is DARKNESS. Those who walk in darkness, live in sin. These are they that repeatedly commits the same sin over and over and over again, without ever ceasing from them, they are in darkness and walking in darkness even now, no matter how much they proclaim with their mouths they are walking in the light.

So tell yourself whatever you want to, but just because you believe what you believe, is not going to change the TRUTH of what Scriptures teach. And it plainly teaches. If you walk in darkness, you do NOT have fellowship with Him. This is taught throughout all of the Scriptures.

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Other verses also teach the same thing, Why do you call Him LORD, and not do what He tells you to do? This generation falsely believes they can walk in darkness, which is sin, and still think they are walking in the light, even though they continually obey satan and commit sins, which they know full well are sinful, yet commit them anyways, all the while thinking they are walking in the light. There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth. Why? Because they did not believe the Word of God and what it plainly taught. What i have said above in the quote you replied to, is the TRUTH, but you change the TRUTH, to mean something other than what it actually says.

This statement is to CHRISTIANS who SAY the are SAVED, they say they have fellowship with Jesus Christ, they say they are covered by His Blood, they say they are sealed, they say they are SAVED by Faith through Grace, they say they have fellowship with Jesus Christ, But if they walk in darkness, that is not a description of the children of the devil at all, it is specifically talking about Christian who choose to walk in darkness, that is to knowingly and willingly do something that you know full well is wicked and sinful, but you choose to do it anyways = DARKNESS. So tell yourself whatever you will, so long as you don't have to change the doctrine that you hold on to, right? Believe Scriptures, NOT what men teach you.

mailmandan said:

Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness (sinning) to light (Living in Holiness, Righteousness, without fault, blameless, harmless, LOVING), and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

mailmandan said:

NONE!!! Those who proclaim they are walking in the light, yet do that which is considered darkness, are NOT in the light at all, but walking in darkness even to this very day. This is what Scriptures teach also. A Good tree (LIGHT) does not produce bad fruits (DARKNESS). Yes, the children of the devil are walking in darkness, because there is no light in them. Those who claim to have the light in them, yet choose to live in sin as do the heathens, are no different then the heathens. Is it not written since you are NEW MAN in Christ to put off the deeds of the old man. How then do you claim to be a NEW MAN in Christ, yet you still continue to do the deeds of the old man. i will tell you the Truth, it does not matter what you claim with your mouth, if you are doing the deeds of the old man, you are still the old man. Those who have put on Jesus Christ, DO NOT do the deeds of the old man.

mailmandan said:

The problem is you do not understand, that anyone who chooses to walk in darkness, that is to say, they choose to obey satan and commit sin, are indeed walking in darkness. For some reason you have this false teaching that if you claim to be in the light, walking in the light, that if you choose to knowingly and willingly commit sin, that is to say, you choose to knowingly and willingly obey the Lords enemy and choose to sin against Christ, that you are still in the light, and walking in the light. This is a false teaching given to this generation from satan, to KEEP the populace living in sin.
Scriptures teach to get rid of the sin that so easily besets you. What does this generation say instead "NOPE, don't have to do that, because i am walking in the light, and Jesus is my Righteousness, and whatever else they can come up with, As LONG AS THEY DON"T HAVE TO GIVE UP THAT SIN THAT SO EASILY BESETS THEM.
i warn all of you that read this. If you choose to obey the Lord's enemy the devil, and choose to do that which you KNOW is sinful, but you choose to do it anyways, you are NOT Walking in the LIGHT, no matter if you think you are. There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth, when billions are left behind, and it won't be because you were not warned by a person who has told you the TRUTH, which SCRIPTURES plainly teach as well.

mailmandan said:

He who says he/she is in the light (SAVED, Christian, under the Blood, etc...) and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. This is why i always ask those who claim OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) to answer these questions. 1) Are you SAVED? and 2) Are you saying it is now IMPOSSIBLE for you to HATE someone in the future, IMPOSSIBLE?
You may claim to be Saved NOW, and believe you are TRULY SAVED, under the Blood of Jesus Christ, Sealed, but if tomorrow, you end up HATING someone (because they raped YOU, or someone you love, kidnapping your child, Molesting your child, firing you without a cause, You go to prison because of a lie, and your innocent, drunk driver kills your family, or maims you in an accident, the list is endless and can go on and on) According to Scriptures, you will NOT enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, and it does not matter what you claim with your mouth. Scriptures are TRUE, and what people teach is false, if what they teach contradicts even one verse in Scriptures. Can a Saved person, HATE someone tomorrow?

1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

He that saith he/she is SAVED, and hateth his/her brother, is in darkness even until now. Woe to this generation indeed. For many think they are in the light, but because they do not have LOVE in them, they are walking in darkness even now, although they yell on their housetops "I am in the Light of Jesus" only to come down from the roof, go into their private room and view porn. Wicked they are, thinking they are in the light, but live in darkness. Whited walls they are, on the outside they appear to be Christians, but on the inside, they are full of LUST, Greed, and sin on a daily basis, believing all the false doctrines, that teach them, they can continue to live in sin and still go to Heaven. Blind they are.

mailmandan said:

Oh if this generation would only believe this verse, and change their life forever. The children of God and the children of the devil are made known to us by if they are practicing righteousness or NOT. Tell me, What sin do you choose to commit that you think is RIGHTEOUS? NONE, you say, really? So then every time you CHOOSE to commit a sin, which you know is sinful and do it anyways, How is that NOT practicing UNrighteousness.

A person is tempted to view porn and gratify him/herself. This person immediately goes into prayer, or calls another Christian for help, or gets the Bible out and starts reading it, or out loud cast satan out, or immediately gets on Christianchat.com to get mind off of that temptation. This person Does that which is Righteous, Good, Just, and pleases God.

A person is tempted to view porn and gratify him/herself. This person DOESN'T immediately go into prayer, or DOESN'T call another Christian for help, or DOESN'T get the Bible out and start reading it, or DOESN'T out loud cast satan out, or DOESN'T immediately get on Christianchat.com to get mind off of that temptation. This person Does NOT practice Righteousness and is NOT of God. If that person were of God, that person would have seeked God and His Power and Strength to overcome that temptation, But they DENY the power of Jesus Christ, and why? because they WANTED to commit that sin, these are in darkness even unto this day. Unless they repent of this practice, and seek God when they are tempted by satan. Those who knowingly and willingly commit sin Does NOT practice Righteousness. If they did, they would not have committed the sin that so easily besets them.

1Co_15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

You have the knowledge of God, i have told you, what He has told me, this generation would rather believe false doctrines that excuse sinning, than to believe the TRUTH which condemns it. All of Scriptures teaches against sinning.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

mailmandan · Feb 14, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

I summed it up for you in post #149 and John is not teaching sinless perfection. Do you believe that you are sinless, without fault of defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time, exactly as Jesus is? God has something to say about such people (1 John 1:8-10).

DiscipleDave said:

I believe what the Bible says and this is a straw man argument. You seem to enjoy pointing the finger at everyone else and accusing them of teaching false doctrine, promoting sin and living like the devil continuously (while making excuses for their lifestyle of sin) and believing they are saved anyway, then exalting yourself as being "holier than thou." Red flag.

Both Paul and John have dealt with the issue of sin and deception in (1 Corinthians 6:9-11; Galatians 5:19-21; 1 John 1:6-10; 1 John 2:9,10; 1 John 3:7-10).

Grandpa · Feb 14, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

Good question. How is it not works? How are we not condemned for not being perfect at it like Jesus is?

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Are you made perfect by trying really hard to obey commands? Are you made perfect by good intentions?

(no)

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Do you see that? Everything required for obedience is supplied by Christ.
Everything required for salvation is supplied by Christ.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

In this way, my own works of my will and flesh are dirty rags, no matter how good intentioned or how wise I think I am.

It is the work of Christ that is the Good Work in me and results in any good work that comes out of me.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Romans 8:31-37

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

Hizikyah · Feb 14, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

"then will be brought to pass"

We hope for future things, thus the "helmet of the hope of Salvation"

1 Corinthians 15:50-54, "Now I say this brothers: that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of YHWH; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory."

royalscot · Feb 14, 2017

i do not know ware you got the wording to a hope of salvation.

the Spirit is the one who testifies, (john 3) when john 3 is believed.

Romans 4
16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring---not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.1 Corinthians 13:

Testimony Concerning the Son of God
6 This is he who came by water and blood---Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.7 For there are three that testify:8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.1 John 5:

John 3: You Must Be Born Again
For God So Loved the World
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

if you have the spirit, there is no hope required, if you already believe in salvation or saviour (that whoever believes in him should not perish john 3)and is guaranteed. (Romans 4)

the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.1 John 5:

the question is are testifying to the three and in agreement to them. if not then the hope of salvation might fit the topic well.

DiscipleDave · Feb 27, 2017

mailmandan said:

And if i answer you Honestly, how will you not say that i am Self Righteous, Arrogant, and the such. But i will answer your question that you have asked me. Yes, i do all things to please Jesus Christ.

Scriptures teach :

Mat_5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (With Jesus, i am able to do this, its all Him)

Eph_1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:(With Jesus, i am able to do this, its all Him)

1Co_15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.(With Jesus, i am able to do this, its all Him)

Joh_5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. (With Jesus, i am able to do this, its all Him)

Joh_8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. (With Jesus, i am able to do this, its all Him)

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. (That answer is NO. i am able to comply, because of Jesus helping me to comply)

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. (i no longer obey sin or serve sin, because Jesus is my Strength and Power against ever temptation that satan throws at me)

1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. (i am able to DO this, to be Holy, because Jesus gives me the Strength and Power to overcome all temptations that come upon me, if i can do it through Jesus Christ, why don't you?)

1Pe 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. (the Lord answers all my prayers, because i do not do that which is evil, i do all things to please Jesus Christ. if i did evil (commit sin) then this verse teaches His Face is against me, and i won't have that. With Jesus Christ in my sights, i can do all things. So could you, if He was in your sights instead of looking at whatever sin that you are looking at)

1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. (how did Jesus walk? i walk the same. How? Only through Him can i do it. If i can walk like Him. then you can to)

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. (Do you willingly commit sin, i assure you, that wicked one has touched you. The wicked one tempts me all the time, but he will never touch me and cause me to commit sin against Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior, How am i able to fight off satan every single time he tempts me? Through the Power and Strength of Jesus Christ. If then He gives me the power and Strength, he would give it to you as well. But how many search out Jesus when they are tempted to commit a sin that the WANT to do? i would guess maybe one out of a hundred thousand will actually seek for the path out that Jesus gives them. Most would rather just commit the sin, and repent, and think all is well with their soul.)

2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: (Doesn't this generation teach it is impossible to cease from sinning?)

Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil. (If you knowingly and willingly commit sin, How have you not given place to the devil?)

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. ( i do not knowingly and or willingly obey satan and commit sin. i am able to do this, not through my own power and strength, which is pathetic by the way, but i am able to do this, through the Power and Strength of Jesus Christ.)

He helps me to walk as He did. i love Jesus so much, why on earth would give place to His enemy, for one second? Why would i do that to Him? How would you feel if your spouse obeyed your enemy and not you? i do not wish to disappoint Jesus Christ and obey His enemy. i love to please my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ by obeying Him, and hating sin, hating what it stands for, hating what it is. i do all things to please my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Yes, i am a Jesus Freak, called this many times in my life, Love it.

mailmandan said:

Let us quote the Scriptures that you say, say something about those who NO LONGER continue to live in sin.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

These verses are clearly concerning those who think they have NEVER SINNED.
Have i ever said "i Have no sin"? i have made it clear that i have probably sinned more than everyone one reading this post combined. So i have never said, nor have i ever thought, that i HAVE no sin. i HAVE SINNED much. i no longer continue to live in sin, but i have sinned much. So please don't lump me in with these verses which is clearly talking about those people who think they have never sinned, ever.

mailmandan said:

And please tell, how you think i enjoy that? You accuse me of enjoying pointing my finger at everyone, tell me what i have said that makes you think that i enjoy that? Or is that something that is just in your head?

mailmandan said:

If you accuse a brother in the Lord, of doing this wicked, evil thing, then surely you can show where i have done that? Or are you in the habit of accusing people of things without giving supporting evidence to back it up, nor quoting anything that i have said, that would justify you saying that i exalt myself as being Holier than thou. Isn't the Truth of the matter, is you THINK that is what i do, because then it would justify you not listening to such a person, right? i mean if i actually did exalt myself and think that i am holier than thou, then why listen to me at all? But the Truth is, and God is my witness, i have not done that thing which you falsely accuse me of, you really should repent to God for doing such a thing, and cease to ever do it again. If any of you are going to accuse someone of this or that, then do the Godly thing and quote what they said, to back up your accusation against another. Here are some examples:

i believe you think you are holier than thou because you said "_____________"
or
i think you are self righteous because you said "____________________"
or
You must be self righteous because you said "_________________"
or
By your statement "__________________" makes me think you like to exalt yourself.
or
Your statement "__________________" makes me think you enjoy pointing your finger at people.

Simple, and is the Godly thing to do.

Jesus, your Savior and Lord, said "Don't accuse any falsely"

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Feb 27, 2017

Grandpa said:

We are instructed to be perfect, therefore it must be attainable and possible.

Mat_5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

We would not be instructed to do this, if it were impossible to do.

Grandpa said:

Galatians 3:3

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Grandpa said:

True, we are made perfect by looking to Jesus Christ for His Strength and Power against temptations that come upon us. All seven messages to the 7 Churches were to Christians who had OVERCAME.

Grandpa said:

Galatians 5:22-23

Click to expand...

Grandpa said:

Those are fruits of the Spirit. Tell me, if a Christian, fails to help someone in need, where is the Spirit then? If Christ supplies the obedience, then when on disobeys, why did Christ FAIL to supply the obedience then? Don't you see your logic is flawed? Obedience is NOT supplied by Christ. Obedience is something that we should DO, with the help of Christ.
Someone who has the Spirit in them, WILL have all those things mentioned,
love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance:

Those who do NOT have those things, the Spirit is NOT supplying to them then, right? Those who Truly have the Spirit in them, WILL HAVE all those things, not might have them, not might have some of them, WILL have all of them. Because the Spirit inside of them presses them to Love One Another. But the person still chooses to DO it or not. The Spirit does not MAKE a person Love, does not MAKE a person have joy. The Spirit prompts us to be content, to Love One Another, to help people, to give to charities, to love those who can't be loved. We still choose whether to do them or not do them. Why do you think it is written that the Holy Spirit can be Grieved?

Grandpa said:

Everything that is Required for one to GET SAVED is supplied by Christ, this is TRUE. But once you are SAVED, then there are many things that are REQUIRED. Namely to LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

Grandpa said:

Ephesians 2:10

Click to expand...

Grandpa said:

sigh.... Any work done based on our own will and flesh is filthy, dirty, and dung. But this generation teaches against any kind of works at all. Even the above verse plainly teaches we are created in Jesus Christ unto good works. SO WE ARE TO HAVE THEM!!! How many claim to be in Christ, and have no works at all? This is, and has been my point from the start. Fruits of the Spirit are those things mentioned above. How many Christian today show all those things from the Spirit? Why, because they Spirit is not in them, even though they claim to be Christians. If the Spirit is in you, than i assure you, you WILL HAVE all those things mentioned concerning the fruits. But how many grieve the Spirit and do not do those things, because they are works? and Works are evil according to this generation. if a person is full of good works, Do they not say of that person, that person is just working to get to Heaven? A person who has Jesus in them, Truly in them, will be full of good works, their fruits will be abundant, they will LOVE EVERYONE, they will hate no one, they will have peace that surpasses understanding, they will NOT obey His enemy the devil. How many Christians today exhibit the fruits of the Spirit? Now ask yourself, Why don't they?

Grandpa said:

Agreed, and that is my point as well. Where, in this generation, is the Good Works at? You say Good Works comes from Christ. So then all those who claim to have Christ in them, should have an abundant amount of Good Works because of Christ in them, RIGHT? Yet what do we see? We see billions of people claiming to be Christians, yet NO Good Works, Why is that? If Jesus was in them, they would have Good Works, right? that is what you are saying right? The Good Work that you do is because of Jesus in you, right. So if billions of people claim Jesus lives in them, Where is all the Good Works? which is evident by Jesus living in them? Many are Called (Get Saved) but only a few are chosen (Live SAVED)

Grandpa said:

John 15:5

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Grandpa said:

This is what i was saying above. How many people claim to have Jesus in them? Shouldn't they, if they actually did, be bringing forth MUCH FRUIT? This verse teaches those who have Jesus, WILL be bringing forth MUCH FRUIT. But how many people do we see in these last days who claim with their mouths they have Jesus in them, yet their are no fruits at all?

Grandpa said:

And yet this generation can't get rid of the sin that so easily besets them. Through Jesus we can conquer every temptation that comes upon us, but how many look to Jesus for help, when they are tempted to commit sin? Why, because they have this false ideal, that they can continue to live in sin, and still go to Heaven. it is false, it is NOT Scriptural. We are Christians are instructed NOT TO SIN, and if anyone does sin, they can Get SAVED and be forgiven too.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

mailmandan · Feb 27, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

Those who teach sinless perfection cite the same passages of Scripture that you did in order to try and prove their point, so it appears that you are guilty as charged. Just to go over some of the verses with you from above that you have misinterpreted to teach sinless perfection:

Matthew 5:48 - Be Perfect - Perfect (teleioi). The word comes from telo, end, goal, limit. Here it is the goal set before us, the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father. The word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children.

So absolute perfection, sinless, without fault or defect for us will not become a reality until we are present with the Lord, but that is the goal to strive for. Yet teleioi is also used to refer to the maturity of an adult, which is the end or aim to which the child points. Thus it denotes those who have attained the full development of innate powers, in contrast to those who are still in the undeveloped state (children).

In regards to John 8:11, Jesus was telling her to go and leave her life of sin. She had been practicing adultery. I don't believe that sinless perfection is being taught here. Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him (demonstrative evidence), if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. BTY the Greek word for "know" is "tereo" which means to guard, observe, watch over, properly maintain, keep intact. It does not mean sinless, perfect obedience to all of Christ's commandments 100% of the time.

As Greek scholar AT Robertson explains in 1 John 3:6 - Sinneth not (ouc amartanei). Linear present (linear menwn, keeps on abiding) active indicative of amartanw, "does not keep on sinning." For menw (abide) see Hebrews 2:6 ; John 15:4-10. Whosoever sinneth (o amartanwn). Present (linear) active articular participle like menwn above, "the one who keeps on sinning" (lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin as amarthsa, aorist active participle, would mean). Hath not seen him (ouc ewraken auton). Perfect active indicative of oraw. The habit of sin is proof that one has not the vision or the knowledge (egnwken, perfect active also) of Christ.

1 John 3:9 says - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin (KJV); No one who is born of God practices sin.. (NASB).

Greek scholar AT Robertson points out - The child of God does not have the habit of sin. His seed (sperma autou). God's seed, "the divine principle of life" (Vincent). Cf. John 1. And he cannot sin (kai ou dunatai amartanein). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means "and he cannot commit sin" as if it were kai ou dunatai amartein or amarthsai (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive amartanein can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning," as is true of amartanei in verse John 8 and amartanwn in verse John 6. For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see amarthte and amarth in John 2:1. A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of amartanein here. Paul has precisely John's idea in Romans 6:1 epimenwmen th amartiai (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with amarthswmen in Romans 6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive). By now you should get the picture.

All believers should love to please their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ by obeying Him and hating sin.

Believers no longer continue to "practice" sin (1 Corinthians 6:11; Galatians 5:21; 1 John 3:9) yet that does not mean that we are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect (just as Jesus is) 100% of the time.

1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Verse 10 is in regards to have never sinned.

I'm yet to meet someone who teaches sinless perfection that does not admit they have sinned in the past (pre-conversion), yet they cling to the notion that they are now presently living a sinless life 100% of the time (after-confersion). You agree with 1 John 1:10, but don't seem to agree with 1 John 1:8.

When you are continuously pointing the finger at others as falling short of sinless perfection, yet claiming this for yourself. How could you not enjoy that? This feeds the pride of the self righteous.

Plenty of your posts back up my claim and here are just a few:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146296-not-works-82.html#post2996622

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-christ-do-enough-save-us-21.html#post2972500

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146196-helmet-hope-salvation-4.html#post2924484

You talk as if you are God's special messenger who is living a sinless, perfect, life 100% of the time, yet the rest of us fall way short and are doomed and I'm sure it's not just me on CC who see's it that way.

I have not falsely accused you of anything. I was being completely honest with you about how you come across to me in your posts. Claiming to be sinless, absolutely perfect, 100% of the time seems to be the root cause of your problem which stems from pride and self righteousness.

PeterJens · Feb 27, 2017

Is it a bad thing for people to walk righteously?

If it is true, amen. If not, I pray conviction of sin will fall
and resolution created.

To walk righteously primarily is about loving and serving others.

One problem that possibly indicates failure is believing you have
arrived. Part of walking in love is not being proud, arrogant, boastfull,
full of self.

After doing all where are we? Children of the living God.
We are not earning something we are living it in Christ.

For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Heb 12:2

I hold that we need to know victory and walk closely with
the Lord, and know His blessing.

There is nothing that can separate us from the love of God
working within us.

Hizikyah · Feb 27, 2017

1 Corinthians 4:4-5, "For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is יהוה! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from יהוה."

Grandpa · Feb 27, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

You are very wrong about that.

Galatians 3:24 [FONT=&quot]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

[/FONT]For some really strange reason the law itself was not enough to cause people to realize they are not perfect before God. The Lord Jesus had to explain it in Matthew 5, to magnify it, so people would start to understand.

Your first sentence is correct and could have the end of your error. But then you typed the 2nd sentence.

Think about the biggest event in your life. The biggest event ever. Good or bad. Could you ever forget it? That is what you are suggesting when you say a Christian who has overcome has then forgotten how and stopped overcoming.

You are either the workmanship of God or you are not. If you think it is your works that are required to be saved and stay saved I cannot convince you otherwise.

This is a pretty common thought. I see it alot. People down play Salvation. They say, in effect, ok, big deal, you've been saved, now you have to get back to work. People who think this way and express what you just have don't understand what Salvation is. Salvation is being saved from ALL of our ways. Its not just bailing wire and a bar of soap.

Romans 14:4 [FONT=&quot]Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

From what I have seen when people are saved they aren't made 100% perfect at that time. They are a work in progress. I really don't see what the point is of continuing to condemn people who are a work in progress. The Lord Jesus has given them the ultimate encouragement in Salvation. Shouldn't we, in the Spirit of Christ, continue with that same encouragement?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Helmet of "Hope of Salvation"

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