Women Pastors? Help me.

[samuel23]

One can play games with the word of God in this life...but one day the last game will have been played. The bible is abundantly clear that God does not want women in authority over men in the church...the Spirit of God would never led a person to claim that women can be in authority over men in the church. Those who take a position that the word of God says that women can not be in authority over men in the church, obviously have no fear of God...and that is very scary!

 

[StanJ]

One can play games with the word of God in this life...but one day the last game will have been played. The bible is abundantly clear that God does not want women in authority over men in the church...the Spirit of God would never led a person to claim that women can be in authority over men in the church. Those who take a position that the word of God says that women can not be in authority over men in the church, obviously have no fear of God...and that is very scary!

Like I said before, continually stating something that's not a fact just diminishes your credibility about understanding God's word.
The Bible is in fact not abundantly clear about this issue and needs to be read in proper context in order to be understood, which you seem not to be able to do.
The following is excerpted from; Women in the Scriptures: Phebe
Even though Paul never personally ministered to the saints in Rome he sent them instruction and encouragement in the form of a letter, which is now the book of Romans in the New Testament. His letter to them was written towards the end of his time in Corinth ( Acts 20:3), Paul hoped that after his visit to Jerusalem he would then be able to visit Rome. At the conclusion of his letter (Romans 16) he gave a long list of greetings to friends and fellow saints who were then living or ministering in Rome. Romans 16 is unique because it gives us an intimate glimpse into the members of the early Christian church, it is also unique because 10 of the 29 people mentioned by Paul in his letter are women-- including his letter carrier Phebe.

If it wasn't for all these women co-workers in the New Testament the gospel would not have spread as quickly as it did and despite your apparent disdain for women being able to be pastors, it doesn't stop them today nor did it then. The fact that you and people of your ilk on this thread continue to condemn and even state that people with my opinion are not Christian the fact is that there is no difference in the New Testament between men and women in God's eyes. If you knew God you would know that.

 

[wolfwint]

Like I said before, continually stating something that's not a fact just diminishes your credibility about understanding God's word.
The Bible is in fact not abundantly clear about this issue and needs to be read in proper context in order to be understood, which you seem not to be able to do.
The following is excerpted from; Women in the Scriptures: Phebe
Even though Paul never personally ministered to the saints in Rome he sent them instruction and encouragement in the form of a letter, which is now the book of Romans in the New Testament. His letter to them was written towards the end of his time in Corinth ( Acts 20:3), Paul hoped that after his visit to Jerusalem he would then be able to visit Rome. At the conclusion of his letter (Romans 16) he gave a long list of greetings to friends and fellow saints who were then living or ministering in Rome. Romans 16 is unique because it gives us an intimate glimpse into the members of the early Christian church, it is also unique because 10 of the 29 people mentioned by Paul in his letter are women-- including his letter carrier Phebe.

If it wasn't for all these women co-workers in the New Testament the gospel would not have spread as quickly as it did and despite your apparent disdain for women being able to be pastors, it doesn't stop them today nor did it then. The fact that you and people of your ilk on this thread continue to condemn and even state that people with my opinion are not Christian the fact is that there is no difference in the New Testament between men and women in God's eyes. If you knew God you would know that.

Stan nobody is saying anything against woman and there needed ministries in the church. But also the Bible says nothing about that woman should be pastors ore eldest ore leader in a church. Not single woman is mentioned in this position. And the verses i and others are mentioned in 1.Tim 2,12-14 f.e. saying clear that a woman should not have authority over man. But you are ignoring this verses an give them another meaning. You even are not able to give a clear answer with 2 ore 3 letters whether that was Paul wrote is inspired from the Holy Spirit ore not. You claim to got a special baptism, but you ignore Scripture. For what reason it makes sense for a further didcassion? Your arguments we can find in the egalitian movement.
So we have not the same base. Its the same as i would discuss with an JW. Sorry, this is my last post to you. Hope you find the thruth were you talking about. This what you are stating is not Gods truth which he revealed to us.

 

[StanJ]

O

Stan nobody is saying anything against woman and there needed ministries in the church. But also the Bible says nothing about that woman should be pastors ore eldest ore leader in a church. Not single woman is mentioned in this position. And the verses i and others are mentioned in 1.Tim 2,12-14 f.e. saying clear that a woman should not have authority over man. But you are ignoring this verses an give them another meaning. You even are not able to give a clear answer with 2 ore 3 letters whether that was Paul wrote is inspired from the Holy Spirit ore not. You claim to got a special baptism, but you ignore Scripture. For what reason it makes sense for a further didcassion? Your arguments we can find in the egalitian movement.
So we have not the same base. Its the same as i would discuss with an JW. Sorry, this is my last post to you. Hope you find the thruth were you talking about. This what you are stating is not Gods truth which he revealed to us.

When the Bible says that men and women are of equal value in God's eyes and when the Bible does not say that a woman cannot be a pastor then you are going against the Bible for saying that they cannot be a pastor. Doesn't matter how you justify yourself. Now let me ask you a question, was Paul a pastor?
The fact is I'm not ignoring the scripture, I'm exegeting it and showing you what it does say. You're the one that refuses to accept it, well not just you a few others as well. Has you have not been able to show me where scripture does unequivocally say that women cannot be pastors then the false teaching is on your end by saying they can't.
The following excerpt is from Wikipedia;
The Southern Baptist Convention does not support the ordination of women; however, some churches that are members of the SBC have ordained women. Cooperative Baptist Fellowship churches actively encourage and ordain women to ministry, including as pastors.
It is quite sad that it has taken the church more than two millennia to come to a real understanding of the of the egalitarian nature of the Gospel but I'm very happy that is now happening and will continue to happen much more frequently in the future.
the congregation that refused to allow women to be part of the leadership and growth of the body of Christ are the congregations that will wither and die!

https://godswordtowomen.org/pastors.htm

 

[VCO]

As you've already shown that you don't really understand the scripture that is presented to you then why bother bringing up other scripture that you don't understand either? You seem to forget that the topic of this thread is 'women pastors', and as such has nothing to do with everything you posted above.
What exactly does Ephesians 4:11 tell you? Does it say anything about these offices being restricted to men? Is there any verse in the New Testament that shows that being a pastor, ποιμένας (poimenas), is restricted to a man? No, there isn't, so as Paul says nowhere else in the New Testament that a pastor has to be a man then what exactly are you arguing?

1 Timothy 2:11-12 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

Ephesians 4:11-12 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
[SUP]12 [/SUP] for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,


First: I correct myself, the word Pastor is in the Bible, and it is LINKED to TEACHERS. Literally a Pastor is a TEACHING ELDER.

When was 1 Timothy written?

This dates the epistle {1 Timothy} to either about the year 58 or 59. . .

When was Ephesians written?

{Ephesians} was probably written from Rome during Paul's first imprisonment (3:1; 4:1; 6:20), and probably soon after his arrival there in the year 62, four years after he had parted with the Ephesian elders at Miletus.

Why should he repeat himself and make the gender clear, when he already made that CLEAR 3 or 4 years before?

Second: We use the Berean way of Interpretation; while you obviously do not:


Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.


We compare Scripture to Scripture to be sure we are not creating a Contradiction with our personal Interpretation.


ADDITIONAL pertinent information:

. . .
D. Gift of Pastor(Eph. 4:11) This position is in operation today but unfortunately there is much misunderstanding as to just what a pastor is to do.
Unfortunately most of those who hold this position to not really understand what they are scripturally supposed to be doing. When we closely examine Eph. 4:11 we will find that this might be a hyphenated word; i.e., pastor-teacher, for he fulfills both positions at the same time1. The Position of pastor-teacher.
To really understand this position we must examine it as is written in the original Greek text (poimên kai didaskalos).What we have here are two nouns and aconjunction. First we will examine these two noun.
a. poimên
This word means “shepherd.” This denotes the function of the position.
(1) Task of a shepherd–what he does.
To understand the true meaning of this word we must determine just what it is that a shepherd does.
(a) The shepherd feeds his flock;
(b) The shepherd protects his flock;
(c) The shepherd leads his flock;
(d) The shepherd watches over his flock;
(2) What the shepherd CANNOT do.
There is one thing that the shepherd cannot possibly do: he cannot reproduce his flock. Then who does reproduce his flock? The answer is simple and obvious: theflock reproduces itself! b. didaskalos
As the English text indicates, this word means, “teacher, instructor or trainer.”
This denotes the duty of the position of pastor.
Notice that nowhere do we see that this positions shows that the pastor is to be the sole, or even chiefsoul-winner. In fact, the passage does not indicate that the pastor is even to do the evangelizing,or soul-winning(i.e., flock reproducing), in the local church. Now, having investigated the twonouns, we now come to the third Greek word—the conjunction.
c. kai–This little Greek word is a very interesting word.
This word kai is usually translated into English as “and;” but, interestingly enough, it can also be rendered as “even,” or “also.” Therefore, perhaps a better way of translating these three words might be, “shepherd (or pastor), even a teacher;” or, perhaps as “shepherd (or pastor), also a teacher.” But we are not finished with this office of pastor. We have looked at: the meaningof the office; ; andthe dutyof the office. of pastor. But there is third aspect of this position.2. Position of Overseer ( aka, Bishop) (I Tim. 3:1-2)
In this chapter the Holy Spirit, through the inspired pen of the apostle Paul, introduces us to thethird aspect of this position of pastor-teacher; to the position of overseerof the local church, for that is what the word really means.
a. The original Greek word.
The Greek word which we translate as “bishop” is (episkopos).
b. Meaning of the word. means “overseer.”|
Unfortunately, the KJV translators erroneously rendered this word as,“bishop.”
Why they did mis-translating we will look into lster.
This describes the authority of the office of pastor, for a pastor has been given, by Christ Himself, the oversight of the local church. But even though he has this authority from Christ, remember, as the Lord Jesus said, “for unto whosoever much is given, of him shall be much required.” Along with the authority given to pastors comes a grave responsibility to the Lord as to how he fulfills this position. c. Qualifications for the position When we examine the qualifications of I Tim. 3:2-7, we find that all but one of these have to do with the personal or ethical qualifications of bishops. This one exception is found in verse 2, which says that the bishop must be, “apt to teach.” Notice that this qualification goes along with that which was given in Eph. 4:11—“pastor and teacher.”You cannot get around the fact that a pastor’sprimary responsibility to his flock is that he is to be their teacher, and he must have the ability to do that very thing.There is yet one more title at which we must look, and to do so we must go to Acts 20:17 to find this title.This is the title of “elder.”3. Position of Elder (acts 20:17, 28)
a. The original word
The Greek word that is translated as “elder,” is (presbuteros).
(1) This is the root word from which we get our English word of presbytery or Presbyterian.
(2) This denotes the dignity due the office. When we look at Acts 20:28 we see that Paul is speaking to these “elders” from Ephesus, he applies the task of pastor–“…the flock,” and the task of overseer—“which the Holy Spirit hath made you overseers,” to these very same elders. Also, when we look at I Peter 5:1-2, we see that that apostle also applies these titles together to himself..
Now to summarize these four titles: pastor, teacher, overseer-bishop and elder—all four of these titles are for the one and same office; to the Office ofPastorof a local church (flock). Each of these titles shows a differ aspect or function of this all-important office in the local church.
. . .
http://pastors-study.com/author/danthony/

 

[StanJ]

1 Timothy 2:11-12 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

The context here is a husband-wife relationship which is why Paul compared it to Adam and Eve who are also husband and wife.

Ephesians 4:11-12 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
[SUP]12 [/SUP] for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
First: I correct myself, the word Pastor is in the Bible, and it is LINKED to TEACHERS. Literally a Pastor is a TEACHING ELDER.

Wrong.... the word Pastor in the Greek means Shepherd not Elder. You really have a bad habit of assigning the wrong English to a Greek word it's not surprising seeing as you don't really understand how to study Greek. Now where are the qualifications for a Shepherd in the scripture?

When was 1 Timothy written?
When was Ephesians written?

Irrelevant.

Why should he repeat himself and make the gender clear, when he already made that CLEAR 3 or 4 years before?

Because inspiration does not assume one knows what else was written to somebody else at another time. You may have the convenience of having all the scriptures together but those in the early church did not, and every word and every letter that Paul wrote was important and necessary. To use your reasoning Paul would have written one letter for all the churches and not written anything else but that is not the way it works or worked. Now you're just using human rationality try to justify your bias instead of accepting what the scripture actually says in plain words.

Second: We use the Berean way of Interpretation; while you obviously do not:
Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
We compare Scripture to Scripture to be sure we are not creating a Contradiction with our personal Interpretation.
ADDITIONAL pertinent information:

Who is we? What the heck is a Berean way of interpretation? What the Jews did in Berea in the synagogue was compare what Paul wrote about the Old Testament to what they knew about the Old Testament and as such decided that his message was correct as far as the Old Testament was concerned. They knew nothing about the New Covenant until Paul preached it to them, or did you neglect to read verse 10 to get the proper context and perspective here? You sure are grasping at straws here.
Who really cares what set of Jews were more noble than another? Luke was making an observation about the people not about the accuracy of what Paul was writing and he certainly wasn't in any way shape or form just to find your protector review of Paul's writings. Whoever wrote this pastor study that you copied and pasted into your post is not a very good exegete as far as I can tell. You makes a bunch of assumptions rather than showing how the word arrived at his conclusions. When somebody says a word means this but can also mean this this and this and then chooses the least likely connotation of those words, that shows that he is working from a predispositional bias. Guess I'm not surprised you would quote this guy given you have the same predispositional bias.

 

[VCO]

The context here is a husband-wife relationship which is why Paul compared it to Adam and Eve who are also husband and wife.

Wrong.... the word Pastor in the Greek means Shepherd not Elder. You really have a bad habit of assigning the wrong English to a Greek word it's not surprising seeing as you don't really understand how to study Greek. Now where are the qualifications for a Shepherd in the scripture?

Irrelevant.

Because inspiration does not assume one knows what else was written to somebody else at another time. You may have the convenience of having all the scriptures together but those in the early church did not, and every word and every letter that Paul wrote was important and necessary. To use your reasoning Paul would have written one letter for all the churches and not written anything else but that is not the way it works or worked. Now you're just using human rationality try to justify your bias instead of accepting what the scripture actually says in plain words.

Who is we? What the heck is a Berean way of interpretation? What the Jews did in Berea in the synagogue was compare what Paul wrote about the Old Testament to what they knew about the Old Testament and as such decided that his message was correct as far as the Old Testament was concerned. They knew nothing about the New Covenant until Paul preached it to them, or did you neglect to read verse 10 to get the proper context and perspective here? You sure are grasping at straws here.
Who really cares what set of Jews were more noble than another? Luke was making an observation about the people not about the accuracy of what Paul was writing and he certainly wasn't in any way shape or form just to find your protector review of Paul's writings. Whoever wrote this pastor study that you copied and pasted into your post is not a very good exegete as far as I can tell. You makes a bunch of assumptions rather than showing how the word arrived at his conclusions. When somebody says a word means this but can also mean this this and this and then chooses the least likely connotation of those words, that shows that he is working from a predispositional bias. Guess I'm not surprised you would quote this guy given you have the same predispositional bias.

WRONG, the only thing that is irrelevant here is your style of mis-interpretation.

 

[StanJ]

WRONG, the only thing that is irrelevant here is your style of mis-interpretation.

Well as you haven't been able to prove that then I guess your opinion isn't worth anything.

 

[VCO]

One can play games with the word of God in this life...but one day the last game will have been played. The bible is abundantly clear that God does not want women in authority over men in the church...the Spirit of God would never led a person to claim that women can be in authority over men in the church. Those who take a position that the word of God says that women can not be in authority over men in the church, obviously have no fear of God...and that is very scary!

I think you inserted the word not above by mistake. Don't you just hate that 5 minute edit rule?

And our LORD described that lack of obedience and submission here:


Matthew 7:21-23 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

 

[jerry2465]

Well as you haven't been able to prove that then I guess your opinion isn't worth anything.

you haven't proven anything either slick. You undoubtedly think you have, but your WRONG!!! Just because you can write a 10 page essay about how your twisting the word don't make it right. It really only boils down to how much you fear God. If I am trying to please God then I won't take a chance on doing ANYTHING contrary to his will. There are zero examples of a female leading a church in the first century and there are some specific verses that you ignore that plainly say that it isn't permitted. I will play it safe and let men lead the assembly that I attend and not take any chances on going against Gods will. I HAVE TOO MUCH FEAR TO DO IT YOUR WAY!!

 

[Dino246]

you haven't proven anything either slick. You undoubtedly think you have, but your WRONG!!! Just because you can write a 10 page essay about how your twisting the word don't make it right. It really only boils down to how much you fear God. If I am trying to please God then I won't take a chance on doing ANYTHING contrary to his will. There are zero examples of a female leading a church in the first century and there are some specific verses that you ignore that plainly say that it isn't permitted. I will play it safe and let men lead the assembly that I attend and not take any chances on going against Gods will. I HAVE TOO MUCH FEAR TO DO IT YOUR WAY!!

The Holy Spirit does not promote fear (but rather conviction). For what spirit are you speaking?

What you base your position on is that the translators fully understood and accurately and completely represented the original sense of the original language. Basing your position on the English of isolated verses, and then continually preaching warnings for those who "disobey" your interpretation, doesn't hold water and adds nothing to your position.

If, as you claim, this "boils down to how much you fear God," (which I don't accept) then I suggest you fear Him enough to make absolutely sure that your interpretation of the relevant passages is absolutely watertight. That means dealing with the material that Angela presented on pages 5 and 7... at a minimum.

How about you (and everyone else with a complementarian perspective) completely drop the "fear God" trump card and actually try to understand and respond calmly and rationally to the arguments presented against your position(s).

 

[jerry2465]

You had better have a healthy fear and absolute respect for God. He wants things done his way just as Noah had specific instructions on exactly how to build the arc and how the Israelites had very specific and exact details on the tabernacle and how God had specific details on how the the temple was to be built and how specific it was to put blood on the doorpost on the passover, and on and on it goes.HE WANTS TO BE WORSHIPED HIS WAY!!. He has a specific order that HE wants. Its not what I want, its what he wants. I am not the one to argue with God or to claim that his word which is very clear don't mean what it says.

Luke 12:4-5English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]“I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body, and after that have nothing more that they can do. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell.[SUP][a][/SUP] Yes, I tell you, fear him!


Hebrews 10:31English Standard Version (ESV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[wolfwint]

The Holy Spirit does not promote fear (but rather conviction). For what spirit are you speaking?

What you base your position on is that the translators fully understood and accurately and completely represented the original sense of the original language. Basing your position on the English of isolated verses, and then continually preaching warnings for those who "disobey" your interpretation, doesn't hold water and adds nothing to your position.

If, as you claim, this "boils down to how much you fear God," (which I don't accept) then I suggest you fear Him enough to make absolutely sure that your interpretation of the relevant passages is absolutely watertight. That means dealing with the material that Angela presented on pages 5 and 7... at a minimum.

How about you (and everyone else with a complementarian perspective) completely drop the "fear God" trump card and actually try to understand and respond calmly and rationally to the arguments presented against your position(s).

I have read what Angela statet in Post 97 (page 5) It is not really convincent if somebody is given his/her personell meaning to the text of the bible. To argue that 1. Timothy was only a personell letter and has no meaning for the church:

"So imagine if some of them get saved, or pretend to be saved, and came into a church, and start domineering and doing all kinds of cultic things. Well, I agree these women should not be in control. They should not be exercising authority over anyone. They need to unlearn a LOT of things!

So Paul was right to tell Timothy in a private letter, to kindly keep these women under control in Ephesus. Does this one verse apply to ALL women for ALL time? Well, I think it is best that neither men nor women dominate. So in that sense, it is universal. But because Paul picked this word - the ONLY time he used it in all his letters, he was not talking about any kind of authority given by God. That would be exousia. Instead, he was giving instructions for Timothy to take these new women converts in hand, and get them to listen and learn. Maybe later, some of them could be preachers and evangelists. Prisca was certainly a teacher of the word. Why would Paul commend her, if he wanted her to be permanently silent? It makes absolutely no sense!" text from Angela Post 97

This is simply eisegese and an own view said with clever words to explain why it could not be what is written in 1. Tim 2,12-14.
And the people in the time of the letter understand exactly what we understand when we read the text. Ore you not think it. In my german bible I can understand the same as I read the text in english. If we can not trust the translators then we must see, that all bible translaters were wrong. Because I found no one who translates this mentioned passage different as it is written.
You really must bring up many work to proof that woman can be pastor. But you cant do it from the bible!

 

[Dino246]

You had better have a healthy fear and absolute respect for God. He wants things done his way just as Noah had specific instructions on exactly how to build the arc and how the Israelites had very specific and exact details on the tabernacle and how God had specific details on how the the temple was to be built and how specific it was to put blood on the doorpost on the passover, and on and on it goes.HE WANTS TO BE WORSHIPED HIS WAY!!. He has a specific order that HE wants. Its not what I want, its what he wants. I am not the one to argue with God or to claim that his word which is very clear don't mean what it says.

Luke 12:4-5English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]“I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body, and after that have nothing more that they can do. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell.[SUP][a][/SUP] Yes, I tell you, fear him!


Hebrews 10:31English Standard Version (ESV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Does this fear-mongering work for you in real life?

 

[StanJ]

You undoubtedly think you have, but your WRONG!!! Just because you can write a 10 page essay about how your twisting the word don't make it right. It really only boils down to how much you fear God. If I am trying to please God then I won't take a chance on doing ANYTHING contrary to his will. There are zero examples of a female leading a church in the first century and there are some specific verses that you ignore that plainly say that it isn't permitted. I will play it safe and let men lead the assembly that I attend and not take any chances on going against Gods will. I HAVE TOO MUCH FEAR TO DO IT YOUR WAY!!

Basically this post shows two things;
1: You have never really studied the issue as Paul admonishes us to do in 2 Timothy 2:15
2: Your relationship with God is based on fear, not on love and understanding and a desire to know.

 

[StanJ]

Does this fear-mongering work for you in real life?

It is a court of last resort for many people because of an extreme amount of cognitive dissonance.They can't argue it out to support their own point of view so they resort to condemnation, but they forget what the Bible says about that;
Rom 8:1-2
[FONT=&quot]Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,[/FONT][FONT=&quot]because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you freefrom the law of sin and death.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

 

[jerry2465]

It is a court of last resort for many people because of an extreme amount of cognitive dissonance.They can't argue it out to support their own point of view so they resort to condemnation, but they forget what the Bible says about that;
Rom 8:1-2
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you freefrom the law of sin and death.

again, I can assure you that I have not even the slightest feeling of panic or (cognitive dissonance), I simply CHOOSE to obey. I would recommend that you do the same.

 

[StanJ]

again, I can assure you that I have not even the slightest feeling of panic or (cognitive dissonance), I simply CHOOSE to obey. I would recommend that you do the same.

If you didn't suffer from cognitive dissonance you wouldn't be so vehemently denying it. How exactly are you obeying the scripture by condemning those who disagree with you and can support their POV unlike yourself?

 

[jerry2465]

I'm not condemning anyone, I am simply saying that I will choose to play it safe and do as scripture plainly says. You can take your chances on disobeying God.

 

[jerry2465]

Basically this post shows two things;
1: You have never really studied the issue as Paul admonishes us to do in 2 Timothy 2:15
2: Your relationship with God is based on fear, not on love and understanding and a desire to know.

This post proves 1 thing and 1 thing only. You are very unaware of what the bible says throughout, with how God gives very clear instruction on how HE WANTS things to be if we are followers of him. I do absolutely refuse to continue with this argument and it has nothing to do whatsoever with my understanding or as you ignorantly say "cognitive dissonance". You say that people who believe what I believe are lacking understanding and go as far as to state that "our opinion isn't worth anything", but I or we can say the exact same thing about you. You have zero understanding. God will be the judge between us in the end. Farewell