Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004
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o.k., maybe this helps- an apple tree produces apples because it is an apple tree. it does not have to have someone standing over it, threating to chop it down if it does not produce fruit. it will produce fruit if it a healthy tree.'
a Christian will do good works. a real relationship with Christ will produce a changed, new life. we want to do good works because we are saved and reborn. a true believer does not need someone standing over them, threating with loss of salvation if they do not " do right ". we want to do right.
a Christian will do good works. a real relationship with Christ will produce a changed, new life. we want to do good works because we are saved and reborn. a true believer does not need someone standing over them, threating with loss of salvation if they do not " do right ". we want to do right.
I agree that we can't judge anothers soul.
But it seems to me that it's the OSAS crowd that wants to judge.
They say that if one FALLS AWAY, then it means that person was never saved to begin with. HOW could they say that?
How could they know if the person was saved or not?
If a person tells me they love God, I have to assume that they are saved.
If a person tells me they hate God, I have to assume they aren't saved.
If they tell a OSAS person they hate God, the assumption will be that
a. They are STILL saved
b. They were never saved to begin with.
It's so confusing, I can't even deal with it.
I just go by what I'm told. And in the end only God knows anyway because He knows the heart, I only know what I'm being told.
Peter and Thomas.
All this happened before the resurrection and before Thomas saw Jesus. Could you imagine hearing that someone had come back to life? If I recall correctly, none of the Apostles really believed it till they saw Him. They were trying to remember all Jesus had said. Some of them were doubtful even when they saw Him!
So even though Peter is brought up and also Thomas, I don't think it's a valid comparison. NOW we know the truth - so if we deny it, we deny Christ. 2 Timothy 2:12
Peter was afraid. Did he really undersand who Jesus was? The Christ, the Son of the Living God. Did he really b elieve He would come back to life? They were all shocked to see Jesus alive.
The Holy Spirit is not happy, or He is grieved to know someone does not believe in God --- in Him.
Is it impossible for someone to stop believing in God once he has been born again??
But it seems to me that it's the OSAS crowd that wants to judge.
They say that if one FALLS AWAY, then it means that person was never saved to begin with. HOW could they say that?
How could they know if the person was saved or not?
If a person tells me they love God, I have to assume that they are saved.
If a person tells me they hate God, I have to assume they aren't saved.
If they tell a OSAS person they hate God, the assumption will be that
a. They are STILL saved
b. They were never saved to begin with.
It's so confusing, I can't even deal with it.
I just go by what I'm told. And in the end only God knows anyway because He knows the heart, I only know what I'm being told.
Peter and Thomas.
All this happened before the resurrection and before Thomas saw Jesus. Could you imagine hearing that someone had come back to life? If I recall correctly, none of the Apostles really believed it till they saw Him. They were trying to remember all Jesus had said. Some of them were doubtful even when they saw Him!
So even though Peter is brought up and also Thomas, I don't think it's a valid comparison. NOW we know the truth - so if we deny it, we deny Christ. 2 Timothy 2:12
Peter was afraid. Did he really undersand who Jesus was? The Christ, the Son of the Living God. Did he really b elieve He would come back to life? They were all shocked to see Jesus alive.
The Holy Spirit is not happy, or He is grieved to know someone does not believe in God --- in Him.
Is it impossible for someone to stop believing in God once he has been born again??
Peter and Thomas are valid examples and make the scriptures as such....the only reason you reject them is because they contradict your belief Fran
Peter flat out denied the Lord, used foul language in the process and Thomas flat out denied the Lord's resurrection....end of story.....neither LOST their salvation.......once one believes into JESUS they are eternally secure....end of story
JESUS was clear...HE WILL FINISH WHAT HE STARTED
WILL COMPLETE the work
and WILL not FORSAKE ANYONE that acknowledges him in faith
Peter flat out denied the Lord, used foul language in the process and Thomas flat out denied the Lord's resurrection....end of story.....neither LOST their salvation.......once one believes into JESUS they are eternally secure....end of story
JESUS was clear...HE WILL FINISH WHAT HE STARTED
WILL COMPLETE the work
and WILL not FORSAKE ANYONE that acknowledges him in faith
I agree!
We're discussing a doctrine here.
I'm not judging anyone.
I'm just stating that salvation could be lost.
It's not being done to scare anyone or keep them in line.
That's not my job. I have enough trouble keeping myself in line.
We will never be sin-free. The Holy Spirit helps us. Our love for Jesus
makes us desire not to hurt His feeling after what He did for us.
So what are we doing? We're going from one extreme to the other?
It's either WORKS, heaven forbid, or THE CHRISTIAN POLICE STATE
OR
Let's not say anything and let's just all go our merry way for fear of hearing the word "works".
Is this the problem?
I DON'T GET THE PROBLEM.
We're saved by grace through faith...
THEN we WANT to do good works.
It's still works.
We're discussing a doctrine here.
I'm not judging anyone.
I'm just stating that salvation could be lost.
It's not being done to scare anyone or keep them in line.
That's not my job. I have enough trouble keeping myself in line.
We will never be sin-free. The Holy Spirit helps us. Our love for Jesus
makes us desire not to hurt His feeling after what He did for us.
So what are we doing? We're going from one extreme to the other?
It's either WORKS, heaven forbid, or THE CHRISTIAN POLICE STATE
OR
Let's not say anything and let's just all go our merry way for fear of hearing the word "works".
Is this the problem?
I DON'T GET THE PROBLEM.
We're saved by grace through faith...
THEN we WANT to do good works.
It's still works.
Amazing Grace how sweet that sound that saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but know I'm found was blind but know I see.
John 8:29
And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.”
John 6:39
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
[h=2]You can lose yourself[/h]Some people shift the burden of responsibility from Christ to the Christian when it comes to not being lost. They say that Jesus will not lose anyone, but the person can lose himself. Therefore, it is not Jesus who is doing the losing but the individual who rebels against God. This objection cannot work because if someone were to turn from Christ (if that is even possible after being regenerate), then Jesus would fail to resurrect those given to him by God the Father. Notice that in John 6:39 the will of the Father is that all who have been given to the Son will be raised on the last day. Again, Jesus said that he always does the Father's will. So, Jesus must resurrect them (to glory) on the last day, or he has failed even if "they lose themselves." Jesus is performing the action of the resurrection because he says so in John 6:40, " . . . and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." So, if a person can "lose himself," then Jesus will not be able to do the will of the Father by resurrecting to glory that person who has been given to him by the Father. Again, that would mean Jesus failed to do the will of the Father, which cannot happen. (CARM)
Amazing grace
I once was lost but know I'm found was blind but know I see.
John 8:29
And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.”
John 6:39
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
[h=2]You can lose yourself[/h]Some people shift the burden of responsibility from Christ to the Christian when it comes to not being lost. They say that Jesus will not lose anyone, but the person can lose himself. Therefore, it is not Jesus who is doing the losing but the individual who rebels against God. This objection cannot work because if someone were to turn from Christ (if that is even possible after being regenerate), then Jesus would fail to resurrect those given to him by God the Father. Notice that in John 6:39 the will of the Father is that all who have been given to the Son will be raised on the last day. Again, Jesus said that he always does the Father's will. So, Jesus must resurrect them (to glory) on the last day, or he has failed even if "they lose themselves." Jesus is performing the action of the resurrection because he says so in John 6:40, " . . . and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." So, if a person can "lose himself," then Jesus will not be able to do the will of the Father by resurrecting to glory that person who has been given to him by the Father. Again, that would mean Jesus failed to do the will of the Father, which cannot happen. (CARM)
Amazing grace
There was no such thing as salvation as we know it till AFTER Jesus died and was resurrected.
Surely you must know this.
The New Testament, right?
The New Covenant.
A testament is not valid till the DEATH of the person leaving the inheritance.
Peter was afraid. Humanly afraid. It was not denying the HOLY SPIRIT.
If I deny Jesus because I might get my head cut off, am I REALLY denying Him??
NO.
Thomas. As I said ALL the Apostles had trouble believing Jesus had come back to life.
We use Thomas as a good example because he DOUBTED and SAW Jesus, so we who do not see Him and still believe are blessed.
You know how many times I taught this. DOUBT is normal and natural and can happen to us because we're human.
DOUBTING is not the same as denying. And I don't mean Peter's type of denying...
Surely you must know this.
The New Testament, right?
The New Covenant.
A testament is not valid till the DEATH of the person leaving the inheritance.
Peter was afraid. Humanly afraid. It was not denying the HOLY SPIRIT.
If I deny Jesus because I might get my head cut off, am I REALLY denying Him??
NO.
Thomas. As I said ALL the Apostles had trouble believing Jesus had come back to life.
We use Thomas as a good example because he DOUBTED and SAW Jesus, so we who do not see Him and still believe are blessed.
You know how many times I taught this. DOUBT is normal and natural and can happen to us because we're human.
DOUBTING is not the same as denying. And I don't mean Peter's type of denying...
Nice try..no dice Fran.....salvation began the moment God began to reconcile the world unto himself before he cast down creation...Abraham believed God and it was put to his account for righteousness...DAVID speaks in the Psalms concerning the JOY of his SALVATION which was based upon faith as well....Job also had faith and knew and understood the resurrection and his redeemer!
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This message is not for those who have already hardened their heart to whereas the whole council of God, both the goodness and severity of the Lord, can work therein, but for those who are still seeking, thirsting and hungering for righteousness.
Money and vast merchandising schemes demand the unbiblical term “accept Jesus” > Whereas John the Baptist, Peter on Pentecost day, and even Jesus first words after He returned from the wilderness after 40 days commanded them to “repent and believe/obey” belief is synonymous with obey in the text. John said bring forth works worthy of repentance, for a good tree cannot produce bad fruit, thus lay the ax of repentance to the root and come clean with God in a season of godly sorrow with vengefulness and zeal over past sins, a repentance not to be regretted described by Paul in 2 Cor. 7-11..
2 Cor. 7-11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, (coming clean with God whereas the rebellion stops) yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
All through the scriptures its confess and forsake first, then mercy and pardon afterwards
Isaiah 55-7
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Proverbs 28-13
He who covers his sins will not prosper, (penal substation magic covers) But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy. (Enter into a covenant relationship being accepted by God through His mercy)
James 4-8
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. (this is a work that we are to do in repentance, coming clean of guile and iniquity and ulterior motives) 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. (again blessed are they that mourn said Jesus) 10
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
James 1-21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, ( a work that you do) and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. (parable of the sower, whereas the seed falls on a good and honest heart made ready to receive the word)
These saying can be found all throughout the text in Jeremiah, Isiah, etc..And even in the beginning of procreation in Gen 4-7..”IF thou doest well will thou not be aceepted” What well up from an honest heart of sincerity, (fountains of living water welling up and overflowing from the heart) if not the dry cisterns of sin will overtake you…Notice it’s always coming clean with God first, then mercy is granted and He accepts you…They never want to harmonize the full weight of scripture, but rather pick a few here and there out of context and stitch some dead franken gospel together
They actually have it backwards. God doesn’t need to be reconciled to us upon our approval by accepting Jesus… But rather it’s God who accepts us through the reconciliation of the blood atonement at the mercy seat of God (Christ Jesus) via a godly sorrow and repentance (blessed are they that mourn (in anguish over sin in a godly sorrow), and blessed are those who thirst and hunger for righteousness, Matt.5)…God doesn’t need to be reconciled back to us. Money demands instant results (entitlement mindset) so there is no season of godly sorrow in repentance (no matter how long that takes) so they bring them into the kingdom having both eyes active and intact..Jesus, and James warned that the false prophets gain a greater damnation, because they do not enter in themselves, and also block others from entering…Or as Paul said; blood on their hands. He who confesses and forsakes his sin shall find mercy. They say we are in the new covenant and not the old, but then proclaim Penal Substitution which is no covenant at all, lest it be a covenant with death and hell, Very strange.....did deep and build your good works on the foundation of Truth, lest the global flood of lies sweep that house away in the river of deception........
Money and vast merchandising schemes demand the unbiblical term “accept Jesus” > Whereas John the Baptist, Peter on Pentecost day, and even Jesus first words after He returned from the wilderness after 40 days commanded them to “repent and believe/obey” belief is synonymous with obey in the text. John said bring forth works worthy of repentance, for a good tree cannot produce bad fruit, thus lay the ax of repentance to the root and come clean with God in a season of godly sorrow with vengefulness and zeal over past sins, a repentance not to be regretted described by Paul in 2 Cor. 7-11..
2 Cor. 7-11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, (coming clean with God whereas the rebellion stops) yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
All through the scriptures its confess and forsake first, then mercy and pardon afterwards
Isaiah 55-7
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Proverbs 28-13
He who covers his sins will not prosper, (penal substation magic covers) But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy. (Enter into a covenant relationship being accepted by God through His mercy)
James 4-8
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. (this is a work that we are to do in repentance, coming clean of guile and iniquity and ulterior motives) 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. (again blessed are they that mourn said Jesus) 10
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
James 1-21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, ( a work that you do) and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. (parable of the sower, whereas the seed falls on a good and honest heart made ready to receive the word)
These saying can be found all throughout the text in Jeremiah, Isiah, etc..And even in the beginning of procreation in Gen 4-7..”IF thou doest well will thou not be aceepted” What well up from an honest heart of sincerity, (fountains of living water welling up and overflowing from the heart) if not the dry cisterns of sin will overtake you…Notice it’s always coming clean with God first, then mercy is granted and He accepts you…They never want to harmonize the full weight of scripture, but rather pick a few here and there out of context and stitch some dead franken gospel together
They actually have it backwards. God doesn’t need to be reconciled to us upon our approval by accepting Jesus… But rather it’s God who accepts us through the reconciliation of the blood atonement at the mercy seat of God (Christ Jesus) via a godly sorrow and repentance (blessed are they that mourn (in anguish over sin in a godly sorrow), and blessed are those who thirst and hunger for righteousness, Matt.5)…God doesn’t need to be reconciled back to us. Money demands instant results (entitlement mindset) so there is no season of godly sorrow in repentance (no matter how long that takes) so they bring them into the kingdom having both eyes active and intact..Jesus, and James warned that the false prophets gain a greater damnation, because they do not enter in themselves, and also block others from entering…Or as Paul said; blood on their hands. He who confesses and forsakes his sin shall find mercy. They say we are in the new covenant and not the old, but then proclaim Penal Substitution which is no covenant at all, lest it be a covenant with death and hell, Very strange.....did deep and build your good works on the foundation of Truth, lest the global flood of lies sweep that house away in the river of deception........
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If OSAS are judging because they say that the person was never saved to begin with then surely you are judging doing the opposite. This person was saved has now fallen away. So in a sense you are making a judgment they were saved in the first place.
So what have you been told and why do you believe it?
Peter and Thomas saw Jesus first hand and all that he did. They touched him, eat with him, did miracles with him. They saw the truth heard him preach the truth and even say "I'm the way the truth and the life no won can come before me unless the Father gives them to me and those he has I will raise him up on the last day"
So what have you been told and why do you believe it?
Peter and Thomas saw Jesus first hand and all that he did. They touched him, eat with him, did miracles with him. They saw the truth heard him preach the truth and even say "I'm the way the truth and the life no won can come before me unless the Father gives them to me and those he has I will raise him up on the last day"
It has always been about faith.....
OT in faith looked to the ------------->cross<---------------NT looks back to the cross
Both were saved by faith......
I bought a truck from a Ford dealer in 2010 NEW...called dealer, ran the deal, made the deal and sealed the deal when I showed up a week later and signed the papers........
The GOSPEL (correct message) was preached in Genesis 3:15 and forward........!
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