Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

[AllenW]

Oh man!
I just lost my salvation again!
How many times this gonna happen?

 

[Susanna]

Oh man!
I just lost my salvation again!
How many times this gonna happen?

For so long you keep rolling those dices...lol.

 

[gb9]

Been there and experienced it. In fact I'm surprised I wasn't given the t-shirt that said

"You believe in OSAS, then you will be walking into hell along with all those espouse your evil doctrine to"

Yet they neglect to ask me why. They just quote bible verses to back up thier position whilst ignoring what I could could quote.

I am by no means a greasy gracer. I certainly do not beleive that OSAS gives us licence to sin, do what we want and turn around and say "It's ok I'm forgiven"

In my experience I have known people who walk like this, it horrifies me. I have pulled such people aside and have talked to them. I knew one person who was sleeping with his girlfriend who had this attitude of "God knows I'm a sinner, knows I will sleep with my girfriend so I'm forgiven" at times he tried not to but still did but the attitude was the same.

I just do not get that mentality. We do need wisdome though to determine why people do what they do.

I will hopefully give brief experience concerning me.

I was active in church, led youth group in the church.
I suffered severe anxiety and had a very bad gambling problem.
This overtook me in the and I stopped going to church for about 12 years.

The severe anxiety in the main was caused as a result of at the age of 14 being thrown out by my mum and fostered by a Christian couple.

For the next 5 years my foster dad tried every night to sexually abuse me.
Gambling was my escape and also my snare. I would find myself gambling without actually realising I was. All of a sudden I was in a gambling place, in my own little world. And just so you know I was as miserable whether I won or lost.

No one other than my wife knew this.

I prayed so many times for healing from both and it never came.
Fear and guilt overtook me and as I said stopped going to church.

During that 12 year period no one tried to come alongside me.

I suppose the NOSAS would say their thoughts were right. I'd left church and was no longer part of the church and would be in hell.

What I would like to say is this.

For 12 years I cried every day, I called out to God. I woke up every night at the same time, 2 a.m. tears rolling down my cheeks.
Begging God to forgive me, imploring him to heal me and release me. I even got to the stage where I prayed "God take my life tonight so I know where I am going, I know you will take care of my wife and 4 kids, please put me out of my misery"

I don't think I ever lost my faith or walked away from God and rejected him, even though I stopped going to church.

Praise God and as I type this tears fill my eyes, through 1 person (new pastor in the church)who did come to visit me, loved me where I was at, did not condemn my gambling and was kind and gentle with me and he walked with me.

I came to the place where God walked with me to forgive my abuser, this was proven to me that I had forgiven him when I prayed with him on his death bed and took care of his estate.

I praise God that when I trusted him to help me forgive my abuser he then healed me of my gambling. When I fully put gambling in his hands and as he healed me from the sexual abuse and forgive my abuser my escape and snare was gone.

I have not even had the urge to gamble for the last 5 years.

So what am I trying to say?

Whichever camp you are in let's not be quick to judge. And certainly not put your brother/sister down and be compentable to them. They are your family, Jesus loves them as much as loves you, also Jesus said that our Father loves us all as much as he him.

If you see someone sinning come alongside, if you see someone missing seek them out.
Be like Jesus.

People need healing, some need teaching and reproof.
Be loving like Jesus but also firm like Jesus.
We need to ask for his wisdom.

Do not assume if someone is walking in the works of the flesh is doing so because they don't give two hoots, maybe they do.
If they don't then maybe it's time to ask them "Do you really beleive? Do you know the price that has been paid?

Just my two pence worth.

but, the works salvationists do not see those of us who believe in grace salvation alone as " less than ". they seem to think that we do not know how to walk in obedience and need to be told. the word grace seems to trigger them

 

[BillG]

People ougtha not be labelling others beliefs demonic etc..it's like saying your neighbor is Satan.

I agree.

If any any doctrine detracts from the risen Lord Jesus and his work then it needs to be questioned.

 

[FranC]

Been there and experienced it. In fact I'm surprised I wasn't given the t-shirt that said

"You believe in OSAS, then you will be walking into hell along with all those espouse your evil doctrine to"

Yet they neglect to ask me why. They just quote bible verses to back up thier position whilst ignoring what I could could quote.

I am by no means a greasy gracer. I certainly do not beleive that OSAS gives us licence to sin, do what we want and turn around and say "It's ok I'm forgiven"

In my experience I have known people who walk like this, it horrifies me. I have pulled such people aside and have talked to them. I knew one person who was sleeping with his girlfriend who had this attitude of "God knows I'm a sinner, knows I will sleep with my girfriend so I'm forgiven" at times he tried not to but still did but the attitude was the same.

I just do not get that mentality. We do need wisdome though to determine why people do what they do.

I will hopefully give brief experience concerning me.

I was active in church, led youth group in the church.
I suffered severe anxiety and had a very bad gambling problem.
This overtook me in the and I stopped going to church for about 12 years.

The severe anxiety in the main was caused as a result of at the age of 14 being thrown out by my mum and fostered by a Christian couple.

For the next 5 years my foster dad tried every night to sexually abuse me.
Gambling was my escape and also my snare. I would find myself gambling without actually realising I was. All of a sudden I was in a gambling place, in my own little world. And just so you know I was as miserable whether I won or lost.

No one other than my wife knew this.

I prayed so many times for healing from both and it never came.
Fear and guilt overtook me and as I said stopped going to church.

During that 12 year period no one tried to come alongside me.

I suppose the NOSAS would say their thoughts were right. I'd left church and was no longer part of the church and would be in hell.

What I would like to say is this.

For 12 years I cried every day, I called out to God. I woke up every night at the same time, 2 a.m. tears rolling down my cheeks.
Begging God to forgive me, imploring him to heal me and release me. I even got to the stage where I prayed "God take my life tonight so I know where I am going, I know you will take care of my wife and 4 kids, please put me out of my misery"

I don't think I ever lost my faith or walked away from God and rejected him, even though I stopped going to church.

Praise God and as I type this tears fill my eyes, through 1 person (new pastor in the church)who did come to visit me, loved me where I was at, did not condemn my gambling and was kind and gentle with me and he walked with me.

I came to the place where God walked with me to forgive my abuser, this was proven to me that I had forgiven him when I prayed with him on his death bed and took care of his estate.

I praise God that when I trusted him to help me forgive my abuser he then healed me of my gambling. When I fully put gambling in his hands and as he healed me from the sexual abuse and forgive my abuser my escape and snare was gone.

I have not even had the urge to gamble for the last 5 years.

So what am I trying to say?

Whichever camp you are in let's not be quick to judge. And certainly not put your brother/sister down and be compentable to them. They are your family, Jesus loves them as much as loves you, also Jesus said that our Father loves us all as much as he him.

If you see someone sinning come alongside, if you see someone missing seek them out.
Be like Jesus.

People need healing, some need teaching and reproof.
Be loving like Jesus but also firm like Jesus.
We need to ask for his wisdom.

Do not assume if someone is walking in the works of the flesh is doing so because they don't give two hoots, maybe they do.
If they don't then maybe it's time to ask them "Do you really beleive? Do you know the price that has been paid?

Just my two pence worth.

Hi Bill,

From how I understand the loss of salvation, YOU were never lost.
You cried and prayed. You never grieved the Holy Spirit by denying Him.

It's not so easy to lose salvation, but it is possible.
it has nothing to do with NOT GOING TO CHURCH.
It has nothing to do with sinning.

It has to do with whether or not you have a relationship with God.
If you do, you're Always safe in his arms.
You know how much Church I miss because, I think you know why,
I'd be the first one on the "hell" line!

I love your posts. They're so full of the Spirit and all posts should be like this.

 

[AllenW]

For so long you keep rolling those dices...lol.

You mean you don't gamble every day of your life?
Is that how it works?

 

[FranC]

but, the works salvationists do not see those of us who believe in grace salvation alone as " less than ". they seem to think that we do not know how to walk in obedience and need to be told. the word grace seems to trigger them

What is WORKS SALVATION???

All salvation is from grace through faith.

This is a major misunderstanding IMO.

 

[Susanna]

You mean you don't gamble every day of your life?
Is that how it works?

Sorry AllenW, but that is way above my paygrade to answer.

 

[AllenW]

Sorry AllenW, but that is way above my paygrade to answer.

To me, just getting out of bed everyday is a gamble.

 

[gb9]

What is WORKS SALVATION???

All salvation is from grace through faith.

This is a major misunderstanding IMO.

you say this, then you will say what we have to do to maintain salvation, which make it works.

our salvation has nothing to do with us. Titus 3 explains it nicely.

let me explain this, as there could be a misunderstanding. I read the Bible from start to finish, over and over, have done so 16-18 times. I have my devotionals , but I have a systematic theology, based on reading the Word all the way thru, not just reading certain parts over and over. this could be a cause of the different understandings.

 

[FranC]

Oh man!
I just lost my salvation again!
How many times this gonna happen?

Losing salvation is not a throw of the dice.
It's not something to make fun of.
It has nothing to do with sinning.
It does have to do with grieving the Holy Spirit.

Do you think the Holy Spirit is happy if someone says they don't believe in God?
What if they say they don't believe in God ANYMORE?
Isn't the end result the same?

Could you at least say that the POSSIBILITY exists, or is even that too much?

 

[FranC]

To me, just getting out of bed everyday is a gamble.

NEWS FLASH!!!

It Is For Everyone...

 

[PeterJens]

you can read?? apparently not, because if you could, you would see grace7 did not say what you and others are claiming. you, fran, and willybob owe him an apology. this is pure slander.

I have done nothing for you to forgive, except point out truth. sorry you do not like it.

Not sure what you are saying. I can only speak for myself and my comments were general.

What I have noticed is this continual accusation of something that has not happened.
God bless you anyway.

 

[Susanna]

To me, just getting out of bed everyday is a gamble.

Everything is a gamble. Doing your job is a gamble. You get up in the morning, thinking this could be your last day, and when you get home, you're relieved and thinking one more day down.

 

[BillG]

Sorry AllenW, but that is way above my paygrade to answer.

Whats your paygrade.

is it enough to keep me in the lifestyle I've always wanted to be accustomed to

 

[gb9]

To g7 this is no longer a discussion of interpretation, he deems demons as
the source of following Jesus's example.

Following in Jesus's footsteps appears not to be g7's goal.

In a sense this is not true, but in the confusion of concepts this is where
he is going.

in put this quote here to prove a point.

 

[gb9]

Not sure what you are saying. I can only speak for myself and my comments were general.

What I have noticed is this continual accusation of something that has not happened.
God bless you anyway.

the above is what I talked about, so the I -don't- stuff don't fly. in the above you completely mis-represented what grace 7 said, this is slander. an apology is owed. by you.

 

[BillG]

Losing salvation is not a throw of the dice.
It's not something to make fun of.
It has nothing to do with sinning.
It does have to do with grieving the Holy Spirit.

Do you think the Holy Spirit is happy if someone says they don't believe in God?
What if they say they don't believe in God ANYMORE?
Isn't the end result the same?

Could you at least say that the POSSIBILITY exists, or is even that too much?

What about Peter? What about Thomas?
Peter denied Jesus before he was crucified? Thomas refused to believe after Jesus was risen.

Before judging the the response we need to ask why the response.
It may be just may be fear, or lack of evidence of the love of Jesus in their lives.
Three times Jesus asked Peter "Do you love me" if memory serves me Peters response was not Agape love.

No the Holy Spirit is not happy if someone says he does not believe God but his job is to convince/convict of unbelief.
He did it with Peter and Thomas.

I think what I'm trying to bring out is that we can't judge whether someone is saved or not. That's Gods doing.

We can't judge anymore but try to discern anymore.

 

[BillG]

To me, just getting out of bed everyday is a gamble.

Thats why I don't get out of bed.

 

[FranC]

you say this, then you will say what we have to do to maintain salvation, which make it works.

our salvation has nothing to do with us. Titus 3 explains it nicely.

let me explain this, as there could be a misunderstanding. I read the Bible from start to finish, over and over, have done so 16-18 times. I have my devotionals , but I have a systematic theology, based on reading the Word all the way thru, not just reading certain parts over and over. this could be a cause of the different understandings.

Hi gb9

You really confuse me.
I just read Titus 3. Not for the first time, but I don't have the N.T. memorized - nor do I only have certain verses memorized.
Every post I write is from scatch and not copied from anywhere.

Like you, I have read the N.T. a few times. How could we come up with such differing views? I've also attended two churches that have contributed to my knowledge. I have studied and did some teaching of the Covenants which helped me to understand the O.T. and N.T. much better.

From your statement above, and not only from this but from other's posts, I get the feeling that we mix up justification with sanctification.

You say that we have nothing to do with our salvation. I agree. Eph 3:8 - I get so tired of posting this verse.

Then you say that I have to MAINTAIN my salvation. Well, don't we? What about sancification? Is it all jumbled up and together or are they two different concepts??

Then you tell me that Titus 3 proves your point.

Titus 3 is FULL OF WORKS!

It tells us to be ready for every good deed.
To malign no one, to be uncontentious, gentle, considerat for all men. (Mathew 5:3... The Beautitudes)
Those who have believed God may engagé in good deeds.
These things are good and profitable for men.
Shun controversies and strife and disputes about the Law for they are unprofitable. (the civil and ceremonial law, or the O.C. or Mosaic Law).

Are these not works?? We're exhorted to do good works all thoughout the N.T. Why is works such a dirty word???

Titus 3:4-7
These verses explain how we came to be saved.
He saved us NOT ON THE BASIS of our deeds, but according to his mercy. That being JUSTIFIED by His grace we might be made heirs according to the HOPE of eteranal life.

So SALVATION and JUSTIFICATION are gifts and works of God ONLY.
AFTER salvation and justification, we ARE called to good deeds and SANCTIFICATION.

Where do you see a problem with this?