Are the choices God or man? Does God or man already know the condition of our heart? James said that we SHOW our faith by our works (James 2:18).
SALVATION BASED ON FAITH
- Thread starter Desertsrose
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There is a difference between our individual faith and the faith of Christ. The faith of Christ is what justifies the believer and makes one righteous. The believer's individual faith is our that person is obedient to the Scriptures now that saving faith has come. The believer is to labor in the Lord not for any justifications sake or to prove anything, but out of love for our Saviour knowing that we will stand before the JSOC to give an account for what we have done as a believer.
Our faith, not the faith of Christ. Our individual faith has nothing to do with the salvation work of Christ.
James asks, "Can faith save him?" What say thee? Does James ever answer this question?
We are saved from sin as we let Christ favor people through us (Grace). But this is only possible when we trust fully in Jesus Christ (Faith). And this ability is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth (Romans 9:16), but it is a gift that the Eternal gives to those whom He has chosen because they have responded well to His redemptive work (Ephesians 2:8-9). He is the one who bestows the privilege of loving (1 John 5.3) and thus of being free from a useless and evil life (1 John 4:9).
1 Peter 1:9 says - receiving the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls. Our faith has everything to do with receiving salvation through faith in Christ.
Can that faith save him? What kind of faith is that? Empty profession of faith/dead faith. The answer to that rhetorical question is NO. Key word in James 2:14 - says/claims to have faith but has no works.
Something just struck me.
We are saved because we know Jesus. To know Jesus is to have a relationship with Him, to know
His heart and walk in His ways.
In the sermon on the mount, Jesus rejects some saying He never knew them.
He did not say, you are evil doers so I condemn you. Righteousness has always been
founded on communion with God, not our behaviour, though because we know God we
will walk righteously. Now those who do not know Christ, are happy to do evil, and resolved
this is just who they are, so actually testify they have not understood either the law, righteousness
love or God.
Coming back to God is the story of the prodigal son. It was the relationship and care within this
that brought the son back, and he knew the conditions of behaviour and love this also involved.
Primarily he knew his father, and wanted to be part of the family again.
We are saved because we know Jesus. To know Jesus is to have a relationship with Him, to know
His heart and walk in His ways.
In the sermon on the mount, Jesus rejects some saying He never knew them.
He did not say, you are evil doers so I condemn you. Righteousness has always been
founded on communion with God, not our behaviour, though because we know God we
will walk righteously. Now those who do not know Christ, are happy to do evil, and resolved
this is just who they are, so actually testify they have not understood either the law, righteousness
love or God.
Coming back to God is the story of the prodigal son. It was the relationship and care within this
that brought the son back, and he knew the conditions of behaviour and love this also involved.
Primarily he knew his father, and wanted to be part of the family again.
Sorry, but the above sentiment is untrue. Salvation is 100% God. And later we will see by Scripture that faith comes from God, not "us".
Salvation is not a cooperative effort, that if you do your part, God will do His. Note 1 Corinthians 1:25ff. The above teaching is Pelagian error and is frankly boasting, which is excluded.
Sorry again, salvation is not by choice, nor does it come through choice. Decisional regeneration is a recent invention of C. G. Finney, Robert Sandeman and other false teachers. Many are deceived by it, and popishly guaranteed heaven because of some one time decision. THAT is not the test! The test is for evidence of conversion, not "one day long ago I decided..." No! It is based on what Christ has done, not self, and ALL converted are transformed and bear fruit, 1 Corinthians 3:17ff; Hebrews 12:14.
There was an excellent treatment of this error by Dr. Erwin Lutzer on his recent sermons via www.bottradionetwork.com. He was spot on and exposed this deceptive error.
Better than that, the Scriptures are clear that salvation isn't by man's choice; John 1:13, Romans 9:16; James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:1; 1 Peter 1:3. Faith, again, is not an inherent ability or source, it is external, coming from Christ, Acts 3:16; Romans 10:17; and Ephesians 1:19 which shows that we only believe by the same power that raised Christ from the dead, and that is certainly not some inherent ability or source.
I know the decisional salvation error is popular, but it is a denial of the truth of Scripture.
Now, let the attacks begin.
F
FreeNChrist
Guest
Salvation by God's grace is entirely unconditional. Receiving salvation by God's grace is entirely conditional.....it is conditional upon receiving it. And how we receive it is through faith.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
For by grace ye have been saved THROUGH FAITH, Not of our selves. Not of works.
Faith is technically not a work, because it is Gods work that we trust him (john 6)
Our faith is in the work of God. Not how good we are., or what we did, No one goes around boasting of the fact they have faith in another person.. They boast in that person.
Faith is technically not a work, because it is Gods work that we trust him (john 6)
Our faith is in the work of God. Not how good we are., or what we did, No one goes around boasting of the fact they have faith in another person.. They boast in that person.
The believer also knows the condition of his own heart or else they would not cry out to God for forgiveness of sins.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Grace THROUGH faith.
we are saved by grace.. Saying we are not saved by grace is no different than saying we must work to be saved.. Talk about confusing people
This interests me, because you have thought through your position.
God may choose the elect and everything flows from that choice though we appear to be
involved, it may be just a consequence of what is happening.
Now once we are saved we do have a real choice because we have been brought to a place
of privilege from which to exercise choice. A slave is not free to choose, but a free man
can. It appears that we can choose to preach the word and share and this will bring fruit
by Gods hand, for He does call His elect from wherever His spirit touches and brings life to
them.
It has been said how can a sinner choose life when he does not possess it?
But this might be a false dilemma, because within every sinner there is the acknowledgment
of sin which makes them guilty, so one could argue, it is this problem they are desiring a solution
to and not because of knowledge of Christ. And the choice maybe just calling to Christ out of
a place of hopelessness and not ability to walk righteously which pelegian heresy implies.
So is the call a call of faith or request for help? Does God transform this call for help into a call
for salvation upon quickening so making it a step of faith, as a response to the word?
I did use the argument that we are saved by Christ and the cross and our response in faith
on a thread to see what the arguments were against it.
The grace camp could not oppose it, because they need a response to fit their theology,
but you seem not to, so are a good candidate to argue the case.
Are we truly passive in salvation?
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Oops missed this..sorry about that.
What about the following passage spoken by Christ of the end times? It's another condition...
Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Why is "endurance" a condition of being saved in the end? What are believers meant to endure (i.e. maintain/persevere in), in context? If there wasn't a condition established to remain saved would Christ needed to have said this?
Take for instance the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot's wife was saved from the destruction, IF she did not turn back...but she did turn back and so was no longer saved but was judged with all the rest of them.
What about the following passage spoken by Christ of the end times? It's another condition...
Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Why is "endurance" a condition of being saved in the end? What are believers meant to endure (i.e. maintain/persevere in), in context? If there wasn't a condition established to remain saved would Christ needed to have said this?
Take for instance the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot's wife was saved from the destruction, IF she did not turn back...but she did turn back and so was no longer saved but was judged with all the rest of them.
F
FreeNChrist
Guest
[h=1][/h]"[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved." Heb 10:39[/FONT]
