My grace is sufficient...

Depleted · Apr 12, 2017

Actually, it is what you have! You think God is inept, so up to you to manhandle what you want out of him and out of all others. This is why I see nothing but blahblahblah coming out of you. You try to mug, yet God and his people are not having it.

Proof? Look at your fruit. You've got nothing but spores, and they're aren't even fertile.

Depleted · Apr 12, 2017

truthhurts said:

God isn't stupid! He absolutely knew I'd crumble. He's the one that saved me. "Faith that you will not crumble?" ROFL

Stephen63 · Apr 12, 2017

escapetoreality.org ought to be renamed escapetoidiocy.org

eternally-gratefull · Apr 12, 2017

Rockrz said:

Thankfully, this post showed me where you are.

Pauls thorn was not a roadblock, If anything, Taking this thorn away would have been a roadblock, because it would have given Paul strength to boast in his self. And trust himself to do gods work, which would have hindered him greatly in giving the gospel.

God gave it to him, Not to hinder him, but to help him, If you can not get this point, I do not know what to say. .

BeyondET · Apr 12, 2017

[video=youtube;7dZBlVi8SIQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dZBlVi8SIQ[/video]

oyster67 · Apr 12, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Amen. It was a blessing. God was protecting Paul from himself. Paul came to realize this and expressed appreciation for it shortly thereafter. God can use Satan just as easily as He could use Baalam's donkey.

Stunnedbygrace · Apr 12, 2017

Rockrz said:

In another thread, some religious minded person claims God refused to deliver Paul by saying "My grace is sufficient"... and when I pointed out that Paul did receive deliverance, they said this:

To which I reply... yes, those were a great many afflictions the Lord deliver Paul out of... concerning the false claim that God told Paul He refused to deliver Him by saying "My grace is sufficient"... did anybody ever stop and think what we receive thru grave when we got born again and translated from darkness into the Kingdom of God's Dear Son??? (Colossians 1:13)

We became IN CHRIST and received citizenship in God's Kingdom where we were raised up to sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, far above all principality power and might and dominion (Ephesians 1:19-21)

In the account some claim God told Paul He refused to deliver Paul... it clearly states that it was not sickness but a "messenger of satan" (2 Corinthians 12:7) meaning... wait for it... it was a devil!

This simply means satan assigned a devil to continually oppose Paul to attempt to prevent Paul from being successful in turning as many to Christ as possible and to try and prevent churches from being established.

Now, we know God does not call a man to go do something and then turn around and come against the man to prevent him from doing what the Lord told him to go do, right? Surely even religious people can understand God is not a schizophrenic! God is not opposing Paul here...

Reckon Paul did not know what Jesus said in the Great Commission when He said "these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils (Mark 16:17)

Of course Paul had some learning to do and walking out His salvation... but, it was just a devil and nothing that God sent since God cannot tempt man with evil:

James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man

Apparently Paul did end up being free from that messenger of satan...

Acts 28:30,31
And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

So yeah, we need context as in knowing that when God told Paul "my grace is sufficient" the Lord was telling Him that what Paul received when getting born again was more than enough to whip the devil.

What would be absolutely hilarious if it weren't so sad is... satan has tricked many Christians in to believing that it's either not possible to not be slapped around by the devil and his demons... OR, he tricks many in to believing God is slapping people around or that somehow God is working hand in hand with satan to bring bad things upon people just to teach them rather than using the written Word and the Holy Spirit.

Now that is slow... nuthin like a little religious false teaching eh???

But hey, who am I to stand in the way of you and your devils... enjoy the testings, temptations, and trials!

satan has a storm with your name on it heading your way... and he intends to deceive you in to thinking God is bring it on you or God does not deliver folk from the whiles of the devil.

Funny how so many Christians cannot see and understand satan's tricks when God gives us all the answers in His Word so we'll recognize them.

I agree with a lot of the other posters. You aren't going to catch any fish who have walked with God for any length of time because we DO come to experience that testings and trials bring us great gains and wealth that cannot be measured nor can any price be put on it because it is priceless. We actually come to thank God for abuses and for the very people who abuse us, strange as it sounds, because they were an instrument He used to bring us great blessing and gain. We have learned that He never gives us a stone and that no matter how hard it may seem, it is not a stone but proves to be bread - hot, delicious and causing butter to run down the chin!

You are trying to convince men to not pick up their cross and learn the obedience of trust. You are trying to get them not to live by trust when it is by trust that a righteous man lives.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 12, 2017

oyster67 said:

Amen, we all need protected from ourselves.. If God wants or needs to use Satan, then so be it. As he said, His grace is sufficient.

Stunnedbygrace · Apr 12, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

He used satan, satans plans and satans working to bring us salvation! The worst atrocity satan could ever commit brought us saving! Who can even comprehend it??

joaniemarie · Apr 12, 2017

PennEd said:

Yes, Job knew something of the Redeemer coming in the future but Job didn't have Jesus the Messiah who., having (finished) the work was (sitting) at the right hand of the Father making intersession for him. No he knew he needed someone but he did not have someone., Job didn't have Jesus, We do. We have Jesus OUR Great High Priest making intersession for us all the time continually "day and night"

Job 9:32-33 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him,
That we should come together in judgment.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]There is no umpire betwixt us,
That might lay his hand upon us both.

How amazing is this that "Job's words about God being "aloof and detached from His creation reflect a feeling of helplessness. This led Job to cry out for an umpire or arbitrator, someone who understands both God and man and can bring them together in harmony. God has provided one in His Son, the God-Man, JesusChrist 1Tim.2:5" [SUP]5 [/SUP]For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus,

Taken from Ryrie Bible study notes.

joaniemarie · Apr 12, 2017

Also., this topic was answered before about why we have better promises than Job or David or any of the saints that lived before the new covenant. Before Jesus came, satan had taken the world from Adam and Christ the God-Man had not yet taken it back for us. Read the following parts of posts written by Grace777 and trucker62;

The highest heavens belong to the Lord, but the earth he has given to mankind. (Psa 115:16)

…but in the Garden of Eden man handed control to Satan. So when the Lord says “all that is his is in your hand!” he is stating a painful fact that will ultimately cost Jesus his life.

To sum up, here are four lies that we get from misreading Job 1:

Lie #1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission. In the Garden of Eden we opened the door to sin and have been reaping the consequences ever since.

The good news is it doesn’t have to be this way. By the grace of God the devil flees when we resist him (James 4:7). Don’t be like Job and let the thief plunder your house. Be like David who encouraged himself in the Lord and fought back (1 Sam 30:6).

Lie #2: God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line

Woof! What nonsense. What fellowship does light have with darkness (2 Cor 6:14)?

Lie #3: God gives us sickness and suffering to teach us character

Satan’s aim was to trick God into harming Job, something that God would never do. Although Job thought God was responsible for his loss, God sent Elihu to set him straight. Elihu is a picture of Jesus who went around “healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him” (Acts 10:38). Jesus doesn’t give sickness; he takes it from us.

Lie #4: God “allows” sickness and suffering to afflict us

God does not work for the devil. If God gave the thief permission to rob you, he wouldn’t be a thief.

First Adam lost control of the planet, but last Adam took back what the devil stole. In Christ you are destined to reign like a king (Rom 5:17). But you won’t reign if you heed the lies above and follow Job instead of Jesus.

Grace and peace to you.

Unquote:

I like to use this website sometimes because it has a place at the bottom where we can ask questions and sometimes I learn from this area too for things to consider. Here is the link if anyone is interested in this subject. Enjoy.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/...g/#prettyPhoto[/QUOTE

EXCELLENT!!! I have never read that translation. I especially liked:

eternally-gratefull · Apr 12, 2017

Stunnedbygrace said:

Nothing mor4 powerful than using your enemy to make a fool of himself and do the work you need him to do to fulfil your will

joaniemarie · Apr 12, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Jesus said that in the world we will have tribulations. We have the world, the flesh and the devil. All are enemies which Christ has defeated. All of these attacks are not from God but what these attacks do ( including Paul's torn in the flesh ) is bring out what is already in us.

It's like fire being added to silver and the real silver is what is left over. It doesn't create the silver - it reveals it for what it truly is.

Are we relying on our own self-efforts or God's grace?

I will say that in scripture the word "flesh" is also used in the context of self-effort and relying on our own ways of thinking and living apart from the life of God as our source. There is good looking flesh and bad looking flesh but it is still all flesh.

We all have our beliefs and we all can use scripture to "prove" these beliefs. In reality what we are doing is giving our interpretation of things and if we can find people that believe what we do - then we can use them as a "proof source".

Personally I don't believe for a minute that God sends us sickness to teach us things. It's anti-Christ in it's core belief. Jesus showed the complete opposite and He is the exact representation of the character/nature and will of the Father to us. Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil. Jesus didn't work against His Father.

Our hearts are not wired to believe in a "god" like that - that sends sicknesses to "teach" us things or "to refine us". He uses His words of life. We would throw people in jail for that sort of behavior. Where do we get this sense of moral outrage? From God Himself - it originates from our spirit where Christ dwells knows that is not the true character of God.

God can use any attacks to reveal His love for us and can bring good from out of the mess that was sent to destroy us but He is not the author of those attacks.

I firmly believe when we stand before our loving Father we are going to be appalled at the things we thought He was like.

Very good post Grace777. Getting rid of our human ideas of how God loves us is drastically needed. The hardest things for us humans to do is rid ourselves of prideful things such as our own understanding. To instead do as the Bible says.... Trust in the Lord with all your heart and LEAN NOT to your own understanding....in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths.

Allowing the grace of God to flow in our lives (dumping) the law of sin and death will bring all the great and precious promises into our lives. Thank You Jesus for your unspeakable gift!!

joaniemarie · Apr 12, 2017

Why do so many believers suffer needlessly??? Because they don't know the promises are for them to take hold of. Jesus bought and paid for our victory. We must learn to walk the victory out. We are more than conquerors because of Him who loved us.

First Adam lost control of the planet, but last Adam took back what the devil stole. In Christ you are destined to reign like a king (Rom 5:17). But you won’t reign if you heed the lies above and follow Job instead of Jesus.

joaniemarie · Apr 12, 2017

Stunnedbygrace said:

God often takes our messes and makes them His message but for sure He works things out (in spite) of us due to His amazing grace. But back in eternity past., when the Godhead decided to bring out the wonderful plan of salvation, He/They did not need the devil.

There were many times when things came upon the Hebrews but it was due to their own stupidity and God in His grace worked out His plans for them in spite of their sins and rejection of Him.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 12, 2017

joaniemarie said:

God often takes our messes and makes them His message but for sure He works things out (in spite) of us due to His amazing grace. But back in eternity past., when the Godhead decided to bring out the wonderful plan of salvation, He/They did not need the devil.

There were many times when things came upon the Hebrews but it was due to their own stupidity and God in His grace worked out His plans for them in spite of their sins and rejection of Him.

God used Satan to crucify Christ. He played Satan, and through that proved Satan to be the liar. He made a mockery of him

Stunnedbygrace · Apr 12, 2017

joaniemarie said:

I wasn't inferring that God needs the devil. I was saying that no plan against Gods' will can prosper and He works even the worst evil to good and works even what appears to be a stone into bread. This is how I can go on in trust even when things appear bleak and I'm down to my last 17.00. He knows what I have need of and will see to it. Not only is there absolutely no need for panic day after day and month after month, but that panic or worry is unbelief and mistrust in what He has said He will see to. He gives enough for the day and puts tests before me to see what I will do - continue in trust or worry. I'm learning every day to continue in trust and to choose the obedience of trust.

wsblind · Apr 12, 2017

joaniemarie said:

Nobody suffers needlessly. It just may appear that way to us.

I think we lie to ourselves if we can't see how suffering through something for a time actually helped us. God, at times, uses our suffering to grow us.

Paul wrote many of His epistles while he was suffering in prison. The Lord could of easily released Paul at any time. But the Lord allowed him to suffer, because suffering teaches us valuable lessons.

We are more than conquerors, because this life will bring suffering. And we know that ultimately our suffering will teach us something and if we handle our suffering correctly(from His mind) we will glorify Christ in that suffering........even if the suffering doesn't leave us until we die.

Depleted · Apr 12, 2017

joaniemarie said:

Why do so many believers suffer needlessly??? Because they don't know the promises are for them to take hold of. Jesus bought and paid for our victory. We must learn to walk the victory out. We are more than conquerors because of Him who loved us.

First Adam lost control of the planet, but last Adam took back what the devil stole. In Christ you are destined to reign like a king (Rom 5:17). But you won’t reign if you heed the lies above and follow Job instead of Jesus.

Another inept god who just can't hep himself 'less humans push the boulder for him.

BeyondET · Apr 12, 2017

[video=youtube;TTahaPMglAA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTahaPMglAA[/video]

My grace is sufficient...

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