My grace is sufficient...

[Stephen63]

Also., this topic was answered before about why we have better promises than Job or David or any of the saints that lived before the new covenant. Before Jesus came, satan had taken the world from Adam and Christ the God-Man had not yet taken it back for us. Read the following parts of posts written by Grace777 and trucker62;


The highest heavens belong to the Lord, but the earth he has given to mankind. (Psa 115:16)

…but in the Garden of Eden man handed control to Satan. So when the Lord says “all that is his is in your hand!” he is stating a painful fact that will ultimately cost Jesus his life.

To sum up, here are four lies that we get from misreading Job 1:

Lie #1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission. In the Garden of Eden we opened the door to sin and have been reaping the consequences ever since.

The good news is it doesn’t have to be this way. By the grace of God the devil flees when we resist him (James 4:7). Don’t be like Job and let the thief plunder your house. Be like David who encouraged himself in the Lord and fought back (1 Sam 30:6).

Lie #2: God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line

Woof! What nonsense. What fellowship does light have with darkness (2 Cor 6:14)?

Lie #3: God gives us sickness and suffering to teach us character

Satan’s aim was to trick God into harming Job, something that God would never do. Although Job thought God was responsible for his loss, God sent Elihu to set him straight. Elihu is a picture of Jesus who went around “healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him” (Acts 10:38). Jesus doesn’t give sickness; he takes it from us.

Lie #4: God “allows” sickness and suffering to afflict us

God does not work for the devil. If God gave the thief permission to rob you, he wouldn’t be a thief.

First Adam lost control of the planet, but last Adam took back what the devil stole. In Christ you are destined to reign like a king (Rom 5:17). But you won’t reign if you heed the lies above and follow Job instead of Jesus.

Grace and peace to you.

Unquote:

I like to use this website sometimes because it has a place at the bottom where we can ask questions and sometimes I learn from this area too for things to consider. Here is the link if anyone is interested in this subject. Enjoy.


https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/...g/#prettyPhoto[/QUOTE

EXCELLENT!!! I have never read that translation. I especially liked:

This site is a Hyp******e site. The owner says so.

Therefore the stuff he teaches is heresy.

 

[Stephen63]

Why do so many believers suffer needlessly??? Because they don't know the promises are for them to take hold of. Jesus bought and paid for our victory. We must learn to walk the victory out. We are more than conquerors because of Him who loved us.

First Adam lost control of the planet, but last Adam took back what the devil stole. In Christ you are destined to reign like a king (Rom 5:17). But you won’t reign if you heed the lies above and follow Job instead of Jesus.

Nowhere in Romans 5:17 does it say we reign like kings..... That's rather stretching it, don'tcha think?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Nobody suffers needlessly. It just may appear that way to us.

I think we lie to ourselves if we can't see how suffering through something for a time actually helped us. God, at times, uses our suffering to grow us.

Paul wrote many of His epistles while he was suffering in prison. The Lord could of easily released Paul at any time. But the Lord allowed him to suffer, because suffering teaches us valuable lessons.

We are more than conquerors, because this life will bring suffering. And we know that ultimately our suffering will teach us something and if we handle our suffering correctly(from His mind) we will glorify Christ in that suffering........even if the suffering doesn't leave us until we die.

Amen! Even our Lord learned obedience through the things He suffered -the obedience of trust in God. And now He asks the same of us - there is one think He wants from us, that we believe in Him and the One He sent. It's useless and hypocritical of me to say I do believe when I simultaneously complain and worry about what He has brought to my life! Sometimes it seems like I will make it about everything EXCEPT the obedience of trust!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

This site is a Hyp******e site. The owner says so.

Therefore the stuff he teaches is heresy.

This brings me to make a prophetic prediction that you will be banned. And not only that, but it isn't true. They posted a thread that specifically deals with this and if you read it carefully, you have not spoken truly.

 

[Magenta]

Amen! Even our Lord learned obedience through the things He suffered -the obedience of trust in God. And now He asks the same of us - there is one think He wants from us, that we believe in Him and the One He sent. It's useless and hypocritical of me to say I do believe when I simultaneously complain and worry about what He has brought to my life! Sometimes it seems like I will make it about everything EXCEPT the obedience of trust!

Our trials and tribulations have a way of showing us how much we don't rely on Him and how much we think we can fix everything to our liking... it is good you are aware of this! Our burdens become lighter over time as we learn to trust Him more and more, seeing the futility of our own wasted efforts and emotional upheavals

 

[joaniemarie]

This site is a Hyp******e site. The owner says so.

Therefore the stuff he teaches is heresy.

Stephen!! You must have forgotten you put me on "ignore" One of the few things you have stated here that I can agree with!!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Our trials and tribulations have a way of showing us how much we don't rely on Him and how much we think we can fix everything to our liking... it is good you are aware of this! Our burdens become lighter over time as we learn to trust Him more and more, seeing the futility of our own wasted efforts and emotional upheavals

I wish I could "like" this 20 times but it only let me do it once. The burdens become lighter because we shouldn't have carried them in the first place. We should have just trusted Him no matter what things looked like.

 

[joaniemarie]

Nobody suffers needlessly. It just may appear that way to us.

I think we lie to ourselves if we can't see how suffering through something for a time actually helped us. God, at times, uses our suffering to grow us.

Paul wrote many of His epistles while he was suffering in prison. The Lord could of easily released Paul at any time. But the Lord allowed him to suffer, because suffering teaches us valuable lessons.

We are more than conquerors, because this life will bring suffering. And we know that ultimately our suffering will teach us something and if we handle our suffering correctly(from His mind) we will glorify Christ in that suffering........even if the suffering doesn't leave us until we die.

Well,, I must agree to disagree with many of you posters here on this thread. We have been given many opportunities all through our Christian lives to obey THE WORD in many different circumstances we have been.

And most often due to either a lack of believing the Bible and that it could possibly mean what it says, or that we were never taught that interpretation., we Christians (and we all have done this at some point or another in our lives) we Christians have decided to do it our way -instead- because we didn't think God really said that or that God didn't mean that. And so., forward on we ... march... thinking God is 100% in agreement. When He told us in and through His Word do not go that way.

We later find our after suffering the consequences of our unbelief and or ignorance or lack of teaching, we should have listened to that still small voice of the Holy Spirit (Who is here to teach us through the Bible and lead us into truth) ., and we could have avoided the whole big mess. But since God loves us in Christ., and since He has poured out grace that we don't deserve., He got us out (in spite) of our foolishness.

How much better would it be for us Christians to know the truth of the WORD and walk in it even today and avoid the holes we were warned about in the Bible?? As far as I'm concerned, I want to know the truth in God's Word and be set free of the un necessary suffering I will go through should I not learn the truth.

I want to walk by faith and not by my sight because the promises are already mine bought and paid for by Jesus but I must proceed in the obedience of faith. It is not our Good Shepherd who leads us away from the green pastures. The Bible clearly says the Good Shepherd leads us (to) all we need. But I can take many detours that were not His will for me.


[SUP]1 [/SUP]The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, guide, and shield me], I shall not lack.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]He makes me lie down in [fresh, tender] green pastures; He leads me beside the still and restful waters.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]He refreshes and restores my life (my self); He leads me in the paths of righteousness [uprightness and right standing with Him—not for my earning it, but] for His name’s sake.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]Yes, though I walk through the [deep, sunless] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me; Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort me.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with [SUP][a][/SUP]oil; my [brimming] cup runs over.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Surely or only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.

 

[truthhurts]

God isn't stupid! He absolutely knew I'd crumble. He's the one that saved me. "Faith that you will not crumble?" ROFL

There is more to the walk than being a pew warmer...anyone not moving the kingdom with God is not advancing the Kingdom with God...

It may sounds if I am suggesting human strength, etc...I am sorry if I did that is not what I am trying to say....I guess I expect everyone I speak to understands that apart from him we can do nothing and it is his power, his strength, his might in us and at work in us that allows us not to crumble...

It is his work in us that refines us for our next season....This is proven by Jesus tempting in the wilderness...he entered the wilderness full of the Spirit and he exited the wilderness in the power of the Spirit.....

I also found it very interesting that when Jesus had something to impart into his disciples he took them to the wilderness to impart it....

Many on this thread just want ALL the benefits from God, but don't seem to really want to work with God...they view God has a sugar daddy and stay comfy with God and live off the benefits of him.....they will one day give their stars to him....

Jesus did not give Father his stars, he gave him his scars.....because he overcame....and he overcame because of the power of the Spirit, but in all ways was tempted as we were and without SIN....

The people here that sashay on about God does not test people and its all the devil is foolish deception....they would not know the difference because they have not surrendered to something God desires to remove, so that he may be glorified through the test...

The church today especially Christians TV is full of Benefit minded believers and it this majority that have no clue what persecution really will be and will fail outright as the parable of the sower says, because when it hits they have no root system....

They seem to give off the air that I have everything, I am in need of nothing, and I am rich....

Rev 3.17 says:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,

The church of Laodicea is right in front of us and nothing is said about it....

 

[wsblind]

Well,, I must agree to disagree with many of you posters here on this thread. We have been given many opportunities all through our Christian lives to obey THE WORD in many different circumstances we have been.

And most often due to either a lack of believing the Bible and that it could possibly mean what it says, or that we were never taught that interpretation., we Christians (and we all have done this at some point or another in our lives) we Christians have decided to do it our way -instead- because we didn't think God really said that or that God didn't mean that. And so., forward on we ... march... thinking God is 100% in agreement. When He told us in and through His Word do not go that way.

We later find our after suffering the consequences of our unbelief and or ignorance or lack of teaching, we should have listened to that still small voice of the Holy Spirit (Who is here to teach us through the Bible and lead us into truth) ., and we could have avoided the whole big mess. But since God loves us in Christ., and since He has poured out grace that we don't deserve., He got us out (in spite) of our foolishness.

How much better would it be for us Christians to know the truth of the WORD and walk in it even today and avoid the holes we were warned about in the Bible?? As far as I'm concerned, I want to know the truth in God's Word and be set free of the un necessary suffering I will go through should I not learn the truth.

I want to walk by faith and not by my sight because the promises are already mine bought and paid for by Jesus but I must proceed in the obedience of faith. It is not our Good Shepherd who leads us away from the green pastures. The Bible clearly says the Good Shepherd leads us (to) all we need. But I can take many detours that were not His will for me.


[SUP]1 [/SUP]The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, guide, and shield me], I shall not lack.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]He makes me lie down in [fresh, tender] green pastures; He leads me beside the still and restful waters.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]He refreshes and restores my life (my self); He leads me in the paths of righteousness [uprightness and right standing with Him—not for my earning it, but] for His name’s sake.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]Yes, though I walk through the [deep, sunless] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me; Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort me.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with [SUP][a][/SUP]oil; my [brimming] cup runs over.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Surely or only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.

I guess I am not following you? You don't grieve or suffer if a loved ones dies? Stubbing your toe doesn't hurt? When you make a bad choice there are no consequences?

 

[joaniemarie]

I also must add to my last post as a few of us have posted already., we will suffer persecution from the -flesh, the -world and the -devil. Those persecutions and tribulations are real. But they do NOT come from God. Jesus has won the victory for us. God is not in a civil war with Himself.

The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty through the pulling down of strong holds. 2 Cor.10:4 He told us how to proceed in this battle. Know how to use the weapons from reading the Bible and not fighting in the flesh. But by the Spirit.

 

[joaniemarie]

I guess I am not following you? You don't grieve or suffer if a loved ones dies? Stubbing your toe doesn't hurt? When you make a bad choice there are no consequences?

Again., we do suffer persecution and tribulations in this world due to The world
......................................................................................................................................The flesh

and the........................................................................................................................The devil

But we do not get persecuted by our Father God.

 

[truthhurts]

Again., we do suffer persecution and tribulations in this world due to The world
......................................................................................................................................The flesh

and the........................................................................................................................The devil

But we do not get persecuted by our Father God.

Nobody is saying Father persecutes us, but some of us are syaing that Father allows the persecution from the devil to build our trust and reliance on him....

You seem to disagree with even this.....and that everything is from the devil, flesh or the world....this contradicts your theology....Jesus said you were not of this world, so if that is true how can the world persecute you?

 

[joaniemarie]

This is to the beautiful saints who do suffer and are suffering persecution and tribulations in this world. When I type these things they are the promises of what we can have when we believe. But it takes time for us humans to work OUT what Christ has already worked IN us. Of this there is no doubt.

But I cannot nor should I fail to post the truth of the way He tells us to to go in this area of His grace being sufficient today in the here and now for us. And how His grace IS made perfect in our weaknesses. For sure it's about the grace of God. It's always by grace through faith.... always.

As we go through and work out those things Christ has worked in us., we learn. And how each of us learns and where we each are in our learning is another matter only God and we know personally.

And yet even in that.., God's Word has a truth for us to learn and to live out now. I believe for instance... walking in wisdom is have-able but certainly I have not attained to it but it's there for me. I've been wise in some areas but have not attained the consistency that makes for the best life I could have . Not by a long shot. And so the (grace) of God in Christ is holding me up every second while I press on in Christ.

I think of that verse that says "not that I have already attained" But I go forward.... Philippians 3:12-14

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Not that I have now attained [this ideal], or have already been made perfect, but I press on to lay hold of (grasp) and make my own, that for which Christ Jesus (the Messiah) has laid hold of me and made me His own.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]I do not consider, brethren, that I have captured and made it my own [yet]; but one thing I do [it is my one aspiration]: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]I press on toward the goal to win the [supreme and heavenly] prize to which God in Christ Jesus is calling us upward.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I also must add to my last post as a few of us have posted already., we will suffer persecution from the -flesh, the -world and the -devil. Those persecutions and tribulations are real. But they do NOT come from God. Jesus has won the victory for us. God is not in a civil war with Himself.

The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty through the pulling down of strong holds. 2 Cor.10:4 He told us how to proceed in this battle. Know how to use the weapons from reading the Bible and not fighting in the flesh. But by the Spirit.

I think it depends on how you look at it. Some think Jobs' trials were from God, by the hand of satan, because satan could not have touched Job UNLESS God gave him the permission to do so. This also ties into: Peter, satan has asked permission to sift you like wheat. After you return...
so you see that God has to give permission, and He only does so to bless us in the end, because we know Him and His mind more and we have been purified more and made more like our Lord.

 

[truthhurts]

I think it depends on how you look at it. Some think Jobs' trials were from God, by the hand of satan, because satan could not have touched Job UNLESS God gave him the permission to do so. This also ties into: Peter, satan has asked permission to sift you like wheat. After you return...
so you see that God has to give permission, and He only does so to bless us in the end, because we know Him and His mind more and we have been purified more and made more like our Lord.

This is a very spiritually mature truth...once you get past the cotton candy and skim milk theology of today's hirelings on TV and in the mega churches people see it...

I also made the point that if Job's situation were an outright attack of the Devils own doing, then why did Father put in conditions...

 

[Stephen63]

This brings me to make a prophetic prediction that you will be banned.

Haahaahaahaahaa! (wiping tears!) Talk about yer false prophets!! LOL!!

And not only that, but it isn't true. They posted a thread that specifically deals with this and if you read it carefully, you have not spoken truly.

Well, here's a little something to prove your brazen statement wrong:

https://escapetoreality.org/2016/09/13/is-hypergrace-biblical/

The Hyper-Grace Gospel

• 
  
  Myth 9: The Hyper-Grace Gospel Encourages Sin
  26 Comments
  
• 
  
  Who are the Hypergrace Preachers?
  82 Comments
  
• 
  
  Is Hypergrace Biblical?
  83 Comments
  
• 
  
  8 Signs that a Church Doesn’t Get Grace
  84 Comments
  
• 
  
  Is Grace a License to Be Lazy?
  25 Comments
• 
  
  
• What Happens to Christians Who Commit Suicide?
• 157 Comments
  

 

[Stephen63]

Stephen!! You must have forgotten you put me on "ignore" One of the few things you have stated here that I can agree with!!

I actually took you back off of ignore so I could post on your Joseph Prince Bible devotions. I thought it was unfair to post there & have you on ignore at the same time.

Besides, if I didn't post on them, you wouldn't have any posts at all.
Now I have another reason to keep you off ignore. I couldn't have us agreeing on anything, could I?

 

[Grace777x70]

Revelation 5:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Jesus is the King of kings!

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

929. [FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]βασιλεύω[/FONT] [FONT="Gentium" !important]basileuō[/FONT] verb

Reign, rule, be king, to have authority.

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Alpha-Gamma.

Here is the exact same Greek word being used by Paul - it is translated as "kings". Go figure..... We find good treasures in the word of God when we search for them.


1 Timothy 6:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,

1 Corinthians 4:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] You are already filled, you have already become rich, you have become kings without us; and indeed, I wish that you had become kings so that we also might reign with you.

 

[trucker62]

Wow, the back and forth that is going on amazes me. I think people are confused about suffering, infirmities, persecution and trials. First and foremost no matter what you have been taught, these are not from God, he is not the author of evil or bad. There are two systems operating in this world, Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Darkness. The two Kingdoms collide on a constant basis

If you think God is using the kingdom of darkness to teach you, you are missing the whole point of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Yes, we suffer in this life, but the suffering is never at the hands of God.

I have said this over and over, read Mark 4: 13-20 Jesus specifically states if you do not understand this parable, you will not understand the Kingdom of Heaven and how it operates. In this world, when you take a stand on God's word, Satan comes immediately to steal the Word sown in your heart through persecution and afflictions..I am not denying we face suffering, persecution, and trials in life, I am denying it is God doing this to test you or see where you are at in the Kingdom.

When you take a stand for God, resistance comes. Try telling people today that God has said marriage is between a man and a women, try saying There is only one way to God, its through Jesus, try saying God heals, God is good, America was founded on Christian principles, abortion its wrong, sex outside of marriage is wrong. I promise you will suffer persecution, not only from the World, but also from people you sit in church with everyday. All the disciples, Apostles, Jesus himself suffered for the sake of the Word, but it was not sent from God. There is one exception. God made Jesus the scapegoat for all these things, he made him suffer for mankind one time for all people redeeming us from the curse of the Law. You do realize where ever you read a curse in the law, Jesus bore the punishment for that curse so you did not have to. He does not expect you to do what Jesus did on the cross that is why he used Jesus. Does anyone remember that God knows the end from the beginning? He already knows what you are going to do.

Satan and his Kingdom are who resist you on a daily basis. If you get sick, its not from God, if you get in a car accident, its not from God, if you lose a spouse or young child to sickness, disease, accident or anything that contradicts with Long life I will satisfy you and show you my salvation its not God.

I keep reading well God allows it. Well God allows rape, murder, sickness, disease, war and the list goes on and on. The key is God allows many things, but he is not the author of these things, men are. That is why Jesus said I give YOU the keys to the kingdom, whatsoever YOU bind on earth must be what is bound in heaven, whatsoever things you LOOSE on earth will be loosed in Heaven.

Men refuse to put Gods way of doing things in practice. Do you actually think if we truly loved one another there would be wars on this earth? Of course there would not be, but guess what? There are men out there on a daily basis who are purposely defying God and doing what the selfish dictates of their heart are prompting them to do and it affects us! Just look at ISIS!

We can miss God and cause undo suffering in our lives, but again, its was not by God's design. We can run to God in any situation but it will take time to walk through any situation as we apply the word of God. Peter tells us that God has given us all things that pertains to LIFE AND GODLINESS through the knowledge of him. In other things, you better know your covenant, what Jesus did for you, who you are in Christ and how to apply that covenant to your life. All of us are at different stages in our walk with God so it will vary with each individual.

We can complicate our lives by doing stupid things, like going out side and playing in the snow in shorts then getting sick. Who did this to you? God or your own foolishness?

In the 1980's I had a young son pass away and he is with God in heaven right now and to my relief I will see him again. Did it hurt at the time, yes, did God allow it, Nope the disease that killed him took him. Back then I did not know how to stand against sickness or disease and the devil stole my son from me. However, I am blessed to tell you I have two other great kids, but never once did I even say well God allowed this, ordained this or orchestrated this. Our Father in Heaven is not a thief, especially when we read that death is an enemy.

I think the biggest problem is we do not understand the two kingdoms we walk in on a daily basis.

I will tell you a quick story the i personally experienced as as Associate Pastor. I visited the sick on a regular basis. A couple who went to our church were traveling on Highway 169 going north at the end of their work day. A drunk driver traveling south, lost control of his vehicle, crossed the median, and landed on top of their car destroying it and putting them in the hospital for almost one year. Both of them had dozens of bones broken in their bodies, died numerous times on the operating table, but in the long run they walked out of the hospital, but both are severely crippled but can still drive. Here is the kicker and we butted heads over this and they ended up leaving the church.

They both started a ministry and went around our state telling everyone about how good God was to send a drunk to destroy their car and lives so they could minister the gospel to people. In the middle of their testimony at our church I shut them down and I very calmly said, the goodness of this accident is God preserved your life, but he did not send this on you to be a witness for him. God would have been very content if you had been witnessing for him prior to the accident and he darn sure did not send a drunk to get you to minister for him. Satan tried to take you out is what actually happened. However, they continued to spread their poison that God was the one who did this to them and it infected and discouraged many people who were trying to believe God for healing. It caused them to doubt God, his goodness and worse, they did not stand for healing because they thought they were resisting the will of God. This type of testimony is poison to the body of Christ and the world. It literally says, come serve my God, he will cripple you, destroy your life, use a drunk to teach you life lessons. Isn't he such a loving Father?

I also say this and its an old saying, if God is the one making you sick, why are you resisting God and taking medicine? Just think about it. Yes we suffer failings in our walk, there are some things I have missed thinking I was believing correctly, and did not see the results I was believing for or better said, I thought I was believing for, but never once have I said, God did this to me, he used darkness to teach a child of light.

Just think about it.