Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#5,541
Feb 15, 2017
8,907
4,349
113
#5,541
truthhurts said:
The 10 are part of the original 613....the 10 are fulfilled in the Law of Christ which says simply:
Love God
Love others
Love yourself

Romans 13.8-10 shows us this clearly
Click to expand...
Yes I agree with love God and others.

The two commandments Jesus gave sum up the 10 commandments.

Love God being 1-4
Love others being 5-10

But to me the 10 are not part of the original 613.The 10 were given then the 613 followed.

The following was not given in the 10 but part of the 613


Leviticus 11:9-12


“These you may eat of all that are in the water: whatever in the water has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers—that you may eat. But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you. They shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination. Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales—that shall be an abomination to you.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#5,542
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#5,542
ForthAngel said:
Wrong. The deficiency in the understanding of who God is as he has revealed himself is at the core of most false gospels and false teachings.
Click to expand...
People love definitative statements. Wrong.

You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body.
Eph 4:22-25

Most people here on cc are the result of their theology mixed with experiences.
Some though with very similar theology are prepared to totally condemn other
believers and cast them out as leading people to hell.

Unless people repent from their heart, and give up the old life, all belief is
pointless. I saw years ago what Jesus is holding up is the perfect life, a pure
holy life, but no dream.

For many are invited, but few are chosen
Matt 22:14

Many use the word unworthy, but do they know what this means? Or brokenness, or
debt and gratitude to our Lord? These realities come from the conviction of sin, and knowing
how far we are from His ways. Some think this is just regret, not an emptying, a wailing
and weeping, a sense of total loss and destitution. This is our state, our fate, the poison we
dwell in and foster as if it has value. Many are so scared of seeing this they never go here,
but this means they take without knowing what they have or what He has given us.
So for me it is no wonder the words that are spoken because they are spoken in ignorance
of their own realities within.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#5,543
#5,543
BillG said:
Whilst I see what you are saying to me the law we seem to be discussing is the law of God given to Israel before they entered Canaan .

This law, the 10 commandments were given in order that the people know not to follow the ways of the people in the land that God was about to give them.

God is saying this is how they live, this is how they should not live.

Now live like I ask you to then all will be well.

Side note, that generation that God delivered from Egypt did inherit this land, reason being they lacked faith that God would follow through his promise. They grumbled and wanted to go backwards and forwards.

So to me not all who lived at the time were under the 10 commandments and would not be judged on that.

Those under the law will be judged by it but those who did not or do not know the law will be judged by the law written in their hearts, their conscience.

Romans 2:12-16


For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
Click to expand...
I love that verse.

To an extent I agree with you.

However, I would assert that the ten commandments are expanded upon by Jesus in his sermons to be more than external but also internal laws.

Laws written upon people's heart and summarized by Jesus into just two commandments: Love God and love your neighbor.

I believe these two laws are written upon all the hearts of mankind upon birth, but many deny its truth and God's conviction.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#5,546
#5,546
truthhurts said:
Never said they were did I?

An unbeliever is under the law of sin and death, but that is not the mosaic law...

If we are going to sling Romans 8.1-2 around lets also add ROmans 8.3-4

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Click to expand...
The Mosaic law is called the law of sin and death. I quoted the verses earlier in the thread that states it.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#5,547
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#5,547
To know another.

We are born as children with a nature, a character we do not chose it is just given.
As we grow we express this character in different ways.

As a parent I learnt the differences between the two.
How long does it take for us to learn our own characters and that of the Lord.
Nothing is overnight, or simple. To know the Fathers will is to know the Father.

But how interested in this are we often really? Is it not often lip service to loving
God with all we are, because it is written rather than it is our passion?

I am beginning to see so much more than I perceived as a young man.
And we talk about owing eternity to our Lord. But what do you give daily, in thought
word and deed? How quickly do you leave His name and thoughts?

I know too easily I pass on to other things, and then regret. I know blessing in His
presence, to feel Him with me, yet I can also loose this passion, and focus elsewhere.
How can I expect Him to respond to my calling when I am so inconsistent?
Is it any wonder we all suffer so many issues in our spiritual lives as we often are so
poor in our dealings with such a Lord, who is so gracious and so patient.
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#5,548
Feb 15, 2017
8,907
4,349
113
#5,548
Ariel82 said:
I love that verse.

To an extent I agree with you.

However, I would assert that the ten commandments are expanded upon by Jesus in his sermons to be more than external but also internal laws.

Laws written upon people's heart and summarized by Jesus into just two commandments: Love God and love your neighbor.

I believe these two laws are written upon all the hearts of mankind upon birth, but many deny its truth and God's conviction.
Click to expand...
i can't disagree with that.

What I disagree with is what you said about Hagar and her offspring being under the law, that law being the law given to Moses.
The law written on tablets. Ishmael would not have been part of this.

If you look at the 2 commandments Jesus talked about, whom was he talking to? Those who had been given the law. Those who asked him were trying to trick him.
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

Banned
#5,549
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
#5,549
dcontroversal said:
They can't.....either you are in Christ or your condemned under he law....end of story!

And my point stands....the lost are judged....John was clear

THE BOOKS are opened and the BOOK of life....if you are not found in the book of life you are judged by the law and found guilty....end of story
Click to expand...
your logic is dwarfed coz what is the point in judgment if the out come has allready been forseen with sentence ?....


judgment is for all..
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#5,550
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#5,550
Ariel82 said:
I disagree. Keeping the faith is only capable through the power of God.
Click to expand...
I do not know how one can ever separate this intimacy or spiritual dance with
the lover of our souls. In a marriage, we both give and receive, listen and speak.
One becomes one, both together, were you know it works but not quite why.
Is our walk with Jesus any different? Our lives reflect our creator and His nature
and way of being within Himself. So we are both partakers and givers and receivers.
So I find myself agreeing with both.
 
T

truthhurts

Banned
#5,552
Apr 4, 2017
290
9
0
#5,552
Ariel82 said:
The Mosaic law is called the law of sin and death. I quoted the verses earlier in the thread that states it.
Click to expand...
If you state this then you are telling gentiles they are under the Mosaic Law...gentiles were never, ever under the Mosaic law....

The Law of Sin and death is not the Mosaic Law made under the Mosaic Covenant made between Moses and God and was fulfilled entirely when Christ rose from the dead and sat at the right hand of the Father...

The Mosaic Law was given to the Jews only and includes the Levitical laws, etc........the Law of sin and death is part of the new covenant, given to the Jews and Gentiles....
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

Banned
#5,556
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
#5,556
hmm ok well even if the power of God helps you to keep your faith... how come the power of God isnt healing the world ?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#5,558
#5,558
JIMBO43 said:
hmm ok well even if the power of God helps you to keep your faith... how come the power of God isnt healing the world ?
Click to expand...
It is, we just don't see or understand totally HOW God does it.
 
T

truthhurts

Banned
#5,560
Apr 4, 2017
290
9
0
#5,560
Ariel82 said:
I disagree. Keeping the faith is only capable through the power of God.
Click to expand...
this is rubbish and more of the same propaganda DCONN pushes...Romans 10.17 clearly says faith comes from hearing and hearing the word of God...

Faith does not come from God or Jesus, the Bible says he gave each man a measure of faith and this includes saving faith....

If faith comes from God and given to you as a gift then that would mean everyone is going to heaven and that clearly is not true...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.