Why does God hate Esau?
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Oh ok, I thought you were just doing a trivia type thing. Also Hebrews gives us some information on Esau. He was immoral and godless.
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled; that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.Hebrews 12:14-17
Oh ok, I thought you were just doing a trivia type thing. Also Hebrews gives us some information on Esau. He was immoral and godless.
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled; that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.Hebrews 12:14-17
Think about what you posted on the other thread about the first man born of the Spirit. While I disagree with your answer there....you are seeing something very close to what I see.
I have to get to bed...long day tomorrow. Will check tomorrow.
D
I figure God loved Jacob out of God's choice. Everyone he doesn't love is automatically hated for their sins.
Looking at their lives, got to say, I would have liked Esau and despised the sneaky, wimpy, conniving Momma's Boy named Jacob.
Then again, God chooses the weak, no-good, lessers all the time. He takes the foolish and makes the world go nuts trying to figure out how the foolish got so wise so fast. lol
Looking at their lives, got to say, I would have liked Esau and despised the sneaky, wimpy, conniving Momma's Boy named Jacob.
Then again, God chooses the weak, no-good, lessers all the time. He takes the foolish and makes the world go nuts trying to figure out how the foolish got so wise so fast. lol
D
Romans 9 out and out says, "Jacob I lived. Esau I hated." Can't blame that on Esau's kids. On the other hand, you don't ever want God to hate you, because he does take it down generationally. Ultimately, he wiped out the Edomites.
Archaeologists found Edom. It was impenetrable, and yet they cannot figure out how it simply disappeared. No evidence why it stopped being a city.
Archaeologists found Edom. It was impenetrable, and yet they cannot figure out how it simply disappeared. No evidence why it stopped being a city.
D
My parents, grandparents, etc., found birthrights to be immensely important. We (my siblings and cousins) were all raised prepared that the oldest son (no oldest daughters, although I've often wonder if my now it was a daughter, if it could go to her), would receive the birthright/mantle of our family. It means something.
The oldest would be responsible for any family businesses (and half my family had family businesses), along with the responsibility to deal with family disputes and wealth. Disputes was a lifelong commitment whether you wanted that job or not. If siblings made an agreement and it fell apart, the son with the birthright was the arbitrator. Everyone would go to him to tell them what to do, even if he said he was having none of that. They/we just needle him until he gave in. lol
And the family wealth ended up being the oldest's problems because he got stuck with the executor duties. My poor brother got that in spades. He's 63, and Dad is still alive with Alzheimer! Worse yet, Dad lived alone, wouldn't let us move in with him, and, in our state, no one can be institutionalized without the person's permission. Alzheimer! He's 40 cards short of a full deck, and the only thing he can remember he does want is to stay in his house. Brother got to fight that one in court, knowing Dad was never going to say "Sure, lock me up." (God gave that story a miraculous ending. The judge was able to get Dad to do just that for times in the course of six hours.)
So, this generation of kids four oldest who got stuck with the birthright mantle. Two took on that responsibility. Two refused. And out of the two that refused, the younger children took on what the oldest should have done, while the other family all said Naaah!
I am so very glad I didn't get stuck with that. I don't blame anyone for refusing it. Very hard going from "he's just my oldest brother" to "he's the head of our family."
I really don't think God refuses mercy for just not taking on that responsibility. Esau wasn't refusing God. He was hungry! He was giving up the responsibility of taking care of his mom and brother, taking care of all the workers and their family, taking care of all the sheep and goats, and all because he was a hunter, not a farmer. And, at the end, he did go to his father to get that birthright, but Jacob had already stolen it from him.
The oldest would be responsible for any family businesses (and half my family had family businesses), along with the responsibility to deal with family disputes and wealth. Disputes was a lifelong commitment whether you wanted that job or not. If siblings made an agreement and it fell apart, the son with the birthright was the arbitrator. Everyone would go to him to tell them what to do, even if he said he was having none of that. They/we just needle him until he gave in. lol
And the family wealth ended up being the oldest's problems because he got stuck with the executor duties. My poor brother got that in spades. He's 63, and Dad is still alive with Alzheimer! Worse yet, Dad lived alone, wouldn't let us move in with him, and, in our state, no one can be institutionalized without the person's permission. Alzheimer! He's 40 cards short of a full deck, and the only thing he can remember he does want is to stay in his house. Brother got to fight that one in court, knowing Dad was never going to say "Sure, lock me up." (God gave that story a miraculous ending. The judge was able to get Dad to do just that for times in the course of six hours.)
So, this generation of kids four oldest who got stuck with the birthright mantle. Two took on that responsibility. Two refused. And out of the two that refused, the younger children took on what the oldest should have done, while the other family all said Naaah!
I am so very glad I didn't get stuck with that. I don't blame anyone for refusing it. Very hard going from "he's just my oldest brother" to "he's the head of our family."
I really don't think God refuses mercy for just not taking on that responsibility. Esau wasn't refusing God. He was hungry! He was giving up the responsibility of taking care of his mom and brother, taking care of all the workers and their family, taking care of all the sheep and goats, and all because he was a hunter, not a farmer. And, at the end, he did go to his father to get that birthright, but Jacob had already stolen it from him.
It's the result of the great hippie god in the sky, you know that man up stairs. The meaning of love has been perverted to the idea that if you love me you will let me do whatever I want, because you love me, the hippie love of the '60's. You know God's just tossing flowers around heaven in love with everyone. He has no special love for His children He just likes them more then sinners.
His electing grace in foreknowledge, is nothing more then an acknowledge of someones act of faith. When the Bible clearly teaches that it's not by any thing done good or bad, because we are not born yet. It'a all by His purpose and counsel of His will, our will has nothing to do with it. Why can't we just submit to Scripture?
His electing grace in foreknowledge, is nothing more then an acknowledge of someones act of faith. When the Bible clearly teaches that it's not by any thing done good or bad, because we are not born yet. It'a all by His purpose and counsel of His will, our will has nothing to do with it. Why can't we just submit to Scripture?
Guess I better explain, I might not be around for a few days....The word used means to FAVOR LESS not Hate.
[FONT="]The word [/FONT]hated didn’t have the same meaning to the biblical writer as it does to us. To the biblical writer, you “hated” someone when you chose another person for a position of more favor or honor. For example, in Genesis 29:31, we are told that God saw that Leah was hated by Jacob, so He opened her womb. Yet we have every indication that Jacob was fond of Leah. He loved Rachel more, but he treated Leah with kindness. (Before Jacob died he asked to be buried with Leah.) Luke 14:26 gives another example of the biblical use of the term hated. Jesus said that we should “hate” our parents for His sake. He certainly wasn’t telling us to dislike them or to wish them evil. He only asked that we regard them as less important than Him, which is completely reasonable given who He is.
It isn't HATE as we understand hate to be today, its means God loved Jacob MORE or CHOSE him over Esau. It doesn't mean he HATED ESAU....He loved Esau less or FAVORED Jacob more.
[FONT="]The word [/FONT]hated didn’t have the same meaning to the biblical writer as it does to us. To the biblical writer, you “hated” someone when you chose another person for a position of more favor or honor. For example, in Genesis 29:31, we are told that God saw that Leah was hated by Jacob, so He opened her womb. Yet we have every indication that Jacob was fond of Leah. He loved Rachel more, but he treated Leah with kindness. (Before Jacob died he asked to be buried with Leah.) Luke 14:26 gives another example of the biblical use of the term hated. Jesus said that we should “hate” our parents for His sake. He certainly wasn’t telling us to dislike them or to wish them evil. He only asked that we regard them as less important than Him, which is completely reasonable given who He is.
It isn't HATE as we understand hate to be today, its means God loved Jacob MORE or CHOSE him over Esau. It doesn't mean he HATED ESAU....He loved Esau less or FAVORED Jacob more.
D
Because Jacob decided to humble himself, clean up his act, make his heart pure because he knew God looks on the heart, and because he decided he would choose God since he knew God would look down through time and see that he was gonna do all these neato things and then he knew due to this that God would then go ahead and select him for heaven because He knew the secret behind Romans 9 that God really chooses based upon the good little things others do and that Romans 9 is just a little trick to throw people off.
Yes, I have more run-on sentences to offer.
Yes, I have more run-on sentences to offer.
EXODUS 20:5 [FONT="]5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments. HE LOVES THOSE WHO LOVE HIM AND HATES THOSE WHO -------HIM, SIMPLE IT IS HIS [/FONT][FONT="]NATURE[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]