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The more the talk the more you are contradicting your own beliefs.
You state out of one side of your mouth the elect are chosen by God alone and that only the elect will make heaven and those not chosen to be elect will burn and fry, because they are dead in sin. You also state that the elect have no knowledge they are the elect, because no one really knows if they are elect/saved.
You now state out of the other side of your mouth you also now state that which is it now?
You state out of one side of your mouth the elect are chosen by God alone and that only the elect will make heaven and those not chosen to be elect will burn and fry, because they are dead in sin. You also state that the elect have no knowledge they are the elect, because no one really knows if they are elect/saved.
You now state out of the other side of your mouth you also now state that which is it now?
No contradiction. The elect are chosen by God, have been since before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4), and the means by which they are reconciled with God is the Gospel. How is this so difficult to understand? Therefore, we get the command "Go and preach the Gospel to all creatures". The elect are made capable of receiving the Gospel by God's gifting of faith (Eph. 2:8-9), while the carnal man is incapable of understanding it because it is foolishness to him.
I never said no one knows when they are saved either. Every Christian knows they are saved because of the change of nature that occurs.
I never said no one knows when they are saved either. Every Christian knows they are saved because of the change of nature that occurs.
I cannot discuss this meat with you since you get choked up on powdered baby milk.
Fruit is for character. This tiny piece of ground beef will cause you discomfort, so I would suggest not trying to talk about it.
True sons of God, have no esoteric knowledge, they have the Spirit of God living in them and leading them, guiding them, showing them, teaching them of things to come. This is not limited to some, but available to all and is one of the great and exceedingly precious promises we receive as a partaker of the divine nature as a Son/Daughter of God.
You cannot see this and will not until the current scales come of your eyes and the veil is removed from your heart by the Lord.
Fruit is for character. This tiny piece of ground beef will cause you discomfort, so I would suggest not trying to talk about it.
True sons of God, have no esoteric knowledge, they have the Spirit of God living in them and leading them, guiding them, showing them, teaching them of things to come. This is not limited to some, but available to all and is one of the great and exceedingly precious promises we receive as a partaker of the divine nature as a Son/Daughter of God.
You cannot see this and will not until the current scales come of your eyes and the veil is removed from your heart by the Lord.
Don't Trump haters say he "appears" to help poor people and gives away millions, strictly for his own benefit? Of course they do. Yet, no matter what you think of the man, money given to the poor is an outward sign. It looks like good fruit. And it may be, despite the fact some want to assign an ulterior motive to it.
So, I would say, just from that example, that we cannot judge, one way or another, by what we see.
Or DON'T see.......... Because I am probably one of VERY few people on the face of the Earth who knows the good a certain crusty old man in our congregation does for the homeless. Most people just see a bitter-looking old hermit. They judge him because they do not see the fruit they have decided he has to show them in order to be a righteous person.
So, I would say, just from that example, that we cannot judge, one way or another, by what we see.
Or DON'T see.......... Because I am probably one of VERY few people on the face of the Earth who knows the good a certain crusty old man in our congregation does for the homeless. Most people just see a bitter-looking old hermit. They judge him because they do not see the fruit they have decided he has to show them in order to be a righteous person.
God foreknowing the choices we would make with our freewill, does not mean we do not have freewill. Therefore, God can say, even before someone is born, that He hates them, just as He can say that after they've lived a full life and died. Foreknowing does not take away someone's freewill. For example...
I am in the other room, and hear the cookie jar rattle. I know that when I go in the kitchen that I will find my daughter eating a cookie. Does that mean I forced her to? Of course not. Or again, let's say I'm at the train station, and see a train about to pass by. If I foreknow that the person driving that train will pass me, does that mean he had no freewill to do so? Of course not. Foreknowing what another will do does not take away their freewill decision to do it. God foreknew Judas would betray Christ, it was prophesied, but it was his freewill decision. And God can say He hates him before God even created the world.
Now another mention...
When God hardened Pharaoh's heart, it does not mean Pharoah was a puppet with no freewill. Example; if I throw a ball up in the air, and it bounces off my head, I can make the statement "God bounced a ball off my head." How so? God created gravity, physics, cause & reaction, me, the earth, etc. God set reaction in nature. It is human nature, when someone wrongs you, to react with revengeful thoughts, and to close off your vulnerability so that people can't hurt your heart again. The heart becomes hard and callused, and mean "I'll hurt you before you hurt me."
BUT a heart led by the Spirit does not have natural human reaction. When hurt, it forgives, and even cares for the one who hurt it. "Father please forgive them, they don't fully understand what they are doing."
So whether a heart responds with hatred or with love, is that heart's freewill decision. But both choices are put there by God. I can throw a ball up in the air, and quickly move out of the way, or block it with my hand to keep it from bouncing off my head. My point is we do have freewill choices to make- which will determine which reaction God has set in place.
Cause: If we do not obey God, Reaction: we go to hell.
Cause: If we obey God, Reaction: we go to heaven.
Just because God created both of these causes and reactions, does not mean we do not have freewill choice.
I am in the other room, and hear the cookie jar rattle. I know that when I go in the kitchen that I will find my daughter eating a cookie. Does that mean I forced her to? Of course not. Or again, let's say I'm at the train station, and see a train about to pass by. If I foreknow that the person driving that train will pass me, does that mean he had no freewill to do so? Of course not. Foreknowing what another will do does not take away their freewill decision to do it. God foreknew Judas would betray Christ, it was prophesied, but it was his freewill decision. And God can say He hates him before God even created the world.
Now another mention...
When God hardened Pharaoh's heart, it does not mean Pharoah was a puppet with no freewill. Example; if I throw a ball up in the air, and it bounces off my head, I can make the statement "God bounced a ball off my head." How so? God created gravity, physics, cause & reaction, me, the earth, etc. God set reaction in nature. It is human nature, when someone wrongs you, to react with revengeful thoughts, and to close off your vulnerability so that people can't hurt your heart again. The heart becomes hard and callused, and mean "I'll hurt you before you hurt me."
BUT a heart led by the Spirit does not have natural human reaction. When hurt, it forgives, and even cares for the one who hurt it. "Father please forgive them, they don't fully understand what they are doing."
So whether a heart responds with hatred or with love, is that heart's freewill decision. But both choices are put there by God. I can throw a ball up in the air, and quickly move out of the way, or block it with my hand to keep it from bouncing off my head. My point is we do have freewill choices to make- which will determine which reaction God has set in place.
Cause: If we do not obey God, Reaction: we go to hell.
Cause: If we obey God, Reaction: we go to heaven.
Just because God created both of these causes and reactions, does not mean we do not have freewill choice.
Hey, just a thought while you're dealing with the recent troll who joined.
People mock the Gospel call to the elect, and then come up with the free will gospel. Their argument is that since it is left up to us and our free will concerning salvation, then that is true love on the part of God and on the part of the one coming to God by their own free will. They did it because they love God so much. That's pure Pelagianism by the way.
But that is how dangerous the free will gospel is. They come to God out of their own love for God that is inherent within them and shows forth their true love. Just the thought of that makes me want to puke. Yet this is all contrary to Scripture - the lost hate God and are hostile toward Him. So rather than this truth, their false gospel paints a lovely picture of themselves, where they can pat themselves on the back because all along they really loved God and then came to him out of their true love in spite of Scripture showing this to be a deceptive lie.
This false free will gospel is what could derogatorily be described as the belief system of an elitist, self-righteous, entitled group. It is smug arrogance, it is in the face of God and it is against true revelation in Scripture.
People mock the Gospel call to the elect, and then come up with the free will gospel. Their argument is that since it is left up to us and our free will concerning salvation, then that is true love on the part of God and on the part of the one coming to God by their own free will. They did it because they love God so much. That's pure Pelagianism by the way.
But that is how dangerous the free will gospel is. They come to God out of their own love for God that is inherent within them and shows forth their true love. Just the thought of that makes me want to puke. Yet this is all contrary to Scripture - the lost hate God and are hostile toward Him. So rather than this truth, their false gospel paints a lovely picture of themselves, where they can pat themselves on the back because all along they really loved God and then came to him out of their true love in spite of Scripture showing this to be a deceptive lie.
This false free will gospel is what could derogatorily be described as the belief system of an elitist, self-righteous, entitled group. It is smug arrogance, it is in the face of God and it is against true revelation in Scripture.
