The return Of Christ in His own words and pauls

[Grace777x70]

Whenever we replace Christ Himself with the law of Moses which is really the belief that we can be righteous by what we do or don't do - we are not being obedient to the faith.

Replacing Christ for the keeping of the Jewish Sabbath day is not the gospel. Christ alone is our life and righteousness. Get this backwards and we create a religion that actually nullifies the very grace of God needed to live in this earth.

People are free to observe any day as they like but when they say "We must keep the Sabbath as in the law of Moses or else we are sinning and dis-obeying God." This is a Judaizing belief system that is replacing Christ Himself for the law of Moses.

Run from this belief system as fast as you can because it is NOT the gospel of the grace of God in Christ.

We are not going to commit spiritual adultery and desert the Lord for the Law of Moses.

 

[Rockrz]

Jesus is still teaching TODAY those who will hear Him

Yes, based on His written Word to give revelation of what He has already taught and has already done.

Some have fallen for satan's trick that there are modern day "apostles" that teaching things God did not write in His Word which is extra biblical and is not of God (like the NAR movement teaching Christians are taking over the world just so Jesus can come back)

Apostle means one sent of God so yes there are modern day apostles that God send out into ministry... but they are not authorized by God to teach anything other than the doctrine of Christ which the modern day so-called "gospel of grace" does not adhere to.

The New Testament does not mention "gospel of grace" and the Apostle Paul did not teach a different gospel than Jesus taught.

 

[Grace777x70]

Acts 20:24

24"But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, so that I may finish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of the grace of God.

 

[Rockrz]

Well my scriptures can beat up your scriptures!

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Matthew 4:23
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Matthew 9:35
And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mark 1:14
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Looks like Gospel of the Kingdom wins... 5 to 1

Your verse is obviously speaking to salvation comes by grace thru faith as mentioned in Ephesians 2:8... but the message from God is clearly the Gospel of the Kingdom as in the good news of God's Domain, the Domain of the King of King and Lord of Lords.

The so-called gospel of grace taught by modern TV preachers is not what Jesus and His Apostles taught as modern preachers claim faith alone saves us and it matters not whether we actually remain in close personal relationship with the Lord or not... they teach OSAS which is another gospel.

 

[BeyondET]

Yes, based on His written Word to give revelation of what He has already taught and has already done.

Some have fallen for satan's trick that there are modern day "apostles" that teaching things God did not write in His Word which is extra biblical and is not of God (like the NAR movement teaching Christians are taking over the world just so Jesus can come back)

Apostle means one sent of God so yes there are modern day apostles that God send out into ministry... but they are not authorized by God to teach anything other than the doctrine of Christ which the modern day so-called "gospel of grace" does not adhere to.

The New Testament does not mention "gospel of grace" and the Apostle Paul did not teach a different gospel than Jesus taught.

John 21:25
Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

 

[samuel23]

Hi beta: Read carefully the 15 chapter of Acts. It will tell you what the Spirit placed on gentile believers coming into the church.

 

[stonesoffire]

Did you all ever consider the law to Adam might still be effect?

Don't eat from the wrong tree. Could the walk of Spirit be so simple?

 

[Grace777x70]

The gospel is Christ Himself.

I like to use this site from time to time as it has answered a lot of questions that can come up concerning the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I especially like that at the bottom of the article people have asked questions which I find very useful because we usually have the same questions.

Here is the article if people are interested in this topic.

By Which Gospel Are You Saved? The Gospel of Grace!

Read the New Testament and you might come away with the idea that there is more than one gospel.

For example, the very first words of the New Testament in the King James Bible are, “The Gospel According to Matthew.” Read on and you will also find the gospels according to Mark, Luke and John. Keep reading and you will come across Paul telling the Romans about “my gospel” before warning the Corinthians to hold firm to the gospel that “I preached to you.”

Read all the way to the end and you will also encounter the “gospel of your salvation” (Eph 1:13), the “gospel of peace” (Eph 6:15), the “glorious gospel of the blessed God” (1 Tim 1:11), before finally reaching the “eternal gospel” proclaimed by the angel (Rev 14:6).

Of course, these are all labels for one and the same gospel. There is only one gospel in the Bible and that is the gospel which was known to Paul as the gospel of grace:

“I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me—the task of testifying to the gospel of God’s grace.” (Acts 20:24)

The One and Only gospel

The gospel of grace is the gospel and there is no other. This gospel is built, not on a doctrine or a theology, but on Jesus Christ himself:

“The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth … From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” (Jn 1:14, 16-17)

Whenever you read the word “grace” in the Bible, you can substitute the name “Jesus.” Jesus is grace personified. What does the grace of God look like? It looks like Jesus. What does the grace of God sound like? It sounds like Jesus. How do we know that God is gracious? He gave us Jesus who is full of grace and truth.

So when Paul refers to the gospel of grace in Acts 20, he means exactly the same thing as when he and others refer to the gospel of Christ or the gospel of God or the gospel of his Son or the gospel of peace in other places. All of these gospels reveal the One who is called Grace, who was given to us out of the fullness of the Father’s grace, and through whom we have received grace upon grace.

What about when Jesus refers to the gospel of the kingdom (Mt 24:14)? Is this a different gospel?

Whenever you hear Jesus talking about the “kingdom” you can substitute the word “king” because the kingdom is nothing without the king. Who is the King? His name is Jesus. When Jesus says we are to “seek first his kingdom and his righteousness,” he is essentially saying “seek me and my righteousness.” And where do we find his righteousness? In the gospel!

“For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: ‘The righteous will live by faith.’” (Rms 1:17)

To sum up, the gospel of the kingdom is the gospel of Christ which is the gospel of God which is the gospel of grace. They are different labels for the exact same gospel message.

What is the gospel of grace?

Paul summarized the gospel of grace in his letter to the Corinthians:

“Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time… (1 Cor 15:1-6)

What are the four most important bits of the gospel message according to its most prolific preacher? They are that; (i) Christ died for our sins as foretold in the Scriptures, (ii) he was buried, (iii) he was raised as the prophets foretold, and (iv) he appeared in resurrection to many.

The gospel is 100% good news!

On the cross Jesus became our sin offering, taking our punishment and securing our eternal forgiveness. He died so that we might live, he was wounded that we might be healed, and he was cursed so that we might be blessed.

Jesus forged a new covenant in his blood, exchanging our sinfulness for his righteousness. His miraculous return from death confirmed that Jesus was God’s Son, just as he said he was. It also showed that the demands of justice had been fully satisfied and that no further payment was necessary. As Derek Prince famously preached in The Divine Exchange, Jesus’ death on the cross was “perfectly perfect and completely complete.” There is nothing more that needs to be done.

Do you believe it?

The gospel is good news whether you believe it or not, but it will only save you if you believe it. As Paul declared to the Corinthians, “by this gospel are you saved.” Again, by which gospel are you saved? By the gospel of God’s grace:

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.” (Eph 2:8-9)

The gospel is not just for sinners

The gospel is no mere message. It is heaven’s cure for the world’s woes. And we can be fully confident that God’s cures are effective! Those who put their faith in his goodness and grace experience salvation power in all its fullness – victory over sin, healing from sickness, freedom from oppression.

“I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes…” (Rms 1:16)

The gospel is not just good news for the sinner. It is good news for the sick, the prisoner and the poor. It’s even good news for Christians. Today many sincere Christians are bound up in the dead works of performance-oriented religion. Their joylessness and lack of fruit testifies that they have forgotten the good news of God’s grace.

What are the works of grace?

Someone once asked Jesus, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

“Jesus answered, ‘The work of God is this: to believe in the One he has sent.’” (Jn 6:29)

The greatest thing you can do is believe the good news of God’s grace revealed in the One he has sent. Believe that because of what Jesus has done, you are forgiven, you have been clothed with his righteousness, and you have been adopted into his family.

When you say “Yes!” to Jesus, he moves into your life and you become one with him in spirit. On the inside, you now look exactly like Jesus and your status before God is “perfect forever” (Heb 10:14).

But your outside still needs work. Your mind needs to be renewed. Your body may need fixing. Your relationships may need mending. Your neighbors and workmates probably need saving. And God’s plan is to bring heaven to your corner of the world through you.

God has empowered you through his Spirit and the precious promises of his word to fulfill the gospel mandate. We do not need to hunker down and ask God to give us things. We just need to believe that through Christ we already have everything we need to get the job done (Eph 1:3, 2 Pet 1:3).

“Working out your salvation” means discovering who you are in Christ, taking risks for Jesus, and ministering in his power and authority. It means representing Jesus and his cross-wrought victory in areas where sins’ effects are still being felt. When you shine with Jesus-light, darkness flees and the dominion of the king is enlarged. Sin, sickness and poverty are put under his feet when you put them under your feet. We complete the mission the same way we started – by trusting in God’s amazing grace:

“But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.” (1 Cor 15:10, NKJV)

Which gospel are you listening to?

Take care that the gospel you are listening to is the gospel of grace. As Paul warned the Galatians, anything which adds to or detracts from the good news of God’s grace, is a distortion or perversion of the true gospel (Gal 1:6-7).

In Part 2, we will look at some of the ways the gospel of grace gets distorted.

Here is the link for those interested in looking at the questions or if you want to read "part 2" - How does the gospel get distorted by religion?

https://escapetoreality.org/2010/08/11/gospel-of-grace/

 

[Rockrz]

John 21:25
Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

Yes, many false teachers use this verse to introduce extra biblical teachings... this scripture is just speaking of the good works Jesus did and is not an open door to teach stuff that is not already taught in God's written Word.

 

[BeyondET]

Yes, many false teachers use this verse to introduce extra biblical teachings... this scripture is just speaking of the good works Jesus did and is not an open door to teach stuff that is not already taught in God's written Word.

So if Jesus taught someone of these works you mention that's not mentioned in writings, could that be taught to others?

 

[Grace777x70]

Obviously there many more things that Jesus still had to tell His disciples about but they wouldn't be able to understand them until later on by the Holy Spirit within them.

There is a lot more to the gospel of the grace of God in Christ then what is revealed in just the 4 gospels.

John 16:12-14 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]"I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.

[SUP]13 [/SUP] "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

[SUP]14 [/SUP] "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.


I always ask myself 3 questions about truth or a teaching because Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would "glorify Him".

1) Does it make Jesus bigger in your heart when you see His work and majesty? ( Or does it bring fear and insecurity because you are not "doing" enough to stay saved? )

2) Does it make you depend on Jesus and His finished work? ( or does it depend on what you do and depend on yourself?)

3) Does it make you fall deeply in love with your Lord, our Father and with all people? (Or does it make you view others as accursed, hated by God...etc - even though He loves them so much He sent His Son to die for them )

If I can answer these questions in the affirmative - then it is the good news of the grace of Christ.

We can view scriptures through the lens of the Old Covenant and then try to mix in a little of the New Covenant and we end up in mess of "working to maintain" our own righteousness for going to heaven.

When ever we don't factor in the finished work of Christ nor the real purpose for Jesus dying for us - the fact that God loves us dearly and He is not looking for ways to keep people from Him - we will end up in error as we are mixing up the covenants.

Bearing fruit stems from the life of Christ in us. He is the Vine we are the branches. The branch does not produce it's own fruit. It bears the life of the Vine.

The fruit of the Spirit being produced is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, meekness, goodness, faith and self-control. Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit of God living in us - not a product of self-effort in the flesh. There are counterfeits of all these fruit that the flesh can try to generate but they are not from God.

There is good fruit and bad fruit of the flesh - but it is still flesh. Outwardly these are sometimes hard to discern. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil had both types of fruit on it. Don't eat from that tree.

Eat from the tree of life - Christ = who is inside of us wanting to bear His fruit in and through us to a hurt and dying world as well as to our fellow brethren. We are one with Him in the spirit.

Let's keep beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord and the Holy Spirit will transforms us outwardly to reflect our true nature in our new creations in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

 

[Rockrz]

So if Jesus taught someone of these works you mention that's not mentioned in writings, could that be taught to others?

It's was speaking of works Jesus did... not about teachings that were not in God's written Word.

Once someone comes along and says they have revelation that was not included in God's written Word... you know that person is being inspired by satan and is teaching deception that is in opposition to the Lord.

There is a lot more to the gospel of the grace of God in Christ then what is revealed in just the 4 gospels.

Yes, and Jesus taught those things in the rest of the New Testament thru His Apostles which does not change the cornerstone teachings of the Gospel of the Kingdom which is what Jesus and His true Apostles taught.

 

[Rockrz]

The gospel of grace is the gospel and there is no other

The so-called 'gospel of grace' is not what Jesus and His Apostles taught. The gospel of the Kindom of God is what was taught and we get to enter in by grace, thru faith.

The gospel is 100% good news!

No, actually God has warnings in the NT concerning those that do not obey the gospel and those warnings are applicalble to saint and sinners alike.

What modern preachers fail to understand is that... warnings are good news cause it's the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Someone once asked Jesus, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

“Jesus answered, ‘The work of God is this: to believe in the One he has sent.’” (Jn 6:29)

And, the Lord defined "believe" (faith) as baring fruit in the Book of James among others.

Jesus said in John 15 that those IN HIM (at the time this was spoken it was a forward looking statement speaking about born again folks...) who do not bare fruit, the Father takes way which we see in Romans 1 where those that choose to not retain the knowledge of God are given over to a reprobate mind who become twice dead as mentioned in the Book of Jude, clouds with out water (people with no life living in them, having turned away from the Lord)

Galatians 1:6,7
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Yes, the majority of the TV preachers (like the cat from Singapore, the cat from Hong Kong and that other cat from Houston) are perverting the gospel into a OSAS, we can walk after the flesh and it's all good kinda message which God warned us about in His Word:


*Warnings and Notices concerning the times we live in and the coming end of this age – PAY ATTENTION!

1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)

1 Timothy 6:3-5
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

*Paul is saying here we should consent to the Words of our Lord Jesus Christ! That's not what the false grace TV preachers tell us...

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Many preachers today that are so wildly popular contradict the Lord and teach that Jesus taught law to the Jews and we should only listen to what Jesus taught after the resurrection... all lies of satan.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)

(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, abnegate, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Today's false grace teachers claim that... sin does not separate us from God leading many to believe they can walk in sin and play like it's all good, you know what I'm sayin dawg? YO!

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

Matthew 24:3-13
What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ (saying I am anointed); and shall deceive many.
And you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that you be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation (ethnic group vs ethnic group), and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in many different places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. (See 1 John 5:3 AND 2 John 1:6)
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


Those that ignore the Lord's warnings concerning these end times happenings... are ripe for deception!

 

[Grace777x70]

We have to keep 2 aspects in mind when interpreting scriptures on salvation.

Works-based believers see the warning scriptures and "interpret" those to mean that one loses salvation as in going to be with the Lord for eternity.

We should be admonished to listen to these warning scriptures but let's get the proper foundation in the Lord down first so that these warning scriptures will be put in their proper place.

This type of mindset does not know the love and grace of God for people and thus they develop a fear based religion of works "to keep one saved".

1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear,because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Salvation manifests itself here in this earth and also for going to be with the Lord because we are in Christ - sealed by the Holy Spirit when we believed as Paul said in Eph. 1:13 ; 4:30.

Start shooting heroin in your arms today and you will NOT experience salvation - that is life and wholeness on this earth for very long.

Confuse the 2 and we will come up with all kinds of works-based salvationists views - like we lose our righteousness. We don't have our "own" righteousness. Christ Himself is our righteousness.

I believe we have to differentiate between "going to heaven to be with the Lord " salvation and - "being saved from the things that can destroy us here while being on this earth."

There are different manifestations of salvation in Christ - one is going to be with the Lord - the other is concerning the things of this life on earth.

The promised land is a type of being in Christ now - it is not a type of heaven as there will be no giants to fight in heaven.

Moses did not get to rest in what God had already provided for the Israelites - but yet Moses is with God now.

The promised land is a type of living here on this earth by believing in the promises of God. Only Caleb and Joshua were the ones that got to experience the promises of God in the promised land because they believed in what God had said.

We can inherit now in this life some things that are of the kingdom of Godbecause the kingdom of God is within us...however if we don't have our minds renewed to the truth in Christ ( which includes living by the Spirit within us ) - we can not experience the things of the kingdom that are available to us believers.

Scripture uses the same Greek word - " salvation, saved " = wholeness, preservation, keep safe, deliverance, make well - for bothbeing saved from things in this life and for going to be with the Lord for eternity.

If we don't understand this difference we will continually be mis-applying scriptures that talk about "being saved here in this life from things" and "going to be with the Lord when we leave this earth because we are joined as one spirit with Him".

There is eternal salvation and there is a manifestation of salvation from temporal things while on this earth. Confuse the two and we end up with a mixed up message of self-effort for going to heaven and only the blood of Jesus does that.

Jesus is either our Savior for going to be in heaven with Him or we are our own savior by helping Him. One is by grace through faith-righteousness - the other is works-righteousness.

Let's just rely on the Holy Spirit to reveal the things of Christ to us.

We are safe in the Lord Jesus Christ and we can trust Him to do what He has He will do and has already done for us.

We have a great salvation in Him! We can trust the Lord when He said "I will never leave you nor forsake you!" Jesus said that the Holy Spirit ewill be in us forever. John 14:16

The proper teaching of the gospel of Christ and what He has already done for us will provide the "nutrients" for the new creation in Christ which has been created in righteousness and holiness to manifest His life in and through us - and yes this also shows in our behavior.

As we have received Christ our Lord - so we walk in Him - and it is all by grace through faith. Col. 2:6

His love which is in us will come forth and bear much fruit. The behavior is a "fruit of salvation" - it does not produce salvation. Only Christ Himself is our true salvation - it is "in Him".

 

[followjesus]

Friend, I am in exactly the same situation you are in and so do not expect a better result....keep hoping, but God will have to work a miracle here.
I have asked the question what we are to do now we are in Christ and the answer is much the same - 'rest in His finished work'.
As I understand this it was His 'earthly mission that finished with /in His death, there was still His 'spiritual work to come and teach us how to continue in OUR spiritual new man/woman. Jesus is still teaching TODAY those who will hear Him...He and His Father work hitherto ! We should not think that for us all stopped and finished at the cross !

it actually begins at the cross...Our new Life as Children of God who are to be like Jesus through acceoting His word as the One who suffered so much to bring us Home. lol you seem to have developed much more patience than I as of Yet, to me a year is alot to just continually be told " everything before the Cross ( the gospel) just doesnt apply to christians.....its a razor blade in my apple and my tongue is raw at this point.

 

[followjesus]

The so-called 'gospel of grace' is not what Jesus and His Apostles taught. The gospel of the Kindom of God is what was taught and we get to enter in by grace, thru faith.






No, actually God has warnings in the NT concerning those that do not obey the gospel and those warnings are applicalble to saint and sinners alike.

What modern preachers fail to understand is that... warnings are good news cause it's the leading of the Holy Spirit.




And, the Lord defined "believe" (faith) as baring fruit in the Book of James among others.

Jesus said in John 15 that those IN HIM (at the time this was spoken it was a forward looking statement speaking about born again folks...) who do not bare fruit, the Father takes way which we see in Romans 1 where those that choose to not retain the knowledge of God are given over to a reprobate mind who become twice dead as mentioned in the Book of Jude, clouds with out water (people with no life living in them, having turned away from the Lord)






Yes, the majority of the TV preachers (like the cat from Singapore, the cat from Hong Kong and that other cat from Houston) are perverting the gospel into a OSAS, we can walk after the flesh and it's all good kinda message which God warned us about in His Word:


*Warnings and Notices concerning the times we live in and the coming end of this age – PAY ATTENTION!

1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)

1 Timothy 6:3-5
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

*Paul is saying here we should consent to the Words of our Lord Jesus Christ! That's not what the false grace TV preachers tell us...

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Many preachers today that are so wildly popular contradict the Lord and teach that Jesus taught law to the Jews and we should only listen to what Jesus taught after the resurrection... all lies of satan.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)

(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, abnegate, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Today's false grace teachers claim that... sin does not separate us from God leading many to believe they can walk in sin and play like it's all good, you know what I'm sayin dawg? YO!

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

Matthew 24:3-13
What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ (saying I am anointed); and shall deceive many.
And you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that you be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation (ethnic group vs ethnic group), and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in many different places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. (See 1 John 5:3 AND 2 John 1:6)
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


Those that ignore the Lord's warnings concerning these end times happenings... are ripe for deception!

this is one of the very best most to the truth comments i have ever read on this site, ( if i knew how to rep point you i would but im not very technologically gifted its a wonder i can get online God bless you for this comment and whatever else He sees fit to bless you in and with and for !

 

[followjesus]

Paul commanded some stuff to be done on Sunday... did ya ever notice 9 of the 10 Commandments are in the New Testament but there is no clear, direct command for followers of Jesus to observe on Saturday???

Observing the Sabbath

Paul plainly declared that no Christian should be “judged” (i.e., condemned) for failing to observe the Sabbath (Col. 2:16) — a statement that never would have been made if the law of Moses had been binding when the apostle penned his letter.

The evidence of the New Testament is decisive. The early Christians met on “the first day of the week” (Acts 20:7), indeed “every first day of the week” (1 Cor. 16:2). [Note: The Greek of 1 Corinthians 16:2 is kata mian sabbatou, literally, “on the first day of every week” — see: J.H. Thayer, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark, 1958, p. 328).

There is no biblical case that can be made in defense of “Christian Sabbath-keeping” for today. Efforts to this end are exercises in theological futility. That proposition has the support of neither Scripture mandate nor apostolic precedent. There is no scriptural call to action in the New Testament for Christians to “Christian Sabbath-keeping”… Jesus Christ IS our Sabbath and those walking in the Spirit being born again have entered into Christ being translated from the world into the Kingdom of God’s Dear Son (Colossians 1:13).


Sundays - Why we Observe

Jesus arose upon “the first day of the week….”
Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1

Pentecost by Divine design always came on Sunday. (Lev. 23:15-16)
Acts 2

The church was established repentance and remission of sins first preached this Sunday in Acts 2 and they were added to the saved.
Acts 2

The early church met on the first day of the week” for communion.
Acts 20:7

Early church offerings were directed to be done upon the first day of the week…”.
1 Corinthians 16:2

[HR][/HR]​

Mankind's Day of Rest, the Sabbath Day

Question - Since the Old Testament commanded people to observe the Sabbath on the seventh day of the week, why have most Christian churches switched their day of worship to Sunday, the first day of the week?

Not all churches answer this question the same way. Some groups, most notably the Seventh-day Adventists, still worship on the seventh day. They argue that the sabbath was one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20), and is therefore part of God's permanent will for His people.

They often claim that the shift to Sunday was part of a great apostasy that allowed pagan ideas to infiltrate the church during the early centuries (see Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, pp. 58-59).

Other Christian groups say that Sunday is the Christian version of the sabbath. They suggest that the main point of God's command to observe the sabbath was not the seventh day, but the idea of one day out of the seven. Jesus claimed that he was “lord even of the sabbath” (Mark 2:28), and therefore had the authority to change it to a different day.

This position argues that Jesus changed the day to Sunday as a way of extending its blessing from the Jews to the whole world. Still others Christians would say that we no longer observe the Jewish sabbath, but worship instead on Sunday, a distinctively Christian holy day. They argue that the early church very soon began meeting on Sunday in honor of the resurrection of Jesus, which took place on the first day of the week.

At the very beginning, the church in Jerusalem met every day in the temple and in private homes (Acts 2:46). Since the first believers were all Jewish, it seems safe to assume that they continued to participate in Jewish synagogue and temple worship for some time.

However, the New Testament makes it clear that the observance of a particular day was not imposed as a binding obligation.

Romans 14:5-6 makes it clear that there was some freedom in the matter of special days. Colossians 2:16-17 commanded the church not to allow anyone to act as their judge in regard to sabbath days. And Galatians 4:9-10 warns against going back under the Law by insisting on the legal requirement of special days.

The records that remain in the New Testament show that the first day of the week soon became a day of worship. When Paul wanted to collect an offering from the church at Corinth, he asked them to gather the money on the “first day of the week” (1 Cor. 16:2). And when he wanted to meet with the believers at Troas, the gathering took place "on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread" (Acts 20:7).

In Revelation 1:10, the apostle John described himself as being "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day." Most writers have thought he was referring to Sunday, so that our use of "the Lord's Day" as a term for Sunday comes from this verse. There is no Scripture passage that specifically teaches that the sabbath has been transferred from one day to another.

It seems most likely that the shift from Saturday to Sunday was gradual, and took place along with the change from a mostly Jewish church to a mostly Gentile one. The early church fathers generally viewed sabbath as a Jewish observance, and the Lord's Day as the proper Christian observance. For example, Ignatius wrote in the early 100's A.D., describing Christians with a Jewish background as those who “have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death” (Magnesians 9 )

[note: Magnesians is a letter written to the church at Magnesia by Ignatius, a church father, also called Theophorus.] (NOT a Scriptural Reference)

A person's decision concerning sabbath observance probably hinges on the question of how we view the entire Old Testament. If all of it is still binding on us, then so is the sabbath. If there are parts that are no longer binding because they were directed specifically to the Jewish nation, or because they were for ritual purposes, then the sabbath is open for discussion. No matter what position a person takes, it is important to recognize that God has a claim to all of my time. When I give Him one day of the week, it reminds me that He owns all seven!

"Paul plainly declared that no Christian should be “judged” (i.e., condemned) for failing to observe the Sabbath (Col. 2:16) — a statement that never would have been made if the law of Moses had been binding when the apostle penned his letter."


Isreal broke the first covenant because thier prophets began telling Lies " God will never punish us, were chosen, our covenant will never change" i guess tey missed all in the law that said " but if you will not harken unto my words and obey my commands and precepts i will scatter you into every nation and i will send famine, plague, the sword and wild beasts to destroy you and make you and example for the world."

Because they began omitting Gods Word of warning to the people, then began stoning the prophets and anyone speaking repentance God divorced them Like a man would divorce and unfaithful wife, not God breaking the covenant but them. He kept forgiving them but eventually they lost respect for His word wanting only the blessing and not the responsability. many of the prophetic writings about half way through begin prophecies of God saying " this is what the soveriegn Lord says because ( of the above) I will do everything i told you i would if you didnt obey me. and He did Jews are the most historically persecuted people on earth by Far and they lost thier nation for about 2000 years Just recently last century being given back part of thier nations land. there are still Jews in every nation as of 1999 anyways.

the Old covenant ended before Jesus even came to earth there were 400 years between abrams promise and moses deliverance, and 400 years between the last prophet and the gospel of no communucation between God and man. the Law of moses isnt abolished its Just not for the person who comes into the Gospel.

the Lord of the " sabbath" Jesus and the disciples worked on the sabbath thats one of the main accusation points of the pharisees. its lawful to do good on the sabbath even if it requires work such as helping a neighbor in need or whatever God considers good. the new covenant is what Jesus taught


Hebrews 1:1-2 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds"

Hebrews 2:1-4 "Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; 3How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?"

Hebrews 7:11-12 "If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being CHANGED, there is made of necessity a CHANGE also of the law."

Hebrews 7:17-19 "For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.For there is verily a DISSANNULLING of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. 19For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God"

Hebrews 7:22"By so much was Jesus made a surety of a BETTER TESTAMENT."

Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."


definately not under the old Testament Law, but rather were in the Gospel testament spoken By the Lord (hebrews 1 :1-2) and sent into the world through the apostles

Matthew 28:18-20 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." << after the resurrection, confirming everything He taught them meant for the World

 

[Rockrz]

this is one of the very best most to the truth comments i have ever read on this site, ( if i knew how to rep point you i would but im not very technologically gifted its a wonder i can get online God bless you for this comment and whatever else He sees fit to bless you in and with and for !

Thanks... but the thanks should go to the Lord cause it it weren't for Him.... I'd be in hell by now!

A few years back, the Lord revealed to me that I was ignoring His warnings in the NT (you know, the ones Christians play like aren't in the Word of God) and that if I would take them seriously it would open up understanding concerning how His Kingdom works.

The funny thing is... it's so simple a child can get it and the Lord even said if we are not converted and become as a little child we shall not enter in to the Kingdom (Matthew 18:3). We should be followers of the Lord as dear children (Ephesians 5:1)
We should never be moved away from the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:3)

 

[Rockrz]

the Old covenant ended before Jesus even came to earth

Not according to Jesus...

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached

 

[beta]

it actually begins at the cross...Our new Life as Children of God who are to be like Jesus through acceoting His word as the One who suffered so much to bring us Home. lol you seem to have developed much more patience than I as of Yet, to me a year is alot to just continually be told " everything before the Cross ( the gospel) just doesnt apply to christians.....its a razor blade in my apple and my tongue is raw at this point.

Friend , I am no better than anyone else....just as hurt and impatient, so much so I said to God I would give up - and He said we are to be patient as HE is patient with us ! so like you....every now and again I keep trying....yet at the same time asking God to turn me if I am wrong. We are in a battle my friend that requires 'enduring to the end ! Be of good courage - God knows what He is doing !love you !