The return Of Christ in His own words and pauls

[followjesus]

Matthew 25:31-46 "When the SON of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered ALL NATIONS: and he shall SEPERATE THEM one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his RIGHT hand, Come, ye blessed of MY FATHER, inherit the KINGDOM prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and YE GAVE ME meat: I was thirsty, and ye GAVE ME drink: I was a stranger, and YE TOOK ME IN: Naked, and YE CLOTHED ME: I was sick, and YE VISITED ME: I was in prison, and YE CAME UNTO ME.

Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the LEAST OF THESE my brethren, ye have done it UNTO ME."


"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me NO meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me NO drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me NOT in: naked, and ye clothed me NOT: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me NOT. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it NOT to one of the LEAST OF THESE, ye did it not to ME. And these shall go away into EVERLASTING punishment: but THE RIGHTEOUS INTO LIFE ETERNAL."


The words of the One who is returning How things will be, The One who Knows explaining to His followers about His Own return.There is no valid reason to not believe Jesus what he said about Gods Kingdom and eternal Life, salvation is eternal will never change or be made of no effect. and the apostles taught the same thing as Jesus concerning His return and judgement well after the cross. Paul is no different, yet those who hold paul up , refuse all he says of the exact same things.

Romans 2:2-But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God.12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another 16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

is there really any doubt that paul is speaking from the gospel about the same event? its like this with all that Jesus taught, the apostles all taught the same things including repentance, doing the word, rather than Hearing only, they all taught brotherly Love Just like Jesus taught them. There is no reason to accept only a few verses of paul no basis for that when he writes so clearly the same principles as the rest. The cross is the reason we need not sacrifice animals and follow the old priesthood, it never changes Right and wrong it doesnt lack Justice it perfects it.

ephesians 5: 1-7" Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. 3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them."

colossians 3:1-11 "If ye then BE RISEN with Christ, SEEK those things which are above, where Christ sitteth ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD. Set your AFFECTION ON THINGS ABOVE, NOT ON things on the earth. For ye are dead, and YOUR LIFE is hid WITH CHRIST IN GOD. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
MORTIFY THERFORE your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and COVETOUSNESS, which IS IDOLATRY: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of DISOBEDIENCE: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also PUT OFF ALL THESE; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have PUT OFF the old man with HIS DEEDS; And have put on the NEW MAN, which is RENEWED IN KNOWLEDGE after the IMAGE OF HIM THAT CREATED: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

Romans 12:1-2 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is YOUR REASONABLE SERVICE. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the RENEWING OF YOUR MIND, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Galatians 6:7-10 "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that SOWETH to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap LIFE EVERLASTING. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith."


Just a few examples from paul that shouldnt be unclear and really should be considered especially when you see the same things in peter, john, other teachings of Jesus, echoed the same way. The gospel Jesus taught is the way taught by His followers all thier expounding knowledge is based on the Gospel which God sent with His Son. The good news of the Kingdom of God that He is always talking about in the 4 gospels......

 

[beta]

We should not forget that all these wonderful teachings are for us today, given by Jesus and His loyal Apostles who themselves observed the 7th day Sabbath....why should it be any different for us ?
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and for ever conforming us to His image.
It is only after they were persecuted and killed that ungodly men crept in and changed what Jesus had established. I hope and pray that the veil of deception is removed from all faces before it is too late.

 

[Johnny_B]

We should not forget that all these wonderful teachings are for us today, given by Jesus and His loyal Apostles who themselves observed the 7th day Sabbath....why should it be any different for us ?
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and for ever conforming us to His image.
It is only after they were persecuted and killed that ungodly men crept in and changed what Jesus had established. I hope and pray that the veil of deception is removed from all faces before it is too late.

Of course you're face is not veiled, here's your pray sounds like to Jesus.

"Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess."

 

[notuptome]

We should not forget that all these wonderful teachings are for us today, given by Jesus and His loyal Apostles who themselves observed the 7th day Sabbath....why should it be any different for us ?
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and for ever conforming us to His image.
It is only after they were persecuted and killed that ungodly men crept in and changed what Jesus had established. I hope and pray that the veil of deception is removed from all faces before it is too late.

You seek to keep a law that was for Israel not the gentile church. Salvation is by grace not by keeping the law. Read Romans 14 and allow others who keep Sunday the same liberty they allow to you to keep Saturday.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[followjesus]

We should not forget that all these wonderful teachings are for us today, given by Jesus and His loyal Apostles who themselves observed the 7th day Sabbath....why should it be any different for us ?
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and for ever conforming us to His image.
It is only after they were persecuted and killed that ungodly men crept in and changed what Jesus had established. I hope and pray that the veil of deception is removed from all faces before it is too late.

amen thats GREAT post there !! God bless you

 

[followjesus]

You seek to keep a law that was for Israel not the gentile church. Salvation is by grace not by keeping the law. Read Romans 14 and allow others who keep Sunday the same liberty they allow to you to keep Saturday.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Grace means your created to do good works. you guys never part from the thinking that obeying God is trying to save yourself lol its astounding to me when on one hand you accept saved by grace, but dismiss all the context like " you are created for the purpose of doing good works prepared in advance. << those Good works are found in the teachings of Jesus. BUT .....if a person actually believes Jesus, somehow that parts from the " real gospel" when He says again and again keep my word, stick to the things im teaching you, its life everlasting.

this to you is acceptable " the work of God is this, to believe in the One he sent" <<< but then when the one He sent starts teaching " why do you call me lord and do not do what i say? or " if you Love me, obey my commands" then all the sudden the One God sent, isnt the right One to believe.....if you guys ever get ahold of real grace, you will be overjoyed to start Learning the ways of God the Father and good works wont be a dirty word, but exactly what you are made to do, with gratitude to your King who suffered and died. when you folks get out of the best selling revolutionary grace books and into the gospel. it will change you, but the word wont need to be twisted and ommited , youll Love the obedience stuff that is so important to Jesus and stop thinking Gods ways arent for you

 

[followjesus]

Of course you're face is not veiled, here's your pray sounds like to Jesus.

"Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess."

you have to be a new grace believer. can i ask you why this is perfectly acceptable to you

john 6:29"Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent" you will quote this 1000 times BUT when Jesus says

matthew 7:21-27"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."

then all of the sudden the one God sent isnt the One to believe what He says? something isnt Jiving in the grace nothing to do, obedience is evil doctrine......

 

[Grace777x70]

I have never heard anyone say that there is no obedience as some people have accused others of saying. It's complete nonsense that is malice driven and just plain deceitfulness.

Obedience in the New Covenant:

Obedience to me is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man. It is not the root. It's the love of God and the life of Christ manifesting Himself in and through us to a hurt and dying world and to our fellow brethren.

It is not necessarily something "we do to be" but stems from something we "already are now" in Him and so we "do love" as we grow in our awareness of His love for us.

We obey our Lord and Father because we know Him and trust in His character and obedience is not a set of rules that we follow, but a natural flow of the life of God in us built on a love-trust relationship. When you know the love of God for us we will obey Him naturally and effortlessly.

When our minds are renewed to the truth that is in Christ - we obey from our hearts effortlessly. It's a fruit of being in Christ.

I maintain that obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man that is created in Christ. When we teach the grace of God this enables us to bear His fruit in and through us to reflect the true kingdom of the love and grace of God to a hurt and dying world.

Teach and preach who believers are in Christ because we are in union in one spirit with the Lord Jesus and they will "awake to righteousness" that is in them because they are a new creation in Him and sin not and walk in the good works that God has prepared for them.

Legalism - in the biblical sense of the word - is any attitude or belief that human merit can produce, prove, or preserve for one-self an acceptable standing before God.

Whenever our assurance of salvation rests upon our "performance" rather then upon the "promises" of God that are Yes and Amen in Christ - we are in big trouble - we have fallen from grace to rely on our own self-effort so grace that is only in Christ Himself does not flow to us like it was meant to do.

 

[followjesus]

I have never heard anyone say that there is no obedience as some people have accused others of saying. It's complete nonsense that is malice driven and just plain deceitfulness.

Obedience in the New Covenant:

Obedience to me is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man. It is not the root. It's the love of God and the life of Christ manifesting Himself in and through us to a hurt and dying world and to our fellow brethren.

It is not necessarily something "we do to be" but stems from something we "already are now" in Him and so we "do love" as we grow in our awareness of His love for us.

We obey our Lord and Father because we know Him and trust in His character and obedience is not a set of rules that we follow, but a natural flow of the life of God in us built on a love-trust relationship. When you know the love of God for us we will obey Him naturally and effortlessly.

When our minds are renewed to the truth that is in Christ - we obey from our hearts effortlessly. It's a fruit of being in Christ.

I maintain that obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man that is created in Christ. When we teach the grace of God this enables us to bear His fruit in and through us to reflect the true kingdom of the love and grace of God to a hurt and dying world.

Teach and preach who believers are in Christ because we are in union in one spirit with the Lord Jesus and they will "awake to righteousness" that is in them because they are a new creation in Him and sin not and walk in the good works that God has prepared for them.

Legalism - in the biblical sense of the word - is any attitude or belief that human merit can produce, prove, or preserve for one-self an acceptable standing before God.

Whenever our assurance of salvation rests upon our "performance" rather then upon the "promises" of God that are Yes and Amen in Christ - we are in big trouble - we have fallen from grace to rely on our own self-effort so grace that is only in Christ Himself does not flow to us like it was meant to do.

yoiu guys constantly always equate the simplicity of hearing Gods word, accepting and doing it to "self effort" its just another way of deception the Long explainations of How Gods word really doesnt say what it says.....just like the serpent. as long as obedience to God seems "wrong" and " self" to you , your missing Life. the Principle of Hearing, and accepting Gods Word as if it is Gods Word and Because it is GODS word the Word of your God you simply do it, because He is God. its simple man. you guys omit anything that doesnt make effortless salvation seem plausible.

If Christ is in you your existance is to Do what God says to do. because you omit the majority of Gods Word, your trying to Build a castle from Crumbs or a house with a single brick. Grace DOES NOT mean you are not to Give God every effort to obey Him. under the Law it didnt Help, couldnt change anything and would be " self effort" but the Gospel is not the Law of Moses, its where Life exists. Honestly its become comical to see how many different nonsensical ways you ignore scripture and explain it away with quotes from popular false teachers. totally ignoring the simplicity God has placed before you.

Obedience is Just obedience. Either we Live contrary to Gods Word, or we accept What He says so simply and so vastly repetitively so that no one can ever misunderstand Him and repent and follow this exact same principle. "accept the word of truth and be a doer of that " theres no life in the grace distortion its a deception plainly and simply. Gods Word is what works, not theological debates asking " did God really say that ? and answering " Naw you arent supposed to Obey the Lords Word....let me explain to you what God is really saying..." on and on the distorted Grace is the voice of the serpent im sorry for those decieved By it, but ill never part from the truth so thanks for the explanations why The word needs to be understood differently than Jesus teaches....But ill stick With My Lord and Saviors Word until the end.

 

[Grace777x70]

Who omits the majority of God's words? My goodness the malice and deceitfulness here is unbelievable. Oh well...it's just the nature of the flesh acting up...All is well.....I forgive you...Be blessed. The Lord will be faithful to reveal His love and grace to you and all your family.

 

[Stephen63]

Who omits the majority of God's words? My goodness the malice and deceitfulness here is unbelievable. Oh well...it's just the nature of the flesh acting up...All is well.....I forgive you...Be blessed. The Lord will be faithful to reveal His love and grace to you and all your family.

The deceitfulness that I hear is you stating that all of walking in obedience is to believe in Jesus.

Like this one:

As far as Rev. 20:12 ..what is the work of God for believers? For unbelievers they are going to be judged outside of Christ by what they do.

John 6:28-29 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

And this one:

Our part is to believe in Him..believing in Him releases His life outwardly in good works..it always starts with Him...never us!

John 6:28-29 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

And this one:

We participate by walking in agreement with our renewed mind. Christ saves us with His life and blood - not ourselves.

The "doing of the word" is believing what Christ has already done and walking in that knowledge and according to the Spirit within us instead of the flesh.

John 6:28-29 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Aaand this one:

I can see where some might think that but there is definitely scripture for this very thing - believing on Jesus for life and salvation is a work - a work that the Father desires from us.

John 6:28-29 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

You would not believe how many times you've quoted this over & over as the only way to obey God.

 

[followjesus]

The deceitfulness that I hear is you stating that all of walking in obedience is to believe in Jesus.

Like this one:


And this one:

And this one:


Aaand this one:


You would not believe how many times you've quoted this over & over as the only way to obey God.

2 timothy 4:3-5 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry."

John 8:12-13 "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that FOLLOWETH ME shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the LIGHT OF LIFE. 13The PHARISEES therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is NOT TRUE"

john 8:23-28 ".And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I AM FROM ABOVE: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE, ye shall die in your sins. 25Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. 26I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I SPEAK TO THE WORLD those things which I have heard of HIM. 27They understood not that he spake to them of THE FATHER. 28Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and thatI do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I SPEAK THESE THINGS. "

john 8:42-43 "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, YE WOULD LOVE ME: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but HE SENT ME. 43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye CANNOT HEAR MY WORD."

john 14:23-24 "Jesus answered and said unto him, IF A MAN LOVE ME, he will KEEP MY WORDS: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24HE THAT LOVETH ME NOT KEEPETH NOT MY SAYINGS: and THE WORD WHICH YE HEAR is not mine, but THE FATHERS WHICH SENT ME."

1 thessolonians 4:3-7 "For this is the WILL OF GOD, even YOUR SANCTIFICATION, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in SANCTIFICATION AND HONOUR; 5Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: 6That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as WE ALSO HAVE FOREWARNED YOU AND TESTIFIED.7For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto HOLINESS. 8He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but GOD, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit."

jOHN 17:13-17 "And now come I to thee; and THESE THINGS I SPEAK INTO THE WORLD that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14I HAVE GIVEN THEM THY WORD;...V. 17 SANCTIFY THEM THROUGH THY TRUTH: THY WORD IS TRUTH."


Thos words and teachings of Jesus are pretty important ....but thats Just if we are gonna believe that Jesus guy, you know....the Lord and Savior of those who believe

 

[beta]

Who omits the majority of God's words? My goodness the malice and deceitfulness here is unbelievable. Oh well...it's just the nature of the flesh acting up...All is well.....I forgive you...Be blessed. The Lord will be faithful to reveal His love and grace to you and all your family.

OK - let us put aside all (imagined) malice and deceitfulness and start with Grace777 repeated posts !
So we all believe in what 'Jesus has done for us 'on the cross ...since we know that none of us are going anywhere without Him ! We love and thank Him for all He has done for us, which brings us all 'to Christ' !
Now we are 'in Christ what do we do ? Here is where it all falls apart and we start seeing things differently - Why ?
Some say 'do nothing and rest in His finished work - others say ' imitate and follow Him in order to be conformed to His image. So here we are....constantly arguing as to who is right ! are you with me so far or do you have a better understanding of our situation ? let's start at the bottom to sort this out !

 

[royalscot]

that the wonderful thing about truth it dose not set anything aside.
.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace Galatians 5

that dose not mean, continue in your own understanding, or religions understanding. it mean you have no authority in the body. and god works among you because of this verse.

5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith---Galatians 3



the truth set you free , to have freedom .
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.Galatians 2


what action did you earn righteousness, if you saved by a saviour.

and if it came as a gift. why do you now think it is an action.

17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

 

[Rockrz]

who themselves observed the 7th day Sabbath....why should it be any different for us ?

Paul commanded some stuff to be done on Sunday... did ya ever notice 9 of the 10 Commandments are in the New Testament but there is no clear, direct command for followers of Jesus to observe on Saturday???

Observing the Sabbath

Paul plainly declared that no Christian should be “judged” (i.e., condemned) for failing to observe the Sabbath (Col. 2:16) — a statement that never would have been made if the law of Moses had been binding when the apostle penned his letter.

The evidence of the New Testament is decisive. The early Christians met on “the first day of the week” (Acts 20:7), indeed “every first day of the week” (1 Cor. 16:2). [Note: The Greek of 1 Corinthians 16:2 is kata mian sabbatou, literally, “on the first day of every week” — see: J.H. Thayer, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark, 1958, p. 328).

There is no biblical case that can be made in defense of “Christian Sabbath-keeping” for today. Efforts to this end are exercises in theological futility. That proposition has the support of neither Scripture mandate nor apostolic precedent. There is no scriptural call to action in the New Testament for Christians to “Christian Sabbath-keeping”… Jesus Christ IS our Sabbath and those walking in the Spirit being born again have entered into Christ being translated from the world into the Kingdom of God’s Dear Son (Colossians 1:13).


Sundays - Why we Observe

Jesus arose upon “the first day of the week….”
Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1

Pentecost by Divine design always came on Sunday. (Lev. 23:15-16)
Acts 2

The church was established repentance and remission of sins first preached this Sunday in Acts 2 and they were added to the saved.
Acts 2

The early church met on the first day of the week” for communion.
Acts 20:7

Early church offerings were directed to be done upon the first day of the week…”.
1 Corinthians 16:2

[HR][/HR]​

Mankind's Day of Rest, the Sabbath Day

Question - Since the Old Testament commanded people to observe the Sabbath on the seventh day of the week, why have most Christian churches switched their day of worship to Sunday, the first day of the week?

Not all churches answer this question the same way. Some groups, most notably the Seventh-day Adventists, still worship on the seventh day. They argue that the sabbath was one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20), and is therefore part of God's permanent will for His people.

They often claim that the shift to Sunday was part of a great apostasy that allowed pagan ideas to infiltrate the church during the early centuries (see Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, pp. 58-59).

Other Christian groups say that Sunday is the Christian version of the sabbath. They suggest that the main point of God's command to observe the sabbath was not the seventh day, but the idea of one day out of the seven. Jesus claimed that he was “lord even of the sabbath” (Mark 2:28), and therefore had the authority to change it to a different day.

This position argues that Jesus changed the day to Sunday as a way of extending its blessing from the Jews to the whole world. Still others Christians would say that we no longer observe the Jewish sabbath, but worship instead on Sunday, a distinctively Christian holy day. They argue that the early church very soon began meeting on Sunday in honor of the resurrection of Jesus, which took place on the first day of the week.

At the very beginning, the church in Jerusalem met every day in the temple and in private homes (Acts 2:46). Since the first believers were all Jewish, it seems safe to assume that they continued to participate in Jewish synagogue and temple worship for some time.

However, the New Testament makes it clear that the observance of a particular day was not imposed as a binding obligation.

Romans 14:5-6 makes it clear that there was some freedom in the matter of special days. Colossians 2:16-17 commanded the church not to allow anyone to act as their judge in regard to sabbath days. And Galatians 4:9-10 warns against going back under the Law by insisting on the legal requirement of special days.

The records that remain in the New Testament show that the first day of the week soon became a day of worship. When Paul wanted to collect an offering from the church at Corinth, he asked them to gather the money on the “first day of the week” (1 Cor. 16:2). And when he wanted to meet with the believers at Troas, the gathering took place "on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread" (Acts 20:7).

In Revelation 1:10, the apostle John described himself as being "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day." Most writers have thought he was referring to Sunday, so that our use of "the Lord's Day" as a term for Sunday comes from this verse. There is no Scripture passage that specifically teaches that the sabbath has been transferred from one day to another.

It seems most likely that the shift from Saturday to Sunday was gradual, and took place along with the change from a mostly Jewish church to a mostly Gentile one. The early church fathers generally viewed sabbath as a Jewish observance, and the Lord's Day as the proper Christian observance. For example, Ignatius wrote in the early 100's A.D., describing Christians with a Jewish background as those who “have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death” (Magnesians 9 )

[note: Magnesians is a letter written to the church at Magnesia by Ignatius, a church father, also called Theophorus.] (NOT a Scriptural Reference)

A person's decision concerning sabbath observance probably hinges on the question of how we view the entire Old Testament. If all of it is still binding on us, then so is the sabbath. If there are parts that are no longer binding because they were directed specifically to the Jewish nation, or because they were for ritual purposes, then the sabbath is open for discussion. No matter what position a person takes, it is important to recognize that God has a claim to all of my time. When I give Him one day of the week, it reminds me that He owns all seven!

 

[followjesus]

that the wonderful thing about truth it dose not set anything aside.
.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace Galatians 5

that dose not mean, continue in your own understanding, or religions understanding. it mean you have no authority in the body. and god works among you because of this verse.

5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith---Galatians 3



the truth set you free , to have freedom .
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.Galatians 2


what action did you earn righteousness, if you saved by a saviour.

and if it came as a gift. why do you now think it is an action.

17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

"the truth set you free , to have freedom ."

the thing is though thats totally wrong according to Jesus Christ, and paul.

John 8:31-34 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF YE CONTINUE IN MY WORD, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever COMMITETH SIN IS THE SERVANT of SIN"

Pauls version of freedom from sin.

Romans 6:16-18 "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants TO OBEY, HIS SERVANTS YE ARE are to whom ye obey; WHETHER OF SIN UNTO DEATH, or OF OBEDIENCE UNTO RIGHTEUSNESS? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but YE HAVE OBEYED FROM THE HEART THAT FORM OF DOCTRINE THAT WAS DELIVERED YOU .BIENG THEN MADE FREE FROM SIN , ye became the SERVANTS OF righteousness."

Jesus and paul agree but your version seem as if its chopped up verses and misconstrued theology, i might be foolish ...BUUUUT imna Go with Jesus on this one and Just go ahead and stick With the true Gospel thats accomplished sooooo much for me. but thanks for the help on that..


is it freedom from obeying God that you are claiming? or freedom from serving the Will of satan ( sin) ? and Notice that Jesus said that to those who believed on Him....

 

[followjesus]

OK - let us put aside all (imagined) malice and deceitfulness and start with Grace777 repeated posts !
So we all believe in what 'Jesus has done for us 'on the cross ...since we know that none of us are going anywhere without Him ! We love and thank Him for all He has done for us, which brings us all 'to Christ' !
Now we are 'in Christ what do we do ? Here is where it all falls apart and we start seeing things differently - Why ?
Some say 'do nothing and rest in His finished work - others say ' imitate and follow Him in order to be conformed to His image. So here we are....constantly arguing as to who is right ! are you with me so far or do you have a better understanding of our situation ? let's start at the bottom to sort this out !

its 2 different faiths. Im convinced that I myself cant say anything to bruce that will bring him anywhere but the gospel of grace as taught by the authors He quotes. im not saying you cant but ive argued with Him for a year and his response has always been the same to grab the teachers he follows quotes and try to explain why the gospel, has nothing to do with Jesus Gospel......Im convinced it is the Gospel. I pray that someone else can somehow say things in a different way to Him that may click with Him so He understands. I am too frustrated which Just ends up this same way again, for over a year.

My personal solution was about 6 months ago to ask Him to go to different grace posts where Peeps are wanting to Hear expounding on " grace" and How it rules over Gods word, hinestly its offensive to me when Jesus Word is ommited and the gospel is re created. its not an excuse for me arguing with him, i always end up ignoring Him for a month or so and then thinking maybe Hell have a different perspective, but it never pans out. Ive said many times if He wants to talk about fishing, or anything other than doctrine im good woith that, Our faiths dont jive its oil and water. and i feel as if its just disruptive in the forum to contimually have the same arguments.


I Love your good Heart and attemt at reconciling the issue, and I hope he will engage with you given your wonderful offer there, but if i get involved itll be an argument again lol my bad but just speaking from experience.

 

[Grace777x70]

To bring the malice and slander down to a minimum - I will post this again to the deceitful lies that people who believe in Christ do nothing. I have repeatedly said that right believing ( just like Jesus said to do ) will bring right thinking which will bring right godly living. I have quoted Titus 2:11-12 at least over 100x times.


I don't chafe at the term "our doing". We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.

What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.

Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.

Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ. The word "rest" can bring the connotations that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.

I won't speak for the others but as far as works or fruit go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works/fruit" of a believer.

Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.

Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15

The life of the Vine supplies the "sap"needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action. - we are fighting the good fight of faith

Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

There is a vast difference between "us" doing things and the Lord doing things through and in us.

We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is another post that I have posted a few times in the past and hopefully it will be a blessing to some.

I believe it is the accurate hearing of Christ Himself and what He has already done by His grace and love that brings true faith which has as it's own fruit - obedience - which is to believe.

Right believing in what Christ has already done releases His empowering grace within us to live godly in this present world.

Some get that disobedience is not obeying because of some translations which says..

Hebrews 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

This word for "disobedience" is really "unbelief" in Greek in Hebrews 4:6. To not believe in the finished work of Christ for living and salvation is in fact disobedience.

That's why the gospel is often called "the obedience of faith". Even good moral living law-keeping Jewish priests came to be "obedient to the faith."

Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.

 

[beta]

its 2 different faiths. Im convinced that I myself cant say anything to bruce that will bring him anywhere but the gospel of grace as taught by the authors He quotes. im not saying you cant but ive argued with Him for a year and his response has always been the same to grab the teachers he follows quotes and try to explain why the gospel, has nothing to do with Jesus Gospel......Im convinced it is the Gospel. I pray that someone else can somehow say things in a different way to Him that may click with Him so He understands. I am too frustrated which Just ends up this same way again, for over a year.

My personal solution was about 6 months ago to ask Him to go to different grace posts where Peeps are wanting to Hear expounding on " grace" and How it rules over Gods word, hinestly its offensive to me when Jesus Word is ommited and the gospel is re created. its not an excuse for me arguing with him, i always end up ignoring Him for a month or so and then thinking maybe Hell have a different perspective, but it never pans out. Ive said many times if He wants to talk about fishing, or anything other than doctrine im good woith that, Our faiths dont jive its oil and water. and i feel as if its just disruptive in the forum to contimually have the same arguments.


I Love your good Heart and attemt at reconciling the issue, and I hope he will engage with you given your wonderful offer there, but if i get involved itll be an argument again lol my bad but just speaking from experience.

Friend, I am in exactly the same situation you are in and so do not expect a better result....keep hoping, but God will have to work a miracle here.
I have asked the question what we are to do now we are in Christ and the answer is much the same - 'rest in His finished work'.
As I understand this it was His 'earthly mission that finished with /in His death, there was still His 'spiritual work to come and teach us how to continue in OUR spiritual new man/woman. Jesus is still teaching TODAY those who will hear Him...He and His Father work hitherto ! We should not think that for us all stopped and finished at the cross !