Not By Works

[MattforJesus]

Christians can be anyone, Sons/daughters are of God

I know a witch who also claims to be a Christian

But does this person claim Jesus as Lord and Savior,or as a good teacher,and ascended Master.The person is obviously in to the power of nature,witchcraft.

There are people of the occult that hold unto an occult interpretation of the Bible,spiritual evolution.

To claim to be a Christian is not a Christian,if they view the Bible from a viewpoint of the occult,for they will say Christian for they follow Christ,but they will not follow Him as Lord and Savior,but as a good teacher in spiritual enlightement,which is not the right viewpoint.

You do not seem mainstream Christianity confessing witchcraft in their Church,and if someone claims to be a witch,and follow Christ,it highly likely they do not view Him in the right light,but as a good teacher in spiritual enlightenment.

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes, we're hidden with Christ in God. Yes without Him we can do nothing. Yes, He created us, yes we're nothing without Him. Yes, He gets all the glory. It's His righteousness we walk in. It's His fruit we bear.

So what does this all look like? Obviously we are here on earth and God our Father is in heaven and so is Jesus, He's at the right hand of God.

The one who lives within us is the Holy Spirit. He leads us and guides us into all truth. He gifts us as He wills, the fruit we produce is His fruit.

He speaks not of His own....

John 16:13-15But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

This is how Jesus lives in us. When Paul said he was crucified with Christ, he's talking about his old man, the old Phariseeic Saul. He's dead and he's now a new creation in Christ. So his old self is dead, but his new self is living which is where Christ now dwells spiritually through the power of the Holy Spirit. So while Paul lives the new life in Christ he talks about living this new life by faith in the Son of God who loves him and gave His life for him.

I'll emphasize the part you didn't. Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Cool...it all sounds good to me...

 

[dcontroversal]

The finished work of Christ does not recreate the world and the way it operates. Christ told us He finished, He did not change. Innocent blood was always required for atonement. God never gave any man the power to do this on his own, it has always been by the mercy of God. God has always been against evil and God protectsn His own from ones who do evil to them. If you are under the blood of Christ for salvation you go to Christ with repentance for your sin and it is wiped out, but if you go to Christ in rebellion claiming sin and the right to harm God's people with lies, theft, or gossip then God will protect His own from you.

It doesn't depend on what you did yesterday, it depends on what you do today.

No, actually it depended on what I did like 40 plus years ago when I exercised saving faith....I was saved then, am saved now and will be saved unto the day of redemption......sealed, justified and sanctified positionally in Christ forever......nice try, but my works do not embellish the finished works of Christ on my behalf!

 

[dcontroversal]

Okay, can you tell me WHY you think our works gain us, or keeps us our salvation?

Baggage from the false religions......

 

[Desertsrose]

For true Christians they are simply a by-product of the life of Christ in us.

This makes us sound like a factory production line.
Some people think God turns dogs, pigs and goats into sheep.

Nope. People are what they are. God calls His sheep and His sheep hear him.
I think the reality is we do not understand existance or the Lord very well.

We think we choose so much but our choice is very small when compared to
the Lords ways.

But certain groups cannot stand the idea sheep are sheep and some are goats
no matter what happens. But look at the world. Goats are born goats, and sheep
are born sheep. Do we know what is what and how it all works out? Only God
does but it appears the interplay between what can be and what is is always in
the hands of the King.

Hi Peter,

Can you explain what you mean about goats being born goats and sheep being born sheep. I'm not sure what you're saying here and don't want to misunderstand you.

We're all born goats, but turn into God's sheep through the new birth, but I'm not sure if you're referring to that or not.

 

[dcontroversal]

You sure get confused easily. We are to do works. But not for the purpose of gaining salvation or keeping salvation. That is NOT why we're commanded to do works.. We are commanded to do works for the purpose of showing God's love to others. It's a pretty simple concept to understand, really.

The problem is you actually have to be saved to understand the word.....when one believes a working for dogma, which is a false gospel of a different kind, one that is double cursed and no power..........explains a lot as to why the workers for have missed the boat..!

 

[dcontroversal]

Glad to see you made it ok!

Thanks bro....and one week in to 4 week trip.....glad I have eternal life in Jesus based upon faith into his completed works

 

[dcontroversal]

Yeah, well
With almost 15,000 posts, I think Tourist is an expert!

And you get offended when people make snide remarks directed at you........hilarious!

 

[dcontroversal]

Nobody is saved without grace. Even the OT believers were saved by Grace. Through Faith. For there is no other way by which man can be saved.

Yet you embellish it with works or adherance to a set of laws or rules..... Galatians 1 and 3

 

[dcontroversal]

You are completely missing the whole point and obviously not understanding what is really being said. No place is it said by anyone that I have seen that we don't "repent" or that we lay around and do nothing.

I will say this again as I have for now about the 20th time. Hopefully it will be a blessing to someone.

Good works that the Lord does in and through us as we participate in these with Him are a fruit of His life being manifested - they do NOT create nor maintain salvation as in being one spirit with the Lord.

Good works are done because we are already saved - they do not create salvation.

I don't chafe at the term "our doing" as in doing good works because it is a response to the life of God in us.

We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.

What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.

Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.

Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ. The word "rest" can bring the connotations that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.

I won't speak for the others but as far as works or fruit go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works/fruit" of a believer.

Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.

Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15

The life of the Vine supplies the "sap"needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action. - we are fighting the good fight of faith

Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

There is a vast difference between "us" doing things and the Lord doing things through and in us.

We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

They always assume this or flat lie and accuse us of this belief......no wonder John called the working for Pharisees a generation of snakes and vipers!

 

[dcontroversal]

For the sake of those reading along who must be totally confused unless they're quasi theologians....


Just answer this:

ARE WE TO DO WORKS OR NOT?


Please answer with a simple YES or NO.

(I would have no difficulty in answering this question or any other question VERY CLEARLY, let's see if YOU can)

See your question is deceptive....do we do works to get, keep or maintain salvation.....that is your real question.....the answer no.....salvation is a once for all act based upon faith......

 

[dcontroversal]

Fran, Jesus already has saved us. If what you say about daily salvation is true, that means Christ has to die daily to save us. And that IS NOT TRUE.

Amen Blue....a present continuing result from a PAST COMPLETED ACTION.....now that is biblical!

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus knows we cannot keep His commands. That's why He only asks us to TRY our best.

Paul was clear in Romans....the law stops the mouths of ever human and deems th whole world guilty....because NO ONE CAN KEEP THE LAW 24/7/365.....BREAK ONE SMALL POINT = GUILTY OF THE WHOLE......exactly why works will never save, keep saved or embellish salvation.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Fran, once again you misunderstand me. I've never said that we can just sit back and let God do it all for us. Obviously we have to be proactive and do our part. I believe that we DO need to do works because it is required of us, to show love for God and others.

You say works don't save us. I agree. They don't. So HOW can they KEEP us saved if they DON'T save us to begin with?

The dinner you make for your neighbor won't keep you saved. The lawn you mow for a disabled person won't keep you saved. These things are good works, but they are NOT to be done in order to keep salvation. You're trusting in the works you do, to keep you saved. The ONLY thing that keeps you saved, is JESUS, and your faith and belief in Him.

Nowhere in the bible does God say, "your works have saved you".. He says, "Your FAITH has saved you". So WHY don't you have faith that your salvation is assured, but by JESUS and NOT works?

I would not waste my breath or time....."workers for" will ride that horse straight to the pit after being placed into the plenteous in number grouping that go before Jesus boasting of their works....Galatians is clear....fools and bewitched<--- applied u to all that blend faith and works for salvation or to remain saved!.....no need to cast your pearls.....

 

[dcontroversal]

a crab I caught on a beach in Au

 

[Grace777x70]

Thanks bro....and one week in to 4 week trip.....glad I have eternal life in Jesus based upon faith into his completed works

Did you get any fish yet? I love fishing.

 

[dcontroversal]

No one is disputing that one sin is any different than another.


I could deny that my eyes are brown. And that would be the truth, because they aren't brown. They're green/ blue..lol


You CAN deny something if it isn't true.. BUT denying Christ will get you in a whole lotta trouble because He IS true..

And YOU are the one who just called yourself a total moron. No one else here has referred to you that way.

Nor is anyone saying a little sin is ok....some of these people cannot read, or live their lives in assumption-ville.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Did you get any fish yet? I love fishing.

Ate fish a few times hahhah barrumundi is my favorite....haha and prawns.....fishing kinda sucked...weather front and was cold so....not so much bro haha

 

[Katy-follower]

Right.
We do our best
Jesus does the rest.

There is no condemnation for those who love the Lord.

To avoid any misunderstanding, can you confirm who you're referring to as "those who love the Lord"?

I ask because one can profess to be a christian, have a zeal, and profess to love the Lord, but not actually be IN Christ, as is evidenced by the scriptures that tell us on judgment day many religious people will say "Lord, Lord"... but He will say He never knew any of them. They professed to be christians, but were never truly saved.

Romans 8:1: "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus"

Those who are IN Christ are the ones that are no longer condemned.

Only bringing this up to avoid any misunderstanding.

 

[Grace777x70]

Nor is anyone saying a little sin is ok....some of these people cannot read, or live their lives in assumption-ville.....

It's ironic we grace lovers that are supposed to love sinning so much are the ones that say that malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ is just like living a homosexual lifestyle - in that it is sinning.

They are all works of the flesh and in the same lists together. They all bring destruction of some sort to us while on this earth.

go figure eh?....Religion is just so stupid!