Not By Works

[FranC]

You DON'T believe in eternal salvation?!!! View attachment 169847

No wonder you're so confused.. LOL

Just what do you think Jesus died on the cross for? Our EARTHLY salvation? NOPE. He died so that we may have eternal life. Read John 3:16..

And exactly HOW is eternal salvation an "unbiblical concept"?

Oddly enough Blue,
Yes, Jesus also died for our earthly salvation.

But no more lessons here.
You could look it up yourself.
Or you could just keep on believing what you believe.

 

[FranC]

Charles Manson could profess to be a Christian, have zeal and say he loves the Lord. BUT we all know how evil he is, so it would be highly unlikely that he'd ever become a Christian, because he is the epitome of evil incarnate..

Read the verse that says, "not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will know me".

How about

A TREE SHALL BE KNOWN BY ITS FRUIT.

 

[FranC]

He's obviously not online at the moment. Or is afk...

He'll answer when he can.
He seems to enjoy posting.

 

[blue_ladybug]

You didn't answer my question. How is eternal salvation an unbiblical concept?


You demand answers from US, yet refuse to answer any of OUR questions..


Keep on believing that your works will save you, Fran.. I'll pray for you..

Oddly enough Blue,
Yes, Jesus also died for our earthly salvation.

But no more lessons here.
You could look it up yourself.
Or you could just keep on believing what you believe.

 

[FranC]

We have a clear Romans 3:8 situation going on here:

And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

The good news Fran is that you can still accept the free and completed work of Jesus Christ for Salvation. I pray your heart isn't totally hardened to that truth. In Jesus Name.

Thanks. I appreciate your concern.
But please don't stay awake nights worrying about me.

 

[FranC]

You didn't answer my question. How is eternal salvation an unbiblical concept?


You demand answers from US, yet refuse to answer any of OUR questions..


Keep on believing that your works will save you, Fran.. I'll pray for you..

Blue, It seems like you're reading along. We covered this already pages ago.

Let me know if you really want to get into this.
It's not like I have all day to sit here and it's lunchtime here.
I'll be back later.

IF YOU'RE REALLY interested, I will get into why eterrnal salvtion is NOT biblical.

 

[PeterJens]

Matt 7 the summary of the sermon on the mount.
What is the message? Do lots of things and not the things that lead to death.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!
Matt 7:23

The whole sermon on the mount is behavioural commands. Do this, do not do that.
It is not about opinion or options, but what Jesus expects in His followers.

Now I find it odd, when this is as plain as day the discussion is about those who trust
in Christ verses those who follow the commands or attempt to.

It is odd because we are called to do both. Now in all our ups and downs there will be
variations in this walk. Jesus is very clear, those who obey His commands are His friends.

And why would we not obey, to love those we meet, to love our enemies, to feel and see
the struggles of our humanity and how we are blessed in all we do.

So let us encourage one another to believe in Christ and follow, because there is not other way.

 

[Grace777x70]

The non-religious are really smart Grace.
Not stupid like the religious.

Funny that it's the non-religious that throw all the insults around.
I don't see any of the "religious" throwing insults around.

THE TREE IS KNOWS BY ITS FRUIT.

So, people that say slanderously that "you do not obey nor believe the words of Jesus" - that is a fruit of what?

Also - those that obey Christ are those that believe on Him for salvation.

Those who obey Christ also that believe Jesus is not a liar when He says the Holy Spirit will be in you forever. Those who obey Christ are those that believe He is not a liar when He said "I give them eternal life and no one can pluck them out of My hand nor My Father's hand.

Those that obey Christ are those who believe Jesus when He said "None that come to me will I lose". Those that obey Christ are those that believe Him when He said "I will never leave nor forsake you."

Those who obey Jesus are those that believe this scripture below and fulfill the will of the Father.

John 6:39-40 (NASB)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

[SUP]40 [/SUP] "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."


The fruit of Christ's life in us will bear His life being manifested in the love being demonstrated to others. ( good works ) It is a fruit of Him in us - not a requirement for salvation.

 

[PeterJens]

on judgment day many religious people will say "Lord, Lord"... but He will say He never knew any of them. They professed to be christians, but were never truly saved.

And YOU are the one who just called yourself a total moron.

ETERNAL life CANNOT be lost UNLESS the one who has it, denies Jesus outright..

That is called works-righteousness and it is anti-Christ in it's belief system.

The characteristic of the spiritually immature is that they are unable to discern between good and evil


.....The flesh will seek to produce the most plausible arguments in justification of its own illegitimate activities, even though these activities are only what the Bible calls “dead works” (Hebrews 6:1; 9:14) and not the “good works” which are truly the work of God.


“Good works” are those that have their origin in Jesus Christ, as Christ’s activity is released through your body because you present it to Him as a living sacrifice. You do this only by faith that expresses total dependence, as opposed to Adamic independence."

Honestly Peter from some of what you say, I think you only partially trust what He did. You think the rest is up to you and what you can do to help it along. But it isn't.

And I am no better than anyone in the world. Better off, but not better.

All works-based and works-righteousness belief systems operate from this very same principle which is why they are antagonistic against the truth that Christ alone is our righteousness and that it is a gift by grace through faith in Christ's work alone.

Yes, we are supposed to obey Jesus. But He NEVER said to do those good works to keep our salvation.

I wonder who is judging who here?
It strikes me some feel a group appear to follow and believe in Christ but are not saved.
If this group did not obey and follow Christ, they would show they really believed!!!!

Wonder who would suggest such a thing as this?

 

[Grace777x70]

One can
profess to be a Christian
have zeal
and profess to love the Lord

but not actually be IN Christ.


I don't know. I'm stupid as Grace said, but that sure sounds llike A CHRISTIAN to me.
I'm REALLY GLAD no one here makes up the rules, but our great God does.

I never called you stupid. Please stop the slander. Thank you.

We can think that we are qualified by God because we do good works but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are Christians. Every religion of the world has as it's core beliefs - good living morals as well as doing good deeds. - none of these mean that Christ is in them.

When believers feel that they must "perform" to qualify for being loved or blessed by God, then we become our own source of strength or grace instead of God.

 

[PeterJens]

The drip drip idea is good works can be evil, and those doing things for the wrong
reasons are dooming themselves to hell. These are not biblical ideas and simply untrue.

God takes delight in good deeds and behaviour no matter who does it, and dislikes, hates
those who show religious fervour but behave in an evil way.

Sin has always been the issue with God, and the answer is Christ, communion and walking
in the Spirit, which changes us so we can walk righteously.

Listen to Paul in Ephesians
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
Eph 2:1-2

You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Eph 4:22-23

Good deeds are the fruit of the new self.

Somehow a division is being created so rather than saying Amen, people want to
make sure they are doing things for the right reasons, when in putting on the new
self this has already been done.

The truth is the followers of this idea cannot walk righteously, or believe they are
clean or holy or pure, so already assume everything is compromised so all good deeds
could actually be evil. This pollutes the simplicity of loving people by helping them
from an open heart.

 

[Grace777x70]

All works-based belief systems are anti-Christ in their core beliefs. They are attempting to create and maintain their own righteousness by what they do or don't do. They live from the elementary principles of this world and this shows in their humanistic belief systems and self-attempts at "doing things" for life and salvation.

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The law means "what they do or don't do" for creating and maintaining righteousness. The law of Moses is a manifestation of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We were never meant to eat from that tree. We are to eat from the tree of Life which is Christ Himself.

( Notice I did NOT say - that good works are not manifested as Christ's life is flowing from us to others. )

These good works are a fruit of His life in us and they will come as we "behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror." 2 Cor. 3:17-18

All works-based works-righteousness humanistic beliefs systems are based on eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

 

[Grace777x70]

I wonder who is judging who here?
It strikes me some feel a group appear to follow and believe in Christ but are not saved.
If this group did not obey and follow Christ, they would show they really believed!!!!

Wonder who would suggest such a thing as this?[/QUOTE]

The sky is still blue...

 

[PennEd]

Does a bull ever get tired of running through the China shop?

 

[PeterJens]

It's ironic we grace lovers that are supposed to love sinning so much are the ones that say that malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ is just like living a homosexual lifestyle - in that it is sinning.

They are all works of the flesh and in the same lists together. They all bring destruction of some sort to us while on this earth.

go figure eh?....Religion is just so stupid!

Religion is just so stupid!

According to g7 everyone he considers is following religion are stupid.
You heard it here.

 

[Seohce]

Hi Seohce,

When I say that works do not save us, I am talking about PHYSICAL works. Like mowing a neighbor's lawn or shoveling their driveway, making a dinner and taking it to a home-bound person, etc etc.. Those things ARE nice, but they will not save us.

Now, on the flip side of that, I believe that *some* of our SPIRITUAL works don't save us, either. For example, praying does not get us saved. Nor does it keep us saved, and it won't get us into heaven. And reading our bibles, that doesn't save us either. Words on a page in a book don't save us. Attending church doesn't save us, either. Singing hymns and listening to a sermon does not save us. They may help us in our spiritual walk, but they don't having saving power.

What DOES save us is our faith and belief in Jesus. And through that faith and belief, He grants us His grace. So there it is in a nut shell. Grace, faith, belief. THESE things are what saves us, they are what keeps us saved, and they are what will get us into heaven. [/QUOTE

This is a Christian Forum and i suppose that mostly on this forum are Christians who believe in God and our Lord Jesus and therefore have FAITH. I'm a believer of the truth in Christ, in the word of truth which is the Gospel of our salvation.

Reading from romans 10:8-17, can i just ask you your opinion or view on this: If there are no workers or servants of God (refering to those in the church or the body of Christ)(1cor ch 12, eph 4:11-13 & 5:23, 1cor 3:9 etc.)would you and i have faith and therefore be saved?

Were you saved without anybody preaching to you the truth of the Gospel?

Do you not consider your purpose of discussing the bible with other believers a good work that may bring salvation to those you are discussing with and those that are just reading along?(1 tim 4:16).

Are we not to serve our God should we get into heaven or the new Jerusalem Just asking for your thought on these things because i really don't like to argue. Thanks.

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

It's ironic we grace lovers that are supposed to love sinning so much are the ones that say that malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ is just like living a homosexual lifestyle - in that it is sinning.

They are all works of the flesh and in the same lists together. They all bring destruction of some sort to us while on this earth.

go figure eh?....Religion is just so stupid!

Quote:



Religion are those beliefs that think it is ok to slander others in the body of Christ and that they are NOT like those filthy homosexuals in my own malice and slandering.

Religion beliefs are those that slanderously accuse others and call them names such as - a heretic, demonic, lovers of sinning, haters of God's word, haters of those that walk righteously...and other garbage.

Religion shows it's ugly head when it then with the same mouth says "We are to walk righteously and with purity of heart."

James 3:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be this way.


That is why religion itself is stupid and foolish. It makes people do stupid things and believe stupid things.

Galatians 3:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[PeterJens]

I never called you stupid. Please stop the slander. Thank you.


We can think that we are qualified by God because we do good works but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are Christians. Every religion of the world has as it's core beliefs - good living morals as well as doing good deeds. - none of these mean that Christ is in them.


When believers feel that they must "perform" to qualify for being loved or blessed by God, then we become our own source of strength or grace instead of God.

Please stop calling people who follow a different view from you stupid.

Religion is just so stupid!

It is not a slander to actually quote what you have written, and what you obviously
believe. anti-Christ you call works righteousness.

That is called works-righteousness and it is anti-Christ in it's belief system.

And this continual idea of Slander when as I have shown here it is actually not true.

Now who is condemning those in the body of Christ, and who is desiring to Praise the
Lord and live in peace with their brothers and sisters, to encourage them to go deep
into the Lord and follow and do the very things Jesus commanded us to do?

 

[PeterJens]

That is why religion itself is stupid and foolish. It makes people do stupid things and believe stupid things.

So now your targets are stupid and foolish

Sounds like things are going down hill at the moment.

 

[FranC]

Matt 7 the summary of the sermon on the mount.
What is the message? Do lots of things and not the things that lead to death.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!
Matt 7:23

The whole sermon on the mount is behavioural commands. Do this, do not do that.
It is not about opinion or options, but what Jesus expects in His followers.

Now I find it odd, when this is as plain as day the discussion is about those who trust
in Christ verses those who follow the commands or attempt to.

It is odd because we are called to do both. Now in all our ups and downs there will be
variations in this walk. Jesus is very clear, those who obey His commands are His friends.

And why would we not obey, to love those we meet, to love our enemies, to feel and see
the struggles of our humanity and how we are blessed in all we do.

So let us encourage one another to believe in Christ and follow, because there is not other way.

Simply and perfectly said.

AMEN!

(and I dare to add: God is the judge, not anyone on this thread)