Not By Works

[phil36]

Hey Phil...I trust things are well with you and the family.

Is Terry Virgo one of the elders in the New Frontiers? I have listened to a number of his messages and thought they were great.

Hi Grace7,

Thanks and all is well, I pray you and yours are also well. Yeah Terry virgo started New Frontiers (I think?) Another name that some might recognise from New Frontiers is Adrian Warnock a well known blogger (well in the UK). I'm not Charismatic but I like Warnocks blog.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hi Grace7,

Thanks and all is well, I pray you and yours are also well. Yeah Terry virgo started New Frontiers (I think?) Another name that some might recognise from New Frontiers is Adrian Warnock a well known blogger (well in the UK). I'm not Charismatic but I like Warnocks blog.

Thank you.

I am not familiar with Adrian Warnock but Terry Virgo I would definitely recommend for anyone to listen to. He was one of the first people the Lord sent me to listen to about the gospel of the grace of God in Christ.

I still get his teachings from time to time when he sends them out.

Have a great rest of your night.

 

[BillG]

In house group last night I realised something that we often miss. It is easy to say of ministry,
they should have said this or done that, I could do much better.

In reality ministry can only be measured by its impact on the audience, because that is why it
is there. And it is about getting alongside people, putting ones arms around them, and helping
them grow and get stronger in the Lord.

When we first came to our church, I had a suicidal depressed wife, a new job, a house to do
up and few friends. It was a hot cooker. Over the years my wife has grown, the kids blossomed
and the Lord blessed, and I have learnt to not seek to be fed but to see what I can offer others,
because there are so many gifted beautiful people who just need a nudge, a kind word, some
encouragement, and they will take that step faith, and see the Lord move.

But we have to be weak to help the weak, we have to be needy to help the needy, we need to
know pain and sorrow so we can help people go through the depths and come out the other side.
So the people who want desperately to speak and share often are the last people who should.
Ironic, because sharing is about this being there and going through it.

So you are probably one of the best to help and minister to others, God bless you.

That is so true my friend.
We need to allow God to work in our weakness and the pain that goes with it.
What use would be if he just took it all away? It would be of no use at all.

How can we put an arm around another that just holds them where they are if we haven't experienced it?

How can we help those who are weak if we don't understand what being weak is.

How can we help the needy if we don't know what it means to need.

If we understand that we were/are the people that God has given us as, a result of him working in us and we have trusted him
we will walk in that so that those going through the same will trust us and be open and honest.

I thank Jesus that God has worked in you and your family.

God is good.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do you understand the term "proper righteousness" as used by Luther, EG?

no what is that.

 

[JIMBO43]

its funny though. I don't think Jesus says shut up as such. Not today anyway.

For me though he does say it but not with those words.

Goodness knows how many times God has said to me when he is trying to talk me when I'm not listening, something like this/

"Bill just quiet your mind, lets talk, now what part of what I am trying to talk to you about do you not get? Let's talk it out, you wanna talk.

How can I say no? I can't

yes your so logical lol or shall i say God is so logical... in a calming manner.. how com i still get mad when scotaland beat england.. or shal i sad mad at certain players not performing.. dipsticks.. lol

 

[JIMBO43]

That is so true my friend.
We need to allow God to work in our weakness and the pain that goes with it.
What use would be if he just took it all away? It would be of no use at all.

How can we put an arm around another that just holds them where they are if we haven't experienced it?

How can we help those who are weak if we don't understand what being weak is.

How can we help the needy if we don't know what it means to need.

If we understand that we were/are the people that God has given us as, a result of him working in us and we have trusted him
we will walk in that so that those going through the same will trust us and be open and honest.

I thank Jesus that God has worked in you and your family.

God is good.

when ya say weakness which one do i have coz... you say your a teacher yet you get naffed when rebuked ?

 

[Magenta]

last Sunday someone told me that the night before he watched a movie about this guy.
I can remember now what is called.

Do know what it is?

Angus Buchan's Ordinary People (2012)

Angus Buchan's Ordinary People (2012) - IMDb <= Link

 

[BillG]

yes your so logical lol or shall i say God is so logical... in a calming manner.. how com i still get mad when scotaland beat england.. or shal i sad mad at certain players not performing.. dipsticks.. lol

Funny indeed.

Me the same, although I must admit you must be better than me in the heat of the battle, you only say dipsticks.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is not answering the question. And the answer is behaviour matters.
Faith alone is not enough, it needs to be reflected in a faithful loving walk.

if anyone asks, this is self righteousness, it states my behavior will determine if I make it to heaven or not, my faith is not enough.

Of course, Peter will claim he does not teach works, yet that is not what he just proclaimed.

In this term Peter believes we will be saved by which to of righteousness which we have done, are doing and will do, which takes gods mercy out of the picture, because the only people who need mercy are those who have not earned it by our behavior.

I do not know why you cannot admit this simple point. The law of Christ is
the law of love. If you had met people soaked in hatred and animosity, you
would know how profound Jesus is and His walk.

your slander is beyond imagination Peter, I understand this. I would say better than you do, because I experience gods love, I do not try to earn it by my behavior like you do (if you try to deny it, just read the first part of your post I am responding to where you said behavior, not just faith, matters).

I love like God loved because he loved me first, and I have experienced this love beyond comprehension. And I have met people with hatred and animosity, there are quite a few in here, but they can't touch us Peter. Now will you please do what so many people have asked you kindly to do, and STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHAT THEY BELIEVE.

thanks.

We can get hyper sensitive to issues that God is not worried about, and miss
the very ones His heart breaks over, people being lost, alone without even one
friend in the whole world who cares about them. We have a world full of people
yet loneliness and isolation, depression and anxiety are the biggest problems people
face.

And you want to ask me to repent about your unusual view on security in Christ.
We need to learn how to reach out and help people belong and know we love them
and God loves them at a level it would blow their minds. The cross is stunning, enough
to knock anyone over if they see it, properly.

Thats the point Peter, you can not help people if you are not telling them about God, and give them false security in self, telling them their behavior matters, that if they do not shape up God will ship them out.

in trying to help people, your destroying them

 

[BillG]

when ya say weakness which one do i have coz... you say your a teacher yet you get naffed when rebuked ?

I have many weskness's and getting naffed off is one them, for which I have apologised in previous posts and have asked when I get naffed off please let me know.

Not sure I've ever said I'm a teacher though, mind you if I did does that negate me being a teacher?

 

[blue_ladybug]

*Doesn't think she wants to know what "naffed off" means*

LOL

 

[BillG]

when ya say weakness which one do i have coz... you say your a teacher yet you get naffed when rebuked ?

Mate im not gonna tell you what weakness you have, that's between you and God, and not you and me. The plank I have in my own doesn't allow to beyond what I can see.

 

[BillG]

Angus Buchan's Ordinary People (2012)

Angus Buchan's Ordinary People (2012) - IMDb <= Link

The gut who planted potatoes?

 

[PeterJens]

if anyone asks, this is self righteousness, it states my behavior will determine if I make it to heaven or not, my faith is not enough.

Of course, Peter will claim he does not teach works, yet that is not what he just proclaimed.

In this term Peter believes we will be saved by which to of righteousness which we have done, are doing and will do, which takes gods mercy out of the picture, because the only people who need mercy are those who have not earned it by our behavior.



your slander is beyond imagination Peter, I understand this. I would say better than you do, because I experience gods love, I do not try to earn it by my behavior like you do (if you try to deny it, just read the first part of your post I am responding to where you said behavior, not just faith, matters).

I love like God loved because he loved me first, and I have experienced this love beyond comprehension. And I have met people with hatred and animosity, there are quite a few in here, but they can't touch us Peter. Now will you please do what so many people have asked you kindly to do, and STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHAT THEY BELIEVE.

thanks.




Thats the point Peter, you can not help people if you are not telling them about God, and give them false security in self, telling them their behavior matters, that if they do not shape up God will ship them out.

in trying to help people, your destroying them

EG - God bless you.

Interesting sentiment, I am destroying people. lol. I suppose you are building
me up in the faith !!!!

 

[BillG]

if anyone asks, this is self righteousness, it states my behavior will determine if I make it to heaven or not, my faith is not enough.

Of course, Peter will claim he does not teach works, yet that is not what he just proclaimed.

In this term Peter believes we will be saved by which to of righteousness which we have done, are doing and will do, which takes gods mercy out of the picture, because the only people who need mercy are those who have not earned it by our behavior.



your slander is beyond imagination Peter, I understand this. I would say better than you do, because I experience gods love, I do not try to earn it by my behavior like you do (if you try to deny it, just read the first part of your post I am responding to where you said behavior, not just faith, matters).

I love like God loved because he loved me first, and I have experienced this love beyond comprehension. And I have met people with hatred and animosity, there are quite a few in here, but they can't touch us Peter. Now will you please do what so many people have asked you kindly to do, and STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHAT THEY BELIEVE.

thanks.




Thats the point Peter, you can not help people if you are not telling them about God, and give them false security in self, telling them their behavior matters, that if they do not shape up God will ship them out.

in trying to help people, your destroying them

Hi EG.

I actually liked PJ's response so not sure if I am next in the firing line.

I read PJ's post as saying faith is not enough but genuine faith will be reflected in our walk.

I know he didn't say it that way, he said "it needs to be reflected"

PJ correct me if you think I am wrong, I think you were saying "will be rather than needs to be"

As for me genuine faith will be reflected in our work.

 

[PeterJens]

your slander is beyond imagination Peter

Slander beyond imagination - that must be some slander, except maybe it is also
beyond words and does not actually exist. I am sure I could be deeply offended
by such an onslaught, except like horror movies that go to far, it becomes a farce.

Behaviour matters, or else Jesus would not give us commands and Paul say we
have to put off the old self and put on the new self.

Paul talks about the ways of christian living Eph 4:17-32

Now as much as we think everything is automatic, it obviously is not and we need
teachers, pastors, prophets to help guide us through Gods word.

I would express behaviour, total rebellion is rejecting faith in all its forms, each
has to work out their own discipleship walk, but without a walk there is no faith.
So maybe this rather than being the walk earns faith, a lack of a walk rejects faith.

 

[BillG]

Slander beyond imagination - that must be some slander, except maybe it is also
beyond words and does not actually exist. I am sure I could be deeply offended
by such an onslaught, except like horror movies that go to far, it becomes a farce.

Behaviour matters, or else Jesus would not give us commands and Paul say we
have to put off the old self and put on the new self.

Paul talks about the ways of christian living Eph 4:17-32

Now as much as we think everything is automatic, it obviously is not and we need
teachers, pastors, prophets to help guide us through Gods word.

I would express behaviour, total rebellion is rejecting faith in all its forms, each
has to work out their own discipleship walk, but without a walk there is no faith.
So maybe this rather than being the walk earns faith, a lack of a walk rejects faith.

Do you think a lack of walk rejects faith? I only say that based on your post about your wife and kids and how they have flourished and blossomed.

It seems that possibly thier walk wasn't where it should be, but have they rejected faith?

 

[Ariel82]

I find that question hard to answer, not because the question is wrong but because I know what I am like and what I feel about myself as a person.

Believe it or not my wife and I have were asked to lead a new ministry in our church just over 6 months ago. I love it.
But then I find myself constantly thinking, saying "God why on earth are using me, I'm a screw up"

I also have the problem of looking inwards a lot and looking at my negatives as a person, focus on that and plead to God help me.

Spending too much time looking inward makes me depressed.

Look upwards towards God and how He sees you.

I have self esteem issues too but I decided it's okay. I will take how God esteem me over my own any day.

 

[PeterJens]

Do you think a lack of walk rejects faith? I only say that based on your post about your wife and kids and how they have flourished and blossomed.

It seems that possibly thier walk wasn't where it should be, but have they rejected faith?

My family wife and kids have walked well in the Lord and have grown in faith.

A walk rejecting faith, is where you have a belief but live purely based on ones
own needs with no reference to God. The idea of loving someone just causes confusion.
People are like you or not worth talking to.

My mother has lived her whole life like this, though she went to church most of it.
Life for her is a fearfull walk of defeat and performance, where you make the
best of a difficult situation. Everything is a burden, and there is little joy except
for social adulation. This is a very barren place, especially if you meet a whole
society of people caught like this.

My granny had a living faith, and she was my light in the early years.

So if you gain faith but do not walk it, love gets frozen out and ones heart never
comes to life properly. I now wonder how this happens, but really it is we who have
the light who can help shine the way, and call people deeper and further along.

 

[Ariel82]

its funny though. I don't think Jesus says shut up as such. Not today anyway.

For me though he does say it but not with those words.

Goodness knows how many times God has said to me when he is trying to talk me when I'm not listening, something like this/

"Bill just quiet your mind, lets talk, now what part of what I am trying to talk to you about do you not get? Let's talk it out, you wanna talk.

How can I say no? I can't

I just get "Be still and KNOW that I AM GOD."