Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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What is strange to me, is how a small change, sin forgiven, extended to far,
along with I cannot lose my place can lead to such animosity not about who we
are but implying it is the worst evil possible.
My test has always been behaviour. If whatever you believe draws you closer
to walking as Jesus walked you are on the right path.
It whatever you believe means you will never reach Jesus's walk, you have gone
astray. Jesus came that we might grow up into His likeness
Paul said it like this in Ephesians
until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
Eph 4:13
we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ
Eph 4:15
put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Eph 4:24
Now asceticism will not achieve it but walking in the Spirit will, letting love
and purity work through your life, repenting & confessing sin and taking captive
every stray thought. There is no boundary or limit to the place we can reach in
Christ Jesus if you have the faith to believe Jesus and His word.
along with I cannot lose my place can lead to such animosity not about who we
are but implying it is the worst evil possible.
My test has always been behaviour. If whatever you believe draws you closer
to walking as Jesus walked you are on the right path.
It whatever you believe means you will never reach Jesus's walk, you have gone
astray. Jesus came that we might grow up into His likeness
Paul said it like this in Ephesians
until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
Eph 4:13
we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ
Eph 4:15
put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Eph 4:24
Now asceticism will not achieve it but walking in the Spirit will, letting love
and purity work through your life, repenting & confessing sin and taking captive
every stray thought. There is no boundary or limit to the place we can reach in
Christ Jesus if you have the faith to believe Jesus and His word.
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A
Works are for God's glory.
Do you only do "good" works to be paid?
Do believe you can earn your way into Heaven?
Or do you do good works to glorify God even if no one ever notice you doing them?
Would you do good works without a reward or any payment at all?
Good works are for God's glory BECAUSE we have been saved.
Why is that so hard to understand?
A plant has roots and leaves and branches and fruit.
The fruit is good works.
The Root is Jesus.
You want to make the root Jesus AND good works, BUT THAT IS A LIE.
If that isn't what you are trying to do, then why can't you understand the difference between the ROOT AND THE FRUIT OF SALVATION?
Do you only do "good" works to be paid?
Do believe you can earn your way into Heaven?
Or do you do good works to glorify God even if no one ever notice you doing them?
Would you do good works without a reward or any payment at all?
Good works are for God's glory BECAUSE we have been saved.
Why is that so hard to understand?
A plant has roots and leaves and branches and fruit.
The fruit is good works.
The Root is Jesus.
You want to make the root Jesus AND good works, BUT THAT IS A LIE.
If that isn't what you are trying to do, then why can't you understand the difference between the ROOT AND THE FRUIT OF SALVATION?
Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
It seems the works we are to walk in were already ordained by God.
When Jesus talked about works and helping the commandment who was he talking to?
Those under those laws.
Now before you jump on me I am not saying that what Jesus said in anyway shape or form is irrelevant for us.
Hebrews 10:14-18
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
As genuine beleivers God has now written his law in our hearts.
Now that being the case we will do good works because they have been written on our hearts.
If it's written on our hearts then we will do good works out of the true motive.
This motive is love.
John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
This love of God and love of others.
The reason Jesus asked us to obey him was so that world would see that we are his disciples, doing the things that Jesus has asked us to do is so that the world will see him, if they see him in us then hopefully they will want what we have and that is Jesus.
Any other motive is bad works as such.
Also to me at what point does obedience meet the pass mark?
What if I fall into a period of disobedience and Jesus comes back during that period?
If we were called to obedient 100% of the time in order to earn/keep salvation then Jesus could have just said "Shown you how to do, now go do it"
He would not need to have died.
We are saved by one thing and one thing only. Jesus in us and us in Jesus. The Holy Spirit testifies to this, to help us, he is our helper. He works in us to do good works and to continually remind us who we are.
What are we? We are children of the Father.
That being the case I feel that Jesus asked us to be obedient so the world will see the Father.
just my simple thoughts
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
It seems the works we are to walk in were already ordained by God.
When Jesus talked about works and helping the commandment who was he talking to?
Those under those laws.
Now before you jump on me I am not saying that what Jesus said in anyway shape or form is irrelevant for us.
Hebrews 10:14-18
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
As genuine beleivers God has now written his law in our hearts.
Now that being the case we will do good works because they have been written on our hearts.
If it's written on our hearts then we will do good works out of the true motive.
This motive is love.
John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
This love of God and love of others.
The reason Jesus asked us to obey him was so that world would see that we are his disciples, doing the things that Jesus has asked us to do is so that the world will see him, if they see him in us then hopefully they will want what we have and that is Jesus.
Any other motive is bad works as such.
Also to me at what point does obedience meet the pass mark?
What if I fall into a period of disobedience and Jesus comes back during that period?
If we were called to obedient 100% of the time in order to earn/keep salvation then Jesus could have just said "Shown you how to do, now go do it"
He would not need to have died.
We are saved by one thing and one thing only. Jesus in us and us in Jesus. The Holy Spirit testifies to this, to help us, he is our helper. He works in us to do good works and to continually remind us who we are.
What are we? We are children of the Father.
That being the case I feel that Jesus asked us to be obedient so the world will see the Father.
just my simple thoughts
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A
If God told you personally to do something and you dont you will be chastened.
However this thread is about eternal salvation or punishment, in which case folks need to know the difference between cause of Salvation (faith in Christ for remission of sins) and effect of Salvation (good works as lead by the Holy Spirit)
However this thread is about eternal salvation or punishment, in which case folks need to know the difference between cause of Salvation (faith in Christ for remission of sins) and effect of Salvation (good works as lead by the Holy Spirit)
Why do you equate the lack of good works to sin?
Can I as a reverse question?
Lets say a believer secretly delivers a food parcel to a family in need and a non believer does the same.
In the eyes of God who is better?
So often we look at works as the things we do but not the things we don't do.
So given the above scenario let's say the believer doesn't meet the need of the family but a non believer does?
In the eyes of God who is better?
With regards to v26 this is my understanding
sin willfully: The reference here is not to an occasional act of sin, but to a conscious rejection of God.
It is to reject Jesus full stop.
Can I as a reverse question?
Lets say a believer secretly delivers a food parcel to a family in need and a non believer does the same.
In the eyes of God who is better?
So often we look at works as the things we do but not the things we don't do.
So given the above scenario let's say the believer doesn't meet the need of the family but a non believer does?
In the eyes of God who is better?
With regards to v26 this is my understanding
sin willfully: The reference here is not to an occasional act of sin, but to a conscious rejection of God.
It is to reject Jesus full stop.
A
My son has to mow the yard.,so no beach till he finishes...
So up for auction: straw man 4: Fire proof Insurance Man, aka free ticket to Heaven guy
With this you can label anyone trying to teach the Biblical doctrin of grace, a greesy free gracer who doesn't care about godliness. He doesn't have to be born again or be lead by the Holy Spirit, all he has to be is to speak the magic words and he can earn the title "nominal Christian" we also have the accompanying patch for "carnal Christian"
His motto is "sin all you like, cuz i punched my ticket on that black train!" it's okay..if you look at it sidewise.,,it doesn't. Say HELL....come on now...we got two of the letters right, good enough?
Now this one is great buy for folks who want to cuz folks to build upon other foundation besides Christ.
You just slap it on anyone attempting to teach Biblical grace or the true message and start torching it.
Guaranteed to burn for hours and aggravate anyone with an ounce of spiritual discernment.
So up for auction: straw man 4: Fire proof Insurance Man, aka free ticket to Heaven guy
With this you can label anyone trying to teach the Biblical doctrin of grace, a greesy free gracer who doesn't care about godliness. He doesn't have to be born again or be lead by the Holy Spirit, all he has to be is to speak the magic words and he can earn the title "nominal Christian" we also have the accompanying patch for "carnal Christian"
His motto is "sin all you like, cuz i punched my ticket on that black train!" it's okay..if you look at it sidewise.,,it doesn't. Say HELL....come on now...we got two of the letters right, good enough?
Now this one is great buy for folks who want to cuz folks to build upon other foundation besides Christ.
You just slap it on anyone attempting to teach Biblical grace or the true message and start torching it.
Guaranteed to burn for hours and aggravate anyone with an ounce of spiritual discernment.
A
Not all "good" works are considered good...only those done for the right motives...
Do you do them to glorify God?
Or to get rewards or praise from God?
I was thinking of Martha and Mary. Sometimes God would rather we sit at His feet and learn like Mary, but we have folks like Martha who want God to tell others to get up and help them work instead of listening and doing what God tells them to do....which sometimes is to listen and learn.
P.s.. I figured you knew about the chastening from God, that was an attempt to deflect the false straw Man that was being made with your face attached to it.
Do you do them to glorify God?
Or to get rewards or praise from God?
I was thinking of Martha and Mary. Sometimes God would rather we sit at His feet and learn like Mary, but we have folks like Martha who want God to tell others to get up and help them work instead of listening and doing what God tells them to do....which sometimes is to listen and learn.
P.s.. I figured you knew about the chastening from God, that was an attempt to deflect the false straw Man that was being made with your face attached to it.