Not By Works

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stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
Hmmm....G777 what do you mean by this part of your post?



What happens when we sin?

How exactly are we safe in Christ forever?

How do you confront someone who is claiming to be in Christ but living a sinful lifestyle?
"All manner od sin shall be forgiven to man, but rejecting the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven: He is teaching us to walk in Love and apart from Him we can't. "For if you do not forgive neither will your Father in heaven forgive you, is in danger of rejecting the Holy Spirit... Reproving the world of sin the Holy Spirit does, and as we change not to judge and Love them in their present condition it frees them to change, as opposed to striving with them: "Only by pride comes contention."
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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You told me everything EXCEPT WHAT BELIEVE MEANS.

And you know why you cannot.
You're an intelligent person.

If you tell me what BELIEVE means, you'll have to admit that we are REQUIRED to do works.

How about being intellectually honest?

Did I ask you to explain how one is saved? (no)
Did I ask you what I'm supposed to believe IN? (no)

You AGAIN repeat that the only good work we are to do is to BELIEVE, BUT, of course, you did NOT explain what believe means.
YOU JUST like to confuse the Readers and make them THINK you did.
But YOU know you didn't.

I, on the other hand, have explained it MANY TIMES because I'm not afraid of the word or the word "WORKS".
But, apparenly YOU are.

You're Always bringing up RELIGIOUS WORKS.
So, apparently you are against good works.
That is your prerogative. I only hope those reading along understand that GOD REQUIRES GOOD WORKS.

Now, wanna try again?

WHAT DOES BELIEVE MEAN?
What does it mean when I say I BELIEVE IN JESUS??


it'll only take two sentences.
this is the 3rd or 4th time I have told you this, and it will be the last.

the greek word used in the N.T. for believe is pisteuo, which means to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit , to place confidence in.

there are more detailed at the strong's concordance site.

now, ms Bible expert, do NOT ask any one else to define what it means to believe. this is telling you what it means. except it, or take up the argument with the Bible scholars.
 
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G777, I have seen you speak of this "inner man" concept but I am not sure what you mean by it.

I know that God has an image of who He is making me into but I also see the reality of who I am now. The inner me is who I am now and the hope is that who am now will not always be but one day I will fully become the person is making me to be.

I don't believe our actions define who we are. Neither our sins or our good works define who we are. Only God and His view of us does.

We should not sin because it muddied the life giving water we are to give to this thirsty world and dims our light.
You have never heard of the inner man that is in Christ that has been created in righteousness and holiness? Here are some scriptures that speak of this new man in Christ.

2 Cor. 5:17 - says we are a new creation. This new creation is the new man in Christ.

Rom. 7:22 ; 2 Cor. 4:16 ; Eph. 3:16 ; 1 Peter 3:4 - these all speak of the inner man.

Then there are lot's of scriptures that speak about the new man in Christ = put on the new man - put on Christ..etc. Such as Eph. 2:15 & 4:24 ; Col. 3:10

I like you believe that our true identity is who God says we are because of Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and that we too have died with Him and have risen with Him to newness of life. Now we need our minds renewed to the truth of what our Lord has already done for us. We are "defined" by what He has done and says about us that is true.

Sinning is deceitful and it distorts our view of God , others and ourselves. Sinning is not participating in the life of God that is ours in Christ. We are trying to get "life and meaning" from other things instead of our true source - which is Christ Himself.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
this is the 3rd or 4th time I have told you this, and it will be the last.

the greek word used in the N.T. for believe is pisteuo, which means to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit , to place confidence in.

there are more detailed at the strong's concordance site.

now, ms Bible expert, do NOT ask any one else to define what it means to believe. this is telling you what it means. except it, or take up the argument with the Bible scholars.
Here if folks really want to study it.,.

It still says that to believe means to TRUST in Jesus,

I haven't seen one where anyone changes the word "believe" or "faith" to include obedience or doing good works.
***

Strong's Greek: 4100. πιστεύω (pisteuó) -- to believe, entrust

4100. pisteuó ►
Strong's Concordance
pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.
HELPS Word-studies
4100 pisteúō (from 4102 /pístis, "faith," derived from 3982 /peíthō, "persuade, be persuaded") – believe (affirm, have confidence); used of persuading oneself (= human believing) and with the sacred significance of being persuaded by the Lord (= faith-believing). Only the context indicates whether 4100 /pisteúō ("believe") is self-serving (without sacred meaning), or the believing that leads to/proceeds from God's inbirthing of faith.


NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from pistis
Definition
to believe, entrust
NASB Translation
believe (118), believed (73), believers (3), believes (29), believing (10), do (1), entrust (1), entrusted (6), entrusting (1), has faith (1).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4100: πιστεύω

πιστεύω; imperfect ἐπίστευον; future πιστεύσω; 1 aorist ἐπίστευσα; perfect πεπίστευκα; pluperfect (without augment, cf. Winers Grammar, § 12, 9; (Buttmann, 33 (29))) πεπιστεύκειν (Acts 14:23); passive perfect πεπίστευμαι; 1 aorist ἐπιστεύθην; (πιστός); the Sept. for הֶאֱמִין; in classical Greek from Aeschyl, Sophocles, Euripides, Thucydides down; to believe, i. e.
1. intransitive, to think to be true; to be persuaded of; to credit, place confidence in;

a. universally: the thing believed being evident from the preceding context, Matthew 24:23,(26); Mark 13:21; 1 Corinthians 11:18; with an accusative of the thing, Acts 13:41 (L T Tr WH ὁ for Rec. ᾧ), to credit, have confidence, followed by ὅτι, Acts 9:26; τίνι, to believe one's words, Mark 16:13; 1 John 4:1; τίνι ὅτι, John 4:21; τῷ ψεύδει, 2 Thessalonians 2:11; περί τίνος, ὅτι, John 9:18.

b. specifically, in a moral and religious reference, πιστεύειν is used in the N. T. of "the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of his soul"; thus it stands α. absolutely to trust in Jesus or in God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: Matthew 8:13; Matthew 21:22; Mark 5:36; Mark 9:23; Luke 8:50; John 11:40; followed by ὅτι, Matthew 9:28; Mark 11:23; (Hebrews 11:6); τῷ λόγῳ, ᾧ (ὅν) εἶπεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς, John 4:50. β. of the credence given to God's messengers and their words, with a dative of the person or thing: Μωϋσεῖ John 5:46. to the prophets, John 12:38; Acts 24:14; Acts 26:27; Romans 10:16; ἐπί πᾶσιν οἷς ἐλάλησαν οἱ προφῆται, to place reliance on etc. Luke 24:25. to an angel, Luke 1:20; followed by ὅτι, Luke 1:45. to John the Baptist, Matthew 21:25 (26),32; Mark 11:31; Luke 20:5. to Christ's words, John 3:12; John 5:38, 46; John 6:30; John 8:45; John 10:(37),38{a}; τοῖς ἔργοις of Christ, John 10:38{b}. to the teachings of evangelists and apostles, Acts 8:12; τῇ ἀλήθεια, 2 Thessalonians 2:12; ἐπιστεύθη τό μαρτύριον, the testimony was believed, 2 Thessalonians 1:10 (cf. Winers Grammar, § 39,1 a.; Buttmann, 175 (152)); τῇ γραφή, John 2:22. ἐν τῷ εὐαγγελίῳ, to put faith in the gospel, Mark 1:15 (Buttmann, 174 (151f); cf. Winers Grammar, 213 (200f)) (Ignatius ad Philad. 8, 2 [ET] ((but see Zahn's note); cf. John 3:15 in γ. below)). γ. used especially of the faith by which a man embraces Jesus, i. e. "a conviction, full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah — the divinely appointed author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ": πιστεύω τόν υἱόν τοῦ Θεοῦ εἶναι Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, Acts 8:37 Rec.; ἐπιστεύθη (was believed on (cf. Winers Grammar, § 39, 1 a.; Buttmann, 175 (152))) ἐν κόσμῳ, 1 Timothy 3:16. the phrase πιστεύειν εἰς τόν Ἰησοῦν, εἰς τόν υἱόν τοῦ Θεοῦ, etc., is very common; properly, to have a faith directed unto, believing or in faith to give oneself up to, Jesus, etc. (cf. Winers Grammar, 213 (200f); (Buttmann, 174 (151))): Matthew 18:6; Mark 9:42 (R G L Tr text); John 2:11; John 3:15 R G,; (R G L); ,(),; ,(); ; Acts 10:43; Acts 19:4; Romans 10:14; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 1:29; 1 John 5:10; 1 Peter 1:8; εἰς τό φῶς, John 12:36; εἰς τό ὄνομα αὐτοῦ, John 1:12; John 2:23; John 3:18; 1 John 5:13; τῷ ὀνόματι αὐτοῦ, to commit oneself trustfully to the name (see ὄνομα, 2, p. 448a), 1 John 3:23; ἐπ' αὐτόν, ἐπί τόν κύριον, to have a faith directed toward, etc. (see ἐπί, C. I. 2 g. α., p. 235b (cf. Winers Grammar, and Buttmann, as above, also Buttmann, § 147, 25)): Matthew 27:42 T Tr text WH; John 3:15 L text; Acts 9:42; Acts 11:17; Acts 16:31; Acts 22:19 ((cf. Wis. 12:2)); ἐπ' αὐτῷ, to build one's faith on, to place one's faith upon (see ἐπί, B. 2 a.γ., p. 233a; Buttmann, as above): Romans 9:33; Romans 10:11; 1 Timothy 1:16; 1 Peter 2:6; ἐν αὐτῷ, to put faith in him, John 3:15 (L marginal reading; cf. T Tr WH also (who probably connect ἐν αὐτῷ with the following ἔχῃ; cf. Westcott's Commentary at the passage, Meyer, others)) (cf. Jeremiah 12:6; Psalm 77:22 (), where πιστεύειν ἐν τίνι means to put confidence in one, to trust one; (cf. Mark 1:15 above, β. at the end)); ἐν τούτῳ πιστεύομεν, on this rests our faith (A. V. by this we believe), John 16:30; with the simple dative, τῷ κυρίῳ, to (yield faith to) believe (cf. B. 173 (151)): Matthew 27:42 R G L Tr marginal reading; Acts 5:14; Acts 18:8; supply τούτῳ before οὗ in Romans 10:14; to trust in Christ (God), 2 Timothy 1:12; διά τίνος, through one's agency to be brought to faith, John 1:7; 1 Corinthians 3:5; διά Ἰησοῦ εἰς Θεόν, 1 Peter 1:21 R G Tr marginal reading; διά τῆς χάριτος, Acts 18:27; διά τοῦ λόγου αὐτῶν εἰς ἐμέ, John 17:20; διά τί, John 4:39 (), ; . πιστεύω followed by ὅτι with a sentence in which either the nature and dignity of Christ or his blessings are set forth: John 6:69; John 8:24; John 10:38c R G; ,(); ; (); ; 1 John 5:1, 5; Romans 6:8; 1 Thessalonians 4:14; μοι ὅτι, John 14:11; τί, John 11:26; πιστεύω σωθῆναι, Acts 15:11; the simple πιστεύειν is used emphatically, of those who acknowledge Jesus as the saviour and devote themselves to him: Mark 15:32 (here L adds αὐτῷ); Luke 8:12; Luke 22:67; John 1:50(); f; Rec.; ; Acts 5:14; (); ; (); Romans 1:16; Romans 3:22; Romans 4:11; Romans 10:4; Romans 15:13; 2 Corinthians 4:13; Ephesians 1:13,(); 2 Thessalonians 1:10; Hebrews 4:3; with ἐξ ὅλης καρδίας added, Acts 8:37 Rec.; with a dative of instrumentality καρδία, Romans 10:10; participle present οἱ πιστεύοντες, as a substantive: Acts 2:44; Romans 3:22; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 3:22; (Ephesians 1:19); 1 Thessalonians 1:7; 1 Thessalonians 2:10, 13; 2 Thessalonians 1:10 Rec.; 1 Peter 2:7; equivalent to who are on the point of believing, 1 Corinthians 14:22, cf. 1 Corinthians 14:24f; aorist ἐπίστευσα (marking entrance into a state; see βασιλεύω, at the end), I became a believer, a Christian (A. V. believed): Acts 4:4; Acts 8:13; Acts 13:12, 48; Acts 14:1; Acts 15:7; Acts 17:12, 34; Romans 13:11; 1 Corinthians 3:5; 1 Corinthians 15:2, 11; with the addition of ἐπί τόν κύριον (see above), Acts 9:42; participle πιστεύσας, Acts 11:21; Acts 19:2; ὁ πιστεύσας, Mark 16:16; plural, ; Acts 4:32; οἱ πεπιστευκότες, they that have believed (have become believers): Acts 19:18; Acts 21:20; (on (John's use of) the tenses of πιστεύω see Westcott on 1 John 3:23). It must be borne in mind, that in Paul's conception of τό πιστεύειν εἰς Χριστόν, the prominent element is the grace of God toward sinners as manifested and pledged (and to be laid hold of by faith) in Jesus, particularly in his death and resurrection, as appears especially in Romans 3:25; Romans 4:24; Romans 10:9; 1 Thessalonians 4:14; but in John's conception, it is the metaphysical relationship of Christ with God and close ethical intimacy with him, as well as the true 'life' to be derived from Christ as its source; cf. Rückert, Das Abendmahl, p. 251. Moreover, πιστεύειν is used by John of various degrees of faith, from its first beginnings, its incipient stirring within the soul, up to the fullest assurance, John 2:23 (cf. John 2:24); ; of a faith which does not yet recognize Jesus as the Messiah, but as a prophet very like the Messiah, John 7:31; and to signify that one's faith is preserved, strengthened, increased, raised to the level which it ought to reach, ; 1 John 5:13b Rec.; (cf. references under the word πίστις, at the end). is applied also to the faith by which one is persuaded that Jesus was raised from the dead, inasmuch as by that fact God declared him to be his Son and the Messiah: John 20:8, 25, 29; πιστεύσῃς ἐν τῇ καρδία σου ὅτι ὁ Θεός αὐτόν ἤγειρεν ἐκ νεκρῶν σωθήσῃ, Romans 10:9 (cf. Buttmann, § 133, 19). Since according to the conception of Christian faith Christ alone is the author of salvation, ὁ πιστεύων repudiates all the various things which aside from Christ are commended as means of salvation (such e. g. as abstinence from flesh and wine), and understands that all things are lawful to him which do not lead him away from Christ; hence, πιστεύει (τίς) φαγεῖν πάντα, hath faith to eat all things or so that he eats all things, Romans 14:2; cf. Rückert at the passage; (Winers Grammar, § 44,3 b.; per contra Buttmann, 273f (235)). δ. πιστεύειν used in reference to God has various senses: αα. it denotes the mere acknowledgment of his existence: ὅτι ὁ Θεός εἷς ἐστιν, James 2:19; acknowledgment joined to appropriate trust, absolutely, Jude 1:5; εἰς Θεόν, John 12:44; John 14:1; equivalent to to believe and embrace what God has made known either through Christ or concerning Christ: τῷ Θεῷ, John 5:24; Acts 16:34; Titus 3:8; 1 John 5:10; ἐπί τόν Θεόν, Romans 4:5; τήν ἀγάπην, ἥν ἔχει ὁ Θεός, 1 John 4:16; εἰς τήν μαρτυρίαν, ἥν κτλ., 1 John 5:10. ββ. to trust: τῷ Θεῷ, God promising a thing, Romans 4:3, 17 (on which see κατέναντι); Galatians 3:6; (James 2:23); absolutely, Romans 4:18; followed by ὅτι, Acts 27:25. ε. πιστεύειν is used in an ethical sense, of confidence in the goodness of men: ἡ ἀγάπη πιστεύει πάντα, 1 Corinthians 13:7. τό πιστεύειν is opposed to ἰδεῖν, John 20:29; to ὁρᾶν, ibid. and 1 Peter 1:8 (Theophilus ad Autol. 1, 7 at the end), cf. 2 Corinthians 5:7; to διακρίνεσθαι, Romans 4:19; Romans 14:1, 23, cf. James 1:6; to ὁμολογεῖν, Romans 10:9.

2. transitively, τίνι τί, to intrust a thing to one, i. e. to his fidelity : Luke 16:11; ἑαυτόν τίνι, John 2:24; passive, πιστεύομαι τί, to be intrusted with a thing: Romans 3:2; 1 Corinthians 9:17; Galatians 2:7; 1 Thessalonians 2:4; 1 Timothy 1:11; Titus 1:8 (Ignatius ad Philad. 9 [ET]; examples from secular authors are given in Winers Grammar, § 39, 1 a.). On the grammatical construction of the word cf. Buttmann, § 133, 4 (and the summaries in Ellicott on 1 Timothy 1:16; Vaughan on Romans 4:5; Cremer, under the word). It does not occur in Revlation, nor in Philemon, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John (Cf. the references under the word πίστις, at the end.)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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thank you ariel for posting the long version.
 
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Whether people are truly saved by believing in what Christ has done is up to the Lord to decide. Whether they actually did believe in their hearts and receive Christ or not is the real question.

I agree as there are many people making "mental assent" to being a Christian but true belief is of the heart - not in the mind nor by trying to mimic the Christian life by "being good" and going to church or in the "doing of good works"...etc.

( these are all good things within themselves )

A life that manifests Christ is one that has been fed on the proper nutrients of Christ Himself. It's a natural result of "being who we already are in Christ".

We feed from Him and His grace and love for us which shows up in and through our lives for others to see the love and grace of loving father and Lord have for them.

If they truly are saved and not manifesting the fruit of an exchanged life - then the Lord will discipline them in His child-training as He does to all of us children. It is a sign that we are in fact real children of our Father.

Some times our "idea" of what fruit is can be mis-leading too as some can manifest fruit in one area where others don't have yet so we can be quick to say that they are not saved.

I don't believe in watering down the message of the true gospel of the grace of Christ because some will have a mental assent to it. The whole truth of the gospel is in "believing" in Christ's work. I believe we need to be preaching and teaching the gospel more boldly then ever so that people can truly believe in what Christ has done.

I believe this is why Paul said to those in a letter to Corinth - examine yourselves to see if Christ is indeed in you. See if you are really in the faith. Being in the faith means = Christ is in you.

2 Corinthians 13:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?
 
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This message wasn't for you, but rather to warn others of you, and your false gospel..
You should be warning people of yourself pal....Your very message reeks of ignorance and goes about to establish your own righteousness while trampling under foot Jesus, grace, mercy and eternal life based upon faith....
 
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It went above my head?

You're such a cutie.
You meant CONFUSE and you know it.

Conflate just sounds better to you....
No..I actually picked the word on purpose Fran.....and I am not that cute.....
 
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I agree...

Imagine a "god" that says - If you don't do good works then I will send you to hell and then into the lake of fires - even though your sins were washed in My Son's blood and you are My child whom I love deeply - which is the reason why I sent My Son to die for you. But - "you must do good works" to insure you are continually remained saved.

That is an anti-Christ belief system that is no where near the true gospel message of Christ as our Savior.

This "god" doesn't tell us exactly what these good works are specifically and how much we need...etc


If our eternal destination is determined on "good works" - then knowing exactly what every one of them is and how many we need to do and for how long - would be a "HANDY DANDY PIECE" of information to have.

Thank God for the real gospel of the grace of God in Christ. Feed Christians the word of Christ Himself and they will have His life being manifested to walk out the good works of the Father that are in them now because they are in Christ and Christ is in them.
Paul was clear....

Faith pus works to seal the deal = a gospel of heteros, NO power, false, double cursed and all who espouse it are fools and bewitched....end of story...they cannot get through their thick skulls that it is faith alone that saves eternally and ANY WORK produced is a BY PRODUCT of being placed in the vine BY FAITH and biblically being BORN AGAIN, SAVED, REDEEMED......
 
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So the early Church, right at about Jesus' time did NOT believe in eternal security.

And most Protestant churches do not believe in it either.

So then Eternals Security must be a false doctrine!

Now you're starting to understand.
Yeah...the majority of the world believes you came from a monkey or an electrified protein filled pool of sludge....does that make them right?

Most so called Christian religions have their roots in or from the Catholic Church.....and last time I checked....the broad way to the pit contains the MANY...the MINORITY is found within the straight NARROW WAY.....

WE believe the door is JESUS...you believe the door is JESUS embellished with your own effort and works...

WHY do you suppose the number that gets cast is described in the following ways...

a. PLENTEOUS in NUMBER<---indicates MANY
b. THEY claim to KNOW JESUS
c. THEIR BOAST is in WORKS as their means

THE above describes accurately the dogma you espouse and push......it also describes accurately your boast above about MOST who believe this

PAUL was clear and this bears out in the words of JESUS....those who blend faith and works as the means of salvation push a false gospel with NO POWER and this is exactly why the number that comes before JESUS only to be cast is plenteous.....YOU claim to know JESUS and you push WORKS as your means of maintaining salvation<----described as a false, double cursed gospel of a different kind with NO POWER to save....

HOW is it that you cannot see these obvious truths?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
"All manner od sin shall be forgiven to man, but rejecting the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven: He is teaching us to walk in Love and apart from Him we can't. "For if you do not forgive neither will your Father in heaven forgive you, is in danger of rejecting the Holy Spirit... Reproving the world of sin the Holy Spirit does, and as we change not to judge and Love them in their present condition it frees them to change, as opposed to striving with them: "Only by pride comes contention."
That only works if they have the Holy spirit and know how to listen, pray and study.

God gives us ministries to help mature our faith and it's more than to sit back and let the Holy spirit do it all. It is allowing God to work through us by speaking words of rebuke and wisdom in love when we see someone sin or about to walk into Satan's traps, we should warn them.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Funny this. G7 preaches heresy, the sermon on the mount is not for believers etc.
He pushes the main line HG preachers, WOF, health and wealth positions.
I have zero truck with this, and want no communications, because they are just
biased distortions of simple scripture and theology. My words have been far kinder
than they should have been.

And I have no time for people who are heretics like this. Jesus's words are eternal,
deny them and you do not know Jesus.

Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.
2 John 1:11

In the world of spiritual authority, to defile yourself with heretics dishonours Christ.
I thought fran said he did not do things like this?

Maybe she will see it and yell at him also..
 
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Completely wrong. This is a fundamental error in basic theology.

Jesus described salvation as a new birth. Single one time event. Sanctification is a journey a lifetime journey with many faltering steps.


You would teach and yet you are the one who needs to know the truth. Romanism cannot save and only leads to destruction.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

AMEN.........and he even compares it to birth in John.......
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
My summary of some is they are so lost in security in Christ they do not see the sin
and heresy flowing out from their words and position, it has become too ingrained with
the hatred and animosity they feel everytime they get angry.

This says it all folks.

Security in Christ is a bad thing, (then again, he did say the cross is insufficent (not enough) so we shoudl all Know he thought this.

anyway, There you have it,, I guess the only thing is security in self.. Of Course peter will deny it, but what else is left.

And he judges Grace777 and others of sin, when he does not even know Grace777 or the rest of us, Yet he refuses to repent of his sins which he commits every day.

Again, Its there for all to see..

And thus nothing else he said in this post is worth reading.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
I thought fran said he did not do things like this?

Maybe she will see it and yell at him also..
Highly unlikely, but I am glad I haven't taken him off ignore today.

Maybe tomorrow he will have a better day.

EG..,,, I can't find hatred or animosity in my heart at this time..,can you help me look? Cus I was told it was in us.....
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
On the point of positions.
False teachers are just ex-teachers and have no authority.

Foundations are everything. Conviction of sin and sorrow is the beginning of spiritual awakening.
Those that cannot support this do not know God.

The fact that on a christian forum this is even debated shows the level of apostacy that is present.
But getting real in Canada there are atheist churches where they all believe it is made up, but they
like the formal belonging, singing and ceremonies so they carry on. So I should not be surprised, lol.

Here we have a man rambling in anger,, I guess the day got to him? Was he not just judging people of being angry? Again, Wil he repent?

If false teachers are of no authority, You have no authority Peter. Of course your continues sin and lack of repentance should show everyone you have no authority.. Let alone your words.

We know you hate HG and Calvanism Peter.. Instead of outright attacking them, Why do you not show us some of their points, and prove them wrong

Oh thats right you already did that, About a year agao. And every one of your points of what you claimed Hypergrace taught was proven to be in error.

Same old song and dance..
 
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It does not get any plainer..........
Their unrighteous works have ZERO to do with them being cast into the lake of fire!

Is this a true statement?
People get cast into hell because they are under the condemnation of the law having died without trusting Christ biblically who was the propitiation for the SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.....

THE HOLY SPIRIT convicts of sin because THEY HAVE NOT BELIEVED ON ME (JESUS)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Do you realize how you have blasphemed against the Truth so clear in scripture!

One has to twist, turn, mangle, mutilate stretch scripture beyond all recognition to make your false dogma fit.

Jesus was very clear one has to be born again to have eternal life. We are born again in this life therefore we have eternal life starting in this life. Something cannot be eternal if it stops and starts...basic physics!
She is angry at calvanism so she is lashing out..

Of course, I always thought OSAS just meant once you were saved, you were always saved, I didnot know it was a doctrine until I came in here.

Thats why I hate key words and things like that, People here you speak and they try to put you all in a mold, whther you believe the same thing or not. And then wonder why they keep getting accused of slandering.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
People get cast into hell because they are under the condemnation of the law having died without trusting Christ biblically who was the propitiation for the SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.....

THE HOLY SPIRIT convicts of sin because THEY HAVE NOT BELIEVED ON ME (JESUS)
Sometimes I wish everyone would take a few classes on logic and debate.....

The Most Common Logical Fallacies

Affirming the Consequent
This is a fairly difficult fallacy to understand or spot. It is categorical in nature and, essentially, means reversing an argument, or putting the cart before the horse, meaning reversing or confusing the general category with the specific/sub-category. Note that in this fallacy the premises/reasons are actually correct or valid; the error is found between the premises and conclusion. Usually, the error occurs because we incorrectly assume that the Premise was a sufficient condition, when in fact it was only a necessary condition (one of many conditions) necessary to prove the conclusion.

Fallacy Ex:
Premise: Ducks are birds.
Premise: Ducks swim in the water.
Premise: Chickens are birds.
False Conclusion: Chickens swim in the water.
(Affirming The Consequent Fallacy: not all birds swim in water; swimming is neither a necessary or sufficient condition to be the thing "bird")
 
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