An Evil Teaching From the Pulpit

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Sep 6, 2014
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#41
The hardness of the heart is the reason divorce was granted.......
All men and women (with the exception of Christ) are sinners by nature (fleshly) and are guilty of sin. Including sexual immorality (“a surrendering of sexual purity”).

In our current age and in the past, people hardened their hearts and divorced. Men allow this to this day but divorce was not part of the original plan of God for man and women. Very simple to understand is it not?

Remember, hypocrites were testing/tempting Christ with this question.......
[SUP]
[/SUP]Matthew 19:3-9
[SUP]The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? 4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

This does not make one man (or woman) more of a sinner than any other man or women born through the seed of Adam and Eve because some of them divorce. Nor does it make those who don't enter into divorce or that can retain celibacy any better. All men are under sin, and under law, until they under grace.

[/SUP][SUP]Romans 3:9-20
[/SUP]What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17And the way of peace have they not known:
18There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

[SUP]
Romans 3:21-26
[/SUP][SUP]But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


All men (including women) with the exception of Jesus Christ, are guilty of sin, and guilty of transgressing the law.
[/SUP][SUP]

Eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil brought sin and death to the descendants of Adam and Eve. That includes sexual immorality and hardness of the heart, but men were not created that way form the beginning. The law made sin exceedingly sinful and can not justify sinners.

Romans 5:12-20
[/SUP]Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Man fell through sin, then the law of Moses showed sin that reigned in us, making sin exceedingly sinful. We all need a Savior.
Thanks be to God in Jesus Christ for delivering us from this body of death!


Romans 7:13-25
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 6:1-2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Under sin-------------> Under Law-------------> Under grace<-------

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Put the stones you are ready to cast back down inspiritandtruth :).

God is watching and not asleep, or on vacation.

Hopefully we will see you on the grace side soon, according to the riches of God in Christ Jesus.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#42
We have a real problem with trying to push this "adultery" reason.... when Jesus said, Himself, that a husband with a wandering eye (Even if he keeps his pants on.) has already committed adultery.

And in most failing marriages, either one or both partners are looking around.
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
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#43
I think the real problem is preachers who perform weddings for divorced people.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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#44
We have a real problem with trying to push this "adultery" reason.... when Jesus said, Himself, that a husband with a wandering eye (Even if he keeps his pants on.) has already committed adultery.

And in most failing marriages, either one or both partners are looking around.
Its true what you say.

Yet what I find interesting is that there are a lot of believers who don't actually think about this.

Its easy to fall into the trap of "If we don't physically do it then it's not a sin" Maybe that's why many men even though they struggle with porn and know they do are not truly convicted in their heart because they have not comitted the physicals act.

Jesus said it's what in your heart that counts.

I suppose we could take it further. We can hate someone yet not actually say it but it's in our heart.
Some seem to think if that we don't call someone a fool/idiot then that's fine but to be if those those thoughts reside in the heart then it's not ok.

Im not saying they should say it but what they should do is ask God to cleanse the heart.

Rpelace what's in the heart with love and compassion and truth.
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
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#45
We have a real problem with trying to push this "adultery" reason.... when Jesus said, Himself, that a husband with a wandering eye (Even if he keeps his pants on.) has already committed adultery.

And in most failing marriages, either one or both partners are looking around.
Which goes to the sorry state of affairs of the church lacking of making disciples of believers in Jesus Christ.

Believers nowadays are prepped to have their guard up to protect their own lives when being missionaries in other countries, but when it comes to living in America, the armor of God is not worn living in America where the media is "programming " them all in having the mind of the world and not the mind of Christ.
 

Enow

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Dec 21, 2012
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#46
When Jesus invoked the unpardonable sin upon the Pharisees,it had nothing to do with divorce.

But please note,he said all others COULD be forgiven.
Correct, but even you would not tell someone that it is not an unforgivable sin to commit murder, right? That s the whole point. You do not tell anyone to get a divorce on non-Biblical grounds by saying that it is not an unforgivable sin to get a divorce.

If they get a divorce, they get a divorce. Anyone saying that go ahead and do it because it is not an unforgivable sin is causing them to stumble & will answer for it. Why make the devil's job easier in tempting others TO COMMIT SIN?
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
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#47
I think the real problem is preachers who perform weddings for divorced people.
Especially when the divorce is not Biblical in God's eyes which makes you wonder about the education all these pastors are getting with degrees at colleges and universities.

But it is worse when they help them along by saying it is not an unforgivable sin to get a divorce.

I know I had lacked discipleship in His words growing up and said things, I ought not, but the Lord corrected me by His words, and not go by the majority of opinions any more, because I trust Jesus to be my Good Shepherd to help me follow Him; not a church.
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
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#48
Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Put the stones you are ready to cast back down in spirit and truth :).

God is watching and not asleep, or on vacation.

Hopefully we will see you on the grace side soon, according to the riches of God in Christ Jesus.
I thank you fro sharing but clarification is needed here.

Salvation is never at risk, but being received at the Marriage Supper at the pre trib rapture event is. As Ephesians 2:10 testify that we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works that we should live in them.

So what we sows towards counts; if we sow towards the works of the flesh, we shall reap corruption; and risk being left behind at the pre trib rapture for not looking to Him for help in laying aside every weight & sin to be received by Him.

If we sow to the fruits of the Spirit as opposing sowing to the works of the flesh, we shall be received by the Bridegroom by the grace of God and His help since our confidence is in Him to finish what He has stated in us to His glory.

So what is built on that foundation will be judged and to heed the call to depart from iniquity is getting rid of that stubble, hay, and wood that are on that foundation so it doesn't need t be burned away or risk physical death for defiling the temple of God in that day when God judges His House first. 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 & 1 Peter 4:17-19

There is no excuse for not applying faith in Jesus Christ as your personal Good Shepherd to help you to follow Him.

For the woman caught in adultery... once she acknowledged Him as Lord, neither did He condemn her but He said.. go and sin no more. There is a fine line with living in sin and not desiring to sin by having a heart leaning on Him for repentance.

We follow Him by the grace of God by faith in Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him just as we have been saved by the grace of God by faith in Jesus Christ as our Saviour that we are saved for simply believing in Him.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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#49
Correct, but even you would not tell someone that it is not an unforgivable sin to commit murder, right? That s the whole point. You do not tell anyone to get a divorce on non-Biblical grounds by saying that it is not an unforgivable sin to get a divorce.

If they get a divorce, they get a divorce. Anyone saying that go ahead and do it because it is not an unforgivable sin is causing them to stumble & will answer for it. Why make the devil's job easier in tempting others TO COMMIT SIN?
Ok I think I get where you are coming from, though open to correction although I'm still not sure with the "unforgivable bit"

Divorce is not unforgivable, to me full stop.
Divorce is acceptable if adultery if adultery is a physical act.

The problem is when we confine it to the physical act and let's be honest it seems to concentrate on that.

I think in this way.

Adultery is being unfaithful. That being the case divorce is acceptable. The physical act.
In the O.T God talked about issuing a certificate of divorce (something like that) because Israel was unfaithful.
So it wasn't the physical act of sex but being unfaithful to God as a result of what they did.

So let's say we have a married couple and the husband is a wife beater and reverse it.
What about a spouse who continually puts the other down and tells them they are useless good for nothing and so on.

Is that not being unfaithful.

Would we counsel a beaten woman to stay with a husband who continually beats her and say try and sort it out?

I wouldn't, the husband has been unfaithful and therefore the wife has grounds for divorce.
 
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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#50
The only sin that the Holy Spirit will convict of is not believing in Jesus Christ.

John 16:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:[SUP] 9 [/SUP]Of sin, because they believe not on me;[SUP] 10 [/SUP]Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;[SUP]11 [/SUP]Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
This is a misapplication of Scripture if I ever saw one. By what means are believers convicted of sin if not by the Holy Spirit?

Where the Scripture speaks, go with it. Where it is silent, don't make things up. The Scripture you quote in support of your position says absolutely nothing about conviction for other sins, so neither should you. Nor does it say that the Holy Spirit will "only" convict of the sin of disbelief.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#51
Correct, but even you would not tell someone that it is not an unforgivable sin to commit murder, right? That s the whole point. You do not tell anyone to get a divorce on non-Biblical grounds by saying that it is not an unforgivable sin to get a divorce.
So why not just tell people what the Scripture says, and leave it at that? Your interpretive commentary only obfuscates the truth.

If they get a divorce, they get a divorce. Anyone saying that go ahead and do it because it is not an unforgivable sin is causing them to stumble & will answer for it. Why make the devil's job easier in tempting others TO COMMIT SIN?
Actually, telling them what the Scripture says does not cause them to stumble. The wickedness of their hearts causes them to stumble. Telling someone that sin is not unforgivable is not tempting them.

By the way, a not unquick fox chased a not unsmall rabbit across a not ungreen field.
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
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#52
Ok I think I get where you are coming from, though open to correction although I'm still not sure with the "unforgivable bit"
That is about telling others to go ahead and commit sin.. to go ahead and get a divorce on UnBiblical grounds because they say.. it is not an unforgivable sin.

Divorce is not unforgivable, to me full stop.
I do not know what you meant by that "to me full stop". Clarification please.

Divorce is acceptable if adultery if adultery is a physical act.

The problem is when we confine it to the physical act and let's be honest it seems to concentrate on that.
Well that is within the parameter of the OP, even though it was about what was being preached from the pulpit, but if you want to branch out beyond what was said by Jesus to another reference by Jesus.. do recognize that you are the one doing a side bar topic, okay?

You are allowed to expound if you wish, but I understand and agree with what Jesus said in looking at a woman and having lust in your heart, you already have committed adultery. I get that.

So you are addressing the inside of the person that God sees which goes beyond what Jesus was talking about when people get a divorce as mentioned below:

Matthew 5:[SUP]31 [/SUP]It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:[SUP]32 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

To what you are talking about that Jesus said...

Matthew 5:[SUP]27 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:[SUP]28 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

I think in this way.

Adultery is being unfaithful. That being the case divorce is acceptable. The physical act.
In the O.T God talked about issuing a certificate of divorce (something like that) because Israel was unfaithful.
So it wasn't the physical act of sex but being unfaithful to God as a result of what they did.

So let's say we have a married couple and the husband is a wife beater and reverse it.
What about a spouse who continually puts the other down and tells them they are useless good for nothing and so on.

Is that not being unfaithful.
I would call that berating and belittling. I believe Peter addressed that situation in 1 Peter 3rd chapter and Jesus's example at the end of 1 Peter 2nd chapter to set for both women and men in that 3rd chapter.

A wife could say..her husband does not take the trash out when she had asked him to... and consider that unfaithful, but that is not how we should apply unfaithful.

It is not good to have verbal abuse. One can walk out of the house to stop listening to it, but either stay or go, prayer is needed.

I heard a report long ago that my pastor was called over the phone about some child having a fit and somehow, he had asked who else was in the room for he heard someone said something, and they told him who was all in the room, and he said.. whoever said.. whatever he heard.. to get out of the house. It turned out the person that left the house was demonically possessed. Weird how that came about. I could not get the whole story.. but scary how the forces of darkness work where they can put someone else in a fit of rage.

So a spouse may be abusive intentionally.. as being unreasonable.... but other forces may be involved that only the Lord can prick the discerners into picking up and solving what may be a supernatural disturbance on a domestic level.

Would we counsel a beaten woman to stay with a husband who continually beats her and say try and sort it out?

I wouldn't, the husband has been unfaithful and therefore the wife has grounds for divorce.
I would say more information & discernment is needed as forces of darkness may be at work here, BUT definitely she should be separated from her husband, because as an unbeliever or as a believer, that is not being "pleased" to dwell with her.

I am sure that if you & I were physically present by the Lord's hand involving any domestic squabble between christian couples, He will lead us to discern and minister according to His words.. all of them in seeking their good in the Lord.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#53
I can see why God hates divorce though. It may take years to unravel the damage done.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#54
i dont see how it can be unforgivable especially when you do all those years of penance while your married.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#55
It may have been said in your church from your pastor from the pulpit or you may have heard it among the believers, but this is an evil teaching from the pulpit that it is not an unforgivable sin to get a divorce.
I find the way you interpret scripture to be rather confused on another topic we've discussed. Here is another case of it.

I Corinthians 6 tells us that some of the Corinthians had been adulterers, but then were washed, sanctified, and justified. The concern with illegitimate divorce and remarriage is adultery, as we see in Jesus' teachings. Can adultery be forgiven? Clearly yes. We also have the example of David, 'How blessed is the man whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

If you were to post that people are sinning by divorcing and remarrying and preachers across America are turning a blind eye to it, and not pointing out the sin, I just might agree with you. Much of it is sinful. Many contemporary interpretations flatly contradict Jesus and apostolic teaching on the subject.





Why is it evil? That is like saying you can use God's grace to commit sin. Think about it.

Is it an unforgivable sin to commit murder? Is it an unforgivable sin to commit suicide? See that slippery slope? That is what the devil would say to tempt someone. No one should be hearing that preach from the pulpit. The elders are sleeping when that happens.

No one likes to get "involved" in other people's marriages. The ole society's standard of minding your own business is actually running against scripture.

Matthew 18:[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?[SUP] 13 [/SUP]And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.[SUP] 16 [/SUP]But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Does that sound like ignoring believers when they go astray?

What did Paul say about marriage troubles and why people should get married?

1 Corinthians 7:1Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.[SUP]4 [/SUP]The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.[SUP]5 [/SUP]Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency..........[SUP]8 [/SUP]I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.[SUP]9 [/SUP]But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

Pastors nowadays give counseling before giving the couple the permission to get married, but no counseling to prevent getting a divorce?

Paul continues....

1 Corinthians 7:[SUP]10 [/SUP]And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:[SUP] 11 [/SUP]But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

No divorce.. separation is allowed with no dating other people.. duh..that is like playing with fire.... but no divorce.

Paul continues with marriages where one is a believer but the other is not.

1 Corinthians 7:[SUP]12 [/SUP]But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.[SUP]14 [/SUP]For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.[SUP]16 [/SUP]For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?[SUP] 17 [/SUP]But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

So if the unbeliever departs.... wants that divorce... you can get a divorce as Paul states by permission, but Paul explains why you should not get a divorce when the unbelievers does not want a divorce when he is still consenting to live with you. However, speaking by permission and not by commandment...if the unbeliever is an abusive spouse, that is hardly someone "pleased" to dwell with her.

Jesus even cites why the church should be involved.... that it is YOUR business.

Matthew 18:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.[SUP]19 [/SUP]Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

So a believer can get a divorce from an unbeliever; and that believer can marry again if that believer so desires.

But when this involves a believer.....who obeys not the word any more or for some reason stops being a believer...Christ still abides in that believer.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

If he or she still pleased to dwell with the believing spouse or the spouse that is abiding in His words, we have this exhortation....

1 Peter 3:1Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;[SUP] 2 [/SUP]While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;[SUP] 4 [/SUP]But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:[SUP] 9 [/SUP]Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:[SUP] 11 [/SUP]Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.[SUP] 13 [/SUP]And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?[SUP] 14 [/SUP]But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;[SUP]15 [/SUP]But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

A lot of believers have gotten divorced and remarried and so it is like a can of worms talking about this for which the pastor and the church steers from this topic, even to the point of saying that evil teaching from the pulpit.

What is done is done but there is a call for repentance. You cannot say that evil thing that it is not an unforgivable sin to get a divorce. That is what the devil will say. If there are grounds for the divorce... there would be no need to say that, right? It is the church business to get involved just as much as they were involved when the couple got married.

But many have divorced and remarried and so couples should be taking this matter to the Lord for forgiveness and help in following Him Biblically and not do what society says nor what a church compromised by society says.

Easier said than done. If you are feeling the burden.. roll it over to Jesus for help and guidance in according to His words as to what He is enabling you to do or to say. I know it will be hard to get a church to be involved when routine is to stay out of people's business regarding troubles in marriage where divorce is in the conversation, but just pray.

Even if to edify the pastor to dictate the solution for the couple to be separated for a while, praying & fasting to come together again if it is their unwillingness to forgive each other because of whatever other than adultery. If it is about domestic violence.... definitely separation... and if it is an unbeliever doing that abuse... get a divorce. That is not a spouse pleased to live with that believer.

Course, it is against the law to commit acts of domestic violence, but so many women put up with it wherein I think the church should demand separation of spouse and children from the abuser. And men should not be ashamed for speaking up when the wives are the abusers. Men cannot be around all the time to make sure wives are not abusing the children. Indeed, even children may take the abuse if it means keeping their parents together. They may even think it is a christian thing to do to put up with physical abuse.

1 Peter 2:[SUP]19 [/SUP]For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.[SUP]21 [/SUP]For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:[SUP] 22 [/SUP]Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:[SUP] 23 [/SUP]Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:[SUP] 24 [/SUP]Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.[SUP]25 [/SUP]For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

They certainly can read that as an example set by our Lord Jesus Christ. Someone, the spouse or a child may have that faith & love & patience & longsuffering to hope in the Lord to see the goodness of the Lord in that situation.

Romans 12:1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

So it may be hard to find the truth when claims of only the spouse is being physically abused and not the children.

Verbal abuse can be just as bad or worse.... leaving no evidence other than being a witness to the scene to be able to respond, but Jesus is Lord. Trust Him as your Good Shepherd for all things.

As programmed by society to mind our own business, I would be surprised if churches get involved like they are supposed to.

1 Corinthians 12:[SUP]25 [/SUP]That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.[SUP]26 [/SUP]And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.[SUP]27 [/SUP]Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

We do have this guideline for what is considered a busybody because they are idle.

2 Thessalonians 3:[SUP]10 [/SUP]For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

This was about the church taking care of widows that have no children taking care of them.

1 Timothy 5:[SUP]8 [/SUP]But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man.[SUP]10 [/SUP]Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.11But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;[SUP]12 [/SUP]Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. 13And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. 14I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

What is the difference? There is being nosy to be a tattler for gossip and then there is coming across a trespass...

Matthew 18:[SUP]14 [/SUP]Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

It is when the brother refuses to repent or he does not believe he is in error is when you get 2 or 3 witnesses to confirm the word. And only then if he refuses to repent, he or she needs to be brought before the congregation.

We know the churches in these latter days have not been practicing as instructed in the early church days because we hardly hear of excommunication. Indeed, keeping memberships is more important and so any correction by the pastor or the church will be done indirectly from the pulpit, hoping he or she gets the message. Then it gets worse when a church accepts social values to make compromises in the Bible to be seen as politically correct to get new members.

It is no wonder when a pastor from the pulpit will say stuff like... "It is not an unforgivable sin to get a divorce."

And the elders as well as the rest of the church just lets him get away with saying that. Are we awake yet?

Romans 13:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.[SUP]11 [/SUP]And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.[SUP]12 [/SUP]The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

1 Corinthians 15:[SUP]33 [/SUP]Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.[SUP]34 [/SUP]Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Ephesians 5:[SUP]13 [/SUP]But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,[SUP] 16 [/SUP]Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.[SUP]17 [/SUP]Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

2 Timothy 3:[SUP]12 [/SUP]Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.[SUP] 13 [/SUP]But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;[SUP] 15 [/SUP]And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.[SUP] 16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:[SUP]17 [/SUP]That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.[/QUOTE]
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,147
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#56
Whoops,

I didn't catch that I did not delete most of Enow's OP in that last message before the five minutes. This is my part of my last post.



I find the way you interpret scripture to be rather confused on another topic we've discussed. Here is another case of it.


I Corinthians 6 tells us that some of the Corinthians had been adulterers, but then were washed, sanctified, and justified. The concern with illegitimate divorce and remarriage is adultery, as we see in Jesus' teachings. Can adultery be forgiven? Clearly yes. We also have the example of David, 'How blessed is the man whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."


If you were to post that people are sinning by divorcing and remarrying and preachers across America are turning a blind eye to it, and not pointing out the sin, I just might agree with you. Much of it is sinful. Many contemporary interpretations flatly contradict Jesus and apostolic teaching on the subject.
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
#57
i dont see how it can be unforgivable especially when you do all those years of penance while your married.

LOL! terrible but made me laugh
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
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#58
Ok I think I get where you are coming from, though open to correction although I'm still not sure with the "unforgivable bit"

Divorce is not unforgivable, to me full stop.
Divorce is acceptable if adultery if adultery is a physical act.

The problem is when we confine it to the physical act and let's be honest it seems to concentrate on that.

I think in this way.

Adultery is being unfaithful. That being the case divorce is acceptable. The physical act.
In the O.T God talked about issuing a certificate of divorce (something like that) because Israel was unfaithful.
So it wasn't the physical act of sex but being unfaithful to God as a result of what they did.

So let's say we have a married couple and the husband is a wife beater and reverse it.
What about a spouse who continually puts the other down and tells them they are useless good for nothing and so on.

Is that not being unfaithful.

Would we counsel a beaten woman to stay with a husband who continually beats her and say try and sort it out?

I wouldn't, the husband has been unfaithful and therefore the wife has grounds for divorce.
But your example isn't in the bible. It may be how you feel, but facts don't care about feelings.

The truth is that divorce has been taken up by our governments so people can lay with another and not run afoul of bigamy laws.
We have to look at 1 Corinthians ch. 7 and see that if a woman must separate, as an abused woman probably should.... she must remain single or reconcile with her husband.
I know people on here don't like this, many are divorced and married to another, but they are committing adultery. It's clear as day in the bible.
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,152
113
#59
Oh, I forgot... I don't know about these unforgivable sin business. The only things I see in the bible that God will not forgive is: carrying is name in vain, and adding to or taking away from his word.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#60
A bit of a study Here on "marriage and divorce"...