Not By Works

[Meggido]

Proverbs-->Wise men see evil coming and prepare for it....the bible is replete with preparation well ahead of schedule for a seen coming event....just saying it is not unbiblical to prepare.

While I agree 100% with this and know your heart DCON...I do believe it will be case that we will run, but we cannot hide....

I do not plan on dying tired from running...

 

[dcontroversal]

Here is why I believe it is possible to fall away from trust. It is mind numbingly amazing to me that Israel had the trust to walk out under a huge wall of water that would kill them if it came crushing down from its suspended state, but then they refused to trust He would feed them them every morning!

Israel was delivered from bondage by applying the blood, had the picture of immersion and were led straight to the promise land but were not allowed to enter because they believed the lie that they could not overcome and take the land from the Giants who lived there...it was the PHYSICAL REST OF THE LAND that they did not attain by faith...the fact that they had been delivered from EGYPT (A PICTURE OF SIN AND THE BONDAGE OF SIN) did not change by their failure to acknowledge Joshua and Caleb....they were STILL GOD'S people and he provided for them in the wilderness while he prepared the next generation to take the land....this cannot be biblically compared to salvation...as the same principle rings true...a saved child of God can enter a rest found in this life by faith, as well as wander the wilderness because of sin or a lack of faith....

 

[dcontroversal]

While I agree 100% with this and know your heart DCON...I do believe it will be case that we will run, but we cannot hide....

I do not plan on dying tired from running...

Yeah...I think you should study the word KEEP in Revelation as applied unto the faithful chuch at Philly....and the fact that some will be hidden...and the words....we which are alive and REMAIN...

 

[stonesoffire]

Hi Stone,
Paul means for everyone to stop judging one another. If you want to do all those things great! If you don't great!

Yes, that's right D/rose. so why would anyone teach one must observe Sabbath?

 

[Stephen63]

They fell away from religion i.e. adhering to the Roman Church, to some other ism like atheism, agnosticism .....should I list them all?

It seems you're grasping for straws here.

Falling away can only mean those that are saved. Sinners were never lifted up, so there's no place to fall

 

[UnderGrace]

If you agree with the post then you agree with eternal salvation, they are one and the same.

Somebody get a calendar and red pen !!

I agree with the above.

But it's just a different way of saying what I Always say, which is this...:

God still DEMANDS that we keep the commandments. HE has not changed. There is only ONE God.

What HAS CHANGED is HOW we keep the commandments, or Law.

The New Covenant is a new way of keeping the Law.
With Love for Jesus and for our fellow man.
And the scriptures you list.

The problem I have with some posts is that they sound as if the person (you or Others) are saying that we are free and so do not have to keep the Law.

Why do I say this?
Because you and Others refuse to state that it is necessary to keep the Laws and to follow the teachings of Jesus.

This has to be CLEAR to someone who is a new Christian or who does not understanding the difference between being under the Law and following the Law - which was NOT abolished.

 

[stonesoffire]

Hi sonesoffire,

Nice to talk to you again. Good questions, These scriptures Paul is talking about the ceremonial laws v14 and the annual feast days which were held on new moons (any day of the week the feast days fell on) and food and drink offerings which were all shadows pointing to Jesus. You can read all about them in the books of Leviticus (23) and Deuteronomy.

Scripture support linked below;

Col 2 Shadows of things to come (1)
Col 2 Shadows of things to come (2)
Col 2 Shadows of things to come (3)


God bless

~There are some who would point to Colossians 2:16 as evidence that today the Christian is released by God from observing any holy day what-so-ever, that the 10 Commandments themselves were nailed to the cross. The main reason they cite this verse is to show that there is no need for the "New Testament" Christian to observe the biblical Sabbath day (Saturday), and that anyone who does advocate Sabbath keeping is a legalist and an enemy of salvation by grace alone. Usually though, they do not quote verse 17, and rarely if ever do the explain the relevance of verse 17.

One is a legalist when one is teaching that all must observe Saturday Sabbath and that Sunday worship is erroneous. The fact is that we are led by Holy Spirit now, not under laws that control behavior. And everyday is the Lords day. The day of Holy Spirit in the earth and His work among men. We worship Him every day...or all the time is more accurate. Out of our heart which is what He desires. That we love Him.

I can't click on the next two comments in this post. Don't know why. Will continue in another.

 

[PHart]

When I was a kid, I heard Korean war vets say they "could whip up on somebody, too, being old & 80 lbs overweight.

Lol, I was thinking the same thing. Physical training is like the word of God. If you don't use it you lose even what you think you have.

All of us fellows who were once fit and capable still think we are fit and capable thirty years and 40 pounds later, lol.

A couple of years after getting out of the service I took my fatigues down to the pawn shop to get a few bucks for them. The guy wouldn't take them because he said nobody will buy them because ex-service men are too fat for the sizes that people try to pawn off.

Us older men have to face it. We aren't what we used to be despite what we think.

 

[Stephen63]

Can you tell me how I can know I am not teaching false doctrine or believing in false doctrine? What can I do to not be one of the unlucky ones?

2 Timothy 2:15
​

New International Version
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

New Living Translation
Work hard so you can present yourself to God and receive his approval. Be a good worker, one who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly explains the word of truth.

English Standard Version
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

Berean Literal Bible
Hasten to present yourself approved to God, a workman not ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

New American Standard Bible
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

 

[UnderGrace]

My observation as well, speculating about others seems to be the gathering point for those who add to salvation.

when can you do that, is my point, when did you save your self, the part about faith is,you do not understand, because that faith ,is in someone else, ie a saviour.

speculating about others, is a waste of time, when free will ,has to understand and hold to a saviour that saves, etc

 

[Stephen63]

Believe Jesus and trust him at his word...He will...
a. Finish what he started
b. Never leave you or forsake you
c. Is the beginner and finisher of your faith
d. Your in The Father's hand, His Hand and sealed with the Spirit
e. And eternal/everlasting does not mean temporal

Yup, looks like He's doing it all so we don't have to.

BTW Bogadile, according to them, you have no choice in the matter, either.

 

[UnderGrace]

????

I was explaining a little more what Magenta was saying, if anybody should correct me it should be her, which I would welcome as a sister in Christ.

Love your pictures Magenta!!!

It seems you're grasping for straws here.

Falling away can only mean those that are saved. Sinners were never lifted up, so there's no place to fall

 

[dcontroversal]

When I was a kid, I heard Korean war vets say they "could whip up on somebody, too, being old & 80 lbs overweight.

Yeah I don't recall saying whip anyone...I said lethal and at 50 I am not overweight, chop, split wood by hand, manage 50 acres of woods, work 2 food plots for deer and turkey, hunt up and down 1200 foot Missouri hills and only eat twice a day............

 

[dcontroversal]

Yup, looks like He's doing it all so we don't have to.

BTW Bogadile, according to them, you have no choice in the matter, either.

Exactly why all glory goes to God......no man can boast....except for the workers for I suppose.....!

 

[Limey410v2]

I notice this in many posts: I love Jesus, & He loves me, therefore I know I'm alright.

But the thing is, every human that believes in God says this.

Ask a Mormon if they love God. Ask a Jehovah's witness if they love God. What would you think they would say?

So, does that really make the difference?

NO.

Just because they love God doesn't mean they're LIVING by faith.

Aaannnd, do you know what these others will/can say? "I love God, & my neighbor as myself, so I'm walking in obedience to God, & I'm alright."

NOT TRUE. No Mormon who does this has eternal life.

Neither is anyone else who says that if they're not walking in true doctrine.

The Bible declares that all false teachers & false prophets have their part in the Lake of Fire, no matter how much they say they love God or their neighbor.

Throughout this thread, everyone has argued their own side of what they believe, & most would agree that it's a MAJOR salvation doctrine argument.

Therefore, somebody's going to hell, aren't they?

I'm very glad you're not the judge.

 

[Limey410v2]

That's not true.

What do you think an apostate is?

One who commits apostasy.

 

[stonesoffire]

Hi Limey410v2

How many commandments are in God’s 10 commandments? Seems like you are getting the God's Law mixed up with the laws of Moses that were finished at the cross. These posts may help linked.

Gods Law and the laws of Moses (1)
Gods Law and the laws of Moses (2)

Shadows of things to come (1)
Shadows of things to come (2)
Shadows of things to come (3)

God bless you all

~

Paul is saying that the believing Christian need not keep the ceremonial laws, the shadow sabbaths, because they find fulfillment in faith in Jesus Christ, the true passover lamb. The schoolmaster was the yearly ceremonial sabbaths associated with the Hebrew Temple, which taught the plan of salvation through a coming Messiah, the passover lamb of God. Now that salvation through Jesus of Nazareth is clear to the Gentile church, there is no further need of the schoolmaster (the earthly Temple, its ceremonies and shadow sabbaths) because that lesson has been learned by those with faith. However, nowhere does the Bible indicate that one of the Ten Commandments has been abrogated, or that the disciples or Jesus abandoned the weekly Seventh-day Sabbath for Sunday keeping. Indeed the Bible makes clear, that in the future all believers will keep the true Seventh-day Sabbath-

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

LGF

Jesus gave a new commandment after His resurrection. To love others as He has loved us. That is more than the 70x7 type of forgiveness. We cannot judge or hold a grudge against any brother or sister. And for those in the world, we are to pray for. Do good to. This is character building of the inside which bears great fruit.

I do agree though that the Sabbath will be again reestablished in Ezekiels temple. The 1000 yr reign if this is being interpreted correctly I just am not sure of end time happenings. So in that manner it has not been abolished. But, the body of Christ will not be under law; should be overcomers with Jesus and will rule and reign with Him.

It is worship that brings us into the heavenlies, into the glory of God. The high praises! We sit down there in Christ Jesus, and with Him in His victory as a position of authority, His authority of His Name given to us.

So, whatever day it is...worship Him. Come freely before His throne in confidence of His work that makes us able to stand before Father, unashamed...shame can no longer "rest" upon us for it's taken away.

And laws are not needed for His body. Only the Head who is well able to make His will known to His members.

 

[tourist]

Lol, I was thinking the same thing. Physical training is like the word of God. If you don't use it you lose even what you think you have.

All of us fellows who were once fit and capable still think we are fit and capable thirty years and 40 pounds later, lol.

A couple of years after getting out of the service I took my fatigues down to the pawn shop to get a few bucks for them. The guy wouldn't take them because he said nobody will buy them because ex-service men are too fat for the sizes that people try to pawn off.

Us older men have to face it. We aren't what we used to be despite what we think.

If I still had my old fatigues and tried them on they would fall off me. My problem is not being overweight but rather underweight. I do exercise during each shift at work though. Probably burning off too many calories. Thinking protein drinks.

 

[stonesoffire]

my uncle...

he was the preacher of a church


now hes a new age agnostic type


who lives in fornication and drunkeness (pot smoking)
and is the singer of a rock band

last i spoke to him

he said God isnt real and Jesus wasnt God


but if he IS then he should be fine because he was saved already


hes an example of someone who believes once saved always saved


he was a baptist preacher


i still pray he turns back to Jesus

(i was too young to tell you what he believed back then.... wether it be work based or based on the sinners prayer or i dont know what.... but now it sounds to me like his belief was faith based)

I question his born again experience McGee..

He could be one of the three types of ground in the parable of the sower, and his heart hasn't become that good ground yet.

Pray for him. He's not yet dead.

 

[followjesus]

nope

im saying people who think what they DO saves them
mat.7-22
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


are decieved and place their faith in themselfs over Jesus

if you look at the verses all around that One bro, you see it actually IS about what the people are doing. its a matter of what are they doing. take a look

Matthew 7:21-27Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. ( the message hear is sayoing Jesus is Lord wont save anyone, but doing the Will of the Lord actually doing is the difference Gods will is found in the next few verses)
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. ( those who hear and also DO the Gospel) 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. ( those who hear the same and do not do the gospel)

these verses all go together. the Word of God is all about what we do. the reason we need to have faith, is that faith will move us to those actions. if we say i have faith Jesus is Lord, that wont save anyone. But to Have Faith and serve Jesus as Lord, by dong Gods will which is what Jesus was telling us in the four gospels all Hius teachings and commands those are the express, clear will of God. we can on one hand say were saved by faith, but that faith Has to be real or its just a word. faith that saves is to DO because we really believe.


its like if your most trusted friend told you theres a fortune buried in the front yard, its yours if your willing to dig it up. ....if you have faith in that person youll go dig up the fortune. if you dont, why waste your time digging.

thats the issue with the doctrine of no works. God has placed before us eternal Life, if we Believe Jesus like that most trusted One then well be fine but we have to believe what He says, what He taught, what conditions He places on it. if there is faith there will never be an argument against doing the works taught clearly and defined as life or death. its the same with the Judgement day. Jesus. Paul, peter, John all are clear that our judgement will be about Our deeds , what we Have done being given a new spirit and Life and faith.

what we dont do can destroy us, and what we dont do is because of what we refuse to believe.