Not By Works
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Hi stonesoffire
Good morning (my time),
Is one a legalist if they through love teach that we should repent from our sins because our sins will be the cause of our separation from God?
Is one a legalist if through love they teach the God’s Law as the great standard in the judgement where each one of us will stand before God for the things that we have done in this life, knowing that it is God’s Law that will bring the sinner to the Cross of Jesus where he can see the Love of God and by faith seek forgiveness for his/her sins (Rom 6:23; Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Gal 3:24)?
Is a person a legalist if they love Jesus and through faith in God’s Word and His Spirit working in them choose to follow what God’s Word says (Rom 8:4; Gal 5:16)?
Jesus says that the “Lords Day” is the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath not Sunday worship (Mark 2:28) and “If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:14). I follow Jesus not because it earns salvation but because I love Him. So am I a legalist?
God bless you.
Good morning (my time),
Is one a legalist if they through love teach that we should repent from our sins because our sins will be the cause of our separation from God?
Is one a legalist if through love they teach the God’s Law as the great standard in the judgement where each one of us will stand before God for the things that we have done in this life, knowing that it is God’s Law that will bring the sinner to the Cross of Jesus where he can see the Love of God and by faith seek forgiveness for his/her sins (Rom 6:23; Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Gal 3:24)?
Is a person a legalist if they love Jesus and through faith in God’s Word and His Spirit working in them choose to follow what God’s Word says (Rom 8:4; Gal 5:16)?
Jesus says that the “Lords Day” is the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath not Sunday worship (Mark 2:28) and “If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:14). I follow Jesus not because it earns salvation but because I love Him. So am I a legalist?
God bless you.
False doctrine and the counterfeit Gospel?
It is a message that tries to separate Gods forever Law (the 10 commandments Ex 20:1-18) from faith in Christ for salvation.
Why is God's Law important to helping someone to have faith in Christ alone?
Because it is only through the Law of God (10 commandments) that any of us have a knowledge of what sin is (1John 3:4; Rom 3:20; 24). If we do away with God's Law we have no knowledge of sin. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a savior. If we have no need of a savior we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost. "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." (Rom 2:12).
God's Law shows us that we are sinners in need of a savior. God's Law was given to us that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God (Rom 3:19). It shows us that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves from this disease that we have within us so that we can by Faith lay hold of the promises of God's Words so that Jesus can save us from our sins. Jesus did not come to save the righteous (those that think they do not need saving) but sinners (those that know their need of saving) (Matt 9:12-13; Mark 2:17; Luke 5:32) God's Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ. It will be the basis of the judgement where we will all be accountable to God.
The Law of God is the only way of showing us who we truly are, sinners in need of a Savior and in this condition we can see for the first time Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood and by faith only lay hold of the promises of Gods Word. (2Pet 1:4) It is here as we believe God, that he changes us from living a life of breaking God's Law to a life of walking with him. It is through the operation of God through Love because he first loved us that we follow Jesus not for salvation but because of love. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh (carnal sinful mind) but after the spirit and why Jesus says to his followers, "If you love me keep the commandments" (John 14:15).
People cannot see that this is the operation of God in the believer and assume God's people believe they are saved by their works, when in fact Jesus is saving us from our sins to walk in newness of life in fulfilment of His new Covenant promise (Heb 8:10-12)...... Gods Sheep hear His Voice salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's Law (1John 3:4) whosoever is living in sin has neither seen him nor known him (1John 3:6)
God bless you all.
It is a message that tries to separate Gods forever Law (the 10 commandments Ex 20:1-18) from faith in Christ for salvation.
Why is God's Law important to helping someone to have faith in Christ alone?
Because it is only through the Law of God (10 commandments) that any of us have a knowledge of what sin is (1John 3:4; Rom 3:20; 24). If we do away with God's Law we have no knowledge of sin. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a savior. If we have no need of a savior we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost. "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." (Rom 2:12).
God's Law shows us that we are sinners in need of a savior. God's Law was given to us that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God (Rom 3:19). It shows us that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves from this disease that we have within us so that we can by Faith lay hold of the promises of God's Words so that Jesus can save us from our sins. Jesus did not come to save the righteous (those that think they do not need saving) but sinners (those that know their need of saving) (Matt 9:12-13; Mark 2:17; Luke 5:32) God's Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ. It will be the basis of the judgement where we will all be accountable to God.
The Law of God is the only way of showing us who we truly are, sinners in need of a Savior and in this condition we can see for the first time Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood and by faith only lay hold of the promises of Gods Word. (2Pet 1:4) It is here as we believe God, that he changes us from living a life of breaking God's Law to a life of walking with him. It is through the operation of God through Love because he first loved us that we follow Jesus not for salvation but because of love. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh (carnal sinful mind) but after the spirit and why Jesus says to his followers, "If you love me keep the commandments" (John 14:15).
People cannot see that this is the operation of God in the believer and assume God's people believe they are saved by their works, when in fact Jesus is saving us from our sins to walk in newness of life in fulfilment of His new Covenant promise (Heb 8:10-12)...... Gods Sheep hear His Voice salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's Law (1John 3:4) whosoever is living in sin has neither seen him nor known him (1John 3:6)
God bless you all.
Hi Grace777,
This is an interesting topic looking at the fall of mankind in the Garden of Eden. Here is another side to this story see if you can get the meaning?
Gen 3:1,
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2-3,
And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4,
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5,
God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Key points from scripture:
· The original deceiver the devil (v1)
· Eve told the serpent that God commanded them not to touch or eat the fruit lest they die (v 2-3)
· The serpent lied to Eve saying that you will not surely die if you don’t do what God asks. You will be like God knowing good and evil (v 4-5).
Putting it all together:
The fall of mankind was from the original lie (John 8:44; 1John 3:8). When God commanded mankind to follow him lest they die. The Devil’’s original lie was that you can break God’s Law and not die. The teachings of many false religions today is the same as the original lie. If God asks us to do something and you do not do it…. “Ye shall not surely die” (Gen 3:4). But God's Word says we will die if we break God's Law (Rom 6:23) Who do we follow God or man?
Ok off to work for me....
God bless you all
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Jesus called people to repentance at the very beginning of His earthly ministry... it is about turning from our rebellion against God, a giving up the ways of the world to follow after Him. It is something we are called to do and the choice is ours to make even as God makes it possible
the point john was telling them to get baptised by water, being jewish they had to take an animal to the temple for forgiveness. so change was being made. to the jewish belief system. before everyone eyes etc
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No person says Jesus is Lord,but by the Holy Ghost,and a person that confesses Jesus Christ is come in flesh is of God.
One thing about OSAS,sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus.
If people confess Christ,and post on this website in a rude manner,cutting people down,and posting from the flesh,and being annoying,why do the OSAS people say anything to them.
Leave the people alone.
If they confess Christ,and sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus,then why do OSAS people go against them,for if sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus,then Jesus does not care if they sin,and is not going against them,so then why does the OSAS people go against them.
The OSAS could say nothing concerning those that confess Christ if there is any sin they are doing,or posting in a ill,and inappropiate manner,for sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus.
Leave these people alone.
If a person confesses Christ,and posts they are homosexual,why do the OSAS people go against them if sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus.
Why do they go against those that say keep the physical sabbath day,if sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus.
For all sin can be forgiven,but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit,so if a person confesses Jesus as Lord,and Savior,and come in flesh,but does not believe as the OSAS,why do they go against them if sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus.
If sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus,then Jesus does not care if they sin,and is not going against them,for sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus,and if Jesus is not going against them,then why do the OSAS always saved people go against them.
No person says Jesus is Lord,but by the Holy Ghost,and if a person confesses Jesus Christ is come in flesh is of God,so whether they believe OSAS,or not,if they believe those things,then God is working in their life,so leave these people alone,for sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus.
Jesus is not going against them,so why are the OSAS people going against them,for they could post according to the flesh all day long,and belittle,and cut down,and be annoying,but it is alright,because sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus.
Leave these people alone,for Jesus said it is alright,for if Jesus did not say it is alright,then sin would affect their relationship with Jesus,then the OSAS would have to reconsider their beliefs.
But the truth is we have a choice,for the fact that we are still tempted when we receive the Spirit proves we still have a choice,and many are called,and few are chosen,which is why not everyone that says Lord,Lord,will enter heaven,for they were called,and God working in their life,but they were not chosen,because they would not give up all sin,but wanted to hold unto some sins,and worldliness.
Which those that name the name of Christ have to depart from iniquity,and awake to righteousness,and sin not,but not all have the knowledge of God,and Paul speaks this to their shame,and do not depart from the living God,by the deceitfulness of sin.
But if it is OSAS,and a person does not believe in OSAS,but confesses Jesus as Lord and Savior,and post in a rude,and inappropiate manner,belittling people,then leave those people alone,for sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus,so they are alright.
Leave these people alone,or will you fight against Jesus that said it is alright if they sin,for they still are right with Me.
The Bible is very popular in the world,for many people believe it holds truth,even if they do not believe that the whole of it holds truth.
The Buddhist will interpret it as such,the Hinduist as such,the occultist as such,the pagan as such,the prejudice as such,and so forth with people that have a belief not part of the Bible,but incoporate it into the Bible,resulting in many different interpretations of the Bible,and many different Christian denominations.
That is why it is so popular for so many people believe it holds truth,but incoporate their beliefs,and wants,in to the Bible.
If it were clear cut,the true interpretation,and what the world believes,and the world could only see the Bible in the truth,and no way else,then it would be either believe or not believe,not all these different interpretations,and Christian denominations,and the Bible would not be so popular.
The Bible plainly states that sin does affect our relationship with Jesus,but if there was no way to misinterpret the Bible,but believe or not believe,I believe a lot of people that believe sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus would not believe the Bible.
For that is what caused many to accept the Bible,and confess Christ,because of the belief sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus,for they like the ways of the flesh,and worldliness,so they accepted because they liked the belief that they cannot ever fall,and cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus.
Like the occultist that will not hear it any way but according to spiritual evolution when reading the Bible,some people cannot accept the Bible unless they can read it according to the flesh,that they can enjoy the world,but still be right with Jesus.
God wants all people to repent,come to the knowledge of the truth,and be saved,and those that name the name of Christ has to depart from iniquity,and awake to righteousness,and sin not,but not all have the knowledge of God,and Paul speaks that to their shame,and work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,for we still have a choice,and must choose to keep ourselves right with God,for the Spirit will not twist our arm to live for God.
But if it is OSAS,and a person believes Jesus is Lord and Savior,come in flesh,but does not believe OSAS,then leave these people alone,for sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus,if you believe they are acting in a wrong manner.
One thing about OSAS,sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus.
If people confess Christ,and post on this website in a rude manner,cutting people down,and posting from the flesh,and being annoying,why do the OSAS people say anything to them.
Leave the people alone.
If they confess Christ,and sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus,then why do OSAS people go against them,for if sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus,then Jesus does not care if they sin,and is not going against them,so then why does the OSAS people go against them.
The OSAS could say nothing concerning those that confess Christ if there is any sin they are doing,or posting in a ill,and inappropiate manner,for sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus.
Leave these people alone.
If a person confesses Christ,and posts they are homosexual,why do the OSAS people go against them if sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus.
Why do they go against those that say keep the physical sabbath day,if sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus.
For all sin can be forgiven,but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit,so if a person confesses Jesus as Lord,and Savior,and come in flesh,but does not believe as the OSAS,why do they go against them if sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus.
If sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus,then Jesus does not care if they sin,and is not going against them,for sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus,and if Jesus is not going against them,then why do the OSAS always saved people go against them.
No person says Jesus is Lord,but by the Holy Ghost,and if a person confesses Jesus Christ is come in flesh is of God,so whether they believe OSAS,or not,if they believe those things,then God is working in their life,so leave these people alone,for sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus.
Jesus is not going against them,so why are the OSAS people going against them,for they could post according to the flesh all day long,and belittle,and cut down,and be annoying,but it is alright,because sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus.
Leave these people alone,for Jesus said it is alright,for if Jesus did not say it is alright,then sin would affect their relationship with Jesus,then the OSAS would have to reconsider their beliefs.
But the truth is we have a choice,for the fact that we are still tempted when we receive the Spirit proves we still have a choice,and many are called,and few are chosen,which is why not everyone that says Lord,Lord,will enter heaven,for they were called,and God working in their life,but they were not chosen,because they would not give up all sin,but wanted to hold unto some sins,and worldliness.
Which those that name the name of Christ have to depart from iniquity,and awake to righteousness,and sin not,but not all have the knowledge of God,and Paul speaks this to their shame,and do not depart from the living God,by the deceitfulness of sin.
But if it is OSAS,and a person does not believe in OSAS,but confesses Jesus as Lord and Savior,and post in a rude,and inappropiate manner,belittling people,then leave those people alone,for sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus,so they are alright.
Leave these people alone,or will you fight against Jesus that said it is alright if they sin,for they still are right with Me.
The Bible is very popular in the world,for many people believe it holds truth,even if they do not believe that the whole of it holds truth.
The Buddhist will interpret it as such,the Hinduist as such,the occultist as such,the pagan as such,the prejudice as such,and so forth with people that have a belief not part of the Bible,but incoporate it into the Bible,resulting in many different interpretations of the Bible,and many different Christian denominations.
That is why it is so popular for so many people believe it holds truth,but incoporate their beliefs,and wants,in to the Bible.
If it were clear cut,the true interpretation,and what the world believes,and the world could only see the Bible in the truth,and no way else,then it would be either believe or not believe,not all these different interpretations,and Christian denominations,and the Bible would not be so popular.
The Bible plainly states that sin does affect our relationship with Jesus,but if there was no way to misinterpret the Bible,but believe or not believe,I believe a lot of people that believe sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus would not believe the Bible.
For that is what caused many to accept the Bible,and confess Christ,because of the belief sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus,for they like the ways of the flesh,and worldliness,so they accepted because they liked the belief that they cannot ever fall,and cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus.
Like the occultist that will not hear it any way but according to spiritual evolution when reading the Bible,some people cannot accept the Bible unless they can read it according to the flesh,that they can enjoy the world,but still be right with Jesus.
God wants all people to repent,come to the knowledge of the truth,and be saved,and those that name the name of Christ has to depart from iniquity,and awake to righteousness,and sin not,but not all have the knowledge of God,and Paul speaks that to their shame,and work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,for we still have a choice,and must choose to keep ourselves right with God,for the Spirit will not twist our arm to live for God.
But if it is OSAS,and a person believes Jesus is Lord and Savior,come in flesh,but does not believe OSAS,then leave these people alone,for sin does not affect their relationship with Jesus,if you believe they are acting in a wrong manner.
its salvation to believe and understand Bruce that God sent His Only begotten Son, whos name is Jesus to save the World. Nor try to alter that truth by claiming God came, was tempted, put His own soirit on Himself, called Himself the Son of God, died was raised to life, and then had to exalt Himself to sit Beside Himself lol Jesus is the Son of God there is no other way to salvation but to Believe that. to deny that God sent His Only begotten Son is probably part of the reason you fell for the gog after all it teaches you that God died, God was tempted, God has no son, but rather was just pulling a roos and pretending to Be Gods Only Son. ill keep My Faith In Jesus The Only begotten Son of God, who right now sits Beside God on the throne having overcome and offered eternal Life. for you to somehow Condemn the statement " Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God" only shows again how far off you really are when the Bible is all about God sending Hos Only Son Jesus, to save those who would Believe in the name of Gods Only Begotten Son. <<<<< His name is Jesus. but again thos is the same argument that you and a couple others always go back to.
if i were you i would accept that Jesus is the Christ, and Gods Only begotten Son. Jesus who served God, worshipped God, prayed to God, hinored and obeyed God, Called God His God, was raised By God, to sit at Gods right Hand. id believe in the Son of God maybe then you might find the gospel. and you should certainly not try to accuse someone who Believes this
John 3;16-18 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
That pretty simple stuff God sent Jesus His Son to Save the World. or did God pretend to be his own son and come Himself? naw im pretty sure He sent His Only Son to save us.....yeah ill stick with that simplicity because thats what the Bible is all about. either God sent His Son, or He didnt. I will believe He sent Jesus His Son Like the Word repeats until it cant really be misunderstood.
what covenant did he die for. so that there is a new covenant. and what covenant were you born into, if a new covenant is in place.
therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant
15 T, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant
therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant
15 T, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant
Hi Grace777,
This is an interesting topic looking at the fall of mankind in the Garden of Eden. Here is another side to this story see if you can get the meaning?
Gen 3:1,
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2-3,
And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4,
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5,
God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Key points from scripture:
· The original deceiver the devil (v1)
· Eve told the serpent that God commanded them not to touch or eat the fruit lest they die (v 2-3)
· The serpent lied to Eve saying that you will not surely die if you don’t do what God asks. You will be like God knowing good and evil (v 4-5).
Putting it all together:
The fall of mankind was from the original lie (John 8:44; 1John 3:8). When God commanded mankind to follow him lest they die. The Devil’’s original lie was that you can break God’s Law and not die. The teachings of many false religions today is the same as the original lie. If God asks us to do something and you do not do it…. “Ye shall not surely die” (Gen 3:4). But God's Word says we will die if we break God's Law (Rom 6:23) Who do we follow God or man?
Ok off to work for me....
God bless you all
thats good stuff. the serpent still speaks through false doctrine. it will always be the doctrines discouraging repentance from sin and obedience to the Word of God. God will never suggest that we arent rewuired to repent and obey His Word. people without the spirit see that as an oppression like " I have faith, i dont need to repent stop sinning and learn and obey God, all because im saved by Faith otherwise if i have to also stop sinning and obey God im still a slave" they see this as the people at horeb did because there still seeing from the flesh. repentance and obedience is impossible to some, because they have no understanding of what the Holy spirit is saying because they continue following the flesh, so they have to come up with subtle ways to defend the acts of the Flesh.
good stuff there the simplest way to discern a false doctrine, is any doctrine that allows for continuing in disobedience to God, and lessens the importance of Obeying God. thats a sure fire false doctrine, God will never encourage anything But repentance from sin, and righteousness in deed. its crazy to read sometimes in places like this to see Hiw many differeing views are shown, Highlights Just how apostate the World is getting and How many false doctrines have come forth to deceive as many as possible.
The devil really is clever some think Hes saying " worship me im satan lets all go to hell together"........but really He targets Believers with twisted versions of Gods Word that actually go completely against whats really said. if He can convince a believer that sin isnt a big deal, your saved anyways, hes won thier soul and He knows it. Hes actually quite pleasant has kind words to say sems to be a good guy, He lures and goes in circles to avoid the truth about repentance and righteousness has a hundred different reasons why this doesnt apply or that doesnt mean what it says. terrible to see Butthank God for those who see His ways and understand How clever and subtle He is, and that satan uses scripture like He tried to do with Jesus.
looks like back to bible school for down under,
acts 15 separates and 70ad separates.
called by grace separates.
4 And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers.15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,16
jesus separates.
21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.
17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousnessreign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
and faith separates.
if it is a free gift ,when did you earn it.
acts 15 separates and 70ad separates.
called by grace separates.
4 And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers.15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,16
jesus separates.
21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.
17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousnessreign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
and faith separates.
if it is a free gift ,when did you earn it.