Not By Works

followjesus · Jul 27, 2017

The thing is this what is sin or rather when is sin reckoned upon a man.

james 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

sin is based on the persons awareness of right and wrong. you arent accountable for what i know, and oim not accountable for what you Know. its between you. Jesus, and God the Father. and is based on what we grasp as we learn Gods Word. we Know what sin is by the Law, yet many do not have any understanding of the Law. we cant pretend we dont Know what we know because Gods spirit is there within us He knows exactly what we Know in our conscience. and that is where we hear from God thats the pledge of a clear conscience we walk in.

1 peter 3:20-22 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21The like figure where unto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

thats what baptism is about, it reflects back to a time BEFORE the Law was given. Our pledge of a clear conscience is to act according to what we Know and grasp. I guess what im saying is repentance happens as our understanding Grows, so does our need to repent. because sin is doing what we Know is wrong, or rather Not doing what we Know is right, as our Knowledge Grows as we Seek in the word and in prayer God brings things to light in our conscience and makes us aware that were sinning with whatever behavior. when we repent of that and continue growing more comes up as we follow repentance and grow in Knowledge which grows our consciousnes of sin so that we are able to repent of sin.

so a person who isnt yet finished, is still blameless as they keep in step with the spirit. in my past i was a truly terrible sinner. I was already aware of some things i was doing being sin because ive studied so much of the word for so long. when i came into the repentance season. My conscience went through a one thing at a time process. drinking and fighting in bars on the weekend that used to be a hobby something that was a sport really for me. i became so convicted of how terrible that was, and through that conviction i came th=o the thought " How can i pretend to be a christian when this is something i do and rather enjoy?

there was so much regret, so much true sorrow for my sin. I stopped drinking all together, and started learning to be a peacemaker rather than a trouble maker. when i made the decision to stop and actually wuit doing that. the guilt, shame sorrow just disappeared. from the decision came the action and from the action came the cleansing. Now days i hate when people fight, truly see it as foolishness and have no inclination to even fight when someone offends me. it changed my Heart through that repentance. i felt like i had really accomplished something through the spirit and the Word.

i felt justified now like i was finished, then though another behavior popped into my conscience, same thing i dealt with it through Gods Word and conviction, again and again that process grows. each time i think well im finally finished things i never even realized were wrong, come to my mind because i find them in the word where i had read them before, and not seen them now they sticj out and i cant miss them.

I guess what im saying is as we keep in step, were righteous even though we arent finished yet. our conscience needs to remain clear as we remaoin in the word and as we repent through that process. for me anyways its not a finished thing. its more of when im conscious im in the wrong, the need is repentance because it affects my prayer life when im convicted. it doesnt feel as intimate. but when i have a good conscience knowing God is pleased, prayer is so much more powerful because i know that i know that i know God is right there listening with a pleased Heart toward me. but when something comes to mind i need to deal with, i know he lves and hears me but that conviction rides in me and is present in prayer. as if God is saying i love you you know that and im here listening, but go deal with this thing, its now time for you to get rid of this....

ongoing process sorry for the length here i have issues saying things in few words God bless

stonesoffire · Jul 27, 2017

Mr. New Yorker..

look at these scriptures please:

~1Co 3:6　 I planted, Apollos watered, but God kept everything growing.　

1Co 3:7　 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is significant, but God, who keeps everything growing, is the one who matters.
　
1Co 3:8　 The one who plants and the one who waters have the same goal, and each will receive a reward for his own action.　

1Co 3:9　 For we are God's co-workers. You are God's farmland and God's building.　

1Co 3:10　 As an expert builder using the grace that God gave me, I laid the foundation, and someone else is building on it. But each person must be careful how he builds on it.　

1Co 3:11　 After all, no one can lay any other foundation than the one that is already laid, and that is Jesus the Messiah.　(said also in Colossians 1) look at the greek of those scriptures

1Co 3:12　 Whether a person builds on this foundation with gold, silver, expensive stones, wood, hay, or straw,
　
1Co 3:13　 the workmanship of each person will become evident, for the day of judgment will show what it is, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's action.　

1Co 3:14　 If what a person has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
　
1Co 3:15　 If his work is burned up, he will suffer loss. However, he himself will be saved, but it will be like going through fire.
　
1Co 3:16　 You know that you are God's sanctuary and that God's Spirit lives in you, don't you?
　
1Co 3:17　 If anyone destroys God's sanctuary, God will destroy him, for God's sanctuary is holy. And you are that sanctuary!　

1Co 3:18　 Let no one deceive himself. If any of you thinks he is wise in the ways of this world, he must become a fool to become really wise.
　
1Co 3:19　 For the wisdom of this world is nonsense in God's sight. For it is written, "He catches the wise with their own trickery,"　

1Co 3:20　 and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are worthless."　

1Co 3:21　 So let no one boast about human beings, since everything belongs to you,　

1Co 3:22　 whether Paul, Apollos, Cephas, the world, life, death, the present, or the future—everything belongs to you,
　
1Co 3:23　 but you belong to the Messiah, and the Messiah belongs to God.　

stonesoffire · Jul 27, 2017

followjesus

will address your post after feeding animals here.

Ariel82 · Jul 27, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

Yes he also tests us to teach us patience.

The question is what does God do if you fail a test?

Give up on you?

or teach you more of His wisdom and give you His grace and forgiveness?

Stephen63 · Jul 27, 2017

dcontroversal said:

It looks like you never read my post.

If you did, it musta been thru gog colored glasses.

Stephen63 · Jul 27, 2017

UnderGrace said:

Exactly, Faith is not an ongoing work to keep salvation.

How much faith saves?

It takes a certain amount of self-righteousness to believe one can have enough faith to save oneself.

That is why salvation comes completely from God by Grace.....none of us can boast.

If one makes faith a work then one has some part in their own salvation.

It is insulting to the work of the cross and it demonstrates a lack of understanding of what it means to be justified.

I'm getting a small idea of what wearing out the saints is about.

stonesoffire · Jul 27, 2017

followjesus said:

I don't disagree with the Word working on us within. It's one way we are chastened. And yes, the Word is for our instruction in walking upright before the Lord and man. Righteousness is imputed though. It's right standing with God our Father, through His Son, our Lord. Upright is a different term.

We are chastened by the Word, as mentioned. We are broken when we see the Lord in truth. For the goodness of the Lord causes us to repent. I believe this is by revelation either preached, or seen in scripture. I've had this a few times.

But, if one lives in the flesh or the human nature...one will die. I believe before this would happen, that He would hem us in..allow us to be in such a tight position that it would be nothing but complete disobedience to His love being shown by His protecting..that there would be no other option than to take one home.

And I don't think this happens very often. Or at all. Brokenness is enough..for how can one resist Him when we see His nature...which is pure love.

followjesus · Jul 27, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

the health of a fruit tree is seen in the health of the fruit it bears. in a orchard the trees that are diseased or do not Yeild fruit are removed so thier disease cant spread to the other trees and infect the fruit theron and ruin the orchard. Kind of Like How the Law removed the sinner so that thier sins wouldnt spread to the whole camp of israel. and How Jesus will remove out of His Kingdom all who do and encourage evil.

matthew 13:40-43 "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

stonesoffire · Jul 27, 2017

Stephen63 said:

I said the same thing just a few days ago. But, it was because so many Christians I know are sick. And unusual sicknesses.

followjesus · Jul 27, 2017

stonesoffire said:

"For the goodness of the Lord causes us to repent. "

2 corinthains 7:10 "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death

this is what the prodigal experienced. can you possibly show a single scripture that says Knowing God is good causes repentance? 1 verse that makes a statement like this? if the prodiagal had not felt sorry, he would never have went Home. Knowing God is Good, is a good thing, thinking Hes so Good hell never keep His word about sin being judged is not. denying the principles in Gods Word is not good at all. if the prodiagal didnt repent He would never have been welcomed Home.

And he said, A certain man had two sons: 12And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living. 13And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. 14And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.

15And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. 16And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.

17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 18I will arise and go to my father, <<< (this decision changed His life) and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, 19And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

20And he arose, <<< (this action came from that decision) and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. 21And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

22But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: 23And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 24For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Just as paul teaches the prodiagals sorrow is what Led to His repentance and going Home. notice that the prodigals action mattered. though the Father Loved Him before and after He left, the prodigals choice was His own. Both to leave and sell His life on sinful living, and also to come to terms with what His actions were responsable for.... His circumstance. the prodigal turned and began the journey Home because he " came to himself" or realized what He had done and that His father would take Him back as a servant though he was not worthy anymore to be a son.

repentance comes when we stop denying what the word says of it, and after sorrow works repentance. How do you suppose the prodigal felt thinking hed beg His way to be a servant , Yet His Father ran to meet Him hugged and kissed Him was too busy telling His servants to go get the best robe, ring and shoes and have a celebration because His Son came Home, to even care about His plan of explaining his actions? Im thinking He was probably overcome with the depth of His Fathers Love at this point probably broke down in tears of Joy and releif. sorrow for sin leads to Joy and peace when we follow and repent. God is Good now, then and always we still are commanded to repent, nothing anyone can say will ever change whats there.

ive always Known Gods goodness that He Loved me. that doesnt cause repentance though, the sorrow for living contrary to God the Fathers will Knowing He loves us is what works repentance grace is not everything its One principle among many Gods graciousness sent Jesus to us, Jesus had alot to say to us before the cross. if Hes Lord then His word should carry more wieght than anyones.

Luke 13:3 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Gotta actually repent of sin, in order to do that we have to accept what the word says of it, that will bring the godly sorrow required when a person accepts the Word of God, given through the Savior

dcontroversal · Jul 27, 2017

Meggido said:

Did you notice how he changed his wording......he used to say that righteousness is not transferred anywhere in the bible and I consistently ripped that lie with what is said by David in Romans 4 and the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness without the deeds of the law (works) and now he has changed it to VIRTUE.....man....very deceitful......

followjesus · Jul 27, 2017

Stephen63 said:

do you notice How it always goes Back to the faith in the Cross, rather than Faith in Jesus Christ? One one Hand our faith is in Jesus, but what He said though, thats not for us. its a strange way to treat the King when His word doesnt carry the wieght and authority over His Kingdom. when we Know this of a Kings decrees

esther 8:8 "Write ye also for the Jews, as it liketh you, in the king's name, and seal itwith the king's ring: for the writing which is written in the king's name, and sealed with the king's ring, may no man reverse.

the Gospel is that decree of Our King that no one may ever change written in His name, and sealed with His blood. the dangers of false doctrine can change a mind and Heart that would be free

dcontroversal · Jul 27, 2017

followjesus said:

Paul said, "That if he was going to glory, he would glory in the CROSS of Christ"

Or did I imagine him saying that..........funny thing.....Paul is usually ignored, denied, questioned as legit and or twisted so far out of context that it does not even come close to what he actually said.....most of the time by those who push a working for, sinless dogma for salvation I ight add.......!

followjesus · Jul 27, 2017

FranC said:

the Gospel is the Christian Law, it teaches and enables us to keep the Law of God. cleanses the heart because thats where the problem exists. its obvious the hg doctrine is of the same flesh as those at Horeb. they see Gods ways as an oppression and an impossibility because they are seeing it through the veil of ongoing rebellion like israel. they will say Gods good, yet what God says of right and wrong doesnt apply. tho hes good His ways and instructions arent. satan will always work to remove the morality and law of God. it will never change.

any doctrine that insists Gods Law doesnt apply ( the ten commandments) or the Gospel doesnt apply ( Jesus minisrty) its false and will never lead to salvation. remenber He is crafty and also quotes scripture. even tried to use scripture to Get Jesus to transgress. satan Knows scripture as well He just uses it against People while telling them its a new way of understanding. thats why Gods Word is so important to discern prayerfully and not by following a mega pastors newest book of revelation.

royalscot · Jul 27, 2017

dcontroversal said:

did you notice, a computer, has no function without air. yet yesterdays posts ,of return to the vomit of speculation , when did air cut off, human speculation, when did air provide speculation, to the reason, you need to eat, when did air make a no fly zone, so speculation can fly a rich mans plane, when did speculation say , there will be,no snow balls in hell, etc

followjesus · Jul 27, 2017

dcontroversal said:

how does that change anything else though dc? paul never said forget the word of God and worship the cross. when He said He gloried in the cross its because the cross reconciled God to the whole world. that doesnt then mean nothing else applies is the thing. YES we do have to believe that Jesus died for our sins to bring us to God, thats not debatable. but that also is not all we are to believe. that is the beginning as we go, we have to grow and move forward from the cross and start looking at walking out of the empty tomb also. the cross was a terrible day for Jesus, yet the most glorious day for the World.

Not because now were all already saved, but because the world pror to the cross was alienated from God nothing we could have done would have ever made a difference we were dead inside because of sin. so Jesus died in order to free us from what had alienated us from God for the sin living inside of mankind.

None of this changes the rest of whats there. there is no valid reason to omit the entirety of the gospel. it starts by first believing He died for us rose and ascended and sits there now still advocating for us. this doesnt then exclude what the bible is flooded with about our role in this. all of the nt is written by the church, to the church.

Grace is 1 aspect of Gods nature. that scriupture there you seem to have an issue with is Jesus Christ saying plainly what the end will bring, its not against you, or against grace, its Love for you that He explains that principle so clearly again and again, even paul says the same in romans 2 its not avaoidable really in the scripture. thats Gods Love as well warning us thoroughly of whats coming so that we dont get the idea that nothing matters and our sin is ok. or were not commanded By GOD to repent of sin. thats Love its Like if you tell your son, stop injecting poison into your veins because " this is what will happen in the end"

Gods Love is not going to leave us in the dark. Grace is A true principle of God it is not all that applies however. sure im overwhelmed that Jesus suffered the cross to bring me to the throne and make a relationship with God all because He Loved me. But now though its My choice being enabled By the spirit to Hear God and obey Him that also because of what Jesus did.

the work of the cross ends in us being obedient children to God, not resting on the fact Jesus obeyed God to the cross. i dont dis regard that im thankful for it, therefore I will honor His will from gratitude, i will praise His name from gratitude, at times i will weep from the soprrow of what He endured for me, because of Jesus i give my Life to God wholely that means if i have to let go of things i enjoy or do that i dont mind and God almighty says its wrong, do this other thing son. thats my life to obey God and Know its for my eternal good. not an oppression. until we accept it well never get anywhere. faith changes by what we accept accepting the repentance and obedience stuff is the greatest decision anyone can ever make to act because of the " cross" live because of the One who went to the cross and lives now for us.

theres never one principle that answers everyuthing. the scriptures you quote often are all true scriptures but they then dont make everything else irrelevant its all for our good. so instead of picking and choosing, accept all of what paul said even the stuff that makes clear about repentance from the actions of the flesh galatians 5 ephesians 5 just 2 places paul said those things to.

glory in the cross, and glorify God with your Life actions and all

Ariel82 · Jul 27, 2017

Dcon....always found these verses interesting use of the word "virtue". I believe it also translates as "power".

Luke 8:43-48King James Version (KJV)

43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.

45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.

47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.

48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

royalscot · Jul 27, 2017

the problem with big brothers, we have no time with petty debates, we fight for the air, , hope this helps with your kids and how to train them, my big brother said all , and when he said all,he means all, you can control there bottom dollar, when you can provide the air you need, before you die, what air do you need to walk though the valley of death.( 23 alms)

royalscot · Jul 27, 2017

followjesus said:

how does that change anything else though dc? paul never said forget the word of God and worship the cross. when He said He gloried in the cross its because the cross reconciled God to the whole world. that doesnt then mean nothing else applies is the thing. YES we do have to believe that Jesus died for our sins to bring us to God, thats not debatable. but that also is not all we are to believe. that is the beginning as we go, we have to grow and move forward from the cross and start looking at walking out of the empty tomb also. the cross was a terrible day for Jesus, yet the most glorious day for the World.

Not because now were all already saved, but because the world pror to the cross was alienated from God nothing we could have done would have ever made a difference we were dead inside because of sin. so Jesus died in order to free us from what had alienated us from God for the sin living inside of mankind.

None of this changes the rest of whats there. there is no valid reason to omit the entirety of the gospel. it starts by first believing He died for us rose and ascended and sits there now still advocating for us. this doesnt then exclude what the bible is flooded with about our role in this. all of the nt is written by the church, to the church.

Grace is 1 aspect of Gods nature. that scriupture there you seem to have an issue with is Jesus Christ saying plainly what the end will bring, its not against you, or against grace, its Love for you that He explains that principle so clearly again and again, even paul says the same in romans 2 its not avaoidable really in the scripture. thats Gods Love as well warning us thoroughly of whats coming so that we dont get the idea that nothing matters and our sin is ok. or were not commanded By GOD to repent of sin. thats Love its Like if you tell your son, stop injecting poison into your veins because " this is what will happen in the end"

Gods Love is not going to leave us in the dark. Grace is A true principle of God it is not all that applies however. sure im overwhelmed that Jesus suffered the cross to bring me to the throne and make a relationship with God all because He Loved me. But now though its My choice being enabled By the spirit to Hear God and obey Him that also because of what Jesus did.

the work of the cross ends in us being obedient children to God, not resting on the fact Jesus obeyed God to the cross. i dont dis regard that im thankful for it, therefore I will honor His will from gratitude, i will praise His name from gratitude, at times i will weep from the soprrow of what He endured for me, because of Jesus i give my Life to God wholely that means if i have to let go of things i enjoy or do that i dont mind and God almighty says its wrong, do this other thing son. thats my life to obey God and Know its for my eternal good. not an oppression. until we accept it well never get anywhere. faith changes by what we accept accepting the repentance and obedience stuff is the greatest decision anyone can ever make to act because of the " cross" live because of the One who went to the cross and lives now for us.

theres never one principle that answers everyuthing. the scriptures you quote often are all true scriptures but they then dont make everything else irrelevant its all for our good. so instead of picking and choosing, accept all of what paul said even the stuff that makes clear about repentance from the actions of the flesh galatians 5 ephesians 5 just 2 places paul said those things to.

glory in the cross, and glorify God with your Life actions and all

we always found a fool, that needs to post with out proof a liar, but a fool that post, and kills all his family and there self a bigger fool.

Ariel82 · Jul 27, 2017

Hmmm....carbon monoxide....

Or perhaps nitrous oxide?

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