Not By Works

[JIMBO43]

Grace is given based on the work of Christ. It takes trust in Christ to recieve it.

if it can be lost, it is not unmerited, it is merited based on whatever a person has to do to maintian it ,or keep it, or keep from losing it, period.

It is not merited.

now. lets get off this OSAS kick You are blinded by this thing called osas, and it has you unable to listen to a word anyone else has to say.

Yoju want to talk about the gospel. lets talk. I am sick of talking about how works merit salvation and how OSAS people love sin. Both of which are not true. ..

Grace that is given to everyone is sufficent enough it is not given on your abilitity to perform works it is given on your desire to what you want to do.. so if you want more works to do you will be given more grace.. not the other way round
,

my grace is sufficient for you meaning God will never leave you with not enough grace for your day and your choirs

 

[JIMBO43]

If it is based on any merit whatsoever, it is not of grace it is of works. It is not a gift, it is a reward. It is not of faith, it is of doing.

The only people that get cut off are people that have the word in their hands, eternal life in their grasp, the truth in their minds, and end up walking away from it, because they never received it in faith and assurance, they just tried it out for a bit to see if they liked it, and since they never experienced it truly, decided their were better things to grasp.

grace is Gods spirit and strenght...

 

[JIMBO43]

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

People who are saved should start baring some sort of fruit immediately.


How much fruit they bare depending on how much a person grows and learns to trust God in different ares of their life. The more they abide in the vine (grow in faith of just trusting jesus) , the more fruit they will bare. ..

another contradiction ...., several weeks ago and all through this thread, you stated fruit was not any proof of salvation and it does not matter if they bear fruit or not, because a dead apple tree is still an apple tree whether they bear fruit or not...you G7 and DCOn alll say this.....you even called people who advocated that fruit bearing must be immediate in a baby christian as fruit-inspectors...and condemning people.....

but today...

you change your story again and tell us fruit bearing must be immediate....
You are making us sea sick with your double minded ways....

When you get it truly figured out, let us know....

morning bro yup quite often when people deceive the word of God they often slip up right here just like when he said he has had enough of your crap meaning you speak crap and he doesnt..

also meaning he cant handle correction either or his lies being brought to the service..

 

[mailmandan]

grace is Gods spirit and strenght...

God's grace is His enabling power in which He operates sovereignly in the lives of believers. God's grace is unmerited and is where God shows us mercy, kindness, and patience instead of the judgment that we deserve for sinning against Him. God's grace cannot be earned by our actions or sincerity. Grace is based on the character of God and not on our sincerity, performance, or ability to keep the law. Otherwise, grace would not be grace.

 

[JIMBO43]

God's grace is His enabling power in which He operates sovereignly in the lives of believers. God's grace is unmerited and is where God shows us mercy, kindness, and patience instead of the judgment that we deserve for sinning against Him. God's grace cannot be earned by our actions or sincerity. Grace is based on the character of God and not on our sincerity, performance, or ability to keep the law. Otherwise, grace would not be grace.

yup i knew it would belong befor we got own interpratations of grace.. like ive allways said the more grace you need the more God will give.

 

[JIMBO43]

Grace is something you grow in, I have said this all along.

But your teaching we are saved by our works. I do not hear any true grace from you, Only performance. do this or else..

That is what the law teaches, do this or else.

we are saved by God we receive eternal salvation from God because we have flowered the way we should after receiving his grace. its that simple.. if we stray he finds us and sees we are still baring his grace. as he says his grace is sufficient for you.. if you lose his grace thats your fault not his

 

[JIMBO43]

we are saved by God we receive eternal salvation from God because we have flowered the way we should after receiving his grace. its that simple.. if we stray he finds us and sees we are still baring his grace. as he says his grace is sufficient for you.. if you lose his grace thats your fault not his

unless your in captivity then it may not be your fault

 

[JIMBO43]

Stephen was full of grace Gods enabling power.. and so we all need what Stephen had but the question is how do we become full of grace..

 

[JIMBO43]

we dedicate are entire life to do Gods ministry..then we might get full of it ? or we do some of the works that stephen does and we get half of it..

Or Gods gives the amount of grace you need hmm i wonder which one will be chosen

 

[FranC]

God's grace is His enabling power in which He operates sovereignly in the lives of believers. God's grace is unmerited and is where God shows us mercy, kindness, and patience instead of the judgment that we deserve for sinning against Him. God's grace cannot be earned by our actions or sincerity. Grace is based on the character of God and not on our sincerity, performance, or ability to keep the law. Otherwise, grace would not be grace.

Hi MMD

Here's a problem with the above.
I'm not posting anymore scripture BTW.
We both know it and I don't plan on being here
except to tell you this...

I absolutely agree with all you've said.
Grace is even MORE than you could ever say or explain.
God is GREAT in everything He does, so even His grace is
Beyond what we could ever understand.

It cannot be earned. His grace if free of charge.

But let's look at what you said here for a moment...:

Grace is based on the character of God and not on our sincerity, performance, or ability to keep the law. Otherwise, grace would not be grace

You said that the grace of God is not based on our ability to keep the Law, otherwise grace would not be grace.

So since God's grace is not based on our ability to keep the Law,
Was God's grace not present when He gave Moses the 10 Commandments written on stone?

He knew the Israelites would not be able to keep the Law...
He had grace even back then -- it's an attribute of His.

So, wasn't His Grace sufficient for them to keep the commandments?
And because it IS sufficient NOW (the NC) does that mean He no longer DEMANDS that we keep them??

I'd just like to remind you that God Always gave us a CHOICE to obey or not to obey.
Deuteronomy, Joshua, Jesus Always said that we are to obey His commandments, John 14, 15, Mathew 7, etc.

Because we're in the NC now, does that mean God no longer demands obedience?
OR, does He still demand it but we've been given a new way to obey it...

I agree with my second sentence.
It's because of LOVE, but we still must obey.

 

[PHart]

If faith is firmly rooted and established in Christ from the start, then why wouldn't it continue?

Because the believing/trusting part is up to us. The gift of faith gives us the ability to know something is true. We then choose whether or not to trust in what the gift of faith has shown us to be true. Most people choose to not trust in what God shows them to be true.

How do believers force themselves to continue to believe?

By deciding which they love more, righteousness, or unrighteousness. Of course, God is there coaching and encouraging us all the way to help us make the right decision.

I can see where shallow, temporary belief that has no root (which does not represent saving faith in Christ) would fail to continue.

Why would even shallow trust in Christ not be good enough to solicit God's attention? It's still trust in God. Just not a deeply rooted trust in God which can not easily contend against the trials and tribulations and desires of the world that compete against it. That's why it's important to have a strong faith. After the 'either/or' of believing is settled (either you have it, or you don't), then it becomes a matter of growing up into and increasing the strength and depth of your believing. Testings not only expose the presence or absence of one's believing, they also strengthen or weaken it.

I could not imagine waking up one day and saying I no longer believe and hereby withdraw my faith in Christ for salvation. Faith in Christ is too engrained in me and I'm too convinced to simply stop believing.

But what about the person in whom it is not 'too ingrained' in? Just because it's deeply ingrained in you and I doesn't mean it's that way for everybody. The parable of the sower shows us clearly that some simply don't have a deeply rooted trust in God, but it's still a trust in God nonetheless. It's simply not able to withstand temptation and endure as well as more deeply rooted trust in God.

 

[JIMBO43]

not everyone has the same desires not everyone does the same works not everyone wants to protect innocence.. not everyone protects innocence the correct way..

This is where Gods enabling grace kicks in.. coz his enabling power is enough for you to protect innocence the right way. as he says his grace is sufficient for you. his grace is also sufficient enough for you to be a good member of his church and a fellow member a team player and his grace is not something that enables you to play God like king neb

 

[PHart]

Romans 8:1King James Version (KJV)

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

And what is required to walk in the spirit??

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If we are saved then the Spirit of God dwells in us. Not if we are saved and then do this or that. The height of arrogance is to assume we must or even are capable of doing ANYTHING to add to Christ's finished work on the cross. Put down your ego and pride and have faith that Jesus did what He said He did.

You're saying that simply possessing the Spirit means we are walking in it and, therefore, satisfying the condition to not be under condemnation. I wish it were that simple, but it's not. Possessing the Spirit in salvation and walking in it are two very different things as we can easily see from this verse:

"25If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit." (Galatians 5:25 NASB)

We choose whether or not we are going to obey God and walk in the Spirit. If we ignore the impulse of the Spirit to do right we are then guilty of not walking by the Spirit. At that moment we stand condemned by the law. Not so as to be suddenly un-saved--we're still alive in salvation as a new creation by the Holy Spirit. Just guilty of wrong-doing.

If and when our quenching of the Spirit is motivated by a decision to no longer care about and trust in Christ's blood for forgiveness, that is when we are venturing into the willful unbelief that will eventually cause you to lose your salvation and bring you back under the wrath of God if you persist in it and refuse all of God's warnings to return.

 

[mailmandan]

But what about the person in whom it is not 'too ingrained' in? Just because it's deeply ingrained in you and I doesn't mean it's that way for everybody. The parable of the sower shows us clearly that some simply don't have a deeply rooted trust in God, but it's still a trust in God nonetheless. It's simply not able to withstand temptation and endure as well as more deeply rooted trust in God.

The parable of the sower shows us that people who believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" do not experience real salvation, unlike the 4th soil.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root.." Problem from the start. Temporary shallow belief that was not firmly rooted or established from the start "has no root" represents rocky soil. Then we see the results of this. Temporary shallow belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away is not saving belief.

There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that falls short of saving belief that results in salvation. See John 2:23-25 in which faith was superficial, and in John 8:31-59 where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus, children of the devil, liars, and guilty of setting out to stone the one they have professed to believe in. In John 6:60, we see that Jesus knew from the beginning who "do not believe" (John 6:64).

 

[mailmandan]

Hi MMD

Here's a problem with the above.

There is no problem with the above. God's grace has always been around, nobody has ever perfectly obeyed the 10 Commandments (except Jesus) and grace does not negate obedience. Short and sweet, plain and simple.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

yup he also said and quoted in the past that people who disobeyed God or abandon who claim they are saved where never truly saved in the first place.. hes also changed his beliefs several times and done more than his fair share of attacking.. and then he has the cheek to turn it around on one member and have meg blamed for his behaviour i call that trouble, and unstable and dangerous you however call that good aerial.. aerial pls remind to come for you for advice in the future

ok dude

1. Prove I have changed my view on the gospel
2. Prove I have attacked anyone, Saying I disagree with someone, and sharing an apposing view is not attacking anyone.

I will be waiting, And if you do not back up your claims, I will be reporting your slanderous post to the mods. I am sick of you people attacking others based solely on the fact they disagree with you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Grace that is given to everyone is sufficent enough it is not given on your abilitity to perform works it is given on your desire to what you want to do.. so if you want more works to do you will be given more grace.. not the other way round
,

my grace is sufficient for you meaning God will never leave you with not enough grace for your day and your choirs

what does this have to do with saved by grace? This is talking about grace to make it through the day in our daily lives. Not salvation.

Paul wanted a painful thing taken away, God said no, My grace is sufficient. Thats it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

grace is Gods spirit and strenght...

Yep. Which has nothing to do with my work. Gods spirit and Gods strength is not powered by my work.

 

[PHart]

The parable of the sower shows us that people who believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" do not experience real salvation, unlike the 4th soil.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root.." Problem from the start. Temporary shallow belief that was not firmly rooted or established from the start "has no root" represents rocky soil. Then we see the results of this. Temporary shallow belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away is not saving belief.

There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that falls short of saving belief that results in salvation. See John 2:23-25 in which faith was superficial, and in John 8:31-59 where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus, children of the devil, liars, and guilty of setting out to stone the one they have professed to believe in. In John 6:60, we see that Jesus knew from the beginning who "do not believe" (John 6:64).

The problem is you are saying that all 'shallow believing' is 'not really believing'. 'No root' obviously can't mean 'no root at all' because the plant would not appear at all. The first kind of soil is the soil where there is no root, no believing, not the second soil.

The church can't seem to think in terms of 'weak faith/ strong faith'. It has been taught to only be able to think about faith in an 'either/or' way. But the parable of the sower shows us that there is indeed weak believing, and there is strong believing. Obviously, strong believing can endure. Weak faith may not. It may never grow up to the fourth kind of soil, but if you just look at your own life perhaps you have a testimony of being all four of the soils in a progressive move towards God. I do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

People who are saved should start baring some sort of fruit immediately.


How much fruit they bare depending on how much a person grows and learns to trust God in different ares of their life. The more they abide in the vine (grow in faith of just trusting jesus) , the more fruit they will bare. ..

morning bro yup quite often when people deceive the word of God they often slip up right here just like when he said he has had enough of your crap meaning you speak crap and he doesnt..

also meaning he cant handle correction either or his lies being brought to the service..

Yep. Just as usual. When someone can not prove someone wrong they have to attack them.

1. Meggido did not prove his point
2. You are not proving his point
3. All you have both done is show how foolish we sound when we are just plain attacking someone..

As Ariel pointed out, I have ALWAYS maintained a person who has true faith WILL do work. You can not say you have faith in someone and NEVER do what they say, you would be deemed a liar.

So I would suggest you stop with the nonsense of trying to make me look bad, You are failing miserably, because you can not make someone look bad when you falsley accuse them, You make YOURSELF look bad.