The Rapture

[Locutus]

It's hard to keep up with eveybodies beliefs. I thought this was the 1st resurrection... literal folks being raised from the literal dead.

Revelation 20:5 KJV
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Carry on with this:

Rev 20: 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

1 Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ...................

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

What do you think we are doing in the priesthood while seated in the heavenlies - reigning with him.

 

[PlainWord]

He left bodily didn't he?

Please read it very carefully.

This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

The "like manner" was how He went into heaven. It is NOT how He lifted off from earth.

 

[KJV1611]

Spiritual death AHW!! Stop thinking carnally. You need to develop your spiritual insights.

2 Cor 5: [SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Separation from God = spiritual death

This separation was restored.



Spiritual death (the second death) for believers was not applicable because they took part in the first resurrection. Hades was no longer in operation.

Whis is it spiritual death and not literal death PW?

 

[KJV1611]

Carry on with this:

Rev 20: 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

1 Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ...................

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

What do you think we are doing in the priesthood while seated in the heavenlies - reigning with him.

We're offering up spiritual sacrifices.

 

[PlainWord]

It's hard to keep up with eveybodies beliefs. I thought this was the 1st resurrection... literal folks being raised from the literal dead.

Revelation 20:5 KJV
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The first resurrection could not have happened when Christ resurrected because according to Rev 20, they were beheaded. Who was beheaded before Christ other than JtB? Also, they didn't take the mark of the beast which came later.

 

[KJV1611]

Please read it very carefully.

This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

The "like manner" was how He went into heaven. It is NOT how He lifted off from earth.

I don't follow you, his body was taken up into heaven.... what more is there?

 

[Locutus]

We're offering up spiritual sacrifices.

That as well.

 

[PlainWord]

Whis is it spiritual death and not literal death PW?

I don't understand the question. What is "Whis?"

 

[KJV1611]

The first resurrection could not have happened when Christ resurrected because according to Rev 20, they were beheaded. Who was beheaded before Christ other than JtB? Also, they didn't take the mark of the beast which came later.

Sure it happened when Christ rose, those raised at Christ's resurrection are the firstfruit of the first resurrection, those in Revelation are the main harvest.

 

[KJV1611]

I don't understand the question. What is "Whis?"

Sorry PW... Why is it spiritual death and not literal death. lol

 

[PlainWord]

I don't follow you, his body was taken up into heaven.... what more is there?

Christ's body was the only one not to face corruption, right? All other bodies of man return to dust. Since Christ was flesh he could be killed, but as God He could not be killed. After He rose again His body started to change, transitioning back to a heavenly body. This process I believe continued for 40 days. Once He was received by the "clouds" He was fully God bodily again.

Mk 16:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And they went and told it to the rest, but they did not believe them either.

This is why people had a hard time recognizing Him. No mortal can look upon the fully glorified God. His form was changing the whole time. But it had to be gradual to prove He had risen. By the time Paul sees Him, He's a very bright and blinding light, just as we are told He is in Rev 18:1. If He arose as a fully glorified LIGHT, nobody would believe He had been resurrected. That's my take anyway. There is NO PASSAGE that has Him back on earth again as a man after He returned to heaven.

 

[tourist]

I don't understand the question. What is "Whis?"

I think that's a kitchen gadget that beats eggs.

 

[PlainWord]

Sure it happened when Christ rose, those raised at Christ's resurrection are the firstfruit of the first resurrection, those in Revelation are the main harvest.

So you are equating 1 Cor 15:23 to Mt 27:52-53 but you see Rev 20:4 as a separate event thousands of years later and still future?

 

[Locutus]

This "1st resurrection" of John is not found in any of the letters, Paul mentions only one resurrection in his theology.

Acts 24:15 (Young's Literal) having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that there is about to be a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous;

Acts 24:15 has to be understood as the contextual background of John's revelation

 

[KJV1611]

Christ's body was the only one not to face corruption, right? All other bodies of man return to dust. Since Christ was flesh he could be killed, but as God He could not be killed. After He rose again His body started to change, transitioning back to a heavenly body. This process I believe continued for 40 days. Once He was received by the "clouds" He was fully God bodily again.

Mk 16:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And they went and told it to the rest, but they did not believe them either.

This is why people had a hard time recognizing Him. No mortal can look upon the fully glorified God. His form was changing the whole time. But it had to be gradual to prove He had risen. By the time Paul sees Him, He's a very bright and blinding light, just as we are told He is in Rev 18:1. If He arose as a fully glorified LIGHT, nobody would believe He had been resurrected. That's my take anyway. There is NO PASSAGE that has Him back on earth again as a man after He returned to heaven.

He was in the same type of body that we will have when we will be glorified like him. Do you think it's going to take 40 days for us to morph into our spiritual bodies?

 

[Locutus]

Sure it happened when Christ rose, those raised at Christ's resurrection are the firstfruit of the first resurrection, those in Revelation are the main harvest.

That does not compute with what this says:

1 Cor 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

You've got it at his resurrection.

 

[PlainWord]

Sorry PW... Why is it spiritual death and not literal death. lol

LOL. 2 Cor 5:17 or 1 Cor 15:51? Both are spiritual. Remember, I'm saying Christ returned ~ 70 AD. When He came, He brought salvation. He brought salvation, i.e., changing of the soul then, that did not happen at the Cross. The path was cleared but one still could not go to heaven until after His parousia return. There's the resurrection then afterward there's the changing that takes place within the soul/spirit to the living and it's upon His return, not before. But now, there is no waiting, our souls are changed upon accepting Christ and we go straight to heaven upon death.

Lk 21: [SUP]27 [/SUP]Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

Heb 9: To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

Rom 13: [SUP]11 [/SUP]And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.

1 Thes 5: [SUP]9 [/SUP]For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ

This is why everyone was so anxiously awaiting His return. Not because they were going to immediately be changed into spiritual bodies and taken to heaven but because Christ was going to "change their souls in the twinkling of an eye" so that when they died, they could immediately go to heaven.

Stand by, I think I heard VCO and AHW just blow a gasket.

 

[KJV1611]

So you are equating 1 Cor 15:23 to Mt 27:52-53 but you see Rev 20:4 as a separate event thousands of years later and still future?

There's 2 types of resurrection PW, the resurrection of life which is the 1st resurrection and the resurrection of the damned.

Christ and those raised with him were the firstfruits of the 1st resurrection or resurrection of life.

1 Corinthians 15:20 KJV
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

 

[PlainWord]

He was in the same type of body that we will have when we will be glorified like him. Do you think it's going to take 40 days for us to morph into our spiritual bodies?

Nope. For us, pretty instantaneously. But we won't be getting as bright, LOL. Won't take as long to heat us up. I'll probably be just bright enough to light a small box.

 

[KJV1611]

I have to stop for tonight, getting tired. You guys have a good night.