Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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This is an interesting look at 1 John 1 too.
Is 1 John 1 for Believers or Unbelievers?
“Why do you assume that the first chapter of first John is addressed to unbelievers?”
This question was put to me by a friend after reading my recent post on 1 John 1:9.
Judging by some of the comments that have come up in various discussion threads, it’s a question many of you are asking:
– How can you say that an epistle clearly written for churches was meant for sinners?
– Aren’t you treading on thin ice when you carve up the Bible saying, “That bit’s not for me”?
– Aren’t we supposed to heed the whole counsel of God?
These are all excellent questions and I will try to shed some light by looking at 1 John 1.
But let me state up front that I do not assume 1 John 1 was written for unbelievers – assumptions of that sort are dangerous. Rather I conclude that it was based on the evidence I will present below.
But first, let me challenge two traditional arguments used to suggest that 1 John 1, and particularly verse 9, is meant for Christians.
1. The New Testament church letters are for saints not sinners
Really? You don’t think they were meant for churches? Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian and in the New Testament churches there were plenty of people who were not saved.
I’m thinking of the “false brothers who infiltrated our ranks” (Gal 2:4) and the false teachers, false apostles, and false prophets who seemed to follow Peter and Paul everywhere they went.
We have this rose-tinted view of the early church as a place of harmony and accord. In reality those churches were fractious battlegrounds between Christians, Pharisees, Judaizers, and outright crooks.
Read the middle chapter of Peter’s second letter and you will find repeated warnings pertaining to false teachers who deny the sovereign Lord, who live in error and are slaves of depravity. Where are these heretics? They are not out in the world; they are in here “among the people” (2 Pet 2:1).
How about the antichrist? I bet you can’t guess where he lives. Well for starters, there’s more than one antichrist since anyone who denies Jesus is the Christ is an antichrist (1 Joh 2:22).
You may be surprised to learn that these antichrists aren’t found in Rome or Washington DC but are among the church. “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us” (1 Joh 2:18-19).
The wonderful thing about church groups is that they are open. Everyone is welcome. But not everyone who comes loves Jesus.
Every preacher knows this and tailors their message accordingly. They’ll have something for the saint and something for the sinner. The epistle writers are no different.
2. “John says ‘we’ a lot. That doesn’t sound like he’s talking about them but us.”
Indeed, John says “we” 20 times in chapter 1! But is he referring to “We-believers” or “We-people” or “We-his-royal-self”?
I think it is a huge mistake to assume that “we” always refers to a particular set of people in every single instance. We need to consider the context. This is how I read it:
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Verse[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]We-himself[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]We-people[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD]That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD]The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD]We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD]We write this to make your joy complete.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD]This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
It seems clear to me that for the first part of the chapter John is doing a fair impersonation of Prince Charles by referring to himself in the majestic plural.
Don’t laugh: this habit actually originated with the kings and princes of the Old Testament. (See 2 Samuel 16:20 for an example.)
But halfway through John switches to Thomas Jefferson adopting a “we-the-people” voice. This begs the question, Who are the people? Who is John referring to?
Why do I think 1 John 1 is addressed to unbelievers?
To answer this question we need to look at the “you” that John singles out in verse 3. Who are “the you”? What are they like?
Well in the following verses John gives us a very comprehensive description. Let us consider how this group – whoever they are – compares with the typical Christian.
See if you can spot the difference…
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Verse[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]John’s audience (the “You”)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Christians[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD]They do not have fellowship (koinonia) with us as we have with God; they alienated from the life of God (Eph 4:18)[/TD]
[TD]We have fellowship (koinonia) with Christ and all the members of His body (1 Cor 1:9, 1 Jn 1:7)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD]They need to hear the message that John has heard[/TD]
[TD]We have heard and believed the message (Rom 10:17)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD]They walk in darkness[/TD]
[TD]We walk in the light (Joh 8:12)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD]They lie and do not live by the truth[/TD]
[TD]We have met the Truth and walk in the truth (Joh 14:6, 2 Jn 1:4)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD]They need to be purified from all sin[/TD]
[TD]We have been purified from all sin (Heb 10:10)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD]They are deceived[/TD]
[TD]We are filled with the Spirit of Truth (Jn 14:17)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD]They need to be purified from all unrighteousness[/TD]
[TD]We have received the gift of forgiveness and have been made righteous (1 Cor 6:11, Eph 1:7)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD]They are calling God a liar[/TD]
[TD]We agree with God (Rom 10:9-13)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD]God’s word has no place in their lives[/TD]
[TD]His word lives in us (1 Th 2:13)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
As you can see, the group on the left is nothing like the group on the right. Indeed, the people in this group are the exact opposite of what the Bible describes as a Christian. Hmm.
I guess that means that they – those John is addressing in chapter 1 – are not Christians. They are not the “dear children” John begins to address in chapter 2.
Was that so hard?
Here’s the punch-line: If you think the whole Bible was written for you, you’re going to end up confused, messed up, and in serious trouble.
We need to have a whole Bible theology but that does not mean “read everything indiscriminately and hope for the best.” That would be like going to the drug cabinet in the local hospital and swallowing every pill in sight.
A whole Bible theology means you read the written word through the lens of the Living Word. It means filter everything you read through the finished work of the cross.
If, after reading this post, you still think 1 John 1:9 is addressed to believers, that’s fine. You could be right. The real question here is not Who? but What? This is why I say it is essential, when reading this scripture, that we ask the right question!
Here is the website address if interested in reading the questions.
https://escapetoreality.org/2012/06/14/is-1-john-1-for-believers/
Is 1 John 1 for Believers or Unbelievers?
“Why do you assume that the first chapter of first John is addressed to unbelievers?”
This question was put to me by a friend after reading my recent post on 1 John 1:9.
Judging by some of the comments that have come up in various discussion threads, it’s a question many of you are asking:
– How can you say that an epistle clearly written for churches was meant for sinners?
– Aren’t you treading on thin ice when you carve up the Bible saying, “That bit’s not for me”?
– Aren’t we supposed to heed the whole counsel of God?
These are all excellent questions and I will try to shed some light by looking at 1 John 1.
But let me state up front that I do not assume 1 John 1 was written for unbelievers – assumptions of that sort are dangerous. Rather I conclude that it was based on the evidence I will present below.
But first, let me challenge two traditional arguments used to suggest that 1 John 1, and particularly verse 9, is meant for Christians.
1. The New Testament church letters are for saints not sinners
Really? You don’t think they were meant for churches? Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian and in the New Testament churches there were plenty of people who were not saved.
I’m thinking of the “false brothers who infiltrated our ranks” (Gal 2:4) and the false teachers, false apostles, and false prophets who seemed to follow Peter and Paul everywhere they went.
We have this rose-tinted view of the early church as a place of harmony and accord. In reality those churches were fractious battlegrounds between Christians, Pharisees, Judaizers, and outright crooks.
Read the middle chapter of Peter’s second letter and you will find repeated warnings pertaining to false teachers who deny the sovereign Lord, who live in error and are slaves of depravity. Where are these heretics? They are not out in the world; they are in here “among the people” (2 Pet 2:1).
How about the antichrist? I bet you can’t guess where he lives. Well for starters, there’s more than one antichrist since anyone who denies Jesus is the Christ is an antichrist (1 Joh 2:22).
You may be surprised to learn that these antichrists aren’t found in Rome or Washington DC but are among the church. “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us” (1 Joh 2:18-19).
The wonderful thing about church groups is that they are open. Everyone is welcome. But not everyone who comes loves Jesus.
Every preacher knows this and tailors their message accordingly. They’ll have something for the saint and something for the sinner. The epistle writers are no different.
2. “John says ‘we’ a lot. That doesn’t sound like he’s talking about them but us.”
Indeed, John says “we” 20 times in chapter 1! But is he referring to “We-believers” or “We-people” or “We-his-royal-self”?
I think it is a huge mistake to assume that “we” always refers to a particular set of people in every single instance. We need to consider the context. This is how I read it:
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Verse[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]We-himself[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]We-people[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD]That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD]The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD]We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD]We write this to make your joy complete.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD]This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
It seems clear to me that for the first part of the chapter John is doing a fair impersonation of Prince Charles by referring to himself in the majestic plural.
Don’t laugh: this habit actually originated with the kings and princes of the Old Testament. (See 2 Samuel 16:20 for an example.)
But halfway through John switches to Thomas Jefferson adopting a “we-the-people” voice. This begs the question, Who are the people? Who is John referring to?
Why do I think 1 John 1 is addressed to unbelievers?
To answer this question we need to look at the “you” that John singles out in verse 3. Who are “the you”? What are they like?
Well in the following verses John gives us a very comprehensive description. Let us consider how this group – whoever they are – compares with the typical Christian.
See if you can spot the difference…
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Verse[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]John’s audience (the “You”)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Christians[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD]They do not have fellowship (koinonia) with us as we have with God; they alienated from the life of God (Eph 4:18)[/TD]
[TD]We have fellowship (koinonia) with Christ and all the members of His body (1 Cor 1:9, 1 Jn 1:7)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD]They need to hear the message that John has heard[/TD]
[TD]We have heard and believed the message (Rom 10:17)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD]They walk in darkness[/TD]
[TD]We walk in the light (Joh 8:12)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD]They lie and do not live by the truth[/TD]
[TD]We have met the Truth and walk in the truth (Joh 14:6, 2 Jn 1:4)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD]They need to be purified from all sin[/TD]
[TD]We have been purified from all sin (Heb 10:10)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD]They are deceived[/TD]
[TD]We are filled with the Spirit of Truth (Jn 14:17)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD]They need to be purified from all unrighteousness[/TD]
[TD]We have received the gift of forgiveness and have been made righteous (1 Cor 6:11, Eph 1:7)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD]They are calling God a liar[/TD]
[TD]We agree with God (Rom 10:9-13)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD]God’s word has no place in their lives[/TD]
[TD]His word lives in us (1 Th 2:13)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
As you can see, the group on the left is nothing like the group on the right. Indeed, the people in this group are the exact opposite of what the Bible describes as a Christian. Hmm.
I guess that means that they – those John is addressing in chapter 1 – are not Christians. They are not the “dear children” John begins to address in chapter 2.
Was that so hard?
Here’s the punch-line: If you think the whole Bible was written for you, you’re going to end up confused, messed up, and in serious trouble.
We need to have a whole Bible theology but that does not mean “read everything indiscriminately and hope for the best.” That would be like going to the drug cabinet in the local hospital and swallowing every pill in sight.
A whole Bible theology means you read the written word through the lens of the Living Word. It means filter everything you read through the finished work of the cross.
If, after reading this post, you still think 1 John 1:9 is addressed to believers, that’s fine. You could be right. The real question here is not Who? but What? This is why I say it is essential, when reading this scripture, that we ask the right question!
Here is the website address if interested in reading the questions.
https://escapetoreality.org/2012/06/14/is-1-john-1-for-believers/
Last edited:
Jesus did say “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber." That more than strongly suggests a person as opposed to an ideology, or religion, as you say. He compares/contrasts that person, or those people, to/against Himself 
I am off to play some pickleball. Everyone play nice with each other. We are allowed to have different opinions on some things so we can be respectful to each other.
We all see through a glass darkly because of the infirmity of our flesh. We have this treasure ( Christ Himself joined as one spirit us forever ) in an earthen vessel so that the excellency and power may be seen to be of God and not of ourselves.
We are all learning how to live by the life of Another in us - Christ is our life for we have died and our life is hidden with Christ in God.
We all see through a glass darkly because of the infirmity of our flesh. We have this treasure ( Christ Himself joined as one spirit us forever ) in an earthen vessel so that the excellency and power may be seen to be of God and not of ourselves.
We are all learning how to live by the life of Another in us - Christ is our life for we have died and our life is hidden with Christ in God.
Jesus did say “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber." That more than strongly suggests a person as opposed to an ideology, or religion, as you say. He compares/contrasts that person, or those people, to/against Himself
Well said.
It's this part (blue) that some of certain beliefs cannot accomplish.
Their first mistake is they believe there's no more conviction after accepting Christ. Conviction does two things, first convicting us of sin as we put off the old man & his deeds, & secondly, convicting us of righteousness to promote spiritual maturity as we put on the new man made in the image of Christ.
Their first mistake leads them to their second one: no repentance after conversion.
True repentance brings change. We become sorry for our sins & our will changes to want to perform God's will, & not ours.
Yet without these two active in their lives, they will claim the Holy Spirit promotes change in their lives, while tying His hands so he can't convict & lead to repentance & maturity.
It's a catch-22.
So far, the only response I received to that predicament is that grace changes us without our intervention into full maturity.
My question to this is, "If God does everything perfectly, why aren't we all perfect then?"
And just as I expected, no answer.
It's like every time you catch a glitch in their doctrine, they patch it with a quick excuse.
But if it were true doctrine, God's doctrine, it wouldn't need patching.
To this day, I cannot get them to answer me how they can mature without conviction & repentance.
It's this huge hole in their doctrine, proving it to be false.
This is an interesting look at 1 John 1 too.
Is 1 John 1 for Believers or Unbelievers?( when was the bible wrote for unbliever)
“Why do you assume that the first chapter of first John is addressed to unbelievers?”
This question was put to me by a friend after reading my recent post on 1 John 1:9.
Judging by some of the comments that have come up in various discussion threads, it’s a question many of you are asking:
– How can you say that an epistle clearly written for churches was meant for sinners?
– Aren’t you treading on thin ice when you carve up the Bible saying, “That bit’s not for me”?
– Aren’t we supposed to heed the whole counsel of God?
These are all excellent questions and I will try to shed some light by looking at 1 John 1.
But let me state up front that I do not assume 1 John 1 was written for unbelievers – assumptions of that sort are dangerous. Rather I conclude that it was based on the evidence I will present below.
But first, let me challenge two traditional arguments used to suggest that 1 John 1, and particularly verse 9, is meant for Christians.
1. The New Testament church letters are for saints not sinners
Really? You don’t think they were meant for churches? Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian and in the New Testament churches there were plenty of people who were not saved.
I’m thinking of the “false brothers who infiltrated our ranks” (Gal 2:4) and the false teachers, false apostles, and false prophets who seemed to follow Peter and Paul everywhere they went.
We have this rose-tinted view of the early church as a place of harmony and accord. In reality those churches were fractious battlegrounds between Christians, Pharisees, Judaizers, and outright crooks.
Read the middle chapter of Peter’s second letter and you will find repeated warnings pertaining to false teachers who deny the sovereign Lord, who live in error and are slaves of depravity. Where are these heretics? They are not out in the world; they are in here “among the people” (2 Pet 2:1).
How about the antichrist? I bet you can’t guess where he lives. Well for starters, there’s more than one antichrist since anyone who denies Jesus is the Christ is an antichrist (1 Joh 2:22).
You may be surprised to learn that these antichrists aren’t found in Rome or Washington DC but are among the church. “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us” (1 Joh 2:18-19).
The wonderful thing about church groups is that they are open. Everyone is welcome. But not everyone who comes loves Jesus.
Every preacher knows this and tailors their message accordingly. They’ll have something for the saint and something for the sinner. The epistle writers are no different.
2. “John says ‘we’ a lot. That doesn’t sound like he’s talking about them but us.”
Indeed, John says “we” 20 times in chapter 1! But is he referring to “We-believers” or “We-people” or “We-his-royal-self”?
I think it is a huge mistake to assume that “we” always refers to a particular set of people in every single instance. We need to consider the context. This is how I read it:
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Verse[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]We-himself[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]We-people[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD]That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD]The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD]We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD]We write this to make your joy complete.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD]This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
It seems clear to me that for the first part of the chapter John is doing a fair impersonation of Prince Charles by referring to himself in the majestic plural.
Don’t laugh: this habit actually originated with the kings and princes of the Old Testament. (See 2 Samuel 16:20 for an example.)
But halfway through John switches to Thomas Jefferson adopting a “we-the-people” voice. This begs the question, Who are the people? Who is John referring to?
Why do I think 1 John 1 is addressed to unbelievers?
To answer this question we need to look at the “you” that John singles out in verse 3. Who are “the you”? What are they like?
Well in the following verses John gives us a very comprehensive description. Let us consider how this group – whoever they are – compares with the typical Christian.
See if you can spot the difference…
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Verse[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]John’s audience (the “You”)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Christians[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD]They do not have fellowship (koinonia) with us as we have with God; they alienated from the life of God (Eph 4:18)[/TD]
[TD]We have fellowship (koinonia) with Christ and all the members of His body (1 Cor 1:9, 1 Jn 1:7)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD]They need to hear the message that John has heard[/TD]
[TD]We have heard and believed the message (Rom 10:17)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD]They walk in darkness[/TD]
[TD]We walk in the light (Joh 8:12)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD]They lie and do not live by the truth[/TD]
[TD]We have met the Truth and walk in the truth (Joh 14:6, 2 Jn 1:4)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD]They need to be purified from all sin[/TD]
[TD]We have been purified from all sin (Heb 10:10)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD]They are deceived[/TD]
[TD]We are filled with the Spirit of Truth (Jn 14:17)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD]They need to be purified from all unrighteousness[/TD]
[TD]We have received the gift of forgiveness and have been made righteous (1 Cor 6:11, Eph 1:7)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD]They are calling God a liar[/TD]
[TD]We agree with God (Rom 10:9-13)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD]God’s word has no place in their lives[/TD]
[TD]His word lives in us (1 Th 2:13)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
As you can see, the group on the left is nothing like the group on the right. Indeed, the people in this group are the exact opposite of what the Bible describes as a Christian. Hmm.
I guess that means that they – those John is addressing in chapter 1 – are not Christians. They are not the “dear children” John begins to address in chapter 2.
Was that so hard?
Here’s the punch-line: If you think the whole Bible was written for you, you’re going to end up confused, messed up, and in serious trouble.
We need to have a whole Bible theology but that does not mean “read everything indiscriminately and hope for the best.” That would be like going to the drug cabinet in the local hospital and swallowing every pill in sight.
A whole Bible theology means you read the written word through the lens of the Living Word. It means filter everything you read through the finished work of the cross.
If, after reading this post, you still think 1 John 1:9 is addressed to believers, that’s fine. You could be right. The real question here is not Who? but What? This is why I say it is essential, when reading this scripture, that we ask the right question!
Here is the website address if interested in reading the questions.
https://escapetoreality.org/2012/06/14/is-1-john-1-for-believers/
Is 1 John 1 for Believers or Unbelievers?( when was the bible wrote for unbliever)
“Why do you assume that the first chapter of first John is addressed to unbelievers?”
This question was put to me by a friend after reading my recent post on 1 John 1:9.
Judging by some of the comments that have come up in various discussion threads, it’s a question many of you are asking:
– How can you say that an epistle clearly written for churches was meant for sinners?
– Aren’t you treading on thin ice when you carve up the Bible saying, “That bit’s not for me”?
– Aren’t we supposed to heed the whole counsel of God?
These are all excellent questions and I will try to shed some light by looking at 1 John 1.
But let me state up front that I do not assume 1 John 1 was written for unbelievers – assumptions of that sort are dangerous. Rather I conclude that it was based on the evidence I will present below.
But first, let me challenge two traditional arguments used to suggest that 1 John 1, and particularly verse 9, is meant for Christians.
1. The New Testament church letters are for saints not sinners
Really? You don’t think they were meant for churches? Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian and in the New Testament churches there were plenty of people who were not saved.
I’m thinking of the “false brothers who infiltrated our ranks” (Gal 2:4) and the false teachers, false apostles, and false prophets who seemed to follow Peter and Paul everywhere they went.
We have this rose-tinted view of the early church as a place of harmony and accord. In reality those churches were fractious battlegrounds between Christians, Pharisees, Judaizers, and outright crooks.
Read the middle chapter of Peter’s second letter and you will find repeated warnings pertaining to false teachers who deny the sovereign Lord, who live in error and are slaves of depravity. Where are these heretics? They are not out in the world; they are in here “among the people” (2 Pet 2:1).
How about the antichrist? I bet you can’t guess where he lives. Well for starters, there’s more than one antichrist since anyone who denies Jesus is the Christ is an antichrist (1 Joh 2:22).
You may be surprised to learn that these antichrists aren’t found in Rome or Washington DC but are among the church. “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us” (1 Joh 2:18-19).
The wonderful thing about church groups is that they are open. Everyone is welcome. But not everyone who comes loves Jesus.
Every preacher knows this and tailors their message accordingly. They’ll have something for the saint and something for the sinner. The epistle writers are no different.
2. “John says ‘we’ a lot. That doesn’t sound like he’s talking about them but us.”
Indeed, John says “we” 20 times in chapter 1! But is he referring to “We-believers” or “We-people” or “We-his-royal-self”?
I think it is a huge mistake to assume that “we” always refers to a particular set of people in every single instance. We need to consider the context. This is how I read it:
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Verse[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]We-himself[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]We-people[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD]That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD]The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD]We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD]We write this to make your joy complete.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD]This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
It seems clear to me that for the first part of the chapter John is doing a fair impersonation of Prince Charles by referring to himself in the majestic plural.
Don’t laugh: this habit actually originated with the kings and princes of the Old Testament. (See 2 Samuel 16:20 for an example.)
But halfway through John switches to Thomas Jefferson adopting a “we-the-people” voice. This begs the question, Who are the people? Who is John referring to?
Why do I think 1 John 1 is addressed to unbelievers?
To answer this question we need to look at the “you” that John singles out in verse 3. Who are “the you”? What are they like?
Well in the following verses John gives us a very comprehensive description. Let us consider how this group – whoever they are – compares with the typical Christian.
See if you can spot the difference…
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Verse[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]John’s audience (the “You”)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Christians[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD]They do not have fellowship (koinonia) with us as we have with God; they alienated from the life of God (Eph 4:18)[/TD]
[TD]We have fellowship (koinonia) with Christ and all the members of His body (1 Cor 1:9, 1 Jn 1:7)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD]They need to hear the message that John has heard[/TD]
[TD]We have heard and believed the message (Rom 10:17)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD]They walk in darkness[/TD]
[TD]We walk in the light (Joh 8:12)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD]They lie and do not live by the truth[/TD]
[TD]We have met the Truth and walk in the truth (Joh 14:6, 2 Jn 1:4)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD]They need to be purified from all sin[/TD]
[TD]We have been purified from all sin (Heb 10:10)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD]They are deceived[/TD]
[TD]We are filled with the Spirit of Truth (Jn 14:17)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD]They need to be purified from all unrighteousness[/TD]
[TD]We have received the gift of forgiveness and have been made righteous (1 Cor 6:11, Eph 1:7)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD]They are calling God a liar[/TD]
[TD]We agree with God (Rom 10:9-13)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD]God’s word has no place in their lives[/TD]
[TD]His word lives in us (1 Th 2:13)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
As you can see, the group on the left is nothing like the group on the right. Indeed, the people in this group are the exact opposite of what the Bible describes as a Christian. Hmm.
I guess that means that they – those John is addressing in chapter 1 – are not Christians. They are not the “dear children” John begins to address in chapter 2.
Was that so hard?
Here’s the punch-line: If you think the whole Bible was written for you, you’re going to end up confused, messed up, and in serious trouble.
We need to have a whole Bible theology but that does not mean “read everything indiscriminately and hope for the best.” That would be like going to the drug cabinet in the local hospital and swallowing every pill in sight.
A whole Bible theology means you read the written word through the lens of the Living Word. It means filter everything you read through the finished work of the cross.
If, after reading this post, you still think 1 John 1:9 is addressed to believers, that’s fine. You could be right. The real question here is not Who? but What? This is why I say it is essential, when reading this scripture, that we ask the right question!
Here is the website address if interested in reading the questions.
https://escapetoreality.org/2012/06/14/is-1-john-1-for-believers/
copying and pasting others people thesis is slandering them, can you tell us who paul was apostle too., will not meet paramount aspect of scripture, if you cut off,
strange thing cahoot, make be you can explain, why , the jewish relgion system, cannot repent, if they need a temple of stone.
would that be to a jewish christian convert or a gentile christian convert. or jewish religion system as it stands today without jesus christ. .
14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the lawRomans 2
would that be to a jewish christian convert or a gentile christian convert. or jewish religion system as it stands today without jesus christ. .
14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the lawRomans 2