How can you really really really know you are saved?
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this all rests ultimately on faith in God's own faithfulness: on trusting the Father and the work of the Son.
assuming that the gospel is understood, anyone who doubts the Lord's faithfulness to keep the word He has spoken and to do all His will is going to doubt their own salvation in at least equal measure.
i am as fully assured that He will complete what He has begun in me as i am assured that He does not fail to complete His will.
assuming that the gospel is understood, anyone who doubts the Lord's faithfulness to keep the word He has spoken and to do all His will is going to doubt their own salvation in at least equal measure.
i am as fully assured that He will complete what He has begun in me as i am assured that He does not fail to complete His will.
It's a shame that it happens anywhere. We have attended the Chiefs home opener at Arrowhead Stadium for several years now and you can always count on at least a few fights breaking out during the game or after. One year the Chiefs home opener was against the Dallas Cowboys and that is the only home opener that I can remember in which I did not see one fight break out and the Cowboy fans were not rowdy at all and were actually good sports and a lot of fun!
D
Actually, the gospel does teach that, but in a fuller version. (The righteousness and faith come from God, not us.)
Romans 3:21-26
Romans 3:21-26
You just said a mouthful, "assuming that the gospel is understood".
I have been a Christian since I was 18, I am now 52. I have studied the Bible "cover to cover" and still find things I did not see before. Even in the short 4-1/2 months I have been of cc has taught me much. So how can anyone understand the issue of salvation to the point that they can look themselves or anyone else in the eyes and proclaim they "know" that if they die today they will go to heaven. No ifs ands or buts. How could this be true of "everyone" when those who are making the claims are accusing the others of being wrong.
Is everyone who claims assurance, actually assured? Does the claim itself make it true?
It seems that most who claim this assurance must be mistaken. Who is mistaken I do not know but mistaken they must be. The question is how can we know we are not part of that group of the "mistaken"?
Saying you know because you know is not an answer.
I have been a Christian since I was 18, I am now 52. I have studied the Bible "cover to cover" and still find things I did not see before. Even in the short 4-1/2 months I have been of cc has taught me much. So how can anyone understand the issue of salvation to the point that they can look themselves or anyone else in the eyes and proclaim they "know" that if they die today they will go to heaven. No ifs ands or buts. How could this be true of "everyone" when those who are making the claims are accusing the others of being wrong.
Is everyone who claims assurance, actually assured? Does the claim itself make it true?
It seems that most who claim this assurance must be mistaken. Who is mistaken I do not know but mistaken they must be. The question is how can we know we are not part of that group of the "mistaken"?
Saying you know because you know is not an answer.
The scripture answer has been given already, so let me give another answer:
I can know I am saved because I ask God in prayer to let me feel His presence, and I have felt His presence, so while some here may not believe in anything like that, that is my answer regardless.
It is a miracle God still deals with me, the dog that I am. GOD IS LOVE, GOD IS FORGIVING GOD IS MERCIFUL. I truly believe God will not cast away anyone who approaches Him in a repentant state.
Obviously we need to stand on the Scriptures but I still decided to share that for some reason.
I can know I am saved because I ask God in prayer to let me feel His presence, and I have felt His presence, so while some here may not believe in anything like that, that is my answer regardless.
It is a miracle God still deals with me, the dog that I am. GOD IS LOVE, GOD IS FORGIVING GOD IS MERCIFUL. I truly believe God will not cast away anyone who approaches Him in a repentant state.
Obviously we need to stand on the Scriptures but I still decided to share that for some reason.
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Knowing something through personal empirical experience is the only way to truly know something. Otherwise you accept hearsay. As much as people may read about God, through whatever is available to them (hopefully the testaments found in Scriptures), that attest to His goodness, grace, mercy, love, and perfect justice, it is not the same as experiencing firsthand His desire for us to repent of our rebellion against Him, and believe in the shedding of His Son's righteous blood on the cross as a propitiatory sacrifice to pay the sin debt, that we may through faith be reconciled to God, and have a life more abundant, through living according to His principles in this life, and being united with Him forever after in the life to come, following the resurrection and judgment of all, at which time, those who have not placed their faith in Him, pass into the second death, being subject to the condemnation accorded to them under the penalty of the law, for they are without excuse.
please see post #162 and post #171
if you believe God, believe Him. of course when i say that with the tacit assumption that you comprehend what He says.
(("comprehend what He says" -- wow yes, agreed, more than a mouthful -- but the gospel of Jesus Christ is both radically simple and cosmically, unimaginably rich & complex))
if you believe Him, believe Him fully -- that is assurance.
if you disbelieve Him, how can you have anything but doubt??
i get what you're saying - and it's a really interesting and relevant point, one i'm glad you're bringing up and pressing. no quibbling from me on the existence and premise of this thread, sir
there is this implicit circular reasoning, "i believe because i believe and i am sure because i am sure of what i believe" -- but that whole circle consists of "me" and has nothing to do with God. the Lord lives - He is REAL and ALIVE and PRESENT - and it's upon the 'insertion' of Him into this logical samsara that that wheel is shattered and we're released from it.
treating this whole question as if it is somehow separate from and unconcerned with the Author and Finisher of our salvation is, of course, going to get us nowhere. i know i am His because i hear His voice. He's an active participant - the active participant in this. it's when He's left out, and we examine a salvation apart from a Savior, then that salvation necessarily appears very questionable, unsubstantiated and only quasi-justified by confirmation bias: no man can save himself; God alone saves.
He must be included, and since He deemed it fitting not to make us star-belly vs. regular-belly sneetches, it rests on faith in Him, His grace, His mercy, and His faithfulness.
if you believe God, believe Him. of course when i say that with the tacit assumption that you comprehend what He says.
(("comprehend what He says" -- wow yes, agreed, more than a mouthful -- but the gospel of Jesus Christ is both radically simple and cosmically, unimaginably rich & complex))
if you believe Him, believe Him fully -- that is assurance.
if you disbelieve Him, how can you have anything but doubt??
i get what you're saying - and it's a really interesting and relevant point, one i'm glad you're bringing up and pressing. no quibbling from me on the existence and premise of this thread, sir
there is this implicit circular reasoning, "i believe because i believe and i am sure because i am sure of what i believe" -- but that whole circle consists of "me" and has nothing to do with God. the Lord lives - He is REAL and ALIVE and PRESENT - and it's upon the 'insertion' of Him into this logical samsara that that wheel is shattered and we're released from it.
treating this whole question as if it is somehow separate from and unconcerned with the Author and Finisher of our salvation is, of course, going to get us nowhere. i know i am His because i hear His voice. He's an active participant - the active participant in this. it's when He's left out, and we examine a salvation apart from a Savior, then that salvation necessarily appears very questionable, unsubstantiated and only quasi-justified by confirmation bias: no man can save himself; God alone saves.
He must be included, and since He deemed it fitting not to make us star-belly vs. regular-belly sneetches, it rests on faith in Him, His grace, His mercy, and His faithfulness.
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