Slain in the Spirit?

[Innerfire89]

Your concern should arise when a church denies Christ, not to those that proclaim Him. To what end do the miracles occur? Who is glorified? Why do signs and wonders bring criticism, as opposed to worship? The fault lies not in those witnessing it and praising God, but to those in opposition to them. They think that anything not in the Bible cannot be of God yet God's word speaks of there not being enough books to record all that Jesus did. Who knows what He did that we don't know of?

God all throughout history kept doing a new thing, one after the other. History may repeat itself but history must first be made. In that case, why not praise God for something fresh and new? Something unheard of? God's word said that He worked special miracles through His apostle, such that people were healed by his shadow, or healed by handkerchiefs. Do you suppose that people freaked out because such things were not in the Torah? No, they sought their healing and gave praise to God.

Our concern shouldn't be with what is happening, necessarily, but with how we are reacting to it. Is God glorified? Is Christ preached? Are souls saved? Then praise God! There is nothing wrong with being fascinated with what God is doing in the Earth and desiring to witness it. It brings one closer to the Lord, strengthens their faith, and ultimately brings reverence.

Ah, but it's necessary to seek more than healing, we are to seek truth.

How many have been slain in the Spirit since the beginning of the charismatic movement? More than both of us could count together. Now if being slain is so prominent, if its the way so many miracles of healing and the infilling of the spirit happen, then at least once it should be mentioned in Scripture. It should be unquestionable that falling backwards happens.

Now not every miracle Jesus and the apostles performed are in Scripture, but I firmly believe we have everything we need to know.
We also see that healing had a certain purpose, to validate Christ and the apostles for the cause of establishing Christ Church and to bring glory to God. Not to make all believers well.

 

[Depleted]

Perhaps a bit of balance is called for here.
I have never been part of a church where there were any expectations re: being slain in the Spirit.
In fact we were often cautioned not to fall down just because someone else did.
The impression that I got was that God moved and answered prayer irrespective of the apparent effect on the congregation.

I have visited churches or seen visiting speakers appear to demand or expect this sort of response to prayer which achieved nothing apart from making me feel uneasy.

Luckily, the first church I joined after being saved always taught that God is much bigger than our understanding of Him and definitely much bigger than our response to Him.
Yes, we were a charismatic congregation but IMHO we better grounded in the word of God than any church, of any flavour, I have known since...

Okay, then from your understanding, I've got some questions. (And I really don't get it at all, so don't consider this judging. I really just don't get it at all.)

If it is God moving and answering prayers, do you know anyone who got an answer, ultimately, for whatever they were praying for? I mean, like someone goes up for prayers about a family situation or health problems, does that ever get an answer that they can recognize?

 

[Innerfire89]

You do not know what that person may be experiencing in that moment of surrender. Whether that person is receiving something from the Lord, having a vision, an out of body experience, or are in a trance. All these things are in His word, mind you. The fruit speaks for itself. Ask a person who has been slain what did that experience do for them. Don't simply judge because you do not understand it.

What are the fruits of the Spirit?

 

[Depleted]

Well, it seems to me that you are extrapolating your abnormal experiences into something that is normative in Charismatic/Pentecostal circles.

He's American. What he described isn't that abnormal in this country. I do know of Pentecostal and/or Charismatic churches that don't do this, but it's about a 50/50 split from what I have experienced. Now, granted, if I put all the churches I've ever gone to together, I couldn't hit .00001% of the churches in the US, but I have lived in three different areas in this country, (Northeast, South, and Midwest), and it seemed about the same in all areas.

 

[Blain]

What are the fruits of the Spirit?

Love is one of them and so then if what happened to me was being slain in the spirit then I guess my experience was valid because there was an immense love being poured into me.

 

[Nehemiah6]

We also see that healing had a certain purpose, to validate Christ and the apostles for the cause of establishing Christ Church and to bring glory to God. Not to make all believers well.

Correct. A lot of Christians simply forget (or don't even know) that this is in Scripture. So please note:

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know (Acts 2:22).

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? (Heb 2:3,4).

Now here is where the Holy Spirit would have added "And those healed would be slain in the Spirit and fall backwards".

 

[Depleted]

Not exactly, but it was obviously false that my aunt was being filled with The Holy Spirit and at the same time she was an alcoholic. If God was moving that strongly in her than it should have showed in her actions.

I've known people who were right smack in the middle of a very nice stoned, when God saved them. Funny thing though, he always delivered them from the stoned too.

 

[Depleted]

I was raised Baptist — no falling down.

Then I was CoC — you were probably going to Hell if you went down.

I knew that I knew!

Then it happened to me. The most glorious experience of truly being "in" Christ that I had ever experienced! Since that first time, I can't count how many more times it has happened.

Same questions -- what did it do for you? How did it change you?

 

[Depleted]

This started something like 25 years ago, and besides the peace and closeness it developed, it has at least tripled my desire to draw closer to Christ.

Never mind. You already answered. (Sorry. Didn't get this far when I asked. lol)

 

[Depleted]

This "how come it happens?" was one of the first things my wife asked (it happened to her first) and she was told that they thought it might be like Godly anesthesia...... that God needed to do some work in you, and that you would handle it better if you were simply "out." and not resisting or questioning the experience.

And I could go along with that one except nothing happened for Dad.

 

[Depleted]

No, my own sin does not disqualify me for anything, habitual sin shows that someone is not a Christian, a tree is know by it's furit. Do you think someone who is being filled with the Holy Spirit in such a way that they are knocked to the floor would still be an alcoholic? When my aunt threw things around the house and screamed cuss word at her family, was that Christ living though her? No.

The first time I mentioned my aunt was while chit chatting with Ugly, you thought I was involving my aunt in the argument, then out of curiosity I asked what you would say if she was part of the argument.

Bupkis!

You admitted that God changed you from begin a druggie to not being one. My testimony is different. I wasn't a druggie when God saved me. THEN I became a druggie for four years. Definitely "habitual sin," and yet God still saved me.

 

[Depleted]

I once wanted to be filled with the Spirit, so I had someone pray for me. I did begin falling forward but instead of falling to the ground, I reached out for support and fell into the arms of a lady. I did not blackout or anything like that. I saw myself going down. I fell backwards one time too, but not for the same reason. I was trying to push something in with my foot( instead of using my hands) and I lost my balance. Thankfully I did not hit my head against the corner of the foosball table; that could have been serious.

I did not know there was a vast difference with falling forward in the bible verses falling backwards. I do recall Judas Iscariot and those with him falling back at the time Judas betrayed Jesus. I did not know falling back had something to do with judgement. I might look into that.

When I was young, a group of us got together and studied the Bible together. At the end of the meeting we stood, held hands, and prayed. I started seeing green, which is always the first sign of passing out, but I didn't want to bother anyone.

So, sure nuff, I passed out. Was awake by the time I hit the floor. Immediately, everyone wanted to know if I was slain in the spirit.

Nope. Just passed out.

 

[Depleted]

Get a grip of your nylons man!
The term "motor car" is not found in the Bible either so it must be demonic right...

I think you need to revisit your logic...

Aussie to American translation required -- nylons? Old reference to women's stockings? Because that was just funny. lol

 

[Depleted]

Why do you care for what phenomena happens within church walls? Is Christ glorified? Is Christ preached? Are souls saved? Look to the fruit, and judge not. I've heard stories of people receiving gold teeth, who had dental issues, and God replaced their tooth with a golden one. What does this do? Glorify God. Draw one closer to the Father as it reveals His heart. Shows His majesty and power. So, again, what does it matter what crazy signs, wonders and miracles happen in churches as long as Christ is preached, souls are saved, and people seek the Lord in worship and awe?

Yes the Bible speaks of false signs, wonders, and healing. Yet, a house divided cannot stand, it will fall. How is it all these wonders happen to the glory of God? To the praise of Jesus? To the request of the Spirit to move amongst the people? It is to the glory of God that such things happen, and ultimately so long as Christ and Him crucified is preached unto the salvation of those listening, what issue do you take with it?

You're assumption is off. It doesn't always glorify God, or anything else. So, then what?

 

[Innerfire89]

Love is one of them and so then if what happened to me was being slain in the spirit then I guess my experience was valid because there was an immense love being poured into me.

The fruits of The Holy Spirit are characteristics seen in born again believers, not feelings.

Galatians 5:19-23. The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealously, fits of rage, and envy; drunkneness, origies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruits if the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.

I put "self control" in bold letters to make another point, that falling backwards and or laughing uncontrollably is not self control.

 

[Depleted]

Derren Brown, a British hypnotist, put people down in the same way, in his documentary about false television preachers.

So its more about how our brain works than about the Holy Spirit.

He was also able to perform most common "miracles" and "healing".

----

When I was in a charismatic church, I had the opposite problem, I did not fall. Preachers were nervous because of it, tried to push me down by hands etc. Then they closed the case that I am bound by philosophy or what.

Some people are not sensitive to hypnosis, some are. You must be relaxed, you must cooperate etc.

Dad and I are like you -- unhypnotizable. (We are both fully aware of what is happening even while being hypnotized.) Dad assumed he wouldn't go down, so he wasn't relaxed. He was fighting it. Now what?

(Oh, and if someone tried pushing me down, I'd push back. Did you? lol)

 

[Innerfire89]

Bupkis!

You admitted that God changed you from begin a druggie to not being one. My testimony is different. I wasn't a druggie when God saved me. THEN I became a druggie for four years. Definitely "habitual sin," and yet God still saved me.

Well, if you say so. But when did you sincerely ask accept Christ as the master and saviour of your life, before or after the drugs?

 

[Innerfire89]

And I'll pass on the bupkis, I had a big lunch. Lol.

 

[BillG]

When I was saved as a teen it was into the Pentecostal movement. We had a big time preacher guest at our church and invited people to come up for healing. I went up.
I had never been "knocked down" Hinn style. Wasn't convinced it was a godly thing.
So I approached determined that I was not going down. As i watched the line of people ahead of me going down like dominoes I was ready.
He got to me, and before his hand touched me I blacked out. I woke up a few seconds later not feeling a thing. In fact nothing had changed at all. But I was confused as to why I went down.
I was at first upset at God, then felt guilty that it was my fault nothing happened.
Once I got away from church I began wondering why did I go down if God did nothing? Why did I not "feel God" afterward. It was a bizarre experience I've never been able to explain. Something tool me down, but it wasn't God.
Eventually I left that entire belief system behind after so many negative experiences within the Pentecostal/charismatic church.

I had a similar experience.

We had preachers come along and everyone seemed to be falling down, whether it be laying on of hands or the preacher raising his hands and asking the Holy Spirit to come.

This was in the late 80’s

My initial thoughts that it was evil or manufactured.
Mind you I had just come to this church from an Anglican Church.
The first time I heard tongues I felt the same.

Anyway one evening there was a call to go forward for prayer, I didn’t go forward for prayer. I just stood up where I was.
There was no way I was gonna fall over but if there was something genuine that I did not get then I wanted the genuine.

Someone then came over to me and asked did I want prayer. I said yes.

He laid his hands on me, no pushing, no pressure and no one standing behind me.
The minute he laid his hands on me I went down like a sack of potatoes. No one behind me to catch me.
I hit a chair on the way down but wasn’t hurt. Chairs around me we moved and I was flat on my back.

I wasn’t blacked out but was in a sense paralysed but with not fear. I felt at peace.
I heard the prayers that were being prayed over me.
Then the person praying said “Time to get up”

That has only ever happened to me once.

I understand what you say about going down and then nothing seems to change.

I think for me I was the same, yet possibly the difference is that I actually was at peace and was not blacked out.
That doesn’t mean that the reason I stood up for my issues were dealt with straight away. God himself works in us at the time best for us.

I think if we are honest if we have a preconceived idea of how should work based on our theological/church understanding then we can limit how God can work in us.

Was my experience real, yes it was to me.

Did I feel God afterwards? Yes I did.
Was everything in my life changed straight away? No

I suppose I would ask you why you left as a result of the negative experiences and what were they?
Why were they negative?
Why were you upset at God?

 

[Depleted]

How do you know I'm not emphatic towards my aunt or any alcoholic?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexualy immoral nor idolaters nor adulters nor homosexual offenders, nor denied thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanders nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you we're washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our God.

We are not supposed to judge hypocritically or condem others. And did you not judge me in saying "empathy, love lacking from you in her case isn't Christ working through you... "

No one gives The Holy Spirit except The Holy Spirit, one who has the indwelling of the spirit will have evidence. One who has the infilling which comes though obedience dose not get drunk at church.

BTW, you took those verses out of context and context is important. Paul was teaching the Corinthians how to deal with the impenitent in the church. Of course sinners don't inherit God's kingdom. But he will forgive us sinners if we repent, even if we need to repent often, because we backslide. Salvation has nothing to do with the cut of our jib or the strength of our determinism.