Not By Works

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Z
You don't have to buy my words.

Just as I don't buy that you stand for truth. You stand in arrogance and call it truth.

The quote is arrogant, self centered, and descriptive of the age and culture. IOW 2 Timothy 3:2 in action.



So you want high self esteem. That's 2 Timothy 3:2. I don't buy the lie of low self esteem. Note Matthew 5:3. You seem to have a view of self which differs from biblical Christianity.



Obviously it does hence your quote and all it implies.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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Can't anyone talk plainly?
I didn't ask for a sermon. I asked what the man meant by what he said.

Thanks anyway..
That is as Plain as it gets. Why do you think you have trouble understanding it and label the few verses that EXPLAIN IT SIMPLY as a sermon?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Why? Because you can only see judgement? Not that it's possible to love yourself without being self-centered? it speaks to low self-esteem in my case. Human opinion really doesn't matter to me
I stop worrying if my self esteem is high or low.

What really is important is how God "esteem" is.

How He sees us as His beloved children.

We need to stop worrying about how the world views our words and actions.

Instead let us pray and allow God to correct or praise us for what we do.

I have found God is a lot more living and forgiving and filled with grace.

I was thinking earlier today about the difference between an accuset and advocate, but decided not to post it and do some baking instead.

Can't really sleep so I will share what I was thinking.

An advocate sees someone in trouble, someone broken and recognizes their brokenness.

However instead of just pointing out what is wrong. They encourage,and listen and pray with the person.

Advocates don't always have the answers but the help the person k ow that they aren't alone. Someone else loves and cares for them. Even though they are broken now, they won't be broken forever.

God Make a beauty from our brokenness. A humble and contrite heart is an acceptable sacrifice unto God.

I believe we should all strive to be advocates instead of just accusers.

We don't need to do the Holy spirit job of convicting people of their sons. We need to do ours of joining in one spirit to glorify God.

Anyway,hope you have a blessed day.

Going to read the rest of the posts from the folks I don't have on ignore.

With my limited time these days, I have found some folks it's better to just place in prayer into God"s hands.

I apologize to anyone I offend God making that statement, but I would be honest. Though it's almost time for my weekly reset.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Can't anyone talk plainly?
I didn't ask for a sermon. I asked what the man meant by what he said.

Thanks anyway..
I hesitate to speak because I can't speak for "the man".

However when my friends (which he isn't one of) have made similar statement in the past, they refer to the fact of how God works in a believers life before they have true faith and accept Jesus as their savior.

To truly understand p4t point of view, you would have to study TULIP and that is a lot longer than just one sermon.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
That is as Plain as it gets. Why do you think you have trouble understanding it and label the few verses that EXPLAIN IT SIMPLY as a sermon?
My favorite sermon can be done in two words...

He wept.
 
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Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

There it is plain as day that no flesh shall be justified by the works of the law.

No flesh shall be justified.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

But those that are saved are no longer in the flesh,but the Spirit.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual.

No flesh shall be justified by the law,but those that are saved are not in the flesh,but the Spirit,so they have to establish the law,which means obey it because they are spiritual,and not fleshy,for by the Spirit,spiritual,we can live up to the law,where by the flesh we cannot.

Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
Gal 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
Gal 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
Gal 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

The spiritual laws always have to obeyed,and a person will reap what they sow,whether fleshy,or spiritual,and if a person believes in Christ,but holds unto sin then they are fleshy not spiritual,for whatever is in your heart is what comes out,so if they sin then that is what is in their heart,for our actions,and thoughts,are what defines us,and there is no confessing Christ,and holding unto sin,and being spiritual,for that is fleshy.

No flesh will be justified by the works of the law,for the flesh cannot measure up,but by the Spirit a person can live up to the law,and they have to for they have to establish the law.

Everybody has to fulfill the law,spiritual laws,moral laws,laws of love,which the flesh cannot do,but by the Spirit we can do it.

A person is not under the law if they are led of the Spirit,because a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh,show the ways of the Spirit,and have crucified the flesh with the lusts and affections,so a Spirit led life does not sin.

A person that confesses Christ,and is saved,and sins,at that time they are back under the law,for they were not led of the Spirit,but the flesh,until they repent of it,and mean it,not repent of it that time and hold unto it and know you will do it at a later date,for that is not repentance.

God is not mocked,whatever a person sows that is what they will reap,and a person confessing Christ that sins,or holds unto sins,does not exempt a person from falling under the category of being fleshy.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
I Live "any way I want" NOW. I am born again, a child of God, I WANT to do His Perfect Will in my life at all times.

The Holy Spirit has directed and corrected me over the years to line up how I want to live with how He wants me to live.

I was rebellious in my walk for quite a while, reaping in painful ways that ungodly walk. I still stumble sometimes. But as I look back at that time I can literally see where the Lord sustained me, allowing the consequences of sinful behavior to draw me back into a more Godly walk and deeper relationship with Him.

If I had continued down that path, and God allowed satan to utterly destroy my flesh to the point of death, wouldn't that be better than to continue wrong living? I truly believe Romans 8:28. So because of that I trust my Heavenly Father will always do what's in the best interest of His children. The Question is ARE YOU HIS CHILD?

If yes, then you must trust that He will work ALL things for your good, and His Glory.

So ask yourself. Do you do what His Will is because YOU WANT TO and are beyond grateful, or do you do it out of fear and obligation?

If it is not the former than you better examine if you have the right Gospel. Because it ISN'T about sinful lifestyles, it's about faith, or unbelief in Jesus Christ. WHO He is and WHAT He has done.

Do YOU believe Jesus' Blood, and subsequent resurrection is sufficient for eternal life, or are you insulting the spirit of Grace by trying to add to it?
I love the point that you make that we now WANT to do GOD"s will and not what we used to want.

We have a changed of heart and that is powerful.

I do think we add to life by doing good works. However our good works have no effect upon our salvation status,it does have an effect on how we share Goda love and joy with the rest of the world,

How we live affects how we are able to feel God's love in our own life.

God doesn't love us less when we sin. He has grace to forgive us even when We don't deserve His mercy. We can't earn God's love. We can buy it. We can't work for it. God freely gives us His love.

We need to learn to freely give it to others,

People are by nature takers and users.
.God calls us to be givers and builders And loving caretakers of all He has entrusted and blessed us with.

Yet when we speak, do we speak with bumblebees and love?

I ask myself that a lot and sometimes have to go before God for forgiveness because the answer is no.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Matt, I try my best to follow the Holy spirit but I fall short and sin by not following the law as perfectly as I know I should.

You seem to imply that Christians should follow the law and be sinless.

Can you clarify?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
It reminds me of a conversation I had with my 9 year old daughter last week.

She told me a friend said to her on the playground that Christians never sin or do any thing wrong.

She told them "no, I am a Christian and I sin all the time."

I had ambivant feelings about that..love that she is honest but "sinning all the time"?

Pushing my feelings aside I said " Yes Christains aren't different in that we never sin or do wrong. We are different by how we react when we realize we have sinned. We don't hide it. We have a God who loves us and will forgive us. So instead of hiding and running from God, we run to Him."

She said "sometimes I do lie to a person and tell them I didn't do it when I did so I dont get in trouble, but I don't lie to God. There is no point, He would know anyway."

At that point I gave her a kiss and sent her to school on the bus.

However it still has me thinking: do people really believe Christians never sin or do wrong?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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It reminds me of a conversation I had with my 9 year old daughter last week.

She told me a friend said to her on the playground that Christians never sin or do any thing wrong.

She told them "no, I am a Christian and I sin all the time."

I had ambivant feelings about that..love that she is honest but "sinning all the time"?

Pushing my feelings aside I said " Yes Christains aren't different in that we never sin or do wrong. We are different by how we react when we realize we have sinned. We don't hide it. We have a God who loves us and will forgive us. So instead of hiding and running from God, we run to Him."

She said "sometimes I do lie to a person and tell them I didn't do it when I did so I dont get in trouble, but I don't lie to God. There is no point, He would know anyway."

At that point I gave her a kiss and sent her to school on the bus.

However it still has me thinking: do people really believe Christians never sin or do wrong?
Like Jesus said.....there is none good but God...he said that with saved, immersed disciples on the earth....no matter how one slices, dices, purees, mixes, stirs, rejects and or denies the word.....even the most righteous of the bible sinned!
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Careful dcon...someone is gonna say YOU LIKE SINNING AND YOU PROMOTE THAT PEOPLE KEEP SINNING!!!

Thought if I did it for them,they would take a minute and see that YOU ARENT SAYING THAT AT ALL!

I don't like sin. I feel discouraged and ashamed when I realize that I have sinned. However,God doesn't tell us to lie and deny that we sinned and are not perfect yet, he calls us to confess and be forgiven,

Confessing our sins allows God to forgive us and show us how we can help heal the hurt our sins have caused in our loves and the lives of others.

However some people deny they sin or allow the fact they sin to crush them into helplessness.

I meet one person in the forum who preached sinless perfection. However since he wasn't sinless he didn't believe he was saved.

It was strange and bizzare how he said he would go to churches and rebuke the pastor yet didn't himself feel saved or truly a child of God. Then he wonders why he gets kicked out of churches?

I don't know. Just something else to pray about and place in God's hands.
 
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Mar 11, 2016
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abigail.pro
I love the point that you make that we now WANT to do GOD"s will and not what we used to want.

We have a changed of heart and that is powerful.

I do think we add to life by doing good works. However our good works have no effect upon our salvation status,it does have an effect on how we share Goda love and joy with the rest of the world,

How we live affects how we are able to feel God's love in our own life.
There's a verse I remember, somewhere in Paul's writings that perfectly expresses this. I can't, for the life of me, find it. Our good works are for the world.

1 Corinthians 12-20 also supports this. (Concerning food and what causes weak brothers to stumble).
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Wow I have a lot of typos..too tired to find my reading glasses. Sorry. Hope my posts still make sense.
 
Mar 11, 2016
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abigail.pro
Random fact. This year is the 500th anniversary of the reformation. My pastor is out at Germany preaching about the gospel.

More and more people are waking up from the dead works of the law, and I think it's exciting that we're all a part of this.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
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Random fact. This year is the 500th anniversary of the reformation. My pastor is out at Germany preaching about the gospel.

More and more people are waking up from the dead works of the law, and I think it's exciting that we're all a part of this.

That would mean many Jewish people are believing in the New Testament..
 
P

PHart

Guest
First it was;

1) If you stop believing, off to hell you go.

2) Then it became if you stop believing "and do something stupid," it is off to hell you go.

3) Now it is if the person doesn't transform themselves, it is off to hell they go.

The list is growing, and it's focus is never on the accomplishment of Christ, it is incessantly on man.
You were good at #1. I don't know where you're getting #2 and #3. #1 is sufficient all by itself to cause the (ex) believer to be lost on the Day of Judgment.
 
P

PHart

Guest
I Live "any way I want" NOW. I am born again, a child of God, I WANT to do His Perfect Will in my life at all times.

The Holy Spirit has directed and corrected me over the years to line up how I want to live with how He wants me to live.

I was rebellious in my walk for quite a while, reaping in painful ways that ungodly walk. I still stumble sometimes. But as I look back at that time I can literally see where the Lord sustained me, allowing the consequences of sinful behavior to draw me back into a more Godly walk and deeper relationship with Him.

If I had continued down that path, and God allowed satan to utterly destroy my flesh to the point of death, wouldn't that be better than to continue wrong living? I truly believe Romans 8:28. So because of that I trust my Heavenly Father will always do what's in the best interest of His children. The Question is ARE YOU HIS CHILD?

If yes, then you must trust that He will work ALL things for your good, and His Glory.

So ask yourself. Do you do what His Will is because YOU WANT TO and are beyond grateful, or do you do it out of fear and obligation?

If it is not the former than you better examine if you have the right Gospel. Because it ISN'T about sinful lifestyles, it's about faith, or unbelief in Jesus Christ. WHO He is and WHAT He has done.

Do YOU believe Jesus' Blood, and subsequent resurrection is sufficient for eternal life, or are you insulting the spirit of Grace by trying to add to it?
You're not addressing the question. If OSAS is true, why did the Corinthian fellow's flesh have to die in order to be saved on the day of Christ's return? We're being told here in this thread that our bad behavior has no effect whatsoever on what will happen on the Day of Christ's appearing.