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Dec 28, 2016
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so you do not believe Jesus pay the sin of the world? Hope try again
So people in hell have their sins paid for but are in hell paying for their sins which have been paid for.

Hmmm.

Christ paid for their sins, a debt they owed, but God sent them to hell anyhow to pay a debt already paid in full. Lol!!!

"Nope, try again."
 
Dec 28, 2016
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so you do not believe Jesus pay the sin of the world? Hope try again
If you mean everybody whoever lived? Nope. Try again.


If everybody whoever lived sins are paid in full, everybody whoever lived will be in heaven.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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So people in hell have their sins paid for but are in hell paying for their sins which have been paid for.

Hmmm.

Christ paid for their sins, a debt they owed, but God sent them to hell anyhow to pay a debt already paid in full. Lol!!!

"Nope, try again."
The Christ made ppl savable. That's the best their analogy can afford. He did His part, they must do theirs to reach an agreement. It's a work based salvation.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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So people in hell have their sins paid for but are in hell paying for their sins which have been paid for.

Hmmm.

Christ paid for their sins, a debt they owed, but God sent them to hell anyhow to pay a debt already paid in full. Lol!!!

"Nope, try again."
Ergo, a double payment for sin. If Christ paid for everybody's sins and ppl go to hell anyways, God spit on His Son's cross.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Let's say I pay a persons utility bill in full, the utility company knows this yet still collects payment from the person as well.

That utility company is unjust. This describes some people's "God."
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Let's say I pay a persons utility bill in full, the utility company knows this yet collects payment from the person as well.

That utility company is unjust.
And the person you paid his bill for gets electrocuted to boot.

#burnttoacrisp
#somebodysmellsmoke?
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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The Christ made ppl savable. That's the best their analogy can afford. He did His part, they must do theirs to reach an agreement.
Jesus Christ made salvation available. That's not an analogy, it's the truth. Jesus did his part, and if people want to be saved they must choose to believe. It's why we are to preach the gospel, it's why we are ambassadors for Christ: To give people a chance to hear the gospel so they can choose to believe.

It's a work based salvation.
No it is not. God requires about the least thing He could require of a person to save that person: faith. A works based salvation would be to require water baptism, doing sufficient good works, keeping the Sabbath, etc.

Like it or not, people have free will. We are responsible for our choices.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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If you mean everybody whoever lived? Nope. Try again.


If everybody whoever lived sins are paid in full, everybody whoever lived will be in heaven.
Every body is sinner, if they believe, they sin forgiven, whosoever believe in Jesus Will be forgiven.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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So people in hell have their sins paid for but are in hell paying for their sins which have been paid for.

Hmmm.

Christ paid for their sins, a debt they owed, but God sent them to hell anyhow to pay a debt already paid in full. Lol!!!

"Nope, try again."
God only pay the sin of believer, they do not need go to hell.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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spiritual death able to hear invitation for salvation
Not without the DIRECT intervention of God through the person of the Holy Spirit.

Jackson this is ground that has already been covered...
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Not without the DIRECT intervention of God through the person of the Holy Spirit.

Jackson this is ground that has already been covered...
did every body that experience intervensionisme of God accepting Jesus?

God doesn't any body perish, 2 peter 3:9 than why God not intervence all?
 
Dec 28, 2016
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God only pay the sin of believer, they do not need go to hell.
Wait, you said he paid the sins of the whole world (which means every person who ever lived by your previous stance).

Now you're saying only the sins of the believer.

So, you're now a Calvinist and embrace limited atonement!!! Welcome home, brother! Amen and amen!!! :D
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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Jackson123 said:
spiritual death able to hear invitation for salvation
Not without the DIRECT intervention of God through the person of the Holy Spirit.
That's not true. God wants every person to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4). He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9). He wants the wicked to turn from their ways so they might live (Eze 33:11).

Jackson this is ground that has already been covered...
Yes. Jackson has been patiently trying to get through to you. Apparently to no avail, so far.

God is just and God is love. God does not dictate who will choose to love Him.
 
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graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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That's not true. God wants every person to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4). He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9). He wants the wicked to turn from their ways so they might live (Eze 33:11).


Yes. Jackson has been patiently trying to get through to you. Apparently to no avail, so far.

God is just and God is love. God does not dictate who will choose to love Him.
With respect, you are confusing descriptive passages for prescriptive ones...
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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With respect, you are confusing descriptive passages for prescriptive ones...
How about here:

Mark 8:34) And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

John 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Rev 22:17) And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Are those "descriptive" rather than "prescriptive" too?

With respect, your explanation sounds like a way to dismiss verses that prove Calvinism wrong.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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How about here:

Mark 8:34) And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

John 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Rev 22:17) And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Are those "descriptive" rather than "prescriptive" too?

With respect, your explanation sounds like a way to dismiss verses that prove Calvinism wrong.
No, nothing wrong with the verses...
The question is: who actually does - and how?
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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Anyone who chooses to believe.


By hearing the gospel and choosing to believe it.
Perhaps you should meditate on the meaning of this text:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. Eph 2:8-9

The Greek text makes it even plainer that even the faith required to believe is a gift from God and is not of ourselves...