ONLY CHRIST'S ATONEMENT SATISFIES GOD

joaniemarie · Oct 2, 2017

Hello DesertRose., And I appreciate your suggestions to a degree. Except that since you don't read my posts., how can you know what I believe? Or what I believe people like Prince are saying? I'm sorry if it's difficult for me to separate your crusade to undermine evil while you at the same time count me as one who presents evil doctrine here on CC.

To correct you., I've taken many many hours to explain each and every disagreement in this perceived WOF doctrine you think I hold to 100% and what about WOF you believe to be evil. Especially since you were in this said doctrine of devils at one time in your life.

I hasten to remind you that I am not you nor are my experiences yours. Nor my interpretations of Scripture seen exactly as you see them. I do not believe as Nehemiah posted he believes I do. His explanation of me and Prince are false on so many levels yet despite my many attempts to correct him (and some others on CC) he is not hearing me any more than you are. So how do I respond? Keep on keeping on correcting you and others every day exactly the same way I already have? No way can I do that since I'd be just reposting the same thing again and again. I don't have time to win you over. That isn't my job. I've already done my part to discuss and be open. It's your turn now.

So., to reiterate ; I've already answered each and every wrong accusation concerning my ideas on healing in the atonement as well as the righteousness of Christ and my beliefs on how only Jesus Atonement satisfies God like this thread discusses. The fact is you and others here do not believe in healing in the atonement and will argue it each and every time I post any other beliefs that off shoot from that and there are many for sure. That is just the way it is. We see different interpretations about Christ's atonement.

So., instead of calling my beliefs of the devil., maybe you and Nehemiah and others could agree to disagree as that is a more profitable way to deal with our differences in doctrine. I do it here all the time. I don't like arguing about ideas we have already been clear we totally disagree about. There is no point beating a dead horse.

While I can appreciate your feelings about where you once were in your Bible understanding and your walk with Christ back then in your previous life, and how harmful those teachings were for you., They are not my findings about what the Bible says concerning what we have in Christ's atoning sacrifice on our behalf. Your conclusions and experiences are not mine. So be respectful and don't try to put your beliefs and conclusions on me. And if mine are not up to par with yours., don't accuse me of being used of the devil. (shhesshhh)

My faith in Christ's atoning sacrifice is how I look at the Bible. It has grown me and other believers the same way who hold to these Bible interpretations. We have a common ground and we are Christians no less than you are.

We believe every Christian can speak in tongues today but I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't want to. I'm a 5 fold ministry Christian and happy to be of that Scripture interpretation. And for that reason, you and I will not come to a 100% happy agreement. And so we should not engage in a fight about it.

I'm not evil nor am I un learned about the Bible. I'm 59 yrs old and have had a life on both sides of the tracks of this and ended up on this side of the tracks sort of speak. I've been healed and I've walked in many of the promises of Christ's atonement. And have yet to walk in more of His promises and look forward to that. But even though you lack experience in this., it is not my job to win you over. That's between you and Jesus.

This discussion goes beyond simple disagreement. Many Christians hold to both sides of what you and I are posting about. That is just a fact you need to acquiesce to and stop fighting against Christians like me about. It is a fact we disagree about DesertRose. I don't fight others here who disagree with me. I respect their views but I don't hold to their faith., I hold to my own faith in Christ and believe that the Lord will work these differences out as we go.

seed_time_harvest · Oct 2, 2017

Nehemiah6 said:

seed_time_harvest said:

Nehemiah6 said:

........

stonesoffire · Oct 2, 2017

Nehemiah6 said:

If you really believe that it is up to Joanie to search the scriptures for truth, then there should be no opposition from you or anyone else by the way, for scripture says if we seek, we will find.

She has testified she studies the Word. Can you not trust then?

I had to trust the Lord when a member of my family got involved with JW's. It was hard, very hard, but I knew the promises over my children and her upbringing that I gave her. The Word eventually won when I quit trying to change things.

Thats the power of the Word of God. It's Spirit and life. When one puts that in the mouth and begins to declare it in faith over situations, things change according to the will of God, and we know from the testament that His will is yes and amen to His promises.

What I see in the writings that she has posted is exactly that. JP believes in the power of intercession through the Spirit when we pray the Word, pray in Spirit. And believe what He has spoken, not wavering. Wavering is doublemindedness. And that is the demonic lies of unbelief. An anti Christ spirit.

plus, if admin has allowed these posts, who are you to tell her no.

Nehemiah6 · Oct 2, 2017

stonesoffire said:

joaniemarie can post whatever she pleases. And the admin can regulate whatever they choose to allow or disallow. But since there are many people reading these threads but may not even know the truth, it is the responsibility of Christians who do know the truth to expose false doctrine -- whether it is Joseph Prince or the Pope himself. Then it is up to you and joaniemaire and anyone else to discern what is true and what is false, and then REJECT what is false. Not continue to promote false doctrine.

Joseph Prince appears to be a wily preacher in that he presents some truth and then he presents a lot of falsehood. The text he selected had a very specific context, but he ignored the context and said "If any man sin it does NOT say he must repent. Here are his exact words: "Now, it does not say that if anyone repents, we have an Advocate with the Father". Then he twisted the meaning of repentance into a caricature. True Gospel preachers do not engage in such shenanigans.

stonesoffire · Oct 2, 2017

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocatewith the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

John is writing first not to sin. A good admonition, but if one does...JP quotes it exactly.

I don't understand your point.

stonesoffire · Oct 2, 2017

I read it again. He says the true meaning of repentance is to change your mind. That's true. Turn from sin and turn to God.

How do you view His being an advocate for us? Perhaps here lies the problem?

stonesoffire · Oct 2, 2017

Or maybe it's the next verse? He's the propitiation for our sins. An expiator.

Define expiate: to put an end to; to extinguish the guilt incurred by; to make amends for — expiate in a sentence.

UnderGrace · Oct 2, 2017

Yes I agree, but I would elaborate a bit and say change your mind about self-effort (trying to save oneself) and turn to God is also part of it.

stonesoffire said:

joaniemarie · Oct 2, 2017

Nehemiah6 said:

I believe all our sins are forgiven when we accepted Jesus Christ as our Savior. I believe the Bible when it says in Colossians 2:13 And you, BEING DEAD in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has MADE ALIVE TOGETHER WITH HIM, having forgiven ALL trespasses.

All my sins were paid for on the cross. Every last one of them. Those who have Jesus have been forgiven "once and for all" Jesus is our perfect sacrifice for sins daily. Jesus is our PERFECT new covenant HIGH PRIEST. He did ONCE FOR ALL when He offered up Himself as the perfect sacrifice for sins.

Unlike the earthly high priests of the old covenant. They had to continually make sacrifices over..... and over.... and over..... and over..... and over.... and over..... and over again. ..,,.... year after year.... after year.... after year.... after year.... after year.... Those earthly old covenant high priests were not sinless nor did they live forever., they died eventually. But Jesus lives after the power of an endless life. He EVER makes intercession for us His saints as He stands always on our behalf.

If you don't believe this than you don't believe it. But I hold to this truth and have confidence in Jesus and in the Bible and lean on these truths He promises daily. This truth also instills and endorses and supports other Bible verses like Romans 8:1 There is therefore NOW NO condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. This is solid Bible truth that is either going to be accepted or rejected. I accept it for my life and am sustained by it each day.

I have confidence that my sins are all forgiven so I can always go to the Father and receive grace and help in time of need. I'm a believer and am no longer IN my trespasses and sins as I was before being born again. Now I am IN Christ and righteous.

These Bible truths are facts as far as I'm concerned. But if you disagree... than you disagree.

UnderGrace · Oct 2, 2017

Praise God .....we can tell people they have a choice they can make...they can change their mind and believe the Gospel!!

Sometimes it takes time, but when a person says, Yes I believe, it is a wonderful thing and all heaven rejoices.

These words... So change your mind and simply believe that Jesus alone is the propitiation for your sins! .....comfort me even now....even though it is many years since I first believed

stonesoffire said:

joaniemarie · Oct 2, 2017

The Bible says we have strong consolation in these matters. God wants us to be confident and empowered with GREAT STRONG CONSOLATION. Not a swurvy curvy consolation. Confidence in Jesus finished work gives us a sure foundation. It allows us to enjoy the Lord's presence because we will be knowing He isn't waiting to punish us anymore for failures. We will know we are worthy IN CHRIST and we will be able to be renewed in our minds about who we are in Christ. In our new man. When the Holy Spirit is ministering to us about our righteousness., we will hear Him in the Word and be filled. Faith will be added unto us because faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

We will know our position doesn't change with our ever fluctuating emotions. Our position is steady and sure IN CHRIST. So in those truths and more, we can have confidence as we believe God for His love over us., for His promises to us in His Word., Alllll because we are IN Jesus who has given us HIS righeousness.

joaniemarie · Oct 2, 2017

I was reading Hebrews 8:12 and thinking on what it means. "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more. The old covenant is when God remembered the people's unrighteousness before Jesus came and died and paid for our sins.

No more means there was that time when God remembered the sins and even punished them to the third and 4th generations!!! But now., He says in Hebrews... I will remember NO MORE. I believe this and I'm always refreshed and invigorated when I dwell here on this truth that Jesus is my righteousness. He doesn't see me without Jesus. I am repenting and changing my mind more and more to believe this truth more and more.

This is how I believe we are renewed in our minds. And in this having faith in Christ and believing., I'm fulfilling the requirements of the new covenant.

joaniemarie · Oct 2, 2017

I don't understand why those who read this are not greatly encouraged and happy and joyful too!! that its the truth we all share as believers. How can anyone who is a believer find fault with this Bible truth shared??

OneFaith · Oct 2, 2017

joaniemarie said:

“Only Christ’s blood atones for sin.” Correct! HOWEVER, you need to have that blood in order for it to work. For example, let’s say the whole world broke out with a disease that kills within three months. But there was only one person in the entire world not affected by it- one man’s son.

So the father consented to have his son tested, to figure out a possible cure. After all the tests, they sat down with the father. “Good news” they said, “We found a cure.” “Great” said the father. “But...” they said, “there is no way we can get the cure without ending your son’s life.” The father’s face dropped, his heart fainted within him. It was good that he was sitting down, because even his bones could not hold him up.

He thought of how precious his son was to him, and he thought about other parents whose children look up to them with trusting eyes. He looked out the window and saw people walking, getting into cars, entering buildings. A mom was crossing the street with her little girl. She dropped her doll in the street, and let go of her mother’s hand to go back to get her doll. Her mother turned around and snatched her up right before she got hit by a car. She rushed her daughter to the sidewalk, and hugged her so tightly.

The father walked slowly down the hospital hallway, head hanging down, and a hand on his heart. He entered his son’s room, and saw him laying in his hospital bed, watching cartoons. “Daddy!” he said, “there was a commercial for this coolest toy I ever seen! Can I get one dad?” “No” he replied. “Okay” his son said sadly. He looked at his son and tears filled his eyes. “Daddy, why are you crying? I’m sorry I asked for the toy, I didn’t mean to seem selfish.” He grabbed his precious son and cried uncontrollably. Then he ran out of the room and told the doctors to go ahead.

After the funeral, a cure was made, and distributed to pharmacies, hospitals, and doctors offices around the world. A new saying became popular on hats, t-shirts, refrigerator magnets- it said “Did you take the cure?” Surprisingly, many, actually most, refused to take it, and some even made fun of the son who was sacrificed to save the world. This made the father exceedingly furious with such people.

There were some who would only take a partial dose, and died. And there were some who said they believed that the cure works- therefore they don’t need to take it, because their belief in it was sufficient. Strangers, family members, talk show hosts, news casters, all tried to convince them, but they closed their minds to the very thought of taking it. “We have proof that it only works if you take it, all of it.” they would plead. But those who refused would not budge, they would only say, “You speak lies, telling people they have to take it, when they don’t have to in order to live.” At their funerals, people just shook their heads and said “We tried.”

God chooses to give grace to those who are trying to obey Him. Those who feel they need to put forth no effort to not sin will lose Christ’s blood, thus lose their salvation. “But if you sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins.” Is obedience a requirement in this verse? “With flames of fire He will take vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the gospel of His Son.“ Is obedience a requirement in this verse? Obedience is a requirement in many verses- in order to receive Christ’s blood, because God does not grant it to everyone, but only to a select few. “Narrow is the way, and few find it.”

joaniemarie · Oct 3, 2017

Hi OneFaith., What you posted here reminds me of salvation and a very good example of people's rejecting the truth that Jesus Christ can save them and give them all they ever need. They need to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and be saved from death and hell and the penalty of sin. I agree with your example all up until the last paragraph. That is when you miss it all together.

God chooses to give grace to those who are trying to obey Him. Those who feel they need to put forth no effort to not sin will lose Christ’s blood, thus lose their salvation. “But if you sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins.” Is obedience a requirement in this verse? “With flames of fire He will take vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the gospel of His Son.“ Is obedience a requirement in this verse? Obedience is a requirement in many verses- in order to receive Christ’s blood, because God does not grant it to everyone, but only to a select few. “Narrow is the way, and few find it.”

Grace is given freely without earning it. The whole meaning of grace is about getting what we don't deserve. We don't deserve that God would remember our sins NO MORE. Read Hebrews 8:12

"For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."

This is the new covenant we are in today. All the sins God remembered were put on the body of His Son on the cross. Today we are free from the penalty of sins forever. We can't attempt to try and pay for them because when we do that, we make the sacrifice of no effect. Sure., it sounds great in the natural realm., to try and do all we can to get grace. But it goes against the grace of God and the sacrifice of Jesus 100%.

What you are describing to do here as a believer in this last paragraph is earn grace. Earn the very position Jesus has gifted to you. Your righteous standing., your right to God's love and grace is due to the gift of righteousness that Jesus bought for you and gifted to you. Grace and peace come through Jesus Christ alone. Not by our good intentions or or trying to pay Him back. We cannot pay this back. What we can do is follow Him and give Him glory for all He has done and is doing and will do in our lives. We do that by faith. Believing in the finished work of Christ is the way we fulfill or "do" our part in the new covenant.

joaniemarie · Oct 3, 2017

The doing on our part is "believe in Jesus" What do we believe? Not in the historical fact of Jesus being here on earth. But what we need to do at the very first is believe and receive Jesus as personal Lord and Savior who died on the cross for all our sins. He is the ONLY way to salvation and once we receive Him we have the gift of eternal life.

When we do that and receive Jesus and agree with God it's then He will remember our sins no more. And then we go on further as we learn what Jesus did and we begin to see the magnitude of what Jesus actually did on the cross. How the penalty of sin was paid even the guilt and shame of it.

We begin to really rest in this truth for all our mess. And then we learn how to stay out of messes because following Jesus keeps us on the path God will direct us on. We learn God's love is full and free in Christ. Our part in the new covenant is to rest in the truth of full redemption IN Christ and all our sins are forgiven fully because of Jesus. He paid for our sins 100%. We know His sacrifice paid for every wrong we do or will ever do. Every sin is forgiven and forgotten. That is what Jesus did on the cross and more.

Then we begin to walk in the goodness and grace of God for our daily life. We live and learn how to be sheep of His pasture that follow their Good Shepherd who always leads right. When we fall, He comes and gets us out of the mess. He does it because He loves us and we are His. He won't do this for sheep that are not His. We have to be put in the pasture by the Good Shepherd. We do that by believing and trusting in Him and being born again from dead in Christ to alive in Christ.

There was once a time we were dead in our trespasses and sins., We were not saved. But after receiving Jesus we were made alive IN Christ and born again in the spirit and sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise.
Now we are IN Christ and IN the family. We are sheep now who hear His voice and follow Him.

7seasrekeyed · Oct 3, 2017

this response from desertrose is deserving of another read

the problem with these posts from Prince, is that they seem to always turn into a personal confrontation between the op and whoever responds, UNLESS the responder agrees with

NO...NOT the op, but Prince

and if you disagree with Prince, then it is understood as a personal attack by the op and the entire mood changes

instead of a happy op, we have an angry op who tells those who disagree with Prince not to post on HER thread

I think desertrose has explained in a very satisfactory manner why people are both ALLOWED and in fact SHOULD respond

Prince may be the teacher of a few people here, but the majority want less than nothing to do with him and he is NOT teaching SOUND biblical principals

joaniemarie · Oct 3, 2017

joaniemarie said:

The doing on our part is "believe in Jesus" What do we believe? Not in the historical fact of Jesus being here on earth. But what we need to do at the very first is believe and receive Jesus as personal Lord and Savior who died on the cross for all our sins. He is the ONLY way to salvation and once we receive Him we have the gift of eternal life.

When we do that and receive Jesus and agree with God it's then He will remember our sins no more. And then we go on further as we learn what Jesus did and we begin to see the magnitude of what Jesus actually did on the cross. How the penalty of sin was paid even the guilt and shame of it.

We begin to really rest in this truth for all our mess. And then we learn how to stay out of messes because following Jesus keeps us on the path God will direct us on. We learn God's love is full and free in Christ. Our part in the new covenant is to rest in the truth of full redemption IN Christ and all our sins are forgiven fully because of Jesus. He paid for our sins 100%. We know His sacrifice paid for every wrong we do or will ever do. Every sin is forgiven and forgotten. That is what Jesus did on the cross and more.

Then we begin to walk in the goodness and grace of God for our daily life. We live and learn how to be sheep of His pasture that follow their Good Shepherd who always leads right. When we fall, He comes and gets us out of the mess. He does it because He loves us and we are His. He won't do this for sheep that are not His. We have to be put in the pasture by the Good Shepherd. We do that by believing and trusting in Him and being born again from dead in Christ to alive in Christ.

There was once a time we were dead in our trespasses and sins., We were not saved. But after receiving Jesus we were made alive IN Christ and born again in the spirit and sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise.
Now we are IN Christ and IN the family. We are sheep now who hear His voice and follow Him.

To 7seas.... note ... these are my words...

joaniemarie · Oct 3, 2017

joaniemarie said:

Hi OneFaith., What you posted here reminds me of salvation and a very good example of people's rejecting the truth that Jesus Christ can save them and give them all they ever need. They need to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and be saved from death and hell and the penalty of sin. I agree with your example all up until the last paragraph. That is when you miss it all together.

God chooses to give grace to those who are trying to obey Him. Those who feel they need to put forth no effort to not sin will lose Christ’s blood, thus lose their salvation. “But if you sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins.” Is obedience a requirement in this verse? “With flames of fire He will take vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the gospel of His Son.“ Is obedience a requirement in this verse? Obedience is a requirement in many verses- in order to receive Christ’s blood, because God does not grant it to everyone, but only to a select few. “Narrow is the way, and few find it.”

Grace is given freely without earning it. The whole meaning of grace is about getting what we don't deserve. We don't deserve that God would remember our sins NO MORE. Read Hebrews 8:12

"For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."

This is the new covenant we are in today. All the sins God remembered were put on the body of His Son on the cross. Today we are free from the penalty of sins forever. We can't attempt to try and pay for them because when we do that, we make the sacrifice of no effect. Sure., it sounds great in the natural realm., to try and do all we can to get grace. But it goes against the grace of God and the sacrifice of Jesus 100%.

What you are describing to do here as a believer in this last paragraph is earn grace. Earn the very position Jesus has gifted to you. Your righteous standing., your right to God's love and grace is due to the gift of righteousness that Jesus bought for you and gifted to you. Grace and peace come through Jesus Christ alone. Not by our good intentions or or trying to pay Him back. We cannot pay this back. What we can do is follow Him and give Him glory for all He has done and is doing and will do in our lives. We do that by faith. Believing in the finished work of Christ is the way we fulfill or "do" our part in the new covenant.

My words yet again.....

joaniemarie · Oct 3, 2017

joaniemarie said:

I was reading Hebrews 8:12 and thinking on what it means. "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more. The old covenant is when God remembered the people's unrighteousness before Jesus came and died and paid for our sins.

No more means there was that time when God remembered the sins and even punished them to the third and 4th generations!!! But now., He says in Hebrews... I will remember NO MORE. I believe this and I'm always refreshed and invigorated when I dwell here on this truth that Jesus is my righteousness. He doesn't see me without Jesus. I am repenting and changing my mind more and more to believe this truth more and more.

This is how I believe we are renewed in our minds. And in this having faith in Christ and believing., I'm fulfilling the requirements of the new covenant.

And again.... more of my words.....

ONLY CHRIST'S ATONEMENT SATISFIES GOD

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