Not By Works
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Yet the Word of God says.......
Hebrews 10:26-27
26, For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, 27, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.
2 Peter 2:20-22
20, For if, after they have escaped the defilement of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein and overcome, the last state is become worse with them than the first. 21, For it were better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22, It has happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog turning to his own vomit again, and the sow that had washed to wallowing in the mire.
Hebrews 6:4-8
4, For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7, For the land which hath drunk the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receiveth blessing from God: 8, but if it bears thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned.
Who should we believe God or man?
Hebrews 10:26-27
26, For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, 27, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.
2 Peter 2:20-22
20, For if, after they have escaped the defilement of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein and overcome, the last state is become worse with them than the first. 21, For it were better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22, It has happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog turning to his own vomit again, and the sow that had washed to wallowing in the mire.
Hebrews 6:4-8
4, For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7, For the land which hath drunk the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receiveth blessing from God: 8, but if it bears thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned.
Who should we believe God or man?
NO, Easy Believism Preachers have LOWERED God's definition of what a True Believer actually is.
And you CERTAINLY ARE WRONG about what the BIBLE actually says:
1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
John 17:12 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] While I was with them, I was protecting them by Your name that You have given Me. I guarded them and not one of them is lost, except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture may be fulfilled.
John 18:9 (NRSV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] This was to fulfill the word that he had spoken, "I did not lose a single one of those whom You gave Me."
Hebrews 13:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
And you CERTAINLY ARE WRONG about what the BIBLE actually says:
1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
John 17:12 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] While I was with them, I was protecting them by Your name that You have given Me. I guarded them and not one of them is lost, except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture may be fulfilled.
John 18:9 (NRSV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] This was to fulfill the word that he had spoken, "I did not lose a single one of those whom You gave Me."
Hebrews 13:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
THOSE were the COUNTERFEIT, PRETEND CHRISTIANS who only TASTED, whereas WE HAVE CONSUMED.
THEY ARE THE SAME PHONY CHRISTIANS THAT JESUS WARNED US ABOUT:
Matthew 7:15-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
THEY ARE THE SAME PHONY CHRISTIANS THAT JESUS WARNED US ABOUT:
Matthew 7:15-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
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Can someone who was once a believer depart from the faith?
1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
Who is a believer and can a believer become an unbeliever and depart from the faith?
A "Believer" one that is abiding and following God in the present tense of the Word. An "Unbeliever" is one that is not believing and following God's Word in the present tense.
What does God say?
Eze 3:20
Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Eze 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.
Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Mat 13:18-23
Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that hears the word, and anon with joy receiveth it <believer>Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution arise because of the word, by and by he is offended ,<Believer leaves God>
Mat 13:22,
He also that received seed among the thorns is he that hears the word <believer>; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful <Believer leaves God>.
Mat 13:23,
But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also bears fruit, and brings forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty <Saved believer staying with Christ>.
More Scripture support: (from another post)
Colossians 1v21-23
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled <become believers> [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— [SUP]23 [/SUP]if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-These were believers above
-They were to be presented holy, blameless and above reproach (no scope for unrepentant sin in a believers life)
-this is possible (IF THEY CONTINUED IN THE FAITH) - grounded, steadfast, not moved.
Other evidences:
Luke 22 v31-32
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And the Lord said,[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]c[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. [SUP]32 [/SUP]But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”
Now what is plain to see is this:
-If it were not possible for faith to fail, as the strong delusionalists claim, then it would not be necessary for Jesus to have had to pray to the Father this prayer above.
1 Timothy 2 v18-20
[SUP]18 [/SUP]This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, [SUP]19 [/SUP]having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, [SUP]20 [/SUP]of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.
2 Timothy 2 v16-19
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, [SUP]18 [/SUP]who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]c[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] depart from iniquity.”
Now what is plain to see is this:
-its possible to stray concerning the truth
-its possible to once have known the truth but to have strayed therefrom
-faith can be overthrown.
-these people are no longer saved. Because you can only receive salvation through faith.
-sin is still a factor " Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity". Contrary to what the strong delusionalists say.
Jude
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-contending for the faith - its a prize. It is to be protected, defended, fought for.
-by not contending for this, it can be lost.
2 Timothy 4v7-8
[SUP]7 [/SUP]I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:[SUP]8 [/SUP]Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-Paul, writer of most of the New Testament, fought the good fight. Finished the course. And KEPT the faith.
-why would it be necessary for him to write about "kept the faith" if it wasn't possible to have lost faith.
1 John 5v4
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]a[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] faith.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-Our faith is what overcomes the world. We are supposed to OVERCOME THE WORLD.
-What is the world? (definition:1 John 2v16 [SUP]16 [/SUP]For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world).
Revelation 2v10b
10(b) Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-Faith is not a once off, momentary decision, applicable for all time.
-Faith, once received, once believed, is to be maintained.
-the corollary is this - if you are NOT faithful until death, or lose your faith, you shall not receive the crown of life.
The word is very clear - its to him who overcomes:
Revelation 2v7b To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life
Revelation 2v11b He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.
Revelation 2v17b To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat.
Revelation 2v26 [SUP]26 [/SUP]And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—
Revelation 3v5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life
Revelation 3v12He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more.
Revelation 3v21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne
Now to those who lose the faith. Who once had the faith yet turned their backs on Christ, we have the subject matter of the 'other' thread. Which is clearly visible for all to see below:
Hebrews 6v4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away,[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]b[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-Let there no illusions that these were believers, and were once in the faith.
-once they "fall away" (and we can see that this is a very real risk warned about by the NT writers, as well as Jesus) to be renewed again unto repentance.
Hebrews 10v26-27
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Parable of the Sower (falling away)
MATT 13
[SUP]18,[/SUP] Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. [SUP]19, [/SUP]When any one hears the word of the kingdom, and understands it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catches away that which was sown in his heart <UNBELIEVER>. This is he which received seed by the way side. [SUP]20,[/SUP] But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that hears the word, and for a while with joy receives it <BELIEVER>; [SUP]21, [/SUP]Yet hath he not root in himself, but endures for a while: for when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, by and by he is offended <FALLS AWAY>. [SUP]22,[/SUP] He also that received seed among the thorns is he that hears the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful <BELIEVER THAT FALLS AWAY>.
[SUP]23, [/SUP]But he that received seed into the good ground is he that hears the word, and understands it; which also bears fruit, and brings forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty <BELIEVER>.
Example of Judas
The facts are these;
1. Judas was one of the 12 disciples. You cannot be one of the 12 disciples without being a believer
2. He for a time was following Jesus and put in a responsibility of trust.
3. He was given the Holy Spirit and went out preaching the Gospel
3. He believed Jesus then he betrayed and fell away from Jesus and went back into the world. He was a believer that left God.
Scripture proof line upon line:
Matt 10:1-5; Matt 26:14; Luke 22:48; 23:3; Heb 6:4-8; Heb 10:26-27; John 15:1-10; John 14:15
Matthew 24:13
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
"...you are saved if you hold fast the word till the end..." (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB)
You can indeed lose your salvation if you choose to live in a life of unrepentant sin. We only have today! In times of ignorance God winks at by now commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the Gospel.
If we break one of God's commandments we stand before God of breaking all of them. This includes the 4th commandment, God's 7th Day Sabbath.
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. Today if you hear his voice harden not your heart...
May God bless you as you seek him through his Word...
1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
Who is a believer and can a believer become an unbeliever and depart from the faith?
A "Believer" one that is abiding and following God in the present tense of the Word. An "Unbeliever" is one that is not believing and following God's Word in the present tense.
What does God say?
Eze 3:20
Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Eze 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.
Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Mat 13:18-23
Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that hears the word, and anon with joy receiveth it <believer>Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution arise because of the word, by and by he is offended ,<Believer leaves God>
Mat 13:22,
He also that received seed among the thorns is he that hears the word <believer>; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful <Believer leaves God>.
Mat 13:23,
But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also bears fruit, and brings forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty <Saved believer staying with Christ>.
More Scripture support: (from another post)
Colossians 1v21-23
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled <become believers> [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— [SUP]23 [/SUP]if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-These were believers above
-They were to be presented holy, blameless and above reproach (no scope for unrepentant sin in a believers life)
-this is possible (IF THEY CONTINUED IN THE FAITH) - grounded, steadfast, not moved.
Other evidences:
Luke 22 v31-32
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And the Lord said,[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]c[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. [SUP]32 [/SUP]But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”
Now what is plain to see is this:
-If it were not possible for faith to fail, as the strong delusionalists claim, then it would not be necessary for Jesus to have had to pray to the Father this prayer above.
1 Timothy 2 v18-20
[SUP]18 [/SUP]This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, [SUP]19 [/SUP]having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, [SUP]20 [/SUP]of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.
2 Timothy 2 v16-19
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, [SUP]18 [/SUP]who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]c[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] depart from iniquity.”
Now what is plain to see is this:
-its possible to stray concerning the truth
-its possible to once have known the truth but to have strayed therefrom
-faith can be overthrown.
-these people are no longer saved. Because you can only receive salvation through faith.
-sin is still a factor " Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity". Contrary to what the strong delusionalists say.
Jude
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-contending for the faith - its a prize. It is to be protected, defended, fought for.
-by not contending for this, it can be lost.
2 Timothy 4v7-8
[SUP]7 [/SUP]I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:[SUP]8 [/SUP]Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-Paul, writer of most of the New Testament, fought the good fight. Finished the course. And KEPT the faith.
-why would it be necessary for him to write about "kept the faith" if it wasn't possible to have lost faith.
1 John 5v4
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]a[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] faith.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-Our faith is what overcomes the world. We are supposed to OVERCOME THE WORLD.
-What is the world? (definition:1 John 2v16 [SUP]16 [/SUP]For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world).
Revelation 2v10b
10(b) Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-Faith is not a once off, momentary decision, applicable for all time.
-Faith, once received, once believed, is to be maintained.
-the corollary is this - if you are NOT faithful until death, or lose your faith, you shall not receive the crown of life.
The word is very clear - its to him who overcomes:
Revelation 2v7b To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life
Revelation 2v11b He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.
Revelation 2v17b To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat.
Revelation 2v26 [SUP]26 [/SUP]And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—
Revelation 3v5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life
Revelation 3v12He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more.
Revelation 3v21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne
Now to those who lose the faith. Who once had the faith yet turned their backs on Christ, we have the subject matter of the 'other' thread. Which is clearly visible for all to see below:
Hebrews 6v4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away,[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]b[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-Let there no illusions that these were believers, and were once in the faith.
-once they "fall away" (and we can see that this is a very real risk warned about by the NT writers, as well as Jesus) to be renewed again unto repentance.
Hebrews 10v26-27
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Parable of the Sower (falling away)
MATT 13
[SUP]18,[/SUP] Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. [SUP]19, [/SUP]When any one hears the word of the kingdom, and understands it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catches away that which was sown in his heart <UNBELIEVER>. This is he which received seed by the way side. [SUP]20,[/SUP] But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that hears the word, and for a while with joy receives it <BELIEVER>; [SUP]21, [/SUP]Yet hath he not root in himself, but endures for a while: for when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, by and by he is offended <FALLS AWAY>. [SUP]22,[/SUP] He also that received seed among the thorns is he that hears the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful <BELIEVER THAT FALLS AWAY>.
[SUP]23, [/SUP]But he that received seed into the good ground is he that hears the word, and understands it; which also bears fruit, and brings forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty <BELIEVER>.
Example of Judas
The facts are these;
1. Judas was one of the 12 disciples. You cannot be one of the 12 disciples without being a believer
2. He for a time was following Jesus and put in a responsibility of trust.
3. He was given the Holy Spirit and went out preaching the Gospel
3. He believed Jesus then he betrayed and fell away from Jesus and went back into the world. He was a believer that left God.
Scripture proof line upon line:
Matt 10:1-5; Matt 26:14; Luke 22:48; 23:3; Heb 6:4-8; Heb 10:26-27; John 15:1-10; John 14:15
Matthew 24:13
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
"...you are saved if you hold fast the word till the end..." (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB)
You can indeed lose your salvation if you choose to live in a life of unrepentant sin. We only have today! In times of ignorance God winks at by now commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the Gospel.
If we break one of God's commandments we stand before God of breaking all of them. This includes the 4th commandment, God's 7th Day Sabbath.
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. Today if you hear his voice harden not your heart...
May God bless you as you seek him through his Word...
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"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Romans 7:12-25,
12, “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13, "Was then that which is good made death unto me? By no means. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14, "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15, "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that I do.
16, "If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17, "Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
18, "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19, "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20, "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwell in me.
21, "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22, "For I delight in the law of יהוה after the inward man:
23, "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
24, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25, "Thanks be to יהוה through Yahushua the Messiah our Saviour. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of יהוה; but with the flesh the law of sin."
Romans 8:5-8,
5, "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7, "Because the carnal mind is enmity (bitterly opposed) against יהוה: for it is not subject to the law of יהוה, neither indeed can be.
8, "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please יהוה.”
Romans 7:12-25,
12, “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13, "Was then that which is good made death unto me? By no means. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14, "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15, "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that I do.
16, "If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17, "Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
18, "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19, "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20, "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwell in me.
21, "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22, "For I delight in the law of יהוה after the inward man:
23, "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
24, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25, "Thanks be to יהוה through Yahushua the Messiah our Saviour. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of יהוה; but with the flesh the law of sin."
Romans 8:5-8,
5, "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7, "Because the carnal mind is enmity (bitterly opposed) against יהוה: for it is not subject to the law of יהוה, neither indeed can be.
8, "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please יהוה.”
YOUR FIRST SENTENCE - sounds like it could be blasphemy to me.
YOUR SECOND TO THE LAST SENTENCE - IS EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE TO EVERY PERSON WHO HAS EVER SERVED THEIR COUNTRY IN THE ARMED FORCES.
Military Personnel are SERVING GOD AND COUNTRY when they SERVE:
Romans 13:1-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are instituted by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] So then, the one who resists the authority is opposing God’s command, and those who oppose it will bring judgment on themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have its approval.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For government is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not carry the sword for no reason. For government is God’s servant, an avenger that brings wrath on the one who does wrong.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore, you must submit, not only because of wrath, but also because of your conscience.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And for this reason you pay taxes, since the ⌊authorities⌋ are God’s public servants, continually attending to these tasks.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Pay your obligations to everyone: taxes to those you owe taxes, tolls to those you owe tolls, respect to those you owe respect, and honor to those you owe honor.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Do not owe anyone anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
YOU DID NOT SERVE DID YOU?
YOUR SECOND TO THE LAST SENTENCE - IS EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE TO EVERY PERSON WHO HAS EVER SERVED THEIR COUNTRY IN THE ARMED FORCES.
Military Personnel are SERVING GOD AND COUNTRY when they SERVE:
Romans 13:1-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are instituted by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] So then, the one who resists the authority is opposing God’s command, and those who oppose it will bring judgment on themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have its approval.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For government is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not carry the sword for no reason. For government is God’s servant, an avenger that brings wrath on the one who does wrong.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore, you must submit, not only because of wrath, but also because of your conscience.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And for this reason you pay taxes, since the ⌊authorities⌋ are God’s public servants, continually attending to these tasks.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Pay your obligations to everyone: taxes to those you owe taxes, tolls to those you owe tolls, respect to those you owe respect, and honor to those you owe honor.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Do not owe anyone anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
YOU DID NOT SERVE DID YOU?
A prisoner is someone who cannot escape a captive situation, a freeman or a bond servant
is someone who chooses their allegiance.
Paul, Peter, John were servants of Christ. A servant chooses to stay with their Lord.
The only kingdom that has slaves who do not choose is the kingdom of darkness where
the people cannot see a way out.
is someone who chooses their allegiance.
Paul, Peter, John were servants of Christ. A servant chooses to stay with their Lord.
The only kingdom that has slaves who do not choose is the kingdom of darkness where
the people cannot see a way out.
How can you be a preacher for truth if you do not know the Word of truth? As for me I follow no man, church or woman. I follow him who calls me and know me by name. Who am I but a no one. I love him because he first loved me. He bares witness with my Spirit that I walk in him and he in me because of the faith I have in his Word. If you do not know God's Word it is because you do not know him. He that says I know him and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. It is hard to kick against the pricks.... God's sheep hear his voice... If I speak only God's Word why do you not believe him?
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Great info Preacher4Truth. If we learn the True Gospel we won't get caught believing a lie.
False gospel = false christ.
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2Timothy2:15
Walter Ralston Martin (1928 - 1989), was an Evangelical Christian apologist who founded the Christian Research Institute in 1960 as a para-church ministry specialising as a clearing-house of information in both general Christian apologetics and in countercult apologetics.
$7.99
Barnes & Noble
Attribute: Book Review: "Kingdom of the Cults" by Walter Martin (The Prayer Foundation)
False gospel = false christ.
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2Timothy2:15
Walter Ralston Martin (1928 - 1989), was an Evangelical Christian apologist who founded the Christian Research Institute in 1960 as a para-church ministry specialising as a clearing-house of information in both general Christian apologetics and in countercult apologetics.
$7.99
Barnes & Noble
Attribute: Book Review: "Kingdom of the Cults" by Walter Martin (The Prayer Foundation)
[video=youtube;-YZ5b6UJ1NQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YZ5b6UJ1NQ[/video]
This only shows you point people to the teachings of man over the Word of God. We should not point people to the teachings of men over the Word of God. He must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. We ought to obey God rather than man. God is love and he that dwells in love dwells in God. If the blind lead the blind both will fall into the ditch. Only the mirror shows the way...
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They also said Jesus has a devil because they did not believe God's Word. For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The fruit of the Spirit is love. If you have no love how can you know him who loves all? And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, lest his works should be reproved. But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God.
Who should we believe the Word of God or the Word of man?
Who should we believe the Word of God or the Word of man?
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The idea about serving God is defending justice and truth against tyranny and murder.
But if the government or commander flips to the wrong side who are you serving?
When a soldier is given an illegal order, the order does not make the soldier innocent.
It appears that some put country and honour before God.
And ofcourse which ever way I put my position someone will be insulted.
So what do you think of history? The slave trade, the opium wars, the exploitation of
population groups for the aim of power and glory?
This is not something I know about personally, but I do feel disturbed to know that the
British Empire sold opium to China to get tea in exchange. Or vast wealth was gained
on the back of slaves from Africa.
Or a massive war was waged in vietnam, lost and now we trade openly with vietnam to
make clothes for our consumer shops. There is an irony of paranoia and fear, of propoganda,
of rushing in to other cultures and injustices, and imposing our own, like Afghanistan or Iraq.
And you are wrong. I believe in the army, police, navy, airforce, like every wing of justice, but
not above its role or place. Everyone should serve and take justice and defence seriously,
but in the Kingdom our message is love overcomes all. It strikes me, this does not chime well
with you, rather the heroic soldier chimes more strongly. We are called to be servants of Christ,
not soldiers, because our mission is not to destroy our enemies but help save those who will
listen. All the apostles died martyred deaths, preaching a message of hope rather than rights and
defence. Maybe you missed this....
But if the government or commander flips to the wrong side who are you serving?
When a soldier is given an illegal order, the order does not make the soldier innocent.
It appears that some put country and honour before God.
And ofcourse which ever way I put my position someone will be insulted.
So what do you think of history? The slave trade, the opium wars, the exploitation of
population groups for the aim of power and glory?
This is not something I know about personally, but I do feel disturbed to know that the
British Empire sold opium to China to get tea in exchange. Or vast wealth was gained
on the back of slaves from Africa.
Or a massive war was waged in vietnam, lost and now we trade openly with vietnam to
make clothes for our consumer shops. There is an irony of paranoia and fear, of propoganda,
of rushing in to other cultures and injustices, and imposing our own, like Afghanistan or Iraq.
And you are wrong. I believe in the army, police, navy, airforce, like every wing of justice, but
not above its role or place. Everyone should serve and take justice and defence seriously,
but in the Kingdom our message is love overcomes all. It strikes me, this does not chime well
with you, rather the heroic soldier chimes more strongly. We are called to be servants of Christ,
not soldiers, because our mission is not to destroy our enemies but help save those who will
listen. All the apostles died martyred deaths, preaching a message of hope rather than rights and
defence. Maybe you missed this....
You still do not get it. We are not called to know, just to love and walk in His ways.
Those of the Kingdom just walk in the Kingdom.
Who are we to say, which words or timings the Lord will use, but just to be faithful
to the work He has done in our hearts.
What is telling is the line you guys want to draw, as if what you are sharing is significant.
The way you talk speaks volumes about where you are, and how defeated and distracted
you are living, as if what you have is all there is.
It is not the places we find ourselves in that define us, but when Jesus turns on the light,
what we do in response. The light came to show us the way out, and walk in life, not
death, to learn how to love each other from the heart, because we have met the Lord.
Ironically I know your response is to reach for verses rather than bow in humbleness
before the King, and offer praise and thanks for His grace and mercy through the cross,
that we might learn how to follow.
It is only in humbleness do we begin to see who He really is.
Those of the Kingdom just walk in the Kingdom.
Who are we to say, which words or timings the Lord will use, but just to be faithful
to the work He has done in our hearts.
What is telling is the line you guys want to draw, as if what you are sharing is significant.
The way you talk speaks volumes about where you are, and how defeated and distracted
you are living, as if what you have is all there is.
It is not the places we find ourselves in that define us, but when Jesus turns on the light,
what we do in response. The light came to show us the way out, and walk in life, not
death, to learn how to love each other from the heart, because we have met the Lord.
Ironically I know your response is to reach for verses rather than bow in humbleness
before the King, and offer praise and thanks for His grace and mercy through the cross,
that we might learn how to follow.
It is only in humbleness do we begin to see who He really is.