Not By Works
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Once Salvation is obtained it can not be lost.
However, this is when salvation is obtained;
1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”
With that said Yah knows already who will obtain eternal redemption and enter His kingdom...
However, this is when salvation is obtained;
1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”
With that said Yah knows already who will obtain eternal redemption and enter His kingdom...
J
Preacher simply used websites and other modern tools to tell to others what some people have found SDA to be,that is not to be misinterpreted as that he trusts "People's word" over "God's word" he was just telling of "witnesses and accounts" in modern day that he believes to be accurate and tie into the bible but he still trusts the bible over these witnesses and accounts,it's just a matter of further verification not believing upon someone's teachings or views over God's word the bible.
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HE COMMANDED US TO DO BOTH:
Matthew 22:16-22 (CSBBible)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] So they sent their disciples to him, along with the Herodians. "Teacher," they said, "we know that you are truthful and teach truthfully the way of God. You don't care what anyone thinks nor do you show partiality.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar or not??"
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Perceiving their malicious intent, Jesus said, "Why are you testing me, hypocrites?
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Show me the coin used for the tax." They brought him a denarius.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "Whose image and inscription is this?" he asked them.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]"Caesar's," they said to him.
Then he said to them, "Give, then, to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."
[SUP]22 [/SUP] When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.
Romans 13:1-10 (CSBBible)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]
Let everyone submit to the governing authorities, since there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are instituted by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] So then, the one who resists the authority is opposing God's command, and those who oppose it will bring judgment on themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have its approval.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For it is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not carry the sword for no reason. For it is God's servant, an avenger that brings wrath on the one who does wrong.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore, you must submit, not only because of wrath but also because of your conscience.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And for this reason you pay taxes, since the authorities are God's servants, continually attending to these tasks.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Pay your obligations to everyone: taxes to those you owe taxes, tolls to those you owe tolls, respect to those you owe respect, and honor to those you owe honor.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]
Do not owe anyone anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The commandments, Do not commit adultery; do not murder; do not steal; do not covet; and any other commandment, are summed up by this commandment: Love your neighbor as yourself.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Love, therefore, is the fulfillment of the law.
1 Peter 2:13-19 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
[SUP]16 [/SUP] as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.
Matthew 22:16-22 (CSBBible)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] So they sent their disciples to him, along with the Herodians. "Teacher," they said, "we know that you are truthful and teach truthfully the way of God. You don't care what anyone thinks nor do you show partiality.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar or not??"
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Perceiving their malicious intent, Jesus said, "Why are you testing me, hypocrites?
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Show me the coin used for the tax." They brought him a denarius.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "Whose image and inscription is this?" he asked them.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]"Caesar's," they said to him.
Then he said to them, "Give, then, to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."
[SUP]22 [/SUP] When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.
Romans 13:1-10 (CSBBible)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]
Let everyone submit to the governing authorities, since there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are instituted by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] So then, the one who resists the authority is opposing God's command, and those who oppose it will bring judgment on themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have its approval.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For it is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not carry the sword for no reason. For it is God's servant, an avenger that brings wrath on the one who does wrong.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore, you must submit, not only because of wrath but also because of your conscience.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And for this reason you pay taxes, since the authorities are God's servants, continually attending to these tasks.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Pay your obligations to everyone: taxes to those you owe taxes, tolls to those you owe tolls, respect to those you owe respect, and honor to those you owe honor.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]
Do not owe anyone anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The commandments, Do not commit adultery; do not murder; do not steal; do not covet; and any other commandment, are summed up by this commandment: Love your neighbor as yourself.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Love, therefore, is the fulfillment of the law.
1 Peter 2:13-19 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
[SUP]16 [/SUP] as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 5:29, "And Kĕpha and the other emissaries answering, said, “We have to obey Yah rather than men.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Act 4:19, "But Kĕpha and Yoḥanan answering them, said, “Whether it is right in the sight of Yah to listen to you more than to Yah you judge.”
Render unto ceaser what is his, well ceasear is not my creator so...
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Act 4:19, "But Kĕpha and Yoḥanan answering them, said, “Whether it is right in the sight of Yah to listen to you more than to Yah you judge.”
Render unto ceaser what is his, well ceasear is not my creator so...
[/FONT]
Sorry Joe I respectfully disagree. P4T was pointing people to the teachings of man over the Word of God. Instead of talking God's Word (scripture) many here point people to the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God. Yet it is only in the Word of God that anyone can know the truth and find Jesus. P4T claims he does not do this and he did not and accused me of lying. He has been caught out with His own words in Post 39864 and Post 39880 but now closes his eyes refuses to apologize. Only God's Word and the truth matters. Who should we choose God or man?
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Hi VCO,
God only calls us to follow the laws of the land as long as they do no conflict with the Laws of God. Now if God commands us "Thou Shalt not kill" and the laws of the land tell us to kill. Who should we obey God or man? We must obey God rather then man (Acts 5:29). But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. (Acts 4:19). see also many examples of God's people not following the laws of the land when they conflict with God's commandments (see Daniel Chapter 3) etc etc
God only calls us to follow the laws of the land as long as they do no conflict with the Laws of God. Now if God commands us "Thou Shalt not kill" and the laws of the land tell us to kill. Who should we obey God or man? We must obey God rather then man (Acts 5:29). But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. (Acts 4:19). see also many examples of God's people not following the laws of the land when they conflict with God's commandments (see Daniel Chapter 3) etc etc
If works were the direct results of salvation and you are claiming that you are a SINNER, what kind of works does a sinner (transgressor of the law of God- 1 john 3:4) like you, are the result of the salvation that you are claiming?
Do you obey God’s commandments?
Can your disobedience to God still save you?
By saying that God is the One doing all the work in a believer, is He also the One sinning when you sin?
Who are the workers of iniquity? Aren’t they those who do not obey the commands of the One they claim or call Lord(Master) but would rather teach that obedience to the Law of God is a work of the flesh that is not worthy of salvation? Still claiming boldly and boastfully that they are SINNERS, they claim at the same time that they already possess ETERNAL SALVATION regardless of sins they have committed in the past, present and interestingly even sins they will commit in the future because according to them FORGIVEN IS FORGIVEN, thus repentance and asking for forgiveness is unnecessary and are just damnable works in the same way they treat believing and trusting in God to the end (continuous).
THEY ATTACK THOSE WHO ARE KEEPING THE LAW IN OBEDIENCE, LOVE AND FEAR OF THE LORD AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF BEING JUSTIFIED BY THAT LAW WHICH WERE NEVER GIVEN TO THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE FOR BEING GENTILE (UNCIRCUMCISION/ NOT UNDER THE LAW) AND NOT JEWS WHO ARE THE CIRCUMCISED AND UNDER THE LAW.
WHO ARE THE GENTILES?
Ephesians 2:11-12 Therefore, remember that ye, being in times past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by those who are called the Circumcision in the flesh so made by hands— remember that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
WHO ARE THE JEWS?
Romans 9:4-5 who are Israelites and to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers, and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 2:24-29 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.” Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. IF THOSE WHO ARE NOT CIRCUMCISED KEEP THE LAW'S REQUIREMENTS, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? The one who is not circumcised physically and yet OBEYS THE LAW will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker. A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.
1 Corinthians 4:5-7 Therefore JUDGE NOTHING BEFORE THE APPOINTED TIME; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will EXPOSE THE MOTIVES OF MEN’S HEARTS. At that time each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For WHO MAKES YOU DIFFERENT FROM ANYONE ELSE? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you BOAST as though you did not?
Philippians 1:15-17 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, NOT SINCERELY, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.
Posted by dcontroversial (post# page 1972)
Where does it say they rejected his commandments...it states clearly that he never knew them....which goes to the root of salvation...they trusted WORKS in his name as their ticket..and the bible is clear...works do not save, keep saved or facillitate salvation, but rather are the direct result of the salvation and faith one already possesses in Christ....
Galatians is clear...faith plus works = gospel of a different kind with no power to save....
Any gospel embellished with works to gain, keep or facillitate salvation has no power to save.
And law was designed to prove men's guilt before God and will never save or keep saved Romans 3.....it points to the cure....faith into the work of Christ......
and post away migo...if I agree I will like...if I disagree I will fire on it bro.
Do you obey God’s commandments?
Can your disobedience to God still save you?
By saying that God is the One doing all the work in a believer, is He also the One sinning when you sin?
Who are the workers of iniquity? Aren’t they those who do not obey the commands of the One they claim or call Lord(Master) but would rather teach that obedience to the Law of God is a work of the flesh that is not worthy of salvation? Still claiming boldly and boastfully that they are SINNERS, they claim at the same time that they already possess ETERNAL SALVATION regardless of sins they have committed in the past, present and interestingly even sins they will commit in the future because according to them FORGIVEN IS FORGIVEN, thus repentance and asking for forgiveness is unnecessary and are just damnable works in the same way they treat believing and trusting in God to the end (continuous).
THEY ATTACK THOSE WHO ARE KEEPING THE LAW IN OBEDIENCE, LOVE AND FEAR OF THE LORD AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF BEING JUSTIFIED BY THAT LAW WHICH WERE NEVER GIVEN TO THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE FOR BEING GENTILE (UNCIRCUMCISION/ NOT UNDER THE LAW) AND NOT JEWS WHO ARE THE CIRCUMCISED AND UNDER THE LAW.
WHO ARE THE GENTILES?
Ephesians 2:11-12 Therefore, remember that ye, being in times past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by those who are called the Circumcision in the flesh so made by hands— remember that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
WHO ARE THE JEWS?
Romans 9:4-5 who are Israelites and to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers, and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 2:24-29 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.” Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. IF THOSE WHO ARE NOT CIRCUMCISED KEEP THE LAW'S REQUIREMENTS, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? The one who is not circumcised physically and yet OBEYS THE LAW will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker. A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.
1 Corinthians 4:5-7 Therefore JUDGE NOTHING BEFORE THE APPOINTED TIME; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will EXPOSE THE MOTIVES OF MEN’S HEARTS. At that time each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For WHO MAKES YOU DIFFERENT FROM ANYONE ELSE? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you BOAST as though you did not?
Philippians 1:15-17 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, NOT SINCERELY, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.
Posted by dcontroversial (post# page 1972)
Where does it say they rejected his commandments...it states clearly that he never knew them....which goes to the root of salvation...they trusted WORKS in his name as their ticket..and the bible is clear...works do not save, keep saved or facillitate salvation, but rather are the direct result of the salvation and faith one already possesses in Christ....
Galatians is clear...faith plus works = gospel of a different kind with no power to save....
Any gospel embellished with works to gain, keep or facillitate salvation has no power to save.
And law was designed to prove men's guilt before God and will never save or keep saved Romans 3.....it points to the cure....faith into the work of Christ......
and post away migo...if I agree I will like...if I disagree I will fire on it bro.
Isaiah 46:10, “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from of old that which has not yet been done, saying, ‘My counsel does stand, and all My delight I do.”
The way I see it, salvation may be a sure thing right now, but that is Yah's choice and He currently "holds it", thus we have not yet obtained it, once we do it is forever. Also when I say Salvation im talking about eternal life in His kingdom.
1 Corinthians 4:4-5, “For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is יהוה! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from יהוה.”
James 1:12, “Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him.”
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”[/FONT]
The way I see it, salvation may be a sure thing right now, but that is Yah's choice and He currently "holds it", thus we have not yet obtained it, once we do it is forever. Also when I say Salvation im talking about eternal life in His kingdom.
1 Corinthians 4:4-5, “For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is יהוה! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from יהוה.”
2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”
James 1:12, “Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him.”
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”[/FONT]
J
Ye know the answer,God hath knowledge that we have not,but asking for an apology is not always a good idea,for one feels accused at times and it can lead one to be enraged,many are they that serve God yet shall receive no thanks for their helping others nor apology for being unjustifiably accused,best to just move forward and not look back,for dwelling on how we have been wronged can lead us to halt our advance in doing right for God,many are the sorrows and afflictions we come across and remember in life but the past can hold us back if we linger upon it,so to both you and preacher I would suggest you forget the trivial apology circumstance and simply continue to speak on God's word with each other as well as others concerning your views on his word,remember "anger but sin not" "Seek God's wisdom for he is the God of peace not confusion""love thy neighbor as yourself" "seek not to put a stumbling block in the way of thy neighbor".