Not By Works

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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After this post I'm going to try not to address this person. For the past couple weeks we have let this person and his heresy, and our responses to his heresy, dominate the thread. There is of course a place for correcting heretical doctrines, especially for the casual reader and baby Christian. But look at what his doctrine has had us focus on, SIN, rather than our beautiful, incredible Savior. For instance I've addressed Peter's sin of hypocrisy, instead of Peter saying things like "Lord, You know I love You".

Many of us have very successfully, using Scripture corrected his sinless perfection heresy that is so destructive, especially to a baby Christian that may stumble, [James tells us we ALL stumble in MANY ways] and read his cruel doctrine, and become incredibly distressed if they believe him.


So I think his post here clarifies perfectly his thought process of capitalizing "I AM" intentionally or not, fits his sinless perfection doctrine as he believes he is the same as our Lord.

Of course my brothers and sisters in Christ should do as they are led, but if you don't feed the beast, he will starve for lack of intention, and we can move on to glorify God, instead of talking about sin so much.
Be Blessed!
I have said the same myself as well.

But to be honest I can’t stop myself.

The reason being that I am looking out for those who are new babes in Christ and those who hear what he says then doubt their salvation.

I have two people PM very distressed and confused as a result of what he says.

That is why I cannot and will not back down.
I have told him that I will come against him and will not back down.

With regards to what he is saying I will come against it in order to protect and love those who genuinely love Jesus and want to be like him.

I encourage us all who have seen through this Hersey to stand firm and respond.
It doesn’t have to be to him but we can respond with the truth of scripture so others can see it.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
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it is written..."For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)
I was paid my "wages of sin" with death. (Rom 6:23)
Paul wrote..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; (death), and some men they follow after." (1 Tim 5:24)
Those not paid their just wage new will be paid for them later.
Romans 4:2-5 (GWT)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] If Abraham had God's approval because of something he did, he would have had a reason to brag. But he could not brag to God about it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and that faith was regarded by God to be his approval of Abraham.”
[SUP]4 [/SUP] When people work, their pay is not regarded as a gift but something they have earned.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] However, when people don't work but believe God, the one who approves ungodly people, their faith is regarded as God's approval.

Romans 4:2-5 (AMP)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For if Abraham was justified (established as just by acquittal from guilt) by good works [that he did, then] he has grounds for boasting. But not before God!
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed in (trusted in) God, and it was credited to his account as righteousness (right living and right standing with God).
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to a laborer, his wages are not counted as a favor or a gift, but as an obligation (something owed to him).
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to one who, not working [by the Law], trusts (believes fully) in Him Who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited to him as righteousness (the standing acceptable to God).
John 4:10 (CSBBible)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]

Jesus answered, "If you knew the gift of God, and who is saying to you, 'Give me a drink,' you would ask him, and he would give you living water."



It appears to me that YOU DO NOT KNOW THE GIFT OF GOD, and ONLY TRUST IN "You owe me, Salvation GOD, I EARNED IT." Somehow that is self righteous plan, doomed to FAIL. THEN WHAT?

You refuse to believe there is sin in your mortal, body; yet I caught you in two white lies, which are sin.

If your so-called sinless Body THEOLOGY were true then GOD wasted his time inspiring this to be written:


Romans 8:5-11 (NIV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.


You will not have a SINLESS BODY, until the Resurrection.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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Originally Posted by PJW


So I AM like you.
If I actually were, I would use the Advocate to get me out of the darkness/sin and into the light wherein is no sin.


After this post I'm going to try not to address this person. For the past couple weeks we have let this person and his heresy, and our responses to his heresy, dominate the thread. There is of course a place for correcting heretical doctrines, especially for the casual reader and baby Christian. But look at what his doctrine has had us focus on, SIN, rather than our beautiful, incredible Savior. For instance I've addressed Peter's sin of hypocrisy, instead of Peter saying things like "Lord, You know I love You".

Many of us have very successfully, using Scripture corrected his sinless perfection heresy that is so destructive, especially to a baby Christian that may stumble, [James tells us we ALL stumble in MANY ways] and read his cruel doctrine, and become incredibly distressed if they believe him.

So I think his post here clarifies perfectly his thought process of capitalizing "I AM" intentionally or not, fits his sinless perfection doctrine as he believes he is the same as our Lord.

Of course my brothers and sisters in Christ should do as they are led, but if you don't feed the beast, he will starve for lack of intention, and we can move on to glorify God, instead of talking about sin so much.
Be Blessed!
...........................................................................................................................

Hi again PennEd, your posts are always to the point and I appreciate that. We are all getting an education on what not to believe. Paraphrasing a statement PJW made a few day's ago; he does not believe that, "Original Sin" continues on after you have been born again. Hence why he can be sinless after his rebirth, as opposed to Christian Doctrine; His doctrine is heretical, which you and almost everyone here understands; Quote:"especially for the casual reader and baby Christian."

I too wish we can close the book on, "sinless perfection." and talk more about what will edify the Body of Christ. I'm sure Decon has had his fill of PJW's, "cafe vanilla twist", fake gospel. I think PJW, was caught up in Holiness Movement church which is why I posted this article. I apologize for its length but it may be time well spent I hope.

I never noticed PJW's capital, "I AM", before, maybe it is a telltale sign, a student is never above his teacher.Matthew 10:24, and I question his church affiliation; If we knew where he attended church we could easily find their "Doctrinal Statement" and tell me this, what church does not have a website for goodness sake, some churches at least will post a "Facebook page. Notice this there is not one mention of, "The church by Christ Jesus", not one mention of this so call church on the entire internet, not one, and personally I have never heard nor no anyone affiliated with a church by this name, such a mystery.

"Sinless Perfection" is a heretical doctrine and should be opposed by the Church; I agree with you PennEd, time to end the "Drama"

Quote: "The church I belong to is called "The Church by Christ Jesus (Eph3:21)" We don't have a web site though.

..............................................................................................................................................

Question: "What is the Holiness movement / church?"

Answer:
The Holiness movement/church is an influence within Christianity that teaches that a person can achieve perfect holiness, or sinless perfection, while on earth. This doctrine teaches “entire sanctification,” which usually comes via a spiritual experience that those in the Holiness movement refer to as the “second work of grace” or the “second blessing.” The Holiness movement is opposed by Reformed thinkers, who assert that original sin still exists in even the most faithful person.

The Holiness movement began in 1840 when a Methodist leader named Phoebe Palmer began to hold revivals and teach the necessity of holiness—and how to attain it. Groups and denominations historically associated with the Holiness movement include Wesleyans, Methodists, Nazarenes, and the Salvation Army. However, it should be noted that churches differ widely on doctrine, even within denominations.

The Holiness movement did have a profound effect on the history of the church, particularly in North America during the Third Great Awakening. Holiness adherents are typically interested in obedience to the Law and see their obedience as a way to gain closeness to God and greater spirituality.

While holiness is a biblical mandate and something every believer should strive for (Hebrews 12:14), those in the Holiness movement typically leave out an important detail: the fact that absolute holiness is impossible to attain. Perfection, sinlessness, and a holy life are not within man’s power to achieve. This idea is backed up by the Bible in numerous passages, most notably in the book of Romans. Paul’s argument in the first part of Romans is that man is fallen and unable to make himself follow the Law. In addition, it could be said that the whole history of Israel, with its repeated failures, is an object lesson about man’s inability to achieve holiness through the Law.

The Holiness movement is related to Pentecostalism in that it says that God helps the believer by giving him the “second blessing” of His Spirit. The “second blessing,” according to Holiness teaching, seals the believer in a sinless state. Unfortunately, a “sinless state” is not supported by either the Bible or human experience. While an emotional experience can make one feel that holiness is possible and that we never want to sin again, we still live in the flesh, and the flesh is still beset with weakness (Romans 7:14–19). Even the apostle Paul was unable to be completely sinless, and he admitted as much, saying that the old law of sin was still alive in his body, even though he served God in his mind and spirit (Romans 7:21–23).

Elsewhere, Paul mentions a “thorn” in his flesh, making him rely on God’s strength instead of his own weakness (2 Corinthians 12:7). Near the end of his life, when by all accounts he should have been the most holy, Paul called himself the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). Had Paul not received the second blessing? Or perhaps there is no second blessing resulting in sinlessness. The fact is that none of the apostles ever hinted at the possibility that man can achieve “entire sanctification,” and there is no mention in the Bible of a “second blessing” of the Spirit.

Christians do sin (1 John 1:5–10), but, hopefully, less and less as we mature in Christ (Philippians 3:12). The Holiness movement is wrong in its assumption that a believer can keep enough rules to attain sinless perfection in this world.
 
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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,423
13,359
113
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After this post I'm going to try not to address this person. For the past couple weeks we have let this person and his heresy, and our responses to his heresy, dominate the thread. There is of course a place for correcting heretical doctrines, especially for the casual reader and baby Christian. But look at what his doctrine has had us focus on, SIN, rather than our beautiful, incredible Savior. For instance I've addressed Peter's sin of hypocrisy, instead of Peter saying things like "Lord, You know I love You".

Many of us have very successfully, using Scripture corrected his sinless perfection heresy that is so destructive, especially to a baby Christian that may stumble, [James tells us we ALL stumble in MANY ways] and read his cruel doctrine, and become incredibly distressed if they believe him.

So I think his post here clarifies perfectly his thought process of capitalizing "I AM" intentionally or not, fits his sinless perfection doctrine as he believes he is the same as our Lord.

Of course my brothers and sisters in Christ should do as they are led, but if you don't feed the beast, he will starve for lack of intention, and we can move on to glorify God, instead of talking about sin so much.
Be Blessed!
You hit the nail on the head! ;) Good post!
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
If you don’t mind can I add the following.
Its not disagreeing with what you are sayin at all.

I just want to address ‘issues’ with regards to being his children.

So many believers have issues believing that they are children of God, that God loves them as much as he loves Jesus.
They seek approval and don’t understand they are approved.
They seek love and don’t know they are truly loved.
They work to be loved and approved and be accepted as a child.

They Dont know that they are Significant, Accepted and Secure in God.

My wife and I have a ministry in church. Walking alongside those who want to know more about Jesus but also those really struggling.

One thing we really focus on and say to females and males.

You are a precious daughter and you are precious son to the Father.

Whilst on earth to me it is gender specific becuase in this world everything we know or understand is gender related.

God sees through all of that and say “You are my precious children and I love you so so much”
Amen and God bless!
 
Z

Zi

Guest
Do they go into length on the rib and what role the make of that played in her creation?

I'll look it up.. thanks..

And yes.
I looked to see what I had been reading. It's about the possibility of Eve being created by cloning. And it's the RNA that was the messenger as the writer terms it to create xx.

Edenic Eve Versus Clonaid Eve: An Ethical Dimension of Human Cloning



You can google and get the book if interested.

Are you in nursing? I loved anatomy and physiology. But, that for me was many years ago. :)
 
Oct 30, 2017
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There are no 1st, 2nd and 3rd phases of salvation which is one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard........only a working for mind could come up with such foolishness....

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he SAVED US.

THERE IS ONE PHASE>...BELIEVE IN JESUS BY FAITH and acknowledge it = SAVED

SAVED then
SAVED NOW
SAVED for ALL eternity......

WOW!!!!!!!!
[h=1]Matthew 10:32New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven.
[/FONT]

[h=1]Matthew 12:31New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
[/FONT]

[h=1]Hebrews 6:4-6New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[a] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
[/FONT]

[h=1]John 6:66New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
[/FONT]

[h=1]John 6:70New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”
[/FONT]

[h=1]Matthew 22:11New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes.
[/FONT]

[h=1]John 13:10New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.”
[/FONT]

[h=1]Mark 4:19New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]19 but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful.
[/FONT]

[h=1]Hebrews 10:26-29New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] [/FONT]29 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]dcontroversal, I will say that you can never lose or have it taken from you your salvation, [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]sometimes I think you just want to hold an argument instead of taking the scriptures for what they mean. Are you someone who just has to win no matter the cost even if they are proven wrong? Don't be so ignorant of God's Word. Why would you ever think that you could never ever give up, give back, throw it away your salvation? Do you think God gives out golden tickets that once you acquire salvation it is set in stone and no matter how defiant, sinful, rebellious you become you never have to worry because your locked in to eternal life?

Scenerio
A small town High school student receives Jesus as Lord and Savior. Lives for Jesus and is out saving people, praying for people showing fruit in their lives. Goes off to college and sees a different life than the town they grew up in. Now in the city and around so many people of different religions, cultures, ethnicity's, etc.. With everyone telling them how dumb they are for being a Christian they soon begin to drift away from God. Before you know it they are going out with their new friends and begin to drink and do drugs. They may be introduced to LGBT lifestyles. One of their new friends just happens to be into with craft and invites them along. Soon they are intrigued by the spells and things of the demonic realm. They end up dropping out of school, addicted to drugs and alcohol prostituting themselves while being immersed in witch craft denouncing Jesus as their Lord and Savior and even cursing Him.
This goes on today in the cities in the US. You living in the US should know and be aware of this. So how can you possibly say that once you are saved you are always saved. Clearly the bible verses above speak against this. If this person dies from a drug over dose surely you don't believe they will be in heaven. Especially after cursing and denouncing God.
I am not going to argue on this point any longer because if you disagree with these scriptures and what I have had to say then you are one who refuses to listen to reason and just wants to prove their own point of belief without taking in the whole scripture.

[/FONT]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."[/FONT]

 
Dec 12, 2013
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Matthew 10:32New International Version (NIV)

32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven.

Matthew 12:31New International Version (NIV)

31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Hebrews 6:4-6New International Version (NIV)

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[a] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

John 6:66New International Version (NIV)

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

John 6:70New International Version (NIV)

70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

Matthew 22:11New International Version (NIV)

11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes.

John 13:10New International Version (NIV)

10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.”

Mark 4:19New International Version (NIV)

19 but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Hebrews 10:26-29New International Version (NIV)

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

dcontroversal, I will say that you can never lose or have it taken from you your salvation, sometimes I think you just want to hold an argument instead of taking the scriptures for what they mean. Are you someone who just has to win no matter the cost even if they are proven wrong? Don't be so ignorant of God's Word. Why would you ever think that you could never ever give up, give back, throw it away your salvation? Do you think God gives out golden tickets that once you acquire salvation it is set in stone and no matter how defiant, sinful, rebellious you become you never have to worry because your locked in to eternal life?

Scenerio
A small town High school student receives Jesus as Lord and Savior. Lives for Jesus and is out saving people, praying for people showing fruit in their lives. Goes off to college and sees a different life than the town they grew up in. Now in the city and around so many people of different religions, cultures, ethnicity's, etc.. With everyone telling them how dumb they are for being a Christian they soon begin to drift away from God. Before you know it they are going out with their new friends and begin to drink and do drugs. They may be introduced to LGBT lifestyles. One of their new friends just happens to be into with craft and invites them along. Soon they are intrigued by the spells and things of the demonic realm. They end up dropping out of school, addicted to drugs and alcohol prostituting themselves while being immersed in witch craft denouncing Jesus as their Lord and Savior and even cursing Him.
This goes on today in the cities in the US. You living in the US should know and be aware of this. So how can you possibly say that once you are saved you are always saved. Clearly the bible verses above speak against this. If this person dies from a drug over dose surely you don't believe they will be in heaven. Especially after cursing and denouncing God.
I am not going to argue on this point any longer because if you disagree with these scriptures and what I have had to say then you are one who refuses to listen to reason and just wants to prove their own point of belief without taking in the whole scripture.


Good....salvation cannot be lost, forfeit, given up, taken away from anyone....it is a one off event with eternal results.....none of the verses you cite teaches the loss of or forfeiture of salvation which is eternal.........regardless of your inability to see or understand it....
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”[/FONT]
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
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Originally Posted by kennethleehutch

"I am not going to argue on this point any longer because if you disagree with these scriptures and what I have had to say then you are one who refuses to listen to reason and just wants to prove their own point of belief without taking in the whole scripture
."


Take the log out of your eye first - did your mom or dad ever teach you how to be polite
.



Good....salvation cannot be lost, forfeit, given up, taken away from anyone....it is a one off event with eternal results.....none of the verses you cite teaches the loss of or forfeiture of salvation which is eternal.........regardless of your inability to see or understand it....
Hi Decon, what a critical and arrogant post you have received; He never introduced himself and instead of going through the front gate of the sheep pen, he jumps or' the side fence and starts arguing with the Alfa Sheep, what a foolish and disrespectful person you have stumbled upon, and he has only been here for 5 day's. And will he listen to your reasoning, never happen!

God bless!

Eternal security - is it biblical?

Answer: When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their eternal security. Jude 24 declares;

"To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy."Jude24

God's power is able to keep the believer from falling. It is up to Him, not us, to present us before His glorious presence. Our eternal security is a result of God keeping us, not us maintaining our own salvation.

The Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed;

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand" (John 10:28-29b).

Both Jesus and the Father have us firmly grasped in their hand. Who could possibly separate us from the grip of both the Father and the Son?

Ephesians 4:30 tells us that believers are "sealed for the day of redemption." If believers did not have eternal security, the sealing could not truly be unto the day of redemption, but only to the day of sinning, apostasy, or disbelief. John 3:15-16 tells us that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If a person were to be promised eternal life, but then have it taken away, it was never "eternal" to begin with. If eternal security is not true, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error.

The most powerful argument for eternal security is Romans 8:38-39;

"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Our eternal security is based on God's love for those whom He has redeemed. Our eternal security is purchased by Christ, promised by the Father, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
 
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TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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[video=youtube;tCcvQrvRlSM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCcvQrvRlSM[/video]
Traditional Bluegrass Gospel - "God Can"
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
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There are no 1st, 2nd and 3rd phases of salvation which is one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard........only a working for mind could come up with such foolishness....

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he SAVED US.

THERE IS ONE PHASE>...BELIEVE IN JESUS BY FAITH and acknowledge it = SAVED

SAVED then
SAVED NOW
SAVED for ALL eternity......

WOW!!!!!!!!
If salvation stops at the cross, what's the sense for our Lord Jesus to build His church(his body) and to send us His Spirit if no more works of salvation has to be done? What's the point of writing all those scriptures if it can be just "JUST HAVE FAITH AND THAT'S IT! YOU ARE ETERNALLY SAVED. Only those who are really not IN Christ would not know, reject and teach otherwise.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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If salvation stops at the cross, what's the sense for our Lord Jesus to build His church(his body) and to send us His Spirit if no more works of salvation has to be done? What's the point of writing all those scriptures if it can be just "JUST HAVE FAITH AND THAT'S IT! YOU ARE ETERNALLY SAVED. Only those who are really not IN Christ would not know, reject and teach otherwise.
Your logic proves you really do not know what you are talking about...nor have you read anything said by most in this thread and or you have willfully rejected what has been said or are just blind to the facts..........ONLY those who are not really saved would say the things you say and or espouse......open your eyes man.....salvation stands alone by faith based upon grace as a GIFT that cannot be earned, maintained or kept by any work of man....AND, had you taken the time to read or listen nd not go to seed and off on a tangent without the facts you can clearly see that ALL who have stated the belief found in BOLD have also said that we are saved UNTO works and any fruit or works are the RESULT OF THE SLVATION AND FAITH ONE ALREADY POSSESSES IN CHRIST as a LIVING SACRIFICE and it is JESUS who does the works through us.....

TAKE time to actually understand what we believe and state before you speak without the facts......
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 3:3:18-19, “And to whom did He swear that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? we see that they were unable to enter in because of unbelief."[/FONT]
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
416
77
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If salvation stops at the cross, what's the sense for our Lord Jesus to build His church(his body) and to send us His Spirit if no more works of salvation has to be done? What's the point of writing all those scriptures if it can be just "JUST HAVE FAITH AND THAT'S IT! YOU ARE ETERNALLY SAVED. Only those who are really not IN Christ would not know, reject and teach otherwise.
Salvation, does not stop at the cross, salvation is made possible by the cross.

He forgave us (all of us) of our sin at the crucifixion.

Salvation starts when we believe in what He accomplished on the cross and we accept His spirit as the free gift for which it was offered. To dwell and live with Him for now and eternity. Him in us and us in Him.

It is that simple. You gain everything at that moment. Scripture tells us everything for life and godliness.(2 Peter) We have been blessed with every spiritual blessing in Christ. (Eph 1:3)

Everything, for ever!!

There is no partiality in that. Not bits now, and the rest later. Everything now, and for eternity.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Salvation, does not stop at the cross, salvation is made possible by the cross.

He forgave us (all of us) of our sin at the crucifixion.

Salvation starts when we believe in what He accomplished on the cross and we accept His spirit as the free gift for which it was offered. To dwell and live with Him for now and eternity. Him in us and us in Him.

It is that simple. You gain everything at that moment. Scripture tells us everything for life and godliness.(2 Peter) We have been blessed with every spiritual blessing in Christ. (Eph 1:3)

Everything, for ever!!

There is no partiality in that. Not bits now, and the rest later. Everything now, and for eternity.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 4:1-8, “Therefore, since Messiah suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, so that he no longer lives the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but according to the desire of Yah. For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the desire of the nations, having walked in indecencies, lusts, drunkenness, orgies, wild parties, and abominable idolatries, in which they are surprised that you do not run with them in the same flood of loose behavior, blaspheming, who shall give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For this reason the Good News was also brought to those who are dead, so that, whereas they are judged according to men in the flesh, they might live according to Yah in the spirit. But the end of all has drawn near. Therefore be sober-minded, and be attentive in the prayers. And above all have fervent love for one another, because love covers a great number of sins.”[/FONT]
 
J

joefizz

Guest
If salvation stops at the cross, what's the sense for our Lord Jesus to build His church(his body) and to send us His Spirit if no more works of salvation has to be done? What's the point of writing all those scriptures if it can be just "JUST HAVE FAITH AND THAT'S IT! YOU ARE ETERNALLY SAVED. Only those who are really not IN Christ would not know, reject and teach otherwise.
The point is that you will do works "through" being saved,not to be saved,once you accept Jesus as saviour and ask for your soul to be saved,you are given the gift of salvation,now it is not as you keep guessing about,we still will do works through christ but not "for" our salvation but rather "through"our salvation,a fare few people act like that once you are saved you can turn back,this is absolutely false,after all why would Jesus give us a way to have salvation permanently if you can just get rid of it later that's just stupidity and our minds and heart getting in the way thinking that the gift of salvation is not binding and forever therefore in a sense saying that Jesus's sacrifice and all he did for us,is just something that we can throw away anytime we want which is ludicrous,since when has God/Jesus every made a promise that wasn't binding and lasting?
where is it written that you can be removed from God/Jesus's hand once in his hand?
Does God/Jesus give false hope of salvation or a true hope of salvation?
Are we more powerful than God/Jesus that we can go away from our master once saved?
You can't"leave" salvation you can only reject it or never seek it.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
464
83
...Only those who are really not IN Christ would not know, reject and teach otherwise.
...ONLY those who are not really saved would say the things you say and or espouse...
Just an observation, but it seems emotions are creeping in on both sides of the argument...